Antidepressants (SSRI) Make Females Unattractive, Provoke Male Aggression

[Hugh Johnson]

Yep, and the "punchable" phenotype correlates very well with high serotonin - i.e. overly logical, argumentative, highly analytical, always capable of criticism but not constrictive one, etc. Such people often construct a social image of themselves of being a highly rational (read: annoying), but misunderstood and socially awkward "genius" that somehow deserves special attention and treatment from others.

Pretty much the entire "skeptic" community. I'm not having a go, I was one of those people and occasionally still have remnants of that behaviour. And I was severly bullied as a kid, something I blame on my parents and my grand parents.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Bullying is very very rarely the guys fault who gets bullied. The bully on the other hand is ****88 up in some ways. The bully is probably more serotonin dominant than the one who gets bullied. No-one with good mental and hormonal state bullies because it achieves nothing.

Overall, i think this study(ies) hold true largely with humans aswell, even though this is very primitive stuff.

"Fault" is not really a meaningful term here. I was bullied, but in hindsight I can see how annoying I was and how I was constantly triggering the aggression in others. Bullies themselves typically have stressors, such as being locked into a state indoctrination camp five days a week, and that then expresses in unhealthy ways because they lack support. Bullying in kids is not about fault, because kids lack the ability to self-regulate and thus are pretty much ruled by their body-mind. Adults sometimes have limited concious control over their actions, but even adults are typically just reacting to stimulus.

 

[Hans]

It would seem to me that "bullies" in general are kids/people who experienced trauma and that is why they want to bully others or "pry" on other kids/people's weakness.
For instance, weakness and/or irritation can trigger an aggressive "attack". Most bullies are/were victims (for example they were abused by their alcoholic father) so they have to make someone else a victim in order for them to feel better about themselves. Fear feeds fear. But the person getting triggered (the bully) is usually someone who has also experienced trauma and wasn't able to fight back. I don't think someone healthy with low serotonin would suddenly get triggered and bully someone out of the blue. Someone healthy would rather avoid other people with "weakness" or high serotonin issues.
So both the bully and the victim probably had something happen to them somewhere in their life which causes them to be bullies or be bullied. I think this is also why bullies tend to avoid healthier kids/people because they need someone weaker/more fearful than them to pick on in order to feel stronger/empowered.

 

[haidut]

Bullying is very very rarely the guys fault who gets bullied. The bully on the other hand is ****88 up in some ways. The bully is probably more serotonin dominant than the one who gets bullied. No-one with good mental and hormonal state bullies because it achieves nothing.

Overall, i think this study(ies) hold true largely with humans aswell, even though this is very primitive stuff.

Absolutely. Hopefully, the takeaway message is not "blame the victim". The bully is usually endocrinologist deranged. This study did not find hormonal imbalances, leaving elevated serotonin as the most likely cause of "attracting violence".
Bullies, sexually deranged people, serial killers, etc have all been shown to have elevated stress hormones (especially prolactin and cortisol) and low T (if they are males). There is fascinating study that I keep trying to post on the forum about the role of endocrine imbalance in criminal pathologies and fanaticism. Something more urgent always comes up, but should be able to post it next week. Anyways, in that study they make a good argument that both the aggressor and the victim share a similar phenotypes - one of enduring chronic stress. Often, the bully is somebody who was a victim in the past and once they find themselves in a position of power (physical, political, financial, etc) they unleash all that suppressed anger on the world.

 

[haidut]

It would seem to me that "bullies" in general are kids/people who experienced trauma and that is why they want to bully others or "pry" on other kids/people's weakness.
For instance, weakness and/or irritation can trigger an aggressive "attack". Most bullies are/were victims (for example they were abused by their alcoholic father) so they have to make someone else a victim in order for them to feel better about themselves. Fear feeds fear. But the person getting triggered (the bully) is usually someone who has also experienced trauma and wasn't able to fight back. I don't think someone healthy with low serotonin would suddenly get triggered and bully someone out of the blue. Someone healthy would rather avoid other people with "weakness" or high serotonin issues.
So both the bully and the victim probably had something happen to them somewhere in their life which causes them to be bullies or be bullied. I think this is also why bullies tend to avoid healthier kids/people because they need someone weaker/more fearful than them to pick on in order to feel stronger/empowered.

Yep, I was typing my comment above when you posted this. Bullies were typically bullied in the past themselves and once they acquire power they decide it's payback time.

 

[alywest]

Does it stand to reason at all that this is actually really due to low thyroid? I mean, serotonin issues and low thyroid have been connected indisputably by Ray Peat, so the fact that there's prozac in the water means that some people are more susceptible to it than others, and that would mean those who are hypothyroid. And interestingly, there seems to be a connection anecdotally between people who have low thyroid suffering abusive childhoods. I wonder if the abuse causes the rise in serotonin which eventually results in a thyroid disfunction and then the low thyroid perpetuates the serotonin cycle.

 

[haidut]

Does it stand to reason at all that this is actually really due to low thyroid? I mean, serotonin issues and low thyroid have been connected indisputably by Ray Peat, so the fact that there's prozac in the water means that some people are more susceptible to it than others, and that would mean those who are hypothyroid. And interestingly, there seems to be a connection anecdotally between people who have low thyroid suffering abusive childhoods. I wonder if the abuse causes the rise in serotonin which eventually results in a thyroid disfunction and then the low thyroid perpetuates the serotonin cycle.

It would depend on the person, but I think the direct cause is elevated serotonin. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, the study did not find endocrinological imbalance in the birds exposed to Prozac. I don't think they tested directly for thyroid though.
So, if somebody is born with low thyroid then that would generally result in higher serotonin. Another case would be exposure to stress, which increases serotonin and ultimately suppresses thyroid function too. Exposure to environmental disruptors like Prozac will likely have this effect. So, low thyroid and high serotonin both promote each other and either one can be initial cause of the other. But I still believe that high serotonin is what makes those people give the vibe of "attracting violence".

 

[alywest]

It would depend on the person, but I think the direct cause is elevated serotonin. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, the study did not find endocrinological imbalance in the birds exposed to Prozac. I don't think they tested directly for thyroid though.
So, if somebody is born with low thyroid then that would generally result in higher serotonin. Another case would be exposure to stress, which increases serotonin and ultimately suppresses thyroid function too. Exposure to environmental disruptors like Prozac will likely have this effect. So, low thyroid and high serotonin both promote each other and either one can be initial cause of the other. But I still believe that high serotonin is what makes those people give the vibe of "attracting violence".

Right, but based on that then everyone would have raised serotonin due to unavoidable environmental exposure. So there must be some underlying reason why some people have higher serotonin despite similar exposures as those who maintain a lower level, so it stands to reason in my mind that a strong thyroid (whether it's something you were born with or it's because your family didn't cause you excessive unnecessary stress in addition to the unavoidable environmental stressors) would be a built-in protective measure designed by nature and, as usual, f***ed up by mankind. That's my opinion at least based on the fact that I believe my highly stressful childhood was the root of my thyroid issues and unfortunately resulted in me being a high-serotonin child/teenager/adult.

 

[haidut]

Right, but based on that then everyone would have raised serotonin due to unavoidable environmental exposure. So there must be some underlying reason why some people have higher serotonin despite similar exposures as those who maintain a lower level, so it stands to reason in my mind that a strong thyroid (whether it's something you were born with or it's because your family didn't cause you excessive unnecessary stress in addition to the unavoidable environmental stressors) would be a built-in protective measure designed by nature and, as usual, f***ed up by mankind. That's my opinion at least based on the fact that I believe my highly stressful childhood was the root of my thyroid issues and unfortunately resulted in me being a high-serotonin child/teenager/adult.

I would agree with that - if two people with similar exposure results in one having normal serotonin the other one elevated is usually due to lower metabolism in the latter. CO2 one of the main controllers of serotonin uptake, and CO2 levels depend on metabolism.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It would depend on the person, but I think the direct cause is elevated serotonin. As I mentioned in an earlier comment, the study did not find endocrinological imbalance in the birds exposed to Prozac. I don't think they tested directly for thyroid though.
So, if somebody is born with low thyroid then that would generally result in higher serotonin. Another case would be exposure to stress, which increases serotonin and ultimately suppresses thyroid function too. Exposure to environmental disruptors like Prozac will likely have this effect. So, low thyroid and high serotonin both promote each other and either one can be initial cause of the other. But I still believe that high serotonin is what makes those people give the vibe of "attracting violence".

This topic reminds me of something I heard you mention on one of the Danny Roddy podcasts.... that elevated serotonin can turn nice, peaceful grasshoppers into swarming, destructive locusts...

When Grasshoppers Go Biblical: Serotonin Causes Locusts to Swarm

 

[haidut]

This topic reminds me of something I heard you mention on one of the Danny Roddy podcasts.... that elevated serotonin can turn nice, peaceful grasshoppers into swarming, destructive locusts...

When Grasshoppers Go Biblical: Serotonin Causes Locusts to Swarm

Thanks, spot on observation.
Btw, I was certain we had posted this study on the forum before but I can't find the thread. Hey @charlie, is it possible for threads from the older forum software to have gotten lost somehow during the migration?

 

[What-a-Riot]

@haidut When Grasshoppers Go Biblical: Serotonin Causes Locusts To Swarm

link to rpf post

 

[haidut]

@haidut When Grasshoppers Go Biblical: Serotonin Causes Locusts To Swarm

link to rpf post

Thanks. I saw that post but I am pretty sure we posted a thread on this article as far back as 2015. Oh well, as long as one post makes it through I guess it's all good.

 

[Regina]

Thanks. I saw that post but I am pretty sure we posted a thread on this article as far back as 2015. Oh well, as long as one post makes it through I guess it's all good.

Yeah, but that article is sooo good. Whenever I encounter these types, I amuse myself by visualizing them with locust head and antennae.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Why personal? I did not mean anybody in particular. There are legitimate socially awkward geniuses for sure. However, the ones that keep getting in your face telling you they are so smart are usually the ones to be wary of. I am sure you have run into these people before and know the difference between them and the truly shy, introvert geniuses.

You have described one of my alternate personalities to a T. I am sometimes very relaxed and down to earth but occasionally I will become the person you just described and use my intellect as a hammer to bludgeon others and as a shield to protect myself from the repercussions of my personality. Fortunately this is getting much rarer estroban seems to help a lot.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

It could be a full time job just track adverse biological effect reports, even with no commercial incentive for study. Many reports are impaired social/situational function have emerged recently. And as @haidut has noted, disturbances by one drug, like Prozac, in the SSRI category, probably reflects potential harm by the entire category. I aim to separately post soon about recent "transgenerational" adverse effects.

Maternal exposure to fluoxetine during gestation and lactation induces long lasting changes in the DNA methylation profile of offspring's brain and... - PubMed - NCBI
"early exposure to FLX [fluoxetine, i.e. Prozac] was also associated with a reduction in the social interaction time (p = 0.0084) and to a decreased in the plasma corticosterone level when animals were submitted to the restraint stress (p < 0.0001)."

Fluoxetine treatment of prepubertal male rats uniformly diminishes sex hormone levels and, in a subpopulation of animals, negatively affects sperm ... - PubMed - NCBI
Flx [fluoxetine, i.e. Prozac] administered to juvenile rats disrupts the hypothalamic-hypophyseal-testicular axis and its effects on sperm quality are not homogeneous in adults. In contrast, Flx altered concentrations of gonadotrophins and sexual steroids in all treated rats. These results suggest caution should be exercised in the prescription of Flx to prepubertal males.

Effects of waterborne exposure to the antidepressant fluoxetine on swimming, shoaling and anxiety behaviours of the mosquitofish Gambusia holbrooki. - PubMed - NCBI
"FLX [fluoxetine, i.e. Prozac] impaired swimming behaviour at high concentrations (25 μg/L and 50 μg/L) but not at low concentrations close to environmental levels (1 μg/L and 5 μg/L). When swimming activity was assessed 5 min after transfer of the focal fish to the testing tank, 50 μg/L FLX was the only concentration showing significant effects. However, when the same trials were performed 24 h later, 25 μg/L FLX turned out to be an effect concentration in addition to 50 μg/L. Interestingly, these concentrations would elicit fish plasma concentrations comprised within the range of human therapeutic doses."

This is so sad. And they start girls on this as young as middle school

 

[Jackrabbit]

The sad thing is they are starting to use birth control as a mood stabilizer. They first give you SSRI and then “if” those don’t work they start you on the pill to help with anxiety because it supposedly controls the amount of hormones you produce. Obviously what they don’t tell us is that they’re replacing our natural hormones with synthetic ones and most people don’t take the time to learn more about it. They believe they can take doctors’ words as the truth because we’ve been brainwashed to think they’re somehow omnipotent beings.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

The sad thing is they are starting to use birth control as a mood stabilizer. They first give you SSRI and then “if” those don’t work they start you on the pill to help with anxiety because it supposedly controls the amount of hormones you produce. Obviously what they don’t tell us is that they’re replacing our natural hormones with synthetic ones and most people don’t take the time to learn more about it. They believe they can take doctors’ words as the truth because we’ve been brainwashed to think they’re somehow omnipotent beings.

And eventually your work performance starts to suffer, so you start taking amphetamines:

Managing The Risks Of Taking Adderall To Enhance Work Performance

 

[jimisonthenet]

My mum's recently come off Prozac and is looking much healthier now. It almost killed her, mixing them with alcohol, it all made her extremely sedated and delirious

 

[Christopher R.]

They turn humans into obedient zombies. I doubt SJWs would exist if it weren't for SSRIs.