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SSRI Make Organisms Demented, Violent & Homicidal, Even At Low Doses

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    I posted a few studies on the now proven causal link between SSRI use and violent, psychotic behavior.
    SSRI increase risk of violent crime

    This new study found that the profoundly negative effect of SSRI on behavior is evident even in crabs, and even when they were exposed to very low concentrations of the drug. While the study used Prozac (fluoxetine), the effects span the entire class of SSRI drugs. The levels of SSRI the crabs were exposed to are likely not much different than levels present in tap water in most US counties. Given the recent campaigns to drink more tap and less bottled water, I am wondering how much of the violent crime we see is simply due to chronic, low-grade SSRI poisoning/toxicity. Keep in mind that all processed food is prepared with tap water (unless specified otherwise) and that includes cooked commercial food available in cafeterias, buffets, and "high-end" restaurants.
    Finally, as you can see from the study, the researchers have no problems establishing a causal link between serotonin and aggression (at least in non-human organisms). So much for the "happiness hormone"!
    I am wondering when this link will finally be publicly acknowledged in humans....

    Prozac in the water: Chronic fluoxetine exposure and predation risk interact to shape behaviors in an estuarine crab
    "...In Chasmagnathus crabs, Pedetta, Kaczer, and Maldonado (2010) modulated individual aggressiveness via manipulation of serotonin and octopamine levels, where aggressiveness increased and decreased with the addition of the respective hormone. Our results demonstrate similar effects in H. oregonensis. Perhaps fluoxetine, through modulation of serotonin levels, stimulates crab activity levels and drives aggressive behaviors. Fluoxetine's effect on serotonin levels appears to increase boldness and potentially other risk behaviors as studies on other species have suggested (Dzieweczynski & Hebert, 2012; Fong & Ford, 2014; Mesquita et al., 2011; Pedetta et al., 2010; Tierney & Mangiamele, 2001)."

    Portland State University | News
    "...In a laboratory, the PSU team exposed Oregon shore crabs to traces of fluoxetine, the active ingredient in Prozac. They found that the crabs increased their foraging behavior, showing less concern for predators than they normally would. They even did so during the day, when they would normally be in hiding. They also fought more with members of their own species, often either killing their foe or getting killed in the process. “The changes we observed in their behaviors may mean that crabs living in harbors and estuaries contaminated with fluoxetine are at greater risk of predation and mortality,” said researcher Elise Granek, a professor in PSU’s department of Environmental Science and Management."
     
  2. Sunny Jack

    Sunny Jack Member

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    If James Holmes is any indication, they also make the taker less concerned about the consequences of their actions. He stopped caring about passing his neuroscience exams, then he stopped caring about the social consequences of hitting on his female classmates, then finally he stopped caring about the consequences of shooting into a crowded cinema and being arrested. There seems to be a dysgenic numbing effect taking place here. So it makes sense that serotonin could increase violence through making the actor less worried about the potential outcomes of their behaviours.
     
  3. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    I do try to avoid tap water whenever possible, my concern has been because fluoride seems to inhibit thyroid function, but provides all the more reason to avoid tap water.

    I wonder if coffee at coffee shops is made from tap water. They do realize that the kind of water used in coffee will have an impact on taste... So hopefully starbucks uses spring water or I am going to have to stop.

    Orange juice made from concentrate will also be unfortunately made from tap water I suppose.
     
  4. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

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    Slade 99+% of coffee shops are using tap water
    there are a select few high end specialty coffee houses that do not use tap water
    but that sadly is not the overwhelming majority.
    Some may use some form of filtration to attempt to create uniformity but
    I don't know of a way to determine who uses what and IF it'd remove the substances mentioned




     
  5. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    I've found out that Starbucks has a formidable water filteration system installed at each store. From one barista-"The water filtration system used by Starbucks is a reverse osmosis system with particulate filters to pre-filter the water on the intake side and protect the RO membrane. It's pretty much the opposite of "minerally" though because one of the main purposes of the system is to remove all minerals so that they don't end up deposited inside the machines and so that local variations in water minerals and chlorine/chloramine don't affect the taste of their products. You could duplicate it with any RO water filtration system."

    So similar to a triple brita filter plus reverse osmosis. Question still remains if that gets rid of the fluoextine because I don't know what kind of molecule that is and the size.... Anyone know the answer to this?
     
  6. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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  7. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

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    Should have caught your mention of starbucks.
    I wouldn't drink starbucks coffee for money or love so they weren't even in my thoughts.
    I was thinking of independent specialty shops not Starbuck's or Peet's or whatnot.
    I'm sure in that regard you are correct both re: what's in place and re: questions about if the substances clear the filtration or not
     
  8. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    <future civilizations debate on the fall of America in the long ago age of the 21st century...debate is heated and factions cling to their theories.>
    ...
    <One steps forward with new evidence> "Wow looks like they put fluoride and SSRIs in their water...huh."
    ...
    <debate ends, people teleport back to their planets>
     
  9. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    Yes yes, starbucks is a terrible excuse for coffee, I've heard it plenty of times before. I really enjoy it though- it is the only robust, flavorful cup you can find at most coffee places.When I drink starbucks I feel like they've actually made something of the same strength as I would get at home. "But starbucks burns their beans" I don't believe a company as formulated and processed as Starbucks would be capable of burning their gigantic batches of beans, but I think people are not used to the full, robust (and slightly bitter) taste of authentic-strength coffee. Yes coffee is bitter- that's the nature of the beast. I have aquired the tongue for the savory bitterness as well. Mixed with cream and sugar, that coffee is just fantastic.
     
  10. jitsmonkey

    jitsmonkey Member

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    If you love it you should have more of it and enjoy it ;-) SSRI free of course lol

    for the record they do use low quality beans and the do prefer a longer roast and leave it deeper into the crack. By coffee roasting standards technically they do burn their coffee but to each his own ;-). It would be impossible to distribute a high quality product at scale as they do. They do a better job than anyone else at that scale. so there is that.
     
  11. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    All the effects ascribed to dopamine everywhere else are ascribed to serotonin on here and vice versa.

    Empathy, forgiveness, lack of aggression are all reduced by tryptophan deprivation in studies I've seen and thus are serotonergic but here they're considered dopaminergic traits for some reason.
     
  12. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    SMDH.

    Prozac(fluoxetine) can have bad effects on zebra mussels, freshwater mussels (including Mytillus galloprovincialis, Mytilus californianus), frogs (Rana pipiens), goldfish (Carassius auratus), western mosquitofish, medaka (Oryzias latipes), round goby ,wild guppies (Poecilia reticulata), and other marine creatures.

    The Granke group previously showed that Prozac negatively affected reproductive function of mussels:
    Long-term exposure to fluoxetine reduces growth and reproductive potential in the dominant rocky intertidal mussel, Mytilus californianus. - PubMed - NCBI
    “We measured algal clearance rates, mussel growth, and the gonadosomatic index, a measure of reproductive health. We found that fluoxetine negatively affects all measured characteristics, however many effects were mediated by length of exposure.”

    Prozac exposure also made male Siamese fighting fish less bold. Apparently, depending on context, fluoxetine can distort assertive or prudent behavior.
    Dose-dependent fluoxetine effects on boldness in male Siamese fighting fish. - PubMed - NCBI
    “Unexposed males were bolder in all contexts, were more consistent within a context, and had stronger between-context correlations than exposed males. Fluoxetine had dose-dependent effects on behavior, as males that received the higher dose exhibited greater behavioral effects.”

    The many species affected by Prozac(fluoxetine) suggest distortion of aquatic life and ecology in many ranges. @haidut raised the issue of more direct effects on humans. And this is a single antidepressant, out of dozens of antidepressants and many thousands of pharmaceuticals.

    Low environmental levels of fluoxetine induce spawning and changes in endogenous estradiol levels in the zebra mussel Dreissena polymorpha. - PubMed - NCBI
    Fluoxetine alters adult freshwater mussel behavior and larval metamorphosis. - PubMed - NCBI
    Chronic exposure to fluoxetine (Prozac) causes developmental delays in Rana pipiens larvae. - PubMed - NCBI
    Waterborne fluoxetine disrupts the reproductive axis in sexually mature male goldfish, Carassius auratus. - PubMed - NCBI
    Environmental occurrence and reproductive effects of the pharmaceutical fluoxetine in native freshwater mussels. - PubMed - NCBI
    Acute and chronic toxicity of fluoxetine (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) in western mosquitofish. - PubMed - NCBI
    Reproductive assessment of Japanese medaka (Oryzias latipes) following a four-week fluoxetine (SSRI) exposure. - PubMed - NCBI
    Aquatic ecotoxicology of fluoxetine. - PubMed - NCBI
    An evaluation of behavioural endpoints: The pharmaceutical pollutant fluoxetine decreases aggression across multiple contexts in round goby (Neogob... - PubMed - NCBI
    Impacts of the antidepressant fluoxetine on the anti-predator behaviours of wild guppies (Poecilia reticulata). - PubMed - NCBI
    Uptake, accumulation and metabolization of the antidepressant fluoxetine by Mytilus galloprovincialis. - PubMed - NCBI
    Chronic exposure to environmentally-relevant concentrations of fluoxetine (Prozac) decreases survival, increases abnormal behaviors, and delays pre... - PubMed - NCBI
    Chronic fluoxetine exposure alters movement and burrowing in adult freshwater mussels. - PubMed - NCBI
    Behavioural and transcriptional changes in the amphipod Echinogammarus marinus exposed to two antidepressants, fluoxetine and sertraline. - PubMed - NCBI
    An exploratory investigation of various modes of action and potential adverse outcomes of fluoxetine in marine mussels. - PubMed - NCBI
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I am about to send a tap water sample to our lab for analysis. They have a common test for pharma drug leechables, which tests for about 300 commonly used drugs. So, I will know soon if the tap water is as bad as I suspect...
     
  14. aguilaroja

    aguilaroja Member

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    Is the over/under for community water unprescribed pharmaceuticals 50 or more :^P ? As a public health matter, it would be a small expense to do sampling of major urban areas on every continent.

    One extra factor is that the "interactions" of "combinations of prescription drugs, beyond two or three, AFAIK remains essentially unknown. It is hard to find researchers even willing to take on triple combinations. Multiple drug contaminants in the same family seem especially hazardous, like the UK 2004-2006 finding of multiple NSAIDS(diclofenac, ibuprofen, and mefenamic acid) in water.

    The Complicated Question of Drugs in the Water — NOVA Next | PBS
    http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44630/1/9789241502085_eng.pdf
     
  15. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I would say the very presence of more than one drug should be taken as evidence of water unfitness. There are databases of known drug interactions so as a start, if I did a water study, I would simply assume the interactions will occur even if the individual concentrations are low, simply because there will be some people with downregulated xenobiotic enzymes or liver issues that will experience those bad interactions even at very low exposure.
    As far as UK - in addition to that study they also had several other ones that showed presence of all kinds of chemicals with anti-androgenic effects, with concentrations high enough for some people to claim declining male fertility is due to environmental exposure.
    Something fishy in the water?
    Environmental Health Perspectives – Statistical Modeling Suggests that Antiandrogens in Effluents from Wastewater Treatment Works Contribute to Widespread Sexual Disruption in Fish Living in English Rivers
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090118200636.htm
     
  16. dand

    dand Member

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    Starbucks is made from tap water. They claim to "filter" it, but that doesn't remove the fluoride from the brief investigatory work I did on the subject.
     
  17. dand

    dand Member

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    Interesting. I didn't see this, but still skeptical and honestly have noticed I prefer to drink less coffee. Unless I have food around, grabbing a coffee on the go tends to cause some kind of stress at some point in my day.
     
  18. dand

    dand Member

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    Oh boy, looking forward to the results.
     
  19. sladerunner69

    sladerunner69 Member

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    What kind of evidence did you find? Im open to more answers of course. And yes too much coffee does not sit well with me either, lowers my sex drive and makes me want to take a nap. Serotonin increase from gut irritation perhaps?
     
  20. DaveFoster

    DaveFoster Member

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    I don't think caffeine or coffee irritates the gut too much (although the latter might), but rather too much of either tends to work on similar mechanisms as gut inflammation, so you get peristalsis.
     
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