Rapid Physiological Change; Male Subject age 29

[LuMonty]

Thanks to @Ben. for encouraging me to post this..

I seem to be living proof of Dr. Peat's idea of adding energy to a system brings structure and order. Even now, as I type this post, I wonder if it will even sound believable as I can scarcely believe it myself. For those who have read my other posts, I was focused on androgen use and controlling histamine and prolactin. I wasn't finding much progress until I started using large doses of progesterone, and only then did thyroid work for me. We begin this tale on December 3 of 2021.

After my previous experiments, I had decided to try much higher thyroid supplementation since I had been using high dose progesterone. My wife uses Tyromix and Tyronene so if I had another failure, it wasn't a waste of money. I should specify that I use about 96mg Progesterone as Cortinon+ in two doses (6 drops each time), rectally. One midday and one at night. The progesterone cleared up my sleep apnea and controlled my histamine issues; I had been struggling so long with those issues that I didn't mind the anti-androgenic effects. In fact, I hadn't noticed any, though my androgens were always very low. Previously, I felt like I was "chasing the dragon" since I had questionable progress with supplemental androgens. I had been using Diamant on and off for a year but didn't find it easy to use long-term until I tried Gonadin (new formulation) which also arrived with the thyroid.

I had been trying high dose T3 for a week, approximately 100mcg over the course of the day. I still had adrenaline issues and found it tedious. This was especially the case because less T3 had no effect short- or long-term. From previous results I decided to try about 120mcg of both T3 and T4 over the course of the day. Within a week my mood had improved and I added Diamant back in since Gonadin is a MAO-B inhibitor. I no longer had clouded thinking or lethargy. Plus, I had sexual interest but not so hypersexual as was the case with bromocriptine. I would find at higher doses of Diamant with consistent Gonadin use I could come close to bromocriptine, but that included the closed-nose breathing and other negative effects. Still, having prolactin under control was great.

My sleep improved drastically. No longer did I need 9+ hours of sleep, and while 7 or less is sub-optimal it was no longer a sentence to drudgery and a downward spiral. For the first time since I was a child I was getting out of bed early with no negatives. Even when a medical emergency hit my family I was able to function despite bad sleep. This was around the 10 day mark. However, I noticed certain other details.

My hair was growing rapidly, which makes sense with the high thyroid. My skin was clearing up and my eyelashes once again were somewhat long (note that as a teen, I had girls asking me what my secret was; I had none, to their dismay). I was not surprised by these effects and felt incredibly relieved that I had finally gotten thyroid to work for me. My meals have been two potatoes with cheese and chicken (the other local meats cause me to bloat and retain water) and as much salt as I care for. This is what I ate to maintain myself, with no limit, and still do. Some days I ate 3 such meals, others 5, and always topped with the canning salt to satisfaction.

Day 10 also marked two other odd changes. I noticed a pressure across my shoulders and hips. Seeing as that I'm 29, I dismissed my gut feeling that they were like growing pains from years ago. At that time I also started stumbling and even falling. I struggled with low blood pressure before and this frightened me at first. Though my blood pressure was good and I no longer felt light-headed. It seemed like my shoes and gloves weren't fitting but I dismissed that as well. Surely it was stress from my dad being in the hospital, what with everything we know about "protocols."

By 14 days, the 17th, I had to satiate my curiosity. From before, I had measured across my collarbone on one side in order to shop for shirts more easily. Imagine my shock when I saw that each side was about .75 inches shorter. I was correct to be concerned. By the 14th day I had to change how I walked. Yet, to my chagrin, I had to go shopping where I got one of those measuring tapes for clothes sizing. Once again, I was shocked: both my lower hips (where I wore pants as a guy) and upper (bone pressed, as I have weight to lose still) both measure 10 inches more around. My hands shrank and I've lost a shoe size, from 9.5 to 8.5, though that's never been accurate due to my feet being wider than normal; this also resolved and they aren't wide anymore. I shrank maybe an inch or two. I still have moments of "phantom reach" where I would previously have been able to do a task but can no longer reach, etc. On the other hand I no longer feel like my muscles and bones are mismatched and so I no longer feel stretched out.

Walking as I had all my life had become painful. Over the next week I tried in vain to continue walking as I had, but my new physiology wouldn't allow that. Not allowing my hips to move freely would result in terrible back pain that would last all day. It got to the point where I'd remain at my desk whenever my wife was home, because the change was obvious. Eventually, we sat down and talked; I felt like I was going mad. We've sorted things out the best we could. Her reassurance helped focus me, and she could confirm the changes by her own observation. I still typically wear larger shirts to hide the obvious hip sway.

Anyways, my thinking as changed back to a time when I was younger, my late teenage years. I was a terrible flirt then and I broke some hearts. Now, a decade later, I feel young again but I also feel badly in this way. Being married complicates it, you see. Also, I'm supposed to be a good Christian boy; I tried to use that to put aside the fact that I used to flirt with anyone I fancied and considered it not to be a part of myself. That sentence probably doesn't make sense and it shows how I would compartmentalize myself. So it's nice to feel young again, but it's also troubling seeing as to my current situation. That said, when I allow myself to think freely and interact with life rather than observe, I feel whole. And so it goes, like a typical Millennial I find myself in a bit of a cycle. C'est la vie, n'est pas?

I continue to slim down, but over the past week more of that seems to be migrating to my butt. Wearing men's pants is becoming intolerable, as the fit is bad. I tried cutting back on the progesterone before this change took place, but I found it to be unbearable. I'm not so surprised because when I was younger, my butt was also large despite me being lean otherwise. I'm assuming that maintaining high amounts of progesterone has allowed for higher allopregnenolone and a general hormonal replacement effect.

This is not an exhaustive list of changes. Perhaps the most interesting is my voice. Luckily I can maintain a deep voice as I've trained it down for years, but sometimes my voice cracks. Many days I have a raspy voice after trying to maintain it. I fear I could not command respect as a substitute teacher that way. I also wonder if some of the throat problems I associated with sleep apnea, such as my throat spazzing out while I try to sleep, is due to forcing my voice lower. My peripheral vision shrank; my feet point forward when I stand rather than outwards; my forehead and brow ridge are reduced; some of my teeth shrank but still have their enamel and shape; and more. If I recall anything interesting I'll add it as a separate post.

Several years ago, a doctor wanted to test me for Klinefelter's but said it was impossible because I'm too smart. Looks like he his guess was right after all. I can't find anything else that would account for these changes. I assume that I had low thyroid for a long time (as did my mom, and her mom) and that my adrenals were compensating with androgens. I've even posited that my appearance was "fake" due to this and that my current state is more "real." That probably sounds silly if not for the fact that I no longer have an ominous feeling of non-recognition in the mirror, and I no longer experience depersonalization.

I was considering a TL;DR version but found the task impossible.

 

[PhilParma]

Interesting. How do you get the progesterone up your booty?

 

[LuMonty]

Interesting. How do you get the progesterone up your booty?

I just apply to a finger, insert, let it absorb. I make sure to keep things clean for applications.

 

[NommyWommy]

What is your thyroid dosing schedule? Are you taking tyromix orally?

 

[Mauritio]

First I thought this is going to be one of the peaty success stories, now I'm not sure anymore. Seems kind of mixed. 96mg is a lot. Rectally increases absorption, doesnt it ? So you might in fact get a much bigger those than with oral application.
My best guess is: you simply and reversibly, chemically castrated yourself to the point that you experience structural changes in your body.
Have you ever tried adding something very androgenic like androsterone or DHT into the mix ? This way ,you might be able to keep the benefits of high progesterone, but experience less anti-androgenic side effects.
From my experience progesterone combines well with androsterone.

 

[LuMonty]

First I thought this is going to be one of the peaty success stories, now I'm not sure anymore. Seems kind of mixed. 96mg is a lot. Rectally increases absorption, doesnt it ? So you might in fact get a much bigger those than with oral application.
My best guess is: you simply and reversibly, chemically castrated yourself to the point that you experience structural changes in your body.
Have you ever tried adding something very androgenic like androsterone or DHT into the mix ? This way ,you might be able to keep the benefits of high progesterone, but experience less anti-androgenic side effects.
From my experience progesterone combines well with androsterone.

Yes, I switched to rectal application for absorption but also convenience. Now that I've "slept on it" in terms of my post I wish I had been more specific. My testosterone was rarely high anyways and my testicles have always been hard. Multiple doctors over the years told me that wasn't normal and it indicated some level of failure. I recall one appointment where the doctor thought I had total failure because the tubes running from the testes were degenerated so badly. He thought I had some sort of trauma to them, but that wasn't the case.

What's most fascinating is that despite the high progesterone usage, for the first time in my life, they have the sponginess that they're supposed to have. Even weirder, but welcome, is I've had morning wood every single morning for 3 weeks now. I didn't even have it that consistently as a teen. I've had no issues that indicate castration, and we'll say my wife shares that viewpoint.

I spent a couple weeks trying to find evidence for what you're saying about structural change, as it was my first thought as well. I couldn't find any evidence that it could happen. Even after nights of forcing myself to read MtF blogs and subreddits I found no such stories. Even counting transgender cases with anti-androgens and estrogen injections, I couldn't find a single story of structural change, only fat redistribution or bone mass loss. No experiments, even with higher doses, showed anything except infertility issues in the men in the trials, and maybe facial hair stunting. Nothing I read indicated that such drastic bone changes could happen in such a short length of time. The closest thing was loss of height or shoe size but that took years of castration levels of testosterone for the people in question. It seems unlikely that I achieved comparable results so quickly and with a vastly weaker anti-androgen.

My observational experience matches what I'm saying. Outside of cosmetic surgery or hip pads hidden in clothing, the MtF people I've met were straight up and down. I once commented to a close friend of mine that you could use two of them to pick a lock. It seems unlikely that I've stumbled into a purely supplemental way to alter my physiology and that there's no underlying condition.

I have considered adding an androgen but they flatten my affect. Despite my otherwise glowing reviews, I don't miss using androsterone at all. Your idea is good though and if I run into any issues that's my plan.

What is your thyroid dosing schedule? Are you taking tyromix orally?

I take both orally. I take half in the morning, a quarter halfway through the day, and the last quarter 12 hours after the first. That's 10 drops Tyromix and 4 drops Tyronene in the morning, 5 and 2 drops midday, 5 and 2 at night. I have my espresso in the morning which means plenty of milk. The milk is very necessary to even out the effect. I typically eat more meals in the evening which helps even things out.

 

[Mauritio]

Yes, I switched to rectal application for absorption but also convenience. Now that I've "slept on it" in terms of my post I wish I had been more specific. My testosterone was rarely high anyways and my testicles have always been hard. Multiple doctors over the years told me that wasn't normal and it indicated some level of failure. I recall one appointment where the doctor thought I had total failure because the tubes running from the testes were degenerated so badly. He thought I had some sort of trauma to them, but that wasn't the case.

What's most fascinating is that despite the high progesterone usage, for the first time in my life, they have the sponginess that they're supposed to have. Even weirder, but welcome, is I've had morning wood every single morning for 3 weeks now. I didn't even have it that consistently as a teen. I've had no issues that indicate castration, and we'll say my wife shares that viewpoint.

I spent a couple weeks trying to find evidence for what you're saying about structural change, as it was my first thought as well. I couldn't find any evidence that it could happen. Even after nights of forcing myself to read MtF blogs and subreddits I found no such stories. Even counting transgender cases with anti-androgens and estrogen injections, I couldn't find a single story of structural change, only fat redistribution or bone mass loss. No experiments, even with higher doses, showed anything except infertility issues in the men in the trials, and maybe facial hair stunting. Nothing I read indicated that such drastic bone changes could happen in such a short length of time. The closest thing was loss of height or shoe size but that took years of castration levels of testosterone for the people in question. It seems unlikely that I achieved comparable results so quickly and with a vastly weaker anti-androgen.

My observational experience matches what I'm saying. Outside of cosmetic surgery or hip pads hidden in clothing, the MtF people I've met were straight up and down. I once commented to a close friend of mine that you could use two of them to pick a lock. It seems unlikely that I've stumbled into a purely supplemental way to alter my physiology and that there's no underlying condition.

I have considered adding an androgen but they flatten my affect. Despite my otherwise glowing reviews, I don't miss using androsterone at all. Your idea is good though and if I run into any issues that's my plan.

I take both orally. I take half in the morning, a quarter halfway through the day, and the last quarter 12 hours after the first. That's 10 drops Tyromix and 4 drops Tyronene in the morning, 5 and 2 drops midday, 5 and 2 at night. I have my espresso in the morning which means plenty of milk. The milk is very necessary to even out the effect. I typically eat more meals in the evening which helps even things out.

Then I can't really help you. You seem to have some underlying issues, maybe a prolactinoma?
...but keep experimenting and researching ,you will figure it out at some point .

 

[Nebula]

Yes, I switched to rectal application for absorption but also convenience. Now that I've "slept on it" in terms of my post I wish I had been more specific. My testosterone was rarely high anyways and my testicles have always been hard. Multiple doctors over the years told me that wasn't normal and it indicated some level of failure. I recall one appointment where the doctor thought I had total failure because the tubes running from the testes were degenerated so badly. He thought I had some sort of trauma to them, but that wasn't the case.

What's most fascinating is that despite the high progesterone usage, for the first time in my life, they have the sponginess that they're supposed to have. Even weirder, but welcome, is I've had morning wood every single morning for 3 weeks now. I didn't even have it that consistently as a teen. I've had no issues that indicate castration, and we'll say my wife shares that viewpoint.

I spent a couple weeks trying to find evidence for what you're saying about structural change, as it was my first thought as well. I couldn't find any evidence that it could happen. Even after nights of forcing myself to read MtF blogs and subreddits I found no such stories. Even counting transgender cases with anti-androgens and estrogen injections, I couldn't find a single story of structural change, only fat redistribution or bone mass loss. No experiments, even with higher doses, showed anything except infertility issues in the men in the trials, and maybe facial hair stunting. Nothing I read indicated that such drastic bone changes could happen in such a short length of time. The closest thing was loss of height or shoe size but that took years of castration levels of testosterone for the people in question. It seems unlikely that I achieved comparable results so quickly and with a vastly weaker anti-androgen.

My observational experience matches what I'm saying. Outside of cosmetic surgery or hip pads hidden in clothing, the MtF people I've met were straight up and down. I once commented to a close friend of mine that you could use two of them to pick a lock. It seems unlikely that I've stumbled into a purely supplemental way to alter my physiology and that there's no underlying condition.

I have considered adding an androgen but they flatten my affect. Despite my otherwise glowing reviews, I don't miss using androsterone at all. Your idea is good though and if I run into any issues that's my plan.

I take both orally. I take half in the morning, a quarter halfway through the day, and the last quarter 12 hours after the first. That's 10 drops Tyromix and 4 drops Tyronene in the morning, 5 and 2 drops midday, 5 and 2 at night. I have my espresso in the morning which means plenty of milk. The milk is very necessary to even out the effect. I typically eat more meals in the evening which helps even things out.

Could it be you have just squelched chronic inflammation that was puffing up various parts of your body? I notice dramatic changes to the size of my nose and width of my feet and ankles when I do something to block inflammation.

 

[LuMonty]

Then I can't really help you. You seem to have some underlying issues, maybe a prolactinoma?
...but keep experimenting and researching ,you will figure it out at some point .

I do have a micro-prolactinoma hence my torrid affair with Diamant. And I do appreciate that you're trying to help. I should have put something in my opening post that this is mainly for recording events and sharing them and not so much treatment as I'm fairly settled on that. The issue appears to be chromosomal but I had two issues in the past. First, doctors refused to ask for the test. Second, when I did have a doctor have the test ordered it was too expensive for me. It ended up being a blessing though. Because I had mysterious issues (and some doctors saying nothing was wrong) it eventually led me to a post here by Haidut and then I started reading Peat's work. It's hard to make clear here and I don't blame you or anyone else. I have several developmental markers that lined up with the condition I'm talking about. As I was reading about it, it was a moment of epiphany and my life suddenly made sense.

Could it be you have just squelched chronic inflammation that was puffing up various parts of your body? I notice dramatic changes to the size of my nose and width of my feet and ankles when I do something to block inflammation.

That's a good question. The bone measurements I have is the clincher for me. For example, I could always find the bones in my feet to measure length or width so I have before and after. You couldn't know that though because I didn't mention it. That said, I am much less inflamed.

 

[Peatness]

Progesterone can have a profound effect on connective tissues. Are you hypermobile? It does in women but I don't know if this will apply to men too

Medical: HORMONAL ASPECTS OF HYPERMOBILITY

Dr. Bird, a leading expert on hypermobility has written about the ‘Hormonal Aspects of Hypermobility.” As always, we will only be quoting excerpts from this article, even though it is …

edsalert.wordpress.com

 

[LuMonty]

Progesterone can have a profound effect on connective tissues. Are you hypermobile? It does in women but I don't know if this will apply to men too

Medical: HORMONAL ASPECTS OF HYPERMOBILITY

Dr. Bird, a leading expert on hypermobility has written about the ‘Hormonal Aspects of Hypermobility.” As always, we will only be quoting excerpts from this article, even though it is …

edsalert.wordpress.com

I forgot to mention that aspect and I'm so glad you asked. I was hyper mobile before and my right shoulder would constantly become partially dislocated. It was very easy to hyperextend my elbows and knees. And yet my overall flexibility was terrible and it was easy for me to injure myself. I described it to those close to me as feeling "rusty." Now I have incredible flexibility but I no longer have loose joints. A month ago, if I sat down with the bottoms of my feet together and knees pointed outwards, I could only lean forward a bit. Now I can lean forward far enough to touch my feet with my face. Because my stability is drastically improved my strength output is greatly increased. Before, my knees would wobble just from light walking and I suffered many sprains. Trying to do squats in the weight room was impossible for me.

The list of symptoms in the PDF you attached are things I suffered from for years. My guess is the resolution is from regulation of salt and thus water. Not having fluid in the joint makes sense.

 

[HighT]

Thyroid and Progesteron supps shrank your feet and shoulders and grew your hips? Right?

 

[LuMonty]

Thyroid and Progesteron supps shrank your feet and shoulders and grew your hips? Right?

My assumption is an underlying chromosomal disorder was revealed in that way. Due to lazy and inept "professionals" it wasn't diagnosed when I was young. More generally, the rate of change was what was most interesting, though frightening, to me.

 

[HighT]

My assumption is an underlying chromosomal disorder was revealed in that way. Due to lazy and inept "professionals" it wasn't diagnosed when I was young. More generally, the rate of change was what was most interesting, though frightening, to me.

I see, so what was the reason to start this supplements and have you stopped them yet after these effects? Is there a reversal, or are you going to take some androgenic stuff now?

 

[LuMonty]

I see, so what was the reason to start this supplements and have you stopped them yet after these effects? Is there a reversal, or are you going to take some androgenic stuff now?

My thyroid was always low. IIRC my best TSH was 3.1. It would be difficult to go back to feeling depressed etc. The progesterone fixes my sleep. I've tried lower amounts and it always results in a terrible week where I'm chasing the issue restabilizing the levels and catching up on sleep. I haven't decided if I'm going to add anything androgenic. There doesn't seem to be a reason right now but I have my options if I change my mind.

 

[HighT]

That's why I started asking cause I had the impression you are not much bothered with these effects. So you are ok to feminise yourself just to sleep good and not being depressed. Have you tried literally everything else in order to settle with this trade off? I'm not an expert but TSH 3.1 doesn't seem the end of the world. Mine was 3.3 and I'm fine.

 

[InChristAlone]

Progesterone is also produced by men it isn't strictly feminine. Estrogen is what is way higher in women than men.

 

[LuMonty]

That's why I started asking cause I had the impression you are not much bothered with these effects. So you are ok to feminise yourself just to sleep good and not being depressed. Have you tried literally everything else in order to settle with this trade off? I'm not an expert but TSH 3.1 doesn't seem the end of the world. Mine was 3.3 and I'm fine.

Perhaps a better measure of health would be my body temperatures over the last few years which was only about 97F. Higher temps coincided with exposure to allergens so some days I'd read at 98F. Never higher. I don't want to sound rude, seeing as to the mode of communication here. "Just" to have resolved life-long issues is worth it to me. I'm having a hard time writing this because I don't want to make this sound personal. If I understand your meaning, you would consider it not to be worth it. As for "feminizing" it's not really the case. I look like I did when I was 16 so I just look young. I don't blame you for asking though. I've been trying thyroid and androgens for a few years now. No real progress and as I've mentioned in this thread I had little emotion on androsterone. I hate the feeling. Strangely, despite muscle hardness my strength was poor and I couldn't make any explosive movements. That's not the case with progesterone.

Progesterone is also produced by men it isn't strictly feminine. Estrogen is what is way higher in women than men.

Indeed, that's what encouraged me to try progesterone in the first place. In fact, my wife was very worried about her or I using it so I tried it before she did. It was worth it: she's much more calm and sleeps better after trying it. Makes dealing with all this worth it. She uses Progest-E though, I use the Cortinon+.

 

[Nebula]

I use the Cortinon+.

So you should be getting a good ratio of DHEA then. That should in theory be a complement to a high dose of progesterone and supply precursors for androgens. Haidut claims a combo of prog/dhea has helped some bodybuilders he knows to keep their testosterone in the upper normal range without any exogenous T, so it may actually increase your androgens overtime too. Which ratio are you using 3:1 or 8:1?

 

[LuMonty]

So you should be getting a good ratio of DHEA then. That should in theory be a complement to a high dose of progesterone and supply precursors for androgens. Haidut claims a combo of prog/dhea has helped some bodybuilders he knows to keep their testosterone in the upper normal range without any exogenous T, so it may actually increase your androgens overtime too. Which ratio are you using 3:1 or 8:1?

That's my hope! My highest T score was only 350ish so I figured I'd try it. I use the 8:1.