5mg DHEA did NOT increase my levels

[mgrabs]

Ive been on 5mg DHEA for about 2 months with no sign of raising dhea levels. Actually dropped a bit. I hear a lot of talk about low doses being more powerful ans high doses are no good.

What should i do?

How much should i increase by?
Anyone okay with high doses without hairloss and bad symptoms?

Still showing signs of fatigue so id like to get my levels up

Any help will be great!

 

[Mossy]

Ive been on 5mg DHEA for about 2 months with no sign of raising dhea levels. Actually dropped a bit. I hear a lot of talk about low doses being more powerful ans high doses are no good.

What should i do?

How much should i increase by?
Anyone okay with high doses without hairloss and bad symptoms?

Still showing signs of fatigue so id like to get my levels up

Any help will be great!

Here is a quote from Dr. Peat, from his article: Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones, which may imply you're taking too much: he recommends 4mg at age 50. He notes it's important to avoid taking more than needed. If you happen to be above 50, than maybe you need more; if under 50, maybe less.

"At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

People who have taken an excess of DHEA have been found to have abnormally high estrogen levels, and this can cause the liver to enlarge, and the thymus to shrink.

One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production."

 

[mgrabs]

Here is a quote from Dr. Peat, from his article: Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones, which may imply you're taking too much: he recommends 4mg at age 50. He notes it's important to avoid taking more than needed. If you happen to be above 50, than maybe you need more; if under 50, maybe less.

"At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

People who have taken an excess of DHEA have been found to have abnormally high estrogen levels, and this can cause the liver to enlarge, and the thymus to shrink.

One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production."

I saw all of this but 5mg didn’t even move the dial for me!

 

[Hans]

Ive been on 5mg DHEA for about 2 months with no sign of raising dhea levels. Actually dropped a bit. I hear a lot of talk about low doses being more powerful ans high doses are no good.

What should i do?

How much should i increase by?
Anyone okay with high doses without hairloss and bad symptoms?

Still showing signs of fatigue so id like to get my levels up

Any help will be great!

You need about 25-50mg daily to restore levels to normal. 2-4mg sublingual might have a good brain effect, but will do little for your actual levels.

 

[mgrabs]

You need about 25-50mg daily to restore levels to normal. 2-4mg sublingual might have a good brain effect, but will do little for your actual levels.

Gonna give that a shot tomorrow morning. Is there an adaptation period getting used to it coming from a small amount? Trying to really care for my adrenals since thyroid has been helping greatly. I also take 30 mg pregnenolone. Should i stay at that dose?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Here is a quote from Dr. Peat, from his article: Progesterone Pregnenolone & DHEA - Three Youth-Associated Hormones, which may imply you're taking too much: he recommends 4mg at age 50. He notes it's important to avoid taking more than needed. If you happen to be above 50, than maybe you need more; if under 50, maybe less.

"At the age of 50, about 4 mg. of DHEA per day will usually restore the level of DHEA in the blood to a youthful level. It is important to avoid taking more than needed, since some people (especially if they are deficient in progesterone, pregnenolone, or thyroid) can turn the excess into estrogen or testosterone, and large amounts of those sex hormones can disturb the function of the thymus gland and the liver.

People who have taken an excess of DHEA have been found to have abnormally high estrogen levels, and this can cause the liver to enlarge, and the thymus to shrink.

One study has found that the only hormone abnormality in a groupt of Alzheimers patients' brains was an excess of DHEA. In cell culture, DHEA can cause changes in glial cells resembling those seen in the aging brain. These observations suggest that DHEA should be used with caution. Supplements of pregnenolone and thyroid seem to be the safest way to optimize DHEA production."

I do fine with pregnenolone... but even very small amounts of DHEA make me feel ill... no idea why... I do have some topical DHEA cream... but have not tried it due to the effects of the DHEA tablets.

 

[Hans]

Gonna give that a shot tomorrow morning. Is there an adaptation period getting used to it coming from a small amount? Trying to really care for my adrenals since thyroid has been helping greatly. I also take 30 mg pregnenolone. Should i stay at that dose?

No you can increase the dose right away. In studies, no sides are reported from those doses.

 

[TucsonJJ]

No you can increase the dose right away. In studies, no sides are reported from those doses.

Jeeze, I get bad sides from half of a 5mg DHEA tab... any idea why?

 

[Hans]

Jeeze, I get bad sides from half of a 5mg DHEA tab... any idea why?

Perhaps it's a bad brand? An excipient perhaps?

 

[TucsonJJ]

Perhaps it's a bad brand? An excipient perhaps?

Thx, sure could be... it's not expensive, I'll try another brand... my T is pretty low, even for a 67yr old, 380 total, but my Free T is horrible, last tested at 3.0
I got some enclomiphene, but started it same time as inosine and butyrate... something, or a combo, made me feel like crap.
Your opinion on enclomiphene??

 

[haidut]

Ive been on 5mg DHEA for about 2 months with no sign of raising dhea levels. Actually dropped a bit. I hear a lot of talk about low doses being more powerful ans high doses are no good.

What should i do?

How much should i increase by?
Anyone okay with high doses without hairloss and bad symptoms?

Still showing signs of fatigue so id like to get my levels up

Any help will be great!

Blood steroid levels mean nothing, except to show how well a gland/organ producing a specific steroid is working. In the case of DHEA, that would be the adrenals. It is tissue levels that matter, when it comes to the systemic effects of a steroid, and blood levels are not going to give that information. That being said, taking 5mg DHEA will raise blood levels but only after 6-12 months of supplementation, as several human studies demonstrated. However, if one were to check nail/hair levels, even 5mg of pregnenolone of DHEA elevate levels well-beyond the upper limit of the normal range after even a few days of supplementation. So, Ray's comments on 5mg being a dose that can restore (tissue) levels even in very old people is spot on. See below link for more info.

IdeaLabs Service - Steroid Analysis (hair and/or (toe)nail)

@haidut in one of the videos you linked to from the Idealabs page for hair sample instructions, it says one should wash the hair with shampoo before cutting the strands of hair. They also say not too wait too long after washing for the hair not to become oily. Do you find that recommendation...

raypeatforum.com

 

[Korven]

Blood steroid levels mean nothing, except to show how well a gland/organ producing a specific steroid is working. In the case of DHEA, that would be the adrenals. It is tissue levels that matter, when it comes to the systemic effects of a steroid, and blood levels are not going to give that information. That being said, taking 5mg DHEA will raise blood levels but only after 6-12 months of supplementation, as several human studies demonstrated. However, if one were to check nail/hair levels, even 5mg of pregnenolone of DHEA elevate levels well-beyond the upper limit of the normal range after even a few days of supplementation. So, Ray's comments on 5mg being a dose that can restore (tissue) levels even in very old people is spot on. See below link for more info.

IdeaLabs Service - Steroid Analysis (hair and/or (toe)nail)

@haidut in one of the videos you linked to from the Idealabs page for hair sample instructions, it says one should wash the hair with shampoo before cutting the strands of hair. They also say not too wait too long after washing for the hair not to become oily. Do you find that recommendation...

raypeatforum.com

I can confirm that 5 mg is enough to raise DHEA in old/sick people.

My mom is on high-dose glucocorticoids for GCA and her DHEA levels were almost 0 (either due to the exogenous prednisone, and/or age, and/or inflammation).

Her DHEA levels did not increase on 50 mg pregnenolone, but when we added in 5 mg DHEA per day in just a few weeks her levels were back in the normal range. It is helping her wean off the prednisone without symptoms returning and she is feeling better, knock on wood.

 

[Hans]

Blood steroid levels mean nothing, except to show how well a gland/organ producing a specific steroid is working. In the case of DHEA, that would be the adrenals. It is tissue levels that matter, when it comes to the systemic effects of a steroid, and blood levels are not going to give that information. That being said, taking 5mg DHEA will raise blood levels but only after 6-12 months of supplementation, as several human studies demonstrated. However, if one were to check nail/hair levels, even 5mg of pregnenolone of DHEA elevate levels well-beyond the upper limit of the normal range after even a few days of supplementation. So, Ray's comments on 5mg being a dose that can restore (tissue) levels even in very old people is spot on. See below link for more info.

IdeaLabs Service - Steroid Analysis (hair and/or (toe)nail)

@haidut in one of the videos you linked to from the Idealabs page for hair sample instructions, it says one should wash the hair with shampoo before cutting the strands of hair. They also say not too wait too long after washing for the hair not to become oily. Do you find that recommendation...

raypeatforum.com

I've personally had clients who have done your test and have used 5mg+ DHEA and it still showed up non-detectable. Blood values can be very helpful and there are 1000s of studies backing it up. ATM (from what I've seen working with clients) I trust blood values much more than nail and hair analysis.

 

[Mossy]

I do fine with pregnenolone... but even very small amounts of DHEA make me feel ill... no idea why... I do have some topical DHEA cream... but have not tried it due to the effects of the DHEA tablets.

So, if you take the DHEA with pregnenolone you still feel ill? Like you, I do poorly with DHEA, and I tend to be able to tolerate pregnenonlone a little better, but, all-in-all, I don't do well with supplements; though, I'm always trying.

 

[TucsonJJ]

So, if you take the DHEA with pregnenolone you still feel ill? Like you, I do poorly with DHEA, and I tend to be able to tolerate pregnenonlone a little better, but, all-in-all, I don't do well with supplements; though, I'm always trying.

Man, I sure can relate to not doing well with supplements... but always trying... for the last 20 years I have been trying to "fix" myself with supps... and constantly dealing with bad side effects. I have a sensitive system... maybe due to the long term abuse of supps! I have not tried taking DHEA with pregnenolone, but just yesterday I had bad heart palps from taking Allthiamine... lucky a good guy left a review on Amazon that you should take magnesium with it or you might get the palps, so I took some fast and it helped... but I am done with supps for a while.
Odd that so many gym pals, young and older like me, have been doing great for many years with either no supps... or a multi once in awhile.
I think this site, especially Haidut (who is an impressive guy) talk so much about supps... people think we need them to survive... and end up taking way too many... they all sound like they will be life changing.

 

[Mossy]

Man, I sure can relate to not doing well with supplements... but always trying... for the last 20 years I have been trying to "fix" myself with supps... and constantly dealing with bad side effects. I have a sensitive system... maybe due to the long term abuse of supps! I have not tried taking DHEA with pregnenolone, but just yesterday I had bad heart palps from taking Allthiamine... lucky a good guy left a review on Amazon that you should take magnesium with it or you might get the palps, so I took some fast and it helped... but I am done with supps for a while.
Odd that so many gym pals, young and older like me, have been doing great for many years with either no supps... or a multi once in awhile.
I think this site, especially Haidut (who is an impressive guy) talk so much about supps... people think we need them to survive... and end up taking way too many... they all sound like they will be life changing.

Supplements are really tricky—that has been the majority of my experience. But, I know people who can take them with no to minimal trouble. I think the goal is to use them to compensate for a subpar, deficient state, and to bring yourself back up to "normal" (if possible), with the intent to taper off of them. But, for many of us who've been dealing with subpar states, due to chronic health issues—or just the chronic state of aging—we'll never get back to normal. So, it seems that something like long-term, low dose DHEA may be beneficial if someone could tolerate it.

Haidut has a thread which shows results with low dose DHEA, just 2-3mg, being effective; but, like you, I bet those low doses would still cause trouble for me. He notes the study caused enlarged liver in the rats, and I've dealt with enlarged liver from supplements before.

"These studies shows that a low dose DHEA dramatically improves oxidative metabolism in liver and brain. The treatment was for only 7 days and resulted in 2-4 fold increases in metabolism in these tissues. The doses used were lower than the DHT study and in fact the dose equivalent to 15mg for a human had negative effects such as increased liver weight and decreases in some subcomponents of cytochrome C. The lowest dosage used that had good effects (and in some cases had the most positive effect) was equivalent to 2mg - 3mg per day for a human. Even that dose enlarged the liver of the rats in one of the studies but the effects were quite small. Anyways, it seems that Ray is right on his warnings about DHEA and liver/brain. However, it also seems that low doses of DHEA have VERY beneficial effect on oxidative metabolism. So, starting with something like 5mg daily is probably a good way to test its effects. Do not exceed 15mg as that has negative effects on both liver and brain."

Here is an example of someone who has nothing but benefits from 2.5mg of DHEA, long-term (1 year):

"I haven't had much experience with Pregnenolone myself. But DHEA I have been using for over a year to good result. 2.5mg a day is all I needed to see some serious benefits. I wouldn't go higher than 5mg and would prefer to stick with 2.5 personally. Taken at night with other foods/supplements to support its conversion to Androgenic/Anabolic hormones. Glycine/Taurine, Aspirin, Niacinamide, Caffeine (during the day) etc."

 

[TucsonJJ]

Supplements are really tricky—that has been the majority of my experience. But, I know people who can take them with no to minimal trouble. I think the goal is to use them to compensate for a subpar, deficient state, and to bring yourself back up to "normal" (if possible), with the intent to taper off of them. But, for many of us who've been dealing with subpar states, due to chronic health issues—or just the chronic state of aging—we'll never get back to normal. So, it seems that something like long-term, low dose DHEA may be beneficial if someone could tolerate it.

Haidut has a thread which shows results with low dose DHEA, just 2-3mg, being effective; but, like you, I bet those low doses would still cause trouble for me. He notes the study caused enlarged liver in the rats, and I've dealt with enlarged liver from supplements before.

"These studies shows that a low dose DHEA dramatically improves oxidative metabolism in liver and brain. The treatment was for only 7 days and resulted in 2-4 fold increases in metabolism in these tissues. The doses used were lower than the DHT study and in fact the dose equivalent to 15mg for a human had negative effects such as increased liver weight and decreases in some subcomponents of cytochrome C. The lowest dosage used that had good effects (and in some cases had the most positive effect) was equivalent to 2mg - 3mg per day for a human. Even that dose enlarged the liver of the rats in one of the studies but the effects were quite small. Anyways, it seems that Ray is right on his warnings about DHEA and liver/brain. However, it also seems that low doses of DHEA have VERY beneficial effect on oxidative metabolism. So, starting with something like 5mg daily is probably a good way to test its effects. Do not exceed 15mg as that has negative effects on both liver and brain."

Here is an example of someone who has nothing but benefits from 2.5mg of DHEA, long-term (1 year):

"I haven't had much experience with Pregnenolone myself. But DHEA I have been using for over a year to good result. 2.5mg a day is all I needed to see some serious benefits. I wouldn't go higher than 5mg and would prefer to stick with 2.5 personally. Taken at night with other foods/supplements to support its conversion to Androgenic/Anabolic hormones. Glycine/Taurine, Aspirin, Niacinamide, Caffeine (during the day) etc."

Good stuff. I think I take a week or two off everything but magnesium... then maybe try things one at a time... I do not think I am deficient in much,a nd feeling so much better so fast, after taking only a couple of days off... indicates that the supps may be the problem.
I do fine with pregnenolone, so I think I don't need to bother with DHEA. They both are precursors to testosterone... Glycine is one that give me sides, taurine too... but mag taurate doesn't... Aspirin is fine, but I like serrapeptase a lot too, and both are blood thinners... adding vit E, and I may have too much blood thinning... I am not at all sure that Niacinamide may be giving me sides... if so, bummer, I know it is one of Dinkov's (and Mercola's) faves... I do fine with Niacin...
I love coffee, but caffeine gives me palps... BUT... that could be a lack of mag... I have been taking mag pretty consistently, but maybe not enough... I will do some more reading on it... teh magnesium miracle may be a good start...

 

[sweetpeat]

Ive been on 5mg DHEA for about 2 months with no sign of raising dhea levels. Actually dropped a bit. I hear a lot of talk about low doses being more powerful ans high doses are no good.

What should i do?

How much should i increase by?
Anyone okay with high doses without hairloss and bad symptoms?

Still showing signs of fatigue so id like to get my levels up

Any help will be great!

Was it micronized DHEA? I find for myself that it has to be specifically micronized. I've tried non-micronized and it didn't work for me.

 

[Mossy]

Good stuff. I think I take a week or two off everything but magnesium... then maybe try things one at a time... I do not think I am deficient in much,a nd feeling so much better so fast, after taking only a couple of days off... indicates that the supps may be the problem.
I do fine with pregnenolone, so I think I don't need to bother with DHEA. They both are precursors to testosterone... Glycine is one that give me sides, taurine too... but mag taurate doesn't... Aspirin is fine, but I like serrapeptase a lot too, and both are blood thinners... adding vit E, and I may have too much blood thinning... I am not at all sure that Niacinamide may be giving me sides... if so, bummer, I know it is one of Dinkov's (and Mercola's) faves... I do fine with Niacin...
I love coffee, but caffeine gives me palps... BUT... that could be a lack of mag... I have been taking mag pretty consistently, but maybe not enough... I will do some more reading on it... teh magnesium miracle may be a good start...

I had to laugh reading your long list of supplements, because I've been there and have tried every single one you've mentioned—and, I can't tolerate a single one. Initially, some can make me feel better, but it always ends in me feeling off to very off. Even so, I'll keep on experimenting, in the hopes of finding the right balance.

 

[TucsonJJ]

I had to laugh reading your long list of supplements, because I've been there and have tried every single one you've mentioned—and, I can't tolerate a single one. Initially, some can make me feel better, but it always ends in me feeling off to very off. Even so, I'll keep on experimenting, in the hopes of finding the right balance.

I wouldn't want to list all the supps I have tried and even now, I have around 100-150 in the house... pathetic.
So, I am really trying to take a full week off everything... except for d-ribose and... MAGNESIUM. I scanned through the book The Magnesium Miracle... and I found I was taking less mag than I had thought, around 100-200mg, maybe 3X/week. I upped that to 400mg daily for the last few days, maybe a little more... and have been feeling great. Mood better, body feels much more in "balance"... no heart palps, stomach feeling much better too.
Try it... amazing improvement in just a few days, I'm sure it's the mag... and stopping the other stuff.