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haidut

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Mar 18, 2013
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USA / Europe
I posted a study recently showing that crabs exposed to very low levels of SSRI drugs (as found even in processed sewage) become reckless, aggressive, homicidal and generally psychotic.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ed-violent-homicidal-even-at-low-doses.20528/

While this effect of the drugs can easily be ascribed to some peculiar toxicity of the SSRI class molecules, the study below suggests that it is actually serotonin that is responsible for these bizarre behaviors. The study below demonstrates that by elevating serotonin in an organism (this time the study model was a slug) that organism can be made to behave almost automatically and in a very self-harmful (even lethal) way. As the study also says, this zombifying effect of serotonin has been confirmed in other lower species like ampipods and fish. The study even directly names the poison and the remedy - Prozac and cyproheptadine :):
I have also seen studies confirming these effects of serotonin in higher animals and even primates. So, there should be little surprise that modern societies are becoming more and more whacky - i.e. SSRI prescription rates continue to rise and even if a person is not directly taking such a drug they are exposed to it ubiquitously through tap water used for beverages, commercial food preparation, showering, and washing machines (clothes). In fact, as I posted in another thread the ability of SSRI drugs (and serotonin in general) to induce criminal behavior is apparently well-known to governments.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ssri-increase-risk-of-violent-crime.7829/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ssri-increase-risk-of-violent-crime.7829/#post-100107

So, if this knowledge is available and well assimilated then something more than incompetence is probably at play at the public policy level. I think that this study below gives a hint what the reason may be - if serotonin turns people into manipulable zombies capable of automatically marching to the orders of the powers that be (even to their own peril/demise), then serotonin and SSRI drugs are the perfect public policy instruments and the dream of every government official on the planet. The powers that be are the "parasite" analog from the study below and we are the unsuspecting "slugs". I find the study ironic precisely because the term "slug" is commonly used in the military and high-ranks of government to describe the working, obedient, slow-moving masses. No wonder LSD is a Schedule I substance and dopaminergic drugs are banned by WADA and officially frowned upon as gateways to "addiction". I think Ray already hinted at the deliberate nature of pro-serotonin propaganda stemming from the realization back in the 1960s that LSD and other serotonergic drugs making people "crazy" and defiant. Strangely enough, the term "oppositional defiant disorder", which is now part of the officially diagnosed mental disorders codified in DSM, was coined back in the early 1970s when civil unrest was at its highest levels. Not long after, the first SSRI drug was synthesized. Do you think this is a coincidence??

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635717305661
https://www.the-scientist.com/?arti...lved-in-a-Slug-Host-s-Response-to-a-Parasite/

"...Some parasites manipulate their hosts to behave in ways that help spread the invaders to new environments or hosts. A study published online last month (February 27) in Behavioral Processesreports that the parasitic nematode Phasmarhabditis hermaphrodita infects slugs and directs them toward more parasites. The researchers found they could reproduce this behavior by increasing the slugs’ serotonin levels, indicating that the parasites might be using the same mechanism.

"...The investigators then ran another experiment with the same setup but fed the slugs drugs that increase or decrease their serotonin levels, namely, the antidepressant fluoxetine (Prozac) and the anti-histamine cyproheptadine (Periactin), respectively. Serotonin makes the most logical target because it has been implicated in host-manipulation by other parasites, says Rae. They found that increasing serotonin in uninfected slugs made them seek out nematodes, while decreasing serotonin in infected slugs removed their affinity for nematodes. The results hint that serotonin is part of the nematode’s control over slugs, but this still has to be confirmed directly, says Rae."

"...Other parasites also use serotonin to manipulate hosts for benefits. Spiny-headed worms(Acanthocephalus), for example, change the behavior of their aquatic amphipod hosts to gain access to their next host, a duck. The worms increase serotonin in the infected amphipod, causing them to swim up and linger at the surface to be eaten by ducks. In a similar manner, the trematode Euhaplorchismakes their killifish host easier prey for birds by decreasing serotonin in the killifish and making them dash to the surface."
 

Vinero

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Do you think Psilocybin is anti-serotonin? I have experimented with magic mushrooms a lot a few years back (did them every weekend) and it made me feel very free, open and sociable.
It's officially a 5HT2A agonist just like LSD. But don't serotonin receptor agonists increase the exposure to serotonin? I am a bit confused about this.
Beware, this is in low doses only, high doses give a full blown psychedelic experience which can be frightening.
 

LUH 3417

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
Do you think Psilocybin is anti-serotonin? I have experimented with magic mushrooms a lot a few years back (did them every weekend) and it made me feel very free, open and sociable.
It's officially a 5HT2A agonist just like LSD. But don't serotonin receptor agonists increase the exposure to serotonin? I am a bit confused about this.
Beware, this is in low doses only, high doses give a full blown psychedelic experience which can be frightening.
i also experimented with psilocybin and think i expressed higher dopamine (laughing a lot, feeling very loving and open towards people, etc). i also stopped wanting to be around people who were parasitical.
 

LUH 3417

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
Do you think Psilocybin is anti-serotonin? I have experimented with magic mushrooms a lot a few years back (did them every weekend) and it made me feel very free, open and sociable.
It's officially a 5HT2A agonist just like LSD. But don't serotonin receptor agonists increase the exposure to serotonin? I am a bit confused about this.
Beware, this is in low doses only, high doses give a full blown psychedelic experience which can be frightening.
one thing i notice when micro-dosing is my pupils are almost always big and dopey.
 

Vinero

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i also experimented with psilocybin and think i expressed higher dopamine (laughing a lot, feeling very loving and open towards people, etc). i also stopped wanting to be around people who were parasitical.
That's awesome. Yes I would get huge laughing fits when it would kick in. Also felt very loving and open toward everyone, even ***holes, which could be dangerous.
The pupil dilation can be awesome, people commented on me and said "there's something magical about your eyes" lol.
I didn't get these effects consistently though. Sometimes I would get a bad trip and was not feeling so very open and loving.
 

LUH 3417

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Messages
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That's awesome. Yes I would get huge laughing fits when it would kick in. Also felt very loving and open toward everyone, even ***holes, which could be dangerous.
The pupil dilation can be awesome, people commented on me and said "there's something magical about your eyes" lol.
I didn't get these effects consistently though. Sometimes I would get a bad trip and was not feeling so very open and loving.
that's really funny. same with me in terms of volatility, but the bad trips would be expressed as an emotionless state where i just felt like i wasn't really a human being anymore. like completely emotionless and stoic that it could be kind of frightening. one time someone asked "are you looking at me or through me" **laser beam eyes**:droid:
 

Vinero

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Joined
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are they safe in low dose ? this seems to produce better results than the full dosage
Physically they are very safe, however just like LSD, weed and other psychedelic drugs the mental aspect can be overwhelming for some people.
Some people are definitely more sensitive to these substances then others.

Edit: I would be careful if you have leaky gut though, since magic mushrooms are a fungus.
If you have a strong digestive tract it's probably very safe.
 

goodandevil

Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
978
i also experimented with psilocybin and think i expressed higher dopamine (laughing a lot, feeling very loving and open towards people, etc). i also stopped wanting to be around people who were parasitical.
+1 i cant seem to get the same effects currently as i did when i started, but then again i think i've been changed for the better. Maybe you get a very accurate picture of reality, the shrooms stop being fun.
 

goodandevil

Member
Joined
May 27, 2015
Messages
978
I posted a study recently showing that crabs exposed to very low levels of SSRI drugs (as found even in processed sewage) become reckless, aggressive, homicidal and generally psychotic.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ed-violent-homicidal-even-at-low-doses.20528/

While this effect of the drugs can easily be ascribed to some peculiar toxicity of the SSRI class molecules, the study below suggests that it is actually serotonin that is responsible for these bizarre behaviors. The study below demonstrates that by elevating serotonin in an organism (this time the study model was a slug) that organism can be made to behave almost automatically and in a very self-harmful (even lethal) way. As the study also says, this zombifying effect of serotonin has been confirmed in other lower species like ampipods and fish. The study even directly names the poison and the remedy - Prozac and cyproheptadine :):
I have also seen studies confirming these effects of serotonin in higher animals and even primates. So, there should be little surprise that modern societies are becoming more and more whacky - i.e. SSRI prescription rates continue to rise and even if a person is not directly taking such a drug they are exposed to it ubiquitously through tap water used for beverages, commercial food preparation, showering, and washing machines (clothes). In fact, as I posted in another thread the ability of SSRI drugs (and serotonin in general) to induce criminal behavior is apparently well-known to governments.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ssri-increase-risk-of-violent-crime.7829/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/ssri-increase-risk-of-violent-crime.7829/#post-100107

So, if this knowledge is available and well assimilated then something more than incompetence is probably at play at the public policy level. I think that this study below gives a hint what the reason may be - if serotonin turns people into manipulable zombies capable of automatically marching to the orders of the powers that be (even to their own peril/demise), then serotonin and SSRI drugs are the perfect public policy instruments and the dream of every government official on the planet. The powers that be are the "parasite" analog from the study below and we are the unsuspecting "slugs". I find the study ironic precisely because the term "slug" is commonly used in the military and high-ranks of government to describe the working, obedient, slow-moving masses. No wonder LSD is a Schedule I substance and dopaminergic drugs are banned by WADA and officially frowned upon as gateways to "addiction". I think Ray already hinted at the deliberate nature of pro-serotonin propaganda stemming from the realization back in the 1960s that LSD and other serotonergic drugs making people "crazy" and defiant. Strangely enough, the term "oppositional defiant disorder", which is now part of the officially diagnosed mental disorders codified in DSM, was coined back in the early 1970s when civil unrest was at its highest levels. Not long after, the first SSRI drug was synthesized. Do you think this is a coincidence??

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635717305661
https://www.the-scientist.com/?arti...lved-in-a-Slug-Host-s-Response-to-a-Parasite/

"...Some parasites manipulate their hosts to behave in ways that help spread the invaders to new environments or hosts. A study published online last month (February 27) in Behavioral Processesreports that the parasitic nematode Phasmarhabditis hermaphrodita infects slugs and directs them toward more parasites. The researchers found they could reproduce this behavior by increasing the slugs’ serotonin levels, indicating that the parasites might be using the same mechanism.

"...The investigators then ran another experiment with the same setup but fed the slugs drugs that increase or decrease their serotonin levels, namely, the antidepressant fluoxetine (Prozac) and the anti-histamine cyproheptadine (Periactin), respectively. Serotonin makes the most logical target because it has been implicated in host-manipulation by other parasites, says Rae. They found that increasing serotonin in uninfected slugs made them seek out nematodes, while decreasing serotonin in infected slugs removed their affinity for nematodes. The results hint that serotonin is part of the nematode’s control over slugs, but this still has to be confirmed directly, says Rae."

"...Other parasites also use serotonin to manipulate hosts for benefits. Spiny-headed worms(Acanthocephalus), for example, change the behavior of their aquatic amphipod hosts to gain access to their next host, a duck. The worms increase serotonin in the infected amphipod, causing them to swim up and linger at the surface to be eaten by ducks. In a similar manner, the trematode Euhaplorchismakes their killifish host easier prey for birds by decreasing serotonin in the killifish and making them dash to the surface."
Excellent summary haidut.
 

LUH 3417

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
Physically they are very safe, however just like LSD, weed and other psychedelic drugs the mental aspect can be overwhelming for some people.
Some people are definitely more sensitive to these substances then others.

Edit: I would be careful if you have leaky gut though, since magic mushrooms are a fungus.
If you have a strong digestive tract it's probably very safe.
oh yea it gave me very weird stomach cramping and bloating during the time i was taking it.
 

LUH 3417

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
+1 i cant seem to get the same effects currently as i did when i started, but then again i think i've been changed for the better. Maybe you get a very accurate picture of reality, the shrooms stop being fun.
i like the way Maria Sabina talks about them as something you use to find lost things. so once you found what you're looking for, i think they start working against you, or something...
 

goodandevil

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Joined
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Messages
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i like the way Maria Sabina talks about them as something you use to find lost things. so once you found what you're looking for, i think they start working against you, or something...
That sounds about right. Once you spend 12 hours organizing your kitchen on acid, you've probably maxed out.
 

Vinero

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Location
Netherlands
Still the question remains: Does psilocybin reduce serotonin or increase it?
LSD and Psilocybin are 5HT2A agonists, so they agonize that serotonin receptor.
Does this increase or decrease the exposure to serotonin?
This is important, because overactivation of the 5HT2A receptor is associated with serious health issues.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...sed-by-increased-serotonin-sensitivity.21495/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/serotonin-as-the-cause-of-acute-pancreatitis.11839/
 

LUH 3417

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
Still the question remains: Does psilocybin reduce serotonin or increase it?
LSD and Psilocybin are 5HT2A agonists, so they agonize that serotonin receptor.
Does this increase or decrease the exposure to serotonin?
This is important, because overactivation of the 5HT2A receptor is associated with serious health issues.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...sed-by-increased-serotonin-sensitivity.21495/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/serotonin-as-the-cause-of-acute-pancreatitis.11839/
i think this question has been debated on the forum, as i've been looking for a similar answer, but haven't been able to draw any conclusions
 

LUH 3417

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
2,593
Still the question remains: Does psilocybin reduce serotonin or increase it?
LSD and Psilocybin are 5HT2A agonists, so they agonize that serotonin receptor.
Does this increase or decrease the exposure to serotonin?
This is important, because overactivation of the 5HT2A receptor is associated with serious health issues.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...sed-by-increased-serotonin-sensitivity.21495/
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/serotonin-as-the-cause-of-acute-pancreatitis.11839/
i think answering it in regards to psilocybin is pretty complex considering the different strains, growing conditions, soils, etc. i would love to know myself.
 

Vinero

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Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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i think answering it in regards to psilocybin is pretty complex considering the different strains, growing conditions, soils, etc. i would love to know myself.
I actually mostly used Magic Truffles, since magic mushrooms were banned since 2008 here in Holland. But the magic truffels are legal and can be bought in "Smart Shops"
They are just as strong as the mushrooms though.
 

ilikecats

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Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
633
@haidut Thank you for this... You're like the Roy Jones Jr of the Ray Peat Forum i.e. everyone knows your great but a lot of people think you're overrated (but still great) when in reality you're criminally UNDERRATED. I mean you beat bernard hopkins and james toney in their prime... I mean Roy Jones jr did. Some chump learns a few things about boxing and they think they sound smart saying "Oh roy jones had great reflexes and speed but he didn't have good fundamentals" HE HAD GREAT FUNDAMENTALS but he just didn't like to stick to them. Dude had one of THE BEST jabs ever but just didn't like to use it, PROBABLY for aesthetic reasons, I mean how insane is that? But yeah it's the same kinda cycle, when you first get into the Peat world you get amazed by haidut and then you learn a few things and you say "he's not so great" then you get deeper in and you realize haiduts one of the best and the baddest.
 
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