Alcohol Addiction Best Supplements?

[sladerunner69]

What do we think would be the best supplements for the treatment of alcohol addiction.

Subject in question (not me) has all the classical symptoms of an organism trying to lower stress hormones and alcohol is the poison of choice. Clearly it is a vicious cycle for while the alcohol creates a temporary relief it makes it worse by increasing things like serotonin and cortisol and requiring a bigger dose as time goes on.

My thoughts would be supplements that lower cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and supplements that increase dopamine.

I want to use as few supplements as possible as subject in question is unlikely to want to take lots of supplements.

I believe that serotonin from poor gut health is one of the primary causes of addicition in this case.

The primary supplements I have looked at are; Lisuride, Metergoline and Ritanserin. Secondary ones are pregnenalone, dhea, and b vitamins such as thiamine and niacinamide.

My questions are if I were to pick just one of these supplements which would be the best one? I was thinking Metergoline or Lisuride, however I am worried about dopamine dependency.

Yeah I think focusing on the gut and liver are the most important when recovering from alcohol abuse. Niacinimide can definitely help with digestion, maybe 500mg 1-3x daily, and eating only easy to digest foods. Vitamin k2 and caffiene for liver health. Glycine/gelatin has well documented benefits for both the gut and liver. Activated charcoal + Peat's carrot salad to clear out endotoxin build up. Lysine to further lower serotonin. Tyrosine to increase dopamine. Taurine for liver/dopamine benefits as well. Pregnenlone as a general anti stress/anti depressant measure. The time I have boozed while taking pregnenlone I felt terrible though, same with DHEA.

 

[Soren]

thanks @sladerunner69, thats interesting about the pregnnlone and dhea making you feel terrible when combined with alcohol. In what way did it affect you, was it more physical or mental? I'm worried about making the situation worse.

 

[sladerunner69]

thanks @sladerunner69, thats interesting about the pregnnlone and dhea making you feel terrible when combined with alcohol. In what way did it affect you, was it more physical or mental? I'm worried about making the situation worse.

Mental I remember feeling very irritable, tired, and just angry about everything I could think of. That's when I decided to stop drinking and taking dhea. Pregnenlone I still take often.

 

[Frankdee20]

Mental I remember feeling very irritable, tired, and just angry about everything I could think of. That's when I decided to stop drinking and taking dhea. Pregnenlone I still take often.

So DHEA had different effects for you than Pregnenalone. ? Pregnenalone makes me to on edge, mentally, overstimulated typically.

 

[sladerunner69]

So DHEA had different effects for you than Pregnenalone. ? Pregnenalone makes me to on edge, mentally, overstimulated typically.

Yes they are different, although there is some crossover because preg will convert to dhea, but mostly prog. DHEA typically energizes me for about an hour then leaves me irritable, tired, and listless. I though I was doing myself a favor taking 5-10mg topically 2-3x daily because I have post finasteride syndrome. However it turns out that at this point in my recovery my androgens including testosterone and DHT were already back to normal or even high, my problem now had to do with low 5ar1>prog>5adhp etc as explained in the PFS thread. So by taking excessive dhea I was increases my androens very hgh and antagaonizing the 5ar1 receptor, and lowering GABA in my brain giving me high anxiety and irritability.

In short, due to my specific health problems, dhea was not a great choice. I have occasionally took a very small amount, maybe 2mg, before a workout and did notice good effects in energy and mental focus, but still after a couple hours I got a little tired and irritable. In general I feel better off taking thyroid surrogate (caffiene+niacinimide+ aspirin) with some k2 and a little b6. Pregenenlone does not make me feel irritable, and does help energize me but you're right sometimes it can feel too stimulating so I have to be careful not to overdo it all. Ive also been experimenting with an amino acid combination of lysine, theanine, glycine, vitamin C which does help improve anxiety and mood for me.

 

[Frankdee20]

Yes they are different, although there is some crossover because preg will convert to dhea, but mostly prog. DHEA typically energizes me for about an hour then leaves me irritable, tired, and listless. I though I was doing myself a favor taking 5-10mg topically 2-3x daily because I have post finasteride syndrome. However it turns out that at this point in my recovery my androgens including testosterone and DHT were already back to normal or even high, my problem now had to do with low 5ar1>prog>5adhp etc as explained in the PFS thread. So by taking excessive dhea I was increases my androens very hgh and antagaonizing the 5ar1 receptor, and lowering GABA in my brain giving me high anxiety and irritability.

In short, due to my specific health problems, dhea was not a great choice. I have occasionally took a very small amount, maybe 2mg, before a workout and did notice good effects in energy and mental focus, but still after a couple hours I got a little tired and irritable. In general I feel better off taking thyroid surrogate (caffiene+niacinimide+ aspirin) with some k2 and a little b6. Pregenenlone does not make me feel irritable, and does help energize me but you're right sometimes it can feel too stimulating so I have to be careful not to overdo it all. Ive also been experimenting with an amino acid combination of lysine, theanine, glycine, vitamin C which does help improve anxiety and mood for me.

Nice. Hope it works progressively. Yeah, I get my Lysine, and Glycine from Magnesium Glycinate Lysinate. Nice supplement. Theanine from high grade Green Tea has a nice effect on me, and Vitamin C, I do like. I try not to go over 1 gram Ester C, empty stomach only (so as to not increase iron absorbtion). What type of C do you use ? I'm thinking of using the Pure Encapsulations Ester C and Flavanoids, but it's expensive. However, I'd only consume 1 619 mg capsule. Too much I think isn't good.

 

[Frankdee20]

Ethanol is interesting. It's like a really short chain fatty acid except it's missing a ketone group. All there is is a hydroxy. And it's saturated (as in saturated fat).

I think ethanol by itself is probably "protective" as Peat would call it. GABAergic, anti-glutamatergic.

Interestingly, drunk patients in the ER often have better outcomes than those who are sober.

The real problem is the acetaldehyde, which is what ethanol is broken down into. This I think is the reason why ethanol degenerates animals and humans (mainly).

1. Niacinamide or an NAD+ precursor - ethanol and acetaldehyde require NAD+ and NADH for metaboliation. I read that 6-8 drinks requires around 1.2kg of NAD+ to metabolize. So supplement with niacinamide or niacin.

2. Choline - Eggs should suffice

3. Coconut oil - is protective against ethanol and also creates ketones

4. Minimize PUFA - Chris Masterjohn wrote about this

5. Thiamine

6. Choose a different alcohol - honestly I think something like 2m2b or isopropyl would be far healthier than ethanol. Make sure it's no denatured though.

Your saying one can drink isopropyl?

 

[bdawg]

Ethanol is interesting. It's like a really short chain fatty acid except it's missing a ketone group. All there is is a hydroxy. And it's saturated (as in saturated fat).

I think ethanol by itself is probably "protective" as Peat would call it. GABAergic, anti-glutamatergic.

Interestingly, drunk patients in the ER often have better outcomes than those who are sober.

The real problem is the acetaldehyde, which is what ethanol is broken down into. This I think is the reason why ethanol degenerates animals and humans (mainly).

1. Niacinamide or an NAD+ precursor - ethanol and acetaldehyde require NAD+ and NADH for metaboliation. I read that 6-8 drinks requires around 1.2kg of NAD+ to metabolize. So supplement with niacinamide or niacin.

2. Choline - Eggs should suffice

3. Coconut oil - is protective against ethanol and also creates ketones

4. Minimize PUFA - Chris Masterjohn wrote about this

5. Thiamine

6. Choose a different alcohol - honestly I think something like 2m2b or isopropyl would be far healthier than ethanol. Make sure it's no denatured though.

Nice!

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Your saying one can drink isopropyl?

Hahah yup. I have done it before, quit a few times. As an experiment.

First of all, I would recommend to not do it. I came to the conclusion that it's not a good replacement for alcohol. It would only maybe be useful for someone who has a huge tolerance to alcohol, and has a failing liver, thus needs to get off the booze stat but cannot for risk of death. A good option might be isopropyl alcohol, but honestly even then, 2M2B would be better.

I measured everything precisely to the ml, found the exact amount in each ml, found the dosing online (there's been quite a few studies on it).

It's pretty benign, the only real danger is overdosing, which is why I took it very slow.

Also, I made absolutely sure it wasn't denatured with methanol by contacting the company who produced it.

Pretty useless. Didn't feel good at all, basically zero euphoria, and I would ALWAYS get a headache afterwards. Seems to mess with acidity and ion channels. Turns into acetone so that's a good explanation for the head aches. I seriously wouldn't even mess with it.

Don't recommend at all. For an alcoholic who can't seem to quit, who resists treatment with meds like benzos, then 2M2B is much better, but be absolutely sure the dosages are exact. Overdosing something like that is extremely scary, I've seen it happen with alcohol, and with 2m2b there'd be very little that could be done.

My original points stand also, lots of saturated fat + choline + NAC + niacinamide + thiamine is extremely protective against alcohols damage it seems.

 

[Frankdee20]

Hahah yup. I have done it before, quit a few times. As an experiment.

First of all, I would recommend to not do it. I came to the conclusion that it's not a good replacement for alcohol. It would only maybe be useful for someone who has a huge tolerance to alcohol, and has a failing liver, thus needs to get off the booze stat but cannot for risk of death. A good option might be isopropyl alcohol, but honestly even then, 2M2B would be better.

I measured everything precisely to the ml, found the exact amount in each ml, found the dosing online (there's been quite a few studies on it).

It's pretty benign, the only real danger is overdosing, which is why I took it very slow.

Also, I made absolutely sure it wasn't denatured with methanol by contacting the company who produced it.

Pretty useless. Didn't feel good at all, basically zero euphoria, and I would ALWAYS get a headache afterwards. Seems to mess with acidity and ion channels. Turns into acetone so that's a good explanation for the head aches. I seriously wouldn't even mess with it.

Don't recommend at all. For an alcoholic who can't seem to quit, who resists treatment with meds like benzos, then 2M2B is much better, but be absolutely sure the dosages are exact. Overdosing something like that is extremely scary, I've seen it happen with alcohol, and with 2m2b there'd be very little that could be done.

My original points stand also, lots of saturated fat + choline + NAC + niacinamide + thiamine is extremely protective against alcohols damage it seems.

Nice