Alcohol Addiction Best Supplements?

[Soren]

What do we think would be the best supplements for the treatment of alcohol addiction.

Subject in question (not me) has all the classical symptoms of an organism trying to lower stress hormones and alcohol is the poison of choice. Clearly it is a vicious cycle for while the alcohol creates a temporary relief it makes it worse by increasing things like serotonin and cortisol and requiring a bigger dose as time goes on.

My thoughts would be supplements that lower cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and supplements that increase dopamine.

I want to use as few supplements as possible as subject in question is unlikely to want to take lots of supplements.

I believe that serotonin from poor gut health is one of the primary causes of addicition in this case.

The primary supplements I have looked at are; Lisuride, Metergoline and Ritanserin. Secondary ones are pregnenalone, dhea, and b vitamins such as thiamine and niacinamide.

My questions are if I were to pick just one of these supplements which would be the best one? I was thinking Metergoline or Lisuride, however I am worried about dopamine dependency.

 

[Prosper]

carbs

 

[Soren]

carbs

He gets lots of those but eats too much PUFA.

 

[Peatful]

carbs

And sugars over starches.

 

[Constatine]

It is important to supplement vitamin B1 if one is a heavy drinker.

 

[Lecarpetron]

B1, C, antihistamines are recommended in @natedawggh blog (f***portioncontrol.com)

 

[RMJ]

My thoughts would be supplements that lower cortisol, estrogen, serotonin and supplements that increase dopamine.

Asiprin, niacinemid, taurin, glycine ?

 

[BingDing]

Broda Barnes wrote that he had never met an alcoholic that was not hypothyroid. So it's the whole RP deal about supporting oxidative respiration, haidut's tyromix and tyronene are good choices.

RP wrote about "addictions" and that the (addictive) substance was providing something the body needed. I've wondered what alcohol might be providing for years, thinking there might be some magic bullet. But I never found it.

Maybe alcohol is providing calories. There have been a couple recent studies that alcohol (ethanol) can be metabolized and feed the tricarboxylic acid cycle (Kreb's, Citric Acid Cycle) to produce ATP. One report said 7 kcal/gm of ethanol and one said 7.8 kcal/gm. That is more than the 4 kcal/gm that carbs provide, maybe that is why substituting carbs for alcohol doesn't work.

My two cents.

 

[DrJ]

RP wrote about "addictions" and that the (addictive) substance was providing something the body needed. I've wondered what alcohol might be providing for years, thinking there might be some magic bullet. But I never found it.

Maybe alcohol is providing calories. There have been a couple recent studies that alcohol (ethanol) can be metabolized and feed the tricarboxylic acid cycle (Kreb's, Citric Acid Cycle) to produce ATP. One report said 7 kcal/gm of ethanol and one said 7.8 kcal/gm. That is more than the 4 kcal/gm that carbs provide, maybe that is why substituting carbs for alcohol doesn't work.

You might find this post VERY interesting if you didn't already see it:

Ray Peat On Addiction / Alcoholism

 

[TubZy]

naltrexone, cypro

 

[BingDing]

You might find this post VERY interesting if you didn't already see it:

Ray Peat On Addiction / Alcoholism

Thanks DrJ. Reading that again was certainly useful. None of it actually came from RP, though.

The only thing I remember from Peat about alcohol is that with low PUFA levels it might not really be very harmful to the liver. Not terribly enlightening, IMHO....

 

[DaveFoster]

"I knew someone who had been addicted to morphine and alcohol for 30 years, who was drinking quarts of beer and wine daily when he didn't have morphine, who had an opportunity for a good job if he could get sober. Starting progesterone at bedtime (and stopping the wine), he said it was the first time he didn't have a hangover in the morning. He used enough progesterone to neuter most people, but said it didn't affect his sex function; he was taking a lot of Cytomel and magnesium, but wasn't drunk again as long as I knew him, and his general health improved."

- Dr. Raymond Peat

Pregnenolone and caffeine (or thyroid) can have a similar effect at resisting stress, and progesterone helps to reduce anxiety.

 

[johnwester130]

activated b1 is good too

Vitamin B1 (Thiamine Pyrophosphate) 100ml

activated b2

Niacinamide

Coconut oil

Liquid b6 - only a small dose needed

biotin

Magnesium

All of the above restore your ability to metabolise sugar - which is the problem in addiction.

 

[Lukas]

I think Danny Roddy and Haidut made a podcast about addiction.

 

[BigYellowLemon]

Ethanol is interesting. It's like a really short chain fatty acid except it's missing a ketone group. All there is is a hydroxy. And it's saturated (as in saturated fat).

I think ethanol by itself is probably "protective" as Peat would call it. GABAergic, anti-glutamatergic.

Interestingly, drunk patients in the ER often have better outcomes than those who are sober.

The real problem is the acetaldehyde, which is what ethanol is broken down into. This I think is the reason why ethanol degenerates animals and humans (mainly).

1. Niacinamide or an NAD+ precursor - ethanol and acetaldehyde require NAD+ and NADH for metaboliation. I read that 6-8 drinks requires around 1.2kg of NAD+ to metabolize. So supplement with niacinamide or niacin.

2. Choline - Eggs should suffice

3. Coconut oil - is protective against ethanol and also creates ketones

4. Minimize PUFA - Chris Masterjohn wrote about this

5. Thiamine

6. Choose a different alcohol - honestly I think something like 2m2b or isopropyl would be far healthier than ethanol. Make sure it's no denatured though.

 

[lollipop]

Ethanol is interesting. It's like a really short chain fatty acid except it's missing a ketone group. All there is is a hydroxy. And it's saturated (as in saturated fat).

I think ethanol by itself is probably "protective" as Peat would call it. GABAergic, anti-glutamatergic.

Interestingly, drunk patients in the ER often have better outcomes than those who are sober.

The real problem is the acetaldehyde, which is what ethanol is broken down into. This I think is the reason why ethanol degenerates animals and humans (mainly).

1. Niacinamide or an NAD+ precursor - ethanol and acetaldehyde require NAD+ and NADH for metaboliation. I read that 6-8 drinks requires around 1.2kg of NAD+ to metabolize. So supplement with niacinamide or niacin.

2. Choline - Eggs should suffice

3. Coconut oil - is protective against ethanol and also creates ketones

4. Minimize PUFA - Chris Masterjohn wrote about this

5. Thiamine

6. Choose a different alcohol - honestly I think something like 2m2b or isopropyl would be far healthier than ethanol. Make sure it's no denatured though.

Interesting @BigYellowLemon. I also have used high dose protease enzymes before when I went out and knew I would be consuming a considerable quantity. No hangover and not a huge "drunk" feeling. I wonder if protease enzymes could be used in coming out of addiction and if it would help with acetaldehyde?

 

[Travis]

LSD has been used with success:

Lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) for alcoholism: meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials

Assessments of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) in the treatment of alcoholism have not been based on quantitative meta-analysis. Hence, we performed a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials in order to evaluate the clinical efficacy of LSD in the treatment of alcoholism. Two reviewers independently extracted the data, pooling the effects using odds ratios (ORs) by a generic inverse variance, random effects model. We identified six eligible trials, including 536 participants. There was evidence for a beneficial effect of LSD on alcohol misuse (OR, 1.96). Between-trial heterogeneity for the treatment effects was negligible (I² = 0%). Secondary outcomes, risk of bias and limitations are discussed. A single dose of LSD, in the context of various alcoholism treatment programs, is associated with a decrease in alcohol misuse.

LSD is a known serotonin inhibitor, but it's effects do wear-off. Perhaps there is a better way to explain it?

 

[CoolTweetPete]

B-Vitamins are crucial for recovery, so liver supplementation is warranted as it is a great source of many of them.

In my personal experience as a recovering alcohol abuser, I think things that promote dopamine (like LSD as mentioned above) help. Haidut has mentioned cyproheptadine being used to control withdrawal symptoms. I think pro-dopamine drugs seem to completely quench any cravings for alcohol. I have had a lot of success with DeFibron. I think maybe because it also has helped my liver recovery.

 

[Frankdee20]

As an undeniable binge drinking, non recovering addict, the title to this thread is my 65,000 dollar question ! How many friends do I need to lose, families I need to crumble, opportunities I need to squander before I'm supposed to "get it ? Alcohol effects numerous neurotransmitter systems, making it unique. It's primarily an NMDA antagonist. It augments, indirectly, Dopaminergic nuerotransmission via GABA/Glutamate interactions. I can't say anything in particular has helped me with regards to various aspects of its use/abuse/aversion potential. They're really is no there there.

 

[Frankdee20]

As an undeniable binge drinking, non recovering addict, the title to this thread is my 65,000 dollar question ! How many friends do I need to lose, families I need to crumble, opportunities I need to squander before I'm supposed to "get it ? Alcohol effects numerous neurotransmitter systems, making it unique. It's primarily an NMDA antagonist. It augments, indirectly, Dopaminergic nuerotransmission via GABA/Glutamate interactions. I can't say anything in particular has helped me with regards to various aspects of its use/abuse/aversion potential. They're really is no there there.