Coconut Oil And Anxiety/Panic Attacks

[bohogirl]

According to Peat, you can get significant benefit from just a small amount of coconut oil - eg 1tsp. No need to have more than that if it bothers you in any way. (Or any at all if even a little bothers you.)
As milk_lover said, refined is less likely to give allergic reaction.

When blood sugar drops, stress hormones usually increase to get the fuel supply back online (good survival mechanism).
Night-time mouth-breathing can lower the CO2 levels too much. Panic attacks often (always?) involve hyperventilation/low CO2 levels. Good CO2 levels are required for lots of things, including getting oxygen to tissues and calming nerves.
Combine hyperventilation with stress from low sugar, and some people can tip over the threshold for a panic attack.
Could be other things too, but I think these might be the first to address.

Have you tried a chin strap or a little tape on mouth to keep it shut at night?
How much are you eating through the day - carbs, protein, calories? (cronometer com or similar can be useful as long as you don't believe their (usually low) calorie recommendations.
Tried having something sweet for supper and keeping something sweet (and maybe salty) by the bed in case you wake up hungry/stressed?

I had written a longer post on your other thread but lost it before posting - will try to remember the other thoughts.

It def prob has to do with the CO2 levels. I unfortunately breathe through my mouth as my nose always seems to clog up (I really need to get this checked out and see why my nose is always blocked). I also suspect it may be sleep position that may be causing me to breathe differently too.

Is anyone familiar with buteyko breathing? What should I do to improve being able to breathe normally?

The panic attacks I am getting now are different than the ones from before. I would probably say more hyperventilation, shaking, chest feels a bit tight. I always drink orange juice when I do get one. It's hard to explain the difference but I don't see really any difference in terms of diet. I've been cooking with coconut oil for a long time now, mostly eggs lately. I don't think the eggs actually absorb much oil though. And then I started to take spoonfuls, but once I started noticing increasing anxiety, I stopped but still continued to cook with it and I am still having panic attacks.

The panic attacks are seriously ruining my life. I've always struggled with sleep, but these panic attacks are just horrid.

I was panic attack free for awhile, even while cooking with it. I've done intermittent fasting and cutting out all grains/rice/white potatoes and did not eat before bed and that seemed to help me so much. I still continue to do so. Sometimes I do eat more close to bed though. All the panic attacks seem so random and weird that I am continuing to get them even while changing practically nothing.

I've been keeping a food log but need to keep more details as in time of day eating.

I mostly eat eggs, fruit, low-fat kefir, beef, chicken, dates, salad, recently reintroduced liver.

Along with the panic attacks, I've noticed heart palpitations and a bit of chest tightness sometimes throughout the day.

Is there a big difference between eating a coconut and coconut oil? Now that I am having problems with CO I'm thinking that CO isn't a whole food and its better to maybe get it in the whole food form.

I need to get my thyroid checked out but don't know what kind of doctor to go to and what to test for. Is finding someone who prescribes desiccated thyroid better?

 

[bohogirl]

Times when panic attack have occurred recently:

April 30 1:51 am
May 4 2:09 am, 3:11 am
May 6 2:00 am, 3:51 am
May 15 1:45 am

 

[tara]

It def prob has to do with the CO2 levels. I unfortunately breathe through my mouth as my nose always seems to clog up (I really need to get this checked out and see why my nose is always blocked).

There could be other reasons, but the most likely reason for your nose to be blocked is that you are breathing through your mouth. That;'s what I was doing. Since I retrained myself to keep my mouth shut, my nose seldom blocks. I strongly recommend trying either a chinstrap or tape to help keep mouth shut while sleeping. The nasal passages tend to swell and produce more mucous in response to low CO2 levels, and getting the CO2 level back up can help clear the nose.
Stuffy Nose Remedy - Get Rid of and Clear a Stuffed Nose in 1 Min

Is anyone familiar with buteyko breathing? What should I do to improve being able to breathe normally?

Yes, there are several posts discussing Buteyko if you search. I used the normalbreathing site to learn about it.

The panic attacks I am getting now are different than the ones from before. I would probably say more hyperventilation, shaking, chest feels a bit tight. I always drink orange juice when I do get one.

Does the orange juice resolve it quickly? If so, that could be a clue that low blood sugar is a key contributor.

I've been keeping a food log but need to keep more details as in time of day eating.

I mostly eat eggs, fruit, low-fat kefir, beef, chicken, dates, salad, recently reintroduced liver.

I would like to see how much you are eating. No point in getting into details if the main problem is major calorie deficit, and so far I haven't seen an average/typical daily calorie estimate. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems like a possible contender.

Is there a big difference between eating a coconut and coconut oil? Now that I am having problems with CO I'm thinking that CO isn't a whole food and its better to maybe get it in the whole food form.

Depends on whether you get allergic reactions to other parts of the coconut (some do, in which case RBD oil is probably safer), or have trouble with the fibre (some do).
Is there a reason why you are eating spoonfuls of oil rather than just using a little in cooking? My guess is it's more useful in combination with a meal of other food.

I need to get my thyroid checked out but don't know what kind of doctor to go to and what to test for. Is finding someone who prescribes desiccated thyroid better?

Have you been monitoring temps and heart rate? They can give you useful information about this. There are posts about which tests may be useful - I can't remember the details. It is typical for drs to say all is normal even when thyroid function is far from ideal. So if you get tests, you can post results (numbers) here if you want other opinions.

 

[Maxim]

Try eliminating grains, a huge connection between gluten (and other components in grains) and mood and emotional health. Give it a try for 3 weeks, 100%, no cheating. Then eat some bread, boy you are not gonna sleep well, anxiety and darkness guaranteed that night! Something having to do with microbiome, gut bacteria and inflammation. Go figure I persisted eating grains for 10 years, convinced I did not have issue with gluten, and only when I tried the above trick it occurred to me how damaging grains are for me. Takes time to see results of grain free diet.

As for CO oil connection. Sat. fat being good for the body still has to be metabolized properly by the liver. If the gall-bladder is sluggish and liver is congested, that CO you take is not properly metabolized, gut bacteria cleans up the mess, producing endotoxins (ammonia), and acids (uric, lactic) which stimulate sympathetic nervous system, which in turn produces serotonin. Been there many times: waking up at 2-4am. with anxiety for years. Learned what works to solve the problem.

1. Don't eat fat/protein-heavy in the second part of the day. Give your liver a break.
2. Drop grains, they are strong contributing factor. Without grains you might still wake up, but not with panic attack.
3. Do liver flushes (oil/lemon juice) to cleanse liver and bile ducts.
4. Take baking soda solution on empty stomach, that will neutralize acid. The way it works: you wake up with anexiety, drink a glass of hot water with 1/2 tsp. baking soda, in 20-30 min you are back to sleep, without it you might suffer until morning.

 

[InChristAlone]

I disagree on having to eliminate food groups to get better, I tried gluten free for 9 months with no improvement in anxiety attacks. Sure I was still eating some grains here and there, but I saw no correlation between them and panic attacks. Although I did see a huge increase in anxiety from gorging on dried fruit. I think for some people white bread digests very well. But maybe other things are irritating for them. I hate blanket statements like 'grains cause inflammation' 'starches cause endotoxemia'.

 

[DaveFoster]

On panic attacks:
Ray Peat - When things are working properly, tissues are activated according to their use in adapting to the environment, and produce CO2 in proportion to their response; CO2 adjusts the blood supply while promoting mitochondrial energy production and regulating energy use. It stimulates normal breathing, while stabilizing (restraining activity of) nerves and other tissues. In the absence of oxygen (or presence of injury that prevents its use), lactate is produced instead of CO2, and displaces CO2 from the system, activating emergency alarm systems, potentially creating vicious circles of hormone changes and inflammation. Intestinal irritation (e.g., undigested food and bacterial toxin) releases large amounts of serotonin. Serotonin (named for its ability to constrict blood vessels) impairs oxygen use and increases lactate production. Hypothyroidism reduces tissues' ability to use oxygen and produce CO2, and slows digestion, increasing a tendency to produce serotonin, which activates stress hormones, etc.
Bag breathing can increase the carbon dioxide in the tissues, helping to reduce lactate production, but stabilizing the metabolic system is the real solution. With high glycogen stores, minor stresses don't tip the system into glycolytic metabolism easily.

Very insightful, Janelle. Thanks for that.

 

[Maxim]

Janelle525, thank you for you insight, and believe me, I was thinking just like you: "Grains no big deal, I digest them well, no extra gas, no extra gut aches or anything." Until I went 100% grain free, for considerable amount of time. I mean you start seeing results very gradually and the more time passes the better you like your new state of mind and body. I am only 8 months into it, and the improvements in the last 2 month is abut equal to 4 months before that.

I apologize for sounding blunt when saying that your 9 month "grain free" experience is hard to give any value since you have been eating grains here and there. This is no grain free. If you have the resolve to embark on this, you have to go 100% grain free. (I would drop oats and corn too, though they have no gluten) A bread crumb can throw you months back. That small piece of gluten activates an avalanche of immune chain reactions in the body, like a spark surrounded by gasoline fuel. Prominent mds and researches describe how it works.

Agreed, some people are more fine with grains than others. Judging from outside, I was doing fine with grains. But, boy, will I never touch that stuff again! I am calmer, stress resilient, sleep better, smile and laugh more. Gloomy, fear prone outlook to life is gone! I might wake up at night, but never a panic attack.

I feel so excited to bring this message to anyone with any health issue, large or small, from acne to schizophrenia. If you have any chronic issue that you don't know what to do about, drop grains! Anyone with panic attacks, to me it is just begging to drop grains, begging!

Again, gluten free is not a panacea, but a very big part of it. For me it did 60% of the job. The remaining 40% spread across baking soda, raw meat once in a while, liver flushes and coffee enemas plus some heavy metal chelation.

I also don't like blanket statements, you have to reserve them for some serious matters. However, in my opinion, this is one of these matters.

For anyone wishing to learn more:
Lookup video: "Truth about Gluten" by DBCnaturalhealth on youtube.
Lookup audio: "Dr. Tom O’Bryon " on oneradionetwork.com
Lookup audio: "Dr. William Davis – The Benefits of Becoming Wheat-Free" on itsrainmakingtime.com

 

[InChristAlone]

@Maxim , You are starting to sound more convincing. I am not discounting your experience, it is just that I've embarked on elimination diets with little to no success in solving chronic issues. I know I was still eating rice occasionally while doing the gluten free but come on billions of people eat rice...I had way more panic attacks because of coffee and chocolate milk. But my adrenaline rushes may have been from reactive hypoglycemia rather than endotoxemia, actually I think I know the difference between a panic attack and reactive hypoglycemia as the most severe panic attacks I've had came on after things like refried beans and dried fruit. Neither of those are grains. Refined grains can digest very well for some people and not set off inflammation.

 

[Jayfish]

I agree with Janelle. Imo, it is endotoxemia causing a severe adrenaline spike which drains you of glycogen causing hypoglycemia. This is why salt and sugar are so effective and for myself, white bread as well.

Fiber would be my first suggestion to eliminate. Anything thats not easily digested. Also nightshades. Swap out all coconut products for dairy products and eliminate chocolate and coffee as well. Unless you have a robust metabolism, they seem to cause more issues than resolve.

 

[Nomadic]

Janelle, refried beans and dried fruits are both very high in histamine and the body secretes adrenaline to counteract histamine. Most of the time, histamine intolerance is related to gut microbes, endotoxemia is not the only problem with a messed up gut. :) It would be interesting to know if you get the same feeling from, say, aged cheese, shellfish, leftover meat.

 

[InChristAlone]

@Nomadic I'm glad you brought that up, yes I do believe histamines are at play with adrenaline. It depends on the day for me though, I generally can tolerate all those things on low estrogen days. But yes I've had plenty of anxiety attacks after aged cheese and OJ. Actually I'm noticing that w/o OJ I can tolerate other high histamine foods w/o anxiety. It's a puzzle figuring this out

 

[Ukall]

I tried Carrot + CO (almost a tsp.) combo today, because I wasn't having a bowel movement since 3 days.
Holy moly, I felt so scared. I wasn't expecting this at all! Seriously, there was a moment that my heart literally stopped about 3 seconds straight. Then it started to beat really fast.
I am still pale, experiencing some palpitations, I feel somewhat apathic and lethargic (I have to do tons of effort to focus) after taking the salad.

I had indeed the need to go to the bathroom (twice already!), but I don't know if I want to repeat this again

 

[Blossom]

Seriously, there was a moment that my heart literally stopped about 3 seconds straight. Then it started to beat really fast.

Did this happen during a BM?

 

[Ukall]

Did this happen during a BM?

Herm, sorry, I am quite ignorant in this world... What is a BM?

 

[Blossom]

Herm, sorry, I am quite ignorant in this world... What is a BM?

That's okay, it short for Bowel Movement.

 

[Ukall]

That's okay, it short for Bowel Movement.

Ah!, lol ^^'
No. I took the salad and after nearly 7-10 mins, that was when I started to have the panic attack. Then it all slowed down. However I was still experiencing some palpitations, but no racing heartbeat.

Btw, I ate it 3 hours after having lunch (on an empty stomach I could say).
It took +/- 1h to have the 1st BM. Then the 2nd BM I would say that took +/- 2h30mins after the first one.

 

[Blossom]

Ah!, lol ^^'
No. I took the salad and after nearly 7-10 mins that was when I started to have the panic attack. Then it all slowed down. However I was still experiencing some palpitations, but no racing heartbeat.

Btw, I ate it 3 hours after having lunch (on an empty stomach I could say).
It took +/- 1h to have the 1st BM. Then the 2nd BM I would say that took +/- 2h30mins after the first one.

Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering if it was vagal stimulation from bearing down during a bowel movement but I'm glad it's not. Hopefully others will have some insight into your experience.

 

[bohogirl]

There could be other reasons, but the most likely reason for your nose to be blocked is that you are breathing through your mouth. That;'s what I was doing. Since I retrained myself to keep my mouth shut, my nose seldom blocks. I strongly recommend trying either a chinstrap or tape to help keep mouth shut while sleeping. The nasal passages tend to swell and produce more mucous in response to low CO2 levels, and getting the CO2 level back up can help clear the nose.
Stuffy Nose Remedy - Get Rid of and Clear a Stuffed Nose in 1 Min


Yes, there are several posts discussing Buteyko if you search. I used the normalbreathing site to learn about it.


Does the orange juice resolve it quickly? If so, that could be a clue that low blood sugar is a key contributor.


I would like to see how much you are eating. No point in getting into details if the main problem is major calorie deficit, and so far I haven't seen an average/typical daily calorie estimate. I don't know that this is the case, but it seems like a possible contender.


Depends on whether you get allergic reactions to other parts of the coconut (some do, in which case RBD oil is probably safer), or have trouble with the fibre (some do).
Is there a reason why you are eating spoonfuls of oil rather than just using a little in cooking? My guess is it's more useful in combination with a meal of other food.


Have you been monitoring temps and heart rate? They can give you useful information about this. There are posts about which tests may be useful - I can't remember the details. It is typical for drs to say all is normal even when thyroid function is far from ideal. So if you get tests, you can post results (numbers) here if you want other opinions.

When I breathe out through my nose, air only comes out of one nostril. Is this normal?

For the OJ question, not entirely right away. Almost always I will drink OJ if I get a panic attack. Whether it actually works or not, I don't know.

I eat constantly throughout the day and I eat until I'm full. I will try to count it though.

I'm using coconut oil because it's helping me lose a bit of weight and also because people say it is good for thyroid health. I would always eat it with a carrot, but it seems lately when I am eating it that way, it is triggering the panic attacks. Other ways I would eat coconut before would be baking sweet potatoes and frying eggs/liver.

Going to start monitoring my temps/heart rate.

I did eliminate coconut for a few days, and then went back to cooking with it. Sometimes, I would eat a spoon by itself, but I have been panic free since last posting. :)

 

[bohogirl]

Try eliminating grains, a huge connection between gluten (and other components in grains) and mood and emotional health. Give it a try for 3 weeks, 100%, no cheating. Then eat some bread, boy you are not gonna sleep well, anxiety and darkness guaranteed that night! Something having to do with microbiome, gut bacteria and inflammation. Go figure :) I persisted eating grains for 10 years, convinced I did not have issue with gluten, and only when I tried the above trick it occurred to me how damaging grains are for me. Takes time to see results of grain free diet.

As for CO oil connection. Sat. fat being good for the body still has to be metabolized properly by the liver. If the gall-bladder is sluggish and liver is congested, that CO you take is not properly metabolized, gut bacteria cleans up the mess, producing endotoxins (ammonia), and acids (uric, lactic) which stimulate sympathetic nervous system, which in turn produces serotonin. Been there many times: waking up at 2-4am. with anxiety for years. Learned what works to solve the problem.

1. Don't eat fat/protein-heavy in the second part of the day. Give your liver a break.
2. Drop grains, they are strong contributing factor. Without grains you might still wake up, but not with panic attack.
3. Do liver flushes (oil/lemon juice) to cleanse liver and bile ducts.
4. Take baking soda solution on empty stomach, that will neutralize acid. The way it works: you wake up with anexiety, drink a glass of hot water with 1/2 tsp. baking soda, in 20-30 min you are back to sleep, without it you might suffer until morning.

I actually have eliminated all grains/rice since last year. I did connect panic with grains at some points, but thinking back, it could be a bunch of different things. With the elimination of grains, I saw a big improvement in red acne scarring and have since decided not to eat it again.

I never really wake up with anxiety, it is always during the night time.

I do eat olive oil/lemon juice dressing with my salads. Maybe this isn't enough? I also have the problem where my skin has a yellow tint to it. My last blood test indicated elevated bilirubin.

Need to get another test but also at the same time trying to find a doc who will work with me.

 

[bohogirl]

How often and how long should one practice bag breathing?

Also, might be a stupid question, but for bag breathing, is it breathing in through nose and out through mouth into the bag?