Anxiety, PTSD, Mental Health: General Discussion

[Ashoka]

Every goal has the potential to miss or overuse oneself. Alexander called it endgaining.

Damn. That sounds like some deep knowledge. I think all those approaches are worthwhile. They all grant us a different perspective on our agency towards getting better or just living healthily and happily in general. The glaring problem with nutritional obsession is it provides bizarre limits to what is possible. It takes us away from the time we could spend on other things and often puts us into a hypervigilant mode, observing our bodies as if they are a separate entity. The very act of observation is obscuring.

Compare this with the sentiment expressed here by Bruno, born in 1548:

"Unless you make yourself equal to God, you cannot understand God, for the like is not intelligible save to the like...Make yourself grow to a greatness beyond measure...Believe that nothing is impossible for you, think yourself immortal and capable of understanding all, all arts, all sciences, the nature of every living being. Mount higher than the highest height; descend lower than the lowest depth...embrace in your thought all things at once, times, place, substances, qualities, quantities..."

--Giordano Bruno, Corpus Hermeticum, treatise 12

 

[Jennifer]

Compare this with the sentiment expressed here by Bruno, born in 1548:

"Unless you make yourself equal to God, you cannot understand God, for the like is not intelligible save to the like...Make yourself grow to a greatness beyond measure...Believe that nothing is impossible for you, think yourself immortal and capable of understanding all, all arts, all sciences, the nature of every living being. Mount higher than the highest height; descend lower than the lowest depth...embrace in your thought all things at once, times, place, substances, qualities, quantities..."

--Giordano Bruno, Corpus Hermeticum, treatise 12

That's beautiful and is aligned with what I believe. Thanks for sharing this quote, Ashoka! :)

 

[Jennifer]

So I am grateful for the struggle, sometimes you have to learn through trauma what it is to be alive. What it is to truly be YOU. Thanks @Simonsays for the conversation I enjoy talking about this stuff. Instead of someone just telling me to take thyroid and evrything will fix itself nope was on thyroid when it all started! Haha

I completely agree with everything you said here, Janelle.

Most people look at me puzzled when I say getting hurt was the best thing that ever happened for me. And no amount of thyroid or other supplement was going to prevent what I know needed to happen. It forced me to deal with the baggage from my past, which is much like Mary Poppins' bag where it seems unassuming until you start unloading it. It often felt like mine was if Mary Poppins had been a hoarder. lol

Anyhow, not setting boundaries and letting your children walk all over you seems similar to how I would let others walk all over me or treat me as their punching bag. I had this faulty belief that my value or "worth" was based on what I could do for others and that me, as I am, was not enough to be worthy of other people's love. And I also feared (and still do a little) that if I displeased someone, that they would stop loving and/or liking me. It was so bad that I would let others attack me and not say or do anything because I didn't want to make them feel bad for hurting me. A bit messed up in my thinking, but...

I've contemplated if my letting others walk all over me was due to childhood faulty wiring or a lack of energy due to inherited glandular/tissue weaknesses and I'm still not sure, but what I do know is it takes more energy to constantly do for others while disregarding my own needs. Regardless of which one came first, it became a self-perpetuating cycle and so I've been focusing on mind, body and spirit to finally overcome this. Before I was too focused on one being more important than the other, not realizing that they all matter. I still think spirit has the final say, but it's not alone in all of this.

Something I've learned from all of this is setting healthy boundaries actually teaches others/kids that it's okay for them to also set healthy boundaries. Just like being ourselves allows others in our presence to feel safe in being themselves, too. We tend to influence each other often without even realizing it so I think we aren't the only ones who benefit when we take care of ourselves, you know?

As for the heart palpitations coming on with aspirin use or a change in position (sitting/lying or standing), do you guys think that it may have something to do with a sudden change in your blood pressure due to weak adrenal glands? How are your blood pressures? Your systolic (top) number will tell you the strength of your adrenals and diastolic, your kidneys. Taking your blood pressure on both arms will tell you how both sides are doing. Anyhow, just a thought...

 

[jaguar43]

Cheers guys, I appreciate your thoughts.

I have PFS so nothing is easy to pinpoint. Recently I was doing better than ever, but palpitations and panic are a recurring problem and events like these just set one back. And I simply can't disentangle what is doing what in my body.

I get palpitations from overeating sometimes, or lying down after drinking, which is what seems to be vestige of a hiatal hernia. This was different in that it wasn't responding to any attempts to calm down. It was slowly ascending in terms of intensity.

Recently I've had lots of panic in my life though. Earlier in this month I convinced myself I had food poisoning when I didn't. Then I nearly suffocated myself cooking one night by inhaling too much airborne smoke from cooking oil. Now this incident. Separating the fact from fiction has ceased being a practical goal. I'm unsure whether I have a full blown anxiety disorder that can produce these symptoms ex nihilo or whether I respond to actual external conditions. Perhaps what the aspirin did was simply trigger the physical analogue for a panic attack. I have no clue.

Aspirin normally does seem to help me. Strangely enough, I feel it even helps digestion sometimes. But I can't imagine myself taking it after that experience for a while.

What is PFS ?

 

[InChristAlone]

I completely agree with everything you said here, Janelle.

Most people look at me puzzled when I say getting hurt was the best thing that ever happened for me. And no amount of thyroid or other supplement was going to prevent what I know needed to happen. It forced me to deal with the baggage from my past, which is much like Mary Poppins' bag where it seems unassuming until you start unloading it. It often felt like mine was if Mary Poppins had been a hoarder. lol

Anyhow, not setting boundaries and letting your children walk all over you seems similar to how I would let others walk all over me or treat me as their punching bag. I had this faulty belief that my value or "worth" was based on what I could do for others and that me, as I am, was not enough to be worthy of other people's love. And I also feared (and still do a little) that if I displeased someone, that they would stop loving and/or liking me. It was so bad that I would let others attack me and not say or do anything because I didn't want to make them feel bad for hurting me. A bit messed up in my thinking, but...

I've contemplated if my letting others walk all over me was due to childhood faulty wiring or a lack of energy due to inherited glandular/tissue weaknesses and I'm still not sure, but what I do know is it takes more energy to constantly do for others while disregarding my own needs. Regardless of which one came first, it became a self-perpetuating cycle and so I've been focusing on mind, body and spirit to finally overcome this. Before I was too focused on one being more important than the other, not realizing that they all matter. I still think spirit has the final say, but it's not alone in all of this.

Something I've learned from all of this is setting healthy boundaries actually teaches others/kids that it's okay for them to also set healthy boundaries. Just like being ourselves allows others in our presence to feel safe in being themselves, too. We tend to influence each other often without even realizing it so I think we aren't the only ones who benefit when we take care of ourselves, you know?

As for the heart palpitations coming on with aspirin use or a change in position (sitting/lying or standing), do you guys think that it may have something to do with a sudden change in your blood pressure due to weak adrenal glands? How are your blood pressures? Your systolic (top) number will tell you the strength of your adrenals and diastolic, your kidneys. Taking your blood pressure on both arms will tell you how both sides are doing. Anyhow, just a thought...

I definitely relate to all of that, and totally agree that setting boundaries for kids will help them learn to set boundaries themselves. Sadly this was something I struggled with my entire life.
So happy for you that the struggles made you see all that you are, how worthy of love you are. I wish that for everyone! I also believe spirit and body can't be separated what's going in the mind will effect the body.

 

[Ashoka]

What is PFS ?

Post-Finasteride Syndrome. It's referred to pretty often on these forums because multiple people here have been affected by that drug. Danny Roddy's work has helped connect people suffering from it to Peat's work.

 

[jaguar43]

Post-Finasteride Syndrome. It's referred to pretty often on these forums because multiple people here have been affected by that drug. Danny Roddy's work has helped connect people suffering from it to Peat's work.

Have you notice the palpitations before taking Finasteride ? Or was it something that started after the Finasteride ?

 

[Ashoka]

Have you notice the palpitations before taking Finasteride ? Or was it something that started after the Finasteride ?

I did have them before under very stressful circumstances or in moments when I kept my posture particularly bad. For instance, I would probably spend hours sitting on the floor with my laptop with only a quilt under me. This was years ago. I would randomly get palpitations then, and it makes sense to me that this was somehow posture-related now, though at the time I had no idea.

Palpitations got worse with finasteride, but it could be related to the stress such things put you through in general.

I think what happened the other day was related both to the aspirin and hiatal hernia and associated LES dysfunction. It wasn't just the aspirin. That's my guess.

 

[InChristAlone]

That quote about chinese medicine and thyroid disease, i think is bang on. They definitely know, dont they. Where does this leave Ray Peat though?? My hypothyroidism i believe was definitely emotionally stress induced , as was my mothers i think in retrospect (she had hers radioactively zapped back in the 60s) . I suppose this is where the belief that hypothyroidism runs in families. But so does dysfunction! No amount of thyroid hormone/diet changes etc will solve it, if the core issues arent dealt with.

I was thinking about this tonight as I had a flare of anxiety that I wanted to blame on what I ate at my in-laws house, but quite honestly it wasn't the food because i can generally eat anything and not get anxious like that right away when I'm doing well. Then I re read this thread and realized it was the interactions that was making me anxious. I don't always get anxious around my family though, I think I am still just very easily triggered by any mental stress particularly when I don't have much left to give as far as energy. I hate this because it makes me feel like I have CFS. I don't want to be socially isolated I want to have a voice and connection with people. But to be quite honest my cup is never filled around them. It's usually drained. So I need to stop focusing on the food or a certain hormone and just focus on healing me. Loving myself. This seems harder than just blaming something wrong in my body.

Also I don't know if anyone else has found this but I seem to digest food much better in the comfort of my own home. Another downer as far as social life.

 

[Ashoka]

So I need to stop focusing on the food or a certain hormone and just focus on healing me. Loving myself. This seems harder than just blaming something wrong in my body.

You may find at some point that it is easier to love yourself than to focus on blaming your body.

Loving yourself can be focusing on what you want, creating a refuge for yourself. It could be art. Perhaps a goal. I think you need a utopian vision to be able to exist in the present moment happily, when circumstances are tight. One has to believe in the possibility of potentially reaching that vision.

What Peat does is give us one more step up in our ability to imagine a brighter future. What one shouldn't do is use his nutritional advice at the sake of forsaking another emancipatory point of view.

 

[whit]

Great posts all.
I remember a thread started by Haidut about aspirin causing issues
Negative effects of aspirin may be due to glycine depletion
Alot of these issues stem from an issue with the liver not having what it needs.
There seems to be a bottle neck effect there.
I believe healing can sometimes come when we take the focus off ourselves so much and help others where we can.
That's part of why the forum can be of help.

 

[Simonsays]

I was thinking about this tonight as I had a flare of anxiety that I wanted to blame on what I ate at my in-laws house, but quite honestly it wasn't the food because i can generally eat anything and not get anxious like that right away when I'm doing well. Then I re read this thread and realized it was the interactions that was making me anxious. I don't always get anxious around my family though, I think I am still just very easily triggered by any mental stress particularly when I don't have much left to give as far as energy

I can totally relate. My sister has BPD i believe and our relationship has totally broken down. I was having a terrible time with her a few years back when my father was ill and a whole lot of other things since. I was seeing a counsellor at the time and she said something like "why do you bother having contact with her, if she causes you so much pain and anguish" It was a like a lightbulb moment. My current therapist says " why do you continue to see your father" (after i had been discussing him). The reason of course is that they are your family regardless, and without them im very alone, they are a part of me. I cant cut them out, thats just inconceivable, despite everything.

My sister only invited me at Xmas and Easter anyway and for my own selfish reasons when i was single and alone i wanted to be invited, even when a lot of it could be stressful and "treading on eggshells"with her in a filthy mood.

I just wanted to run away, my anxiety going through the roof. The atmosphere! It wasnt the food though it was always excellent!!

I get this with my father too, hes tried guilting me into taking him on holiday, but i just dont want to and i wont. I wont enjoy it and il will be really stressed. So im putting myself first. But im feeling guily about not being a good son, but was he a good father???

 

[InChristAlone]

I can totally relate. My sister has BPD i believe and our relationship has totally broken down. I was having a terrible time with her a few years back when my father was ill and a whole lot of other things since. I was seeing a counsellor at the time and she said something like "why do you bother having contact with her, if she causes you so much pain and anguish" It was a like a lightbulb moment. My current therapist says " why do you continue to see your father" (after i had been discussing him). The reason of course is that they are your family regardless, and without them im very alone, they are a part of me. I cant cut them out, thats just inconceivable, despite everything.

My sister only invited me at Xmas and Easter anyway and for my own selfish reasons when i was single and alone i wanted to be invited, even when a lot of it could be stressful and "treading on eggshells"with her in a filthy mood.

I just wanted to run away, my anxiety going through the roof. The atmosphere! It wasnt the food though it was always excellent!!

I get this with my father too, hes tried guilting me into taking him on holiday, but i just dont want to and i wont. I wont enjoy it and il will be really stressed. So im putting myself first. But im feeling guily about not being a good son, but was he a good father???

Yeah I can relate to feeling anxiety around certain people. Almost as if you can't just be yourself. And of course as we've been talking about not being yourself means a disconnect in communication and thyroid disease. I don't know how to get out of this other than just speaking up for yourself. I have a really hard time with this. It is so important to not be treated like a door mat. One of my inspirations lately is Anita Moorjani. She had a near death experience during a coma from cancer and came back and healed completely within weeks because she understood what love really meant. It's really inspiring to me. She says our only purpose in life is to be OURSELVES. "Love yourself like your life depends on it, because it does."

You may find at some point that it is easier to love yourself than to focus on blaming your body.

Loving yourself can be focusing on what you want, creating a refuge for yourself. It could be art. Perhaps a goal. I think you need a utopian vision to be able to exist in the present moment happily, when circumstances are tight. One has to believe in the possibility of potentially reaching that vision.

What Peat does is give us one more step up in our ability to imagine a brighter future. What one shouldn't do is use his nutritional advice at the sake of forsaking another emancipatory point of view.

Thats a good idea, I need a vision of who I could become and then focus on that.. instead of all the problems I find in my body.

 

[Ashoka]

So, perhaps at least to partially explain what happened the other day, I believe I have a panic disorder. So whatever interaction with aspirin, it was complex.

In spite of what I do, or whatever usual strategies I do to stave off panic, things are no longer working. I woke up today cold and my body just felt like it was in a hyperaroused state. Flu-like symptoms, a kind of unsettled feeling in the bones, elevated heart rate, exhaustion, and both a revulsion and feeling of need for food, helpless mood. Last night before bed, I had feelings of intense adrenaline rushes with all those symptoms, even though I was doing things that dependably calm me down. It settled and I managed to sleep.

This feels more like a disease than normal anxiety, and I'm spending my days running from and avoiding this panic. I think cypro or mirtazapine would be a good place to start, and probably counseling, which I don't think would be necessary if I just knew someone who was a good listener. Living with my parents is unhelpful; they're nervous energy and just chock full of unhelpful attitudes.

It's also very well known that anxiety is connected to digestion, and I still get strange spasms in the area around the diaphragm (at least I think it's there). It still seems like the hiatal hernia or some shifting of the viscera in the body could be playing a big, though not exclusive role.

Thoughts anyone? Illuminations? I found this link explained panic disorder well: Panic Disorder(s): A Comprehensive Overview

 

[InChristAlone]

So, perhaps at least to partially explain what happened the other day, I believe I have a panic disorder. So whatever interaction with aspirin, it was complex.

In spite of what I do, or whatever usual strategies I do to stave off panic, things are no longer working. I woke up today cold and my body just felt like it was in a hyperaroused state. Flu-like symptoms, a kind of unsettled feeling in the bones, elevated heart rate, exhaustion, and both a revulsion and feeling of need for food, helpless mood. Last night before bed, I had feelings of intense adrenaline rushes with all those symptoms, even though I was doing things that dependably calm me down. It settled and I managed to sleep.

This feels more like a disease than normal anxiety, and I'm spending my days running from and avoiding this panic. I think cypro or mirtazapine would be a good place to start, and probably counseling, which I don't think would be necessary if I just knew someone who was a good listener. Living with my parents is unhelpful; they're nervous energy and just chock full of unhelpful attitudes.

It's also very well known that anxiety is connected to digestion, and I still get strange spasms in the area around the diaphragm (at least I think it's there). It still seems like the hiatal hernia or some shifting of the viscera in the body could be playing a big, though not exclusive role.

Thoughts anyone? Illuminations? I found this link explained panic disorder well: Panic Disorder(s): A Comprehensive Overview

Thanks so much for that link! That is one of the most comprehensive articles I've read thus far on it. Many things were listed there that I've never seen listed on panic disorder websites and that I have come across in my research.

Which ones have you looked into so far? For me I think estrogen dominance was one reason. Low blood sugar is another. Also sometimes if my heart is racing that can trigger hyperventilation and panic. Also chemicals, I had a panic attack after eating almost an entire bag of dried of mangoes which had sulfur dioxide.

Cyproheptadine was pretty key for me in getting stress reactions down that make panicking less likely.

Also when you are having an attack do you let your body tremble? Do you give in to it or fight it? I think its good to just give in to it and let it pass. While also slowing down breathing and being mindful.

 

[InChristAlone]

I also have to cut back in caffeine when I'm in a cycle of anxiety. For me caffeine is a definite trigger. Aspirin can be as well because anything that stimualtes the metabolism can burn through glucose stores and set off adrenaline.

 

[Ashoka]

Thanks so much for that link! That is one of the most comprehensive articles I've read thus far on it. Many things were listed there that I've never seen listed on panic disorder websites and that I have come across in my research.

Which ones have you looked into so far? For me I think estrogen dominance was one reason. Low blood sugar is another. Also sometimes if my heart is racing that can trigger hyperventilation and panic. Also chemicals, I had a panic attack after eating almost an entire bag of dried of mangoes which had sulfur dioxide.

Cyproheptadine was pretty key for me in getting stress reactions down that make panicking less likely.

Also when you are having an attack do you let your body tremble? Do you give in to it or fight it? I think its good to just give in to it and let it pass. While also slowing down breathing and being mindful.

No problem Janelle, I'm happy you found it useful :). I was surprised how sharp that essay is too.

Hormonal illness --> PTSD --> Hiatal Hernia --> Panic attacks --> Panic Disorder. That's my theory why this is happening. But yeah hyperventilating because I can't breathe properly has caused them in the past I think.

I can't tell whether I give in or not. Before they happen, I try to say, "that's the lizard man talking!" I can feel my perspective shift in a negative direction, but I'm basically hopeless at that point. I suppose I just say "This is a panic attack and it will pass" but as we know it still sucks and it leaves you drained for hours anyway. It doesn't make me run out of my room thinking I'm dying or something anymore, although I kinda do feel that way anyway.

Yesterday I was talking with a friend who's living abroad now. Some years ago her brother died, so she was institutionalized for a short while, began hallucinating, felt unsafe, you name it. Basically she had a panic disorder among other things. After being around supportive people and environments, delving into yoga and tea culture, and being where she feels comfortable, it's obvious to me she's feeling better than she has in her life. Her experience up to this point has had many challenges, but I know she takes time every day, around plenty of supportive people, to feel at ease with herself and towards her surroundings. That's what she wanted and she claims that was very intuitive for her. She has a very mystical, poetic outlook on life, and it helps her although it involves a rejection of much of the modern world. Whatever I think of that, it has helped her through a lot emotionally. I know her well and have seen this transformation occur. I thought I'd share that as an example of success, of what's possible. I also want to add that while she's dedicated, I don't believe she's exceptional.

 

[Simonsays]

Living with my parents is unhelpful; they're nervous energy and just chock full of unhelpful attitudes.

= stress.

Do you get angry with them? Can you express your anger? Could they tolerate it? Is it difficult? Do you feel trapped in your current situation?

I dont wish to bang on about this, but this could be a contributor. I dont know your personal situation and it might not be easy to resolve. But repressed anger from a psychological angle can lead to panic attacks. What is your personality like, be honest with yourself , can you be free with your emotions. If the answer is yes, then it might be physiological cause.

http://waleoladipo.com/repressed-negative-emotions-the-greatest-breeder-of-anxiety-disorders/

Good luck ( Im not recommending this person btw in the above, its just a good description)

 

[Ukall]

Do you get angry with them? Can you express your anger? Could they tolerate it? Is it difficult? Do you feel trapped in your current situation?
I dont wish to bang on about this, but this could be a contributor.

I like the things you are pointing to. Actually, the term 'bang' is appropriate, because I've already 'banged' a lot about this type of issues and still can't reduce the stress response with my father (for instance). He is clearly a stressor to me. Hearing him talking or should I say criticizing me, my heart immediately starts beating faster.
I can realize this happen, but still, when I answer him, I immediately lose my mind and I am extremely aggressive with my words.
Of course, when I was younger, this could lead to him beating me up while today it usually triggers a never ending discussion with both of us screaming out loud.

When I was being accompanied by a counselor (psychologist), she/we tried to solve this situation: I tried to talk with him several times; I tried to write him a letter expressing my feelings; etc etc. Yet, today, I still have a stress response when I hear him talking (criticizing) me. Now it's even worse, because since I am trying to follow a different diet, it's a constant criticism party every time.

So, I don't know... I can't say that I never expressed myself, but that he accepted it...? Not at all. Never.

An interesting thing is that I have an older brother. I was (and I still am) the one that always answer him when I don't agree with him, while he just hears and kind submits to what he says. Or simply he just tries to avoid confusions with him.
Still, he clearly has some issues also when he starts talking with him (even if it is about soccer). I notice him having a stress response too. However he didn't suffer/doesn't suffer from any depression, OCD, PTSD, etc, like I seem to suffer.

Do you get angry with them? Can you express your anger? Could they tolerate it? Is it difficult? Do you feel trapped in your current situation?

Could you explain a little further what do you mean by these questions?

P.S.: I'm sorry for invanding your thread @Ashoka , but I really wanted to write about this.

 

[Ashoka]

No worries, it's definitely relevant and that's the important thing. It doesn't just have to be about me