20 Years Depersonalized. And Now Dementia From Omega 3s, Etc!

[Mmmaurshmallows]

My poor brain has been beat up my whole life...and it's been 52 years! My history...

-I was formula fed. (Great start, hey?) Anxiety/shyness/fearfullness as far back as I can remember. But, when around people that I felt comfortable with I loved to talk. My brain seemed to never shut off, although I loved my studies and did well in school, so didn't have much as far as focus problems. (I eventually got a degree in nutrition) I have also had stomach aches and low motility since beginning school, and I now know that gut and brain health are completely related. Also a lifetime of hypoglycemia w 3:00 headaches.
-Early teens began increased fear, self-consciousness, and panic attacks. My brain continued 'to have a mind of it's own' and I always had to be distracted by friends or television or music or I would get nervous. GAD.
-Age 25 rather depressed...no focus or direction in my life. I got pregnant, which brought on my first big mental problem. I didn't take a PG vit-min (can't swallow pills), and learned that was a very bad idea. At around 4 months my brain 'cracked' and suddenly nothing would shut it up...and fear ruled my world. I dealt with the non-stop obsessive fears for 6 years...then my brain really cracked!
-Age 31 my completely exhausted mind finally went into a world of depersonalization, and it hasn't come back since. It was a living hell the first 5 years...now it's just a living nightmare as anhedia (sp?) set in. I have managed to learn how to look past it and sorta pretend I'm living a normal existence, so life has gone on and so have I. Since removing most (I still eat out occassionally) plant oils and replacing with grassfed organic butter, etc. for the past 4 years I know I'm doing better, mentally and physically. But here's the catch...
-Age 37 I began LCHF because, of course, sugars always made me sick...mentally and physically. If only I knew at that time it was the plant oils I needed to remove!
-Age 42 I began having overbreathing problems. I breathed out too much, especially in cars (now I know I was hyperventilating and the car seats restricted my breathing). I also began using coconut oil and tried fish oils. The coconut oil was too strong for me, causing constipation and tense stomach muscles. I have never tested positive for hypothyroidism (which I know now was completely wrong!), but I continued to become more delicate and sicker physically as I aged. But really I want to focus on the fish oils and the apparent damage they've done to my brain. When I took them I would get very dark and depressed and more DP'd, so I stopped (at the time).
-Age 45 was another 'banner' year for me. I lost everything (job, money, home, daughter [we had to move to separate residences far away], life!) when my breathing problem turned into full blown hyperventilation syndrome. I lost 40 pounds in 4 months literally living on a couch cause moving messed with my breathing. Fear engulfed me cause I had no idea what was wrong with me. I did learn I had a bad case of silent reflux, which affects breathing. I also had (have) a beaten up nervous system and a lifetime of gut bloating, so the problem is definitely multi-causational. I got up occassionally when I had to, but had to go on STD, then lost my good job. Couldn't drive, cook, or anything. (I should mention I was able to work PT again a year later, and started FT 3 months ago. Yah!) You just learn how to manage your breathing...and learn you're not going to die.
So in all my good efforts to heal my breathing I tried eating smoked salmon (I hate fish) and a whole slew of vits and mins and herbs, etc. The problem was they (almost) all would make me depressed and angry and cry a few hours later. I have stopped taking most, since my boyfriend...and I...can't deal with my moods anymore. The herbs and minerals are always worse. I'm convinced they are removing heavy metals from my brain, and this is why I can't even tolerate much cilantro without becoming practically suicidal.
-Age 50 after many starts and stops of supplements, BUT ALSO CONSUMING ALOT OF G.F. BUTTER AND MEATS AND FARM EGGS and some salmon, I started losing my ability to remember what common things are called. I know this is the beginning of dementia Alzheimer's. All my waking hours have also become very dark and depressed, instead of just when I take a supplement, etc. I have been cutting back on the Omega 3 products (and glutamate) the last 6 months, and mood and memory have improved some.
-Age 52 began Peating 2 months ago. Relief for my brain and body has begun! I no longer have that almost suicidal 3:00 thought about my life. Thank you Ray Peat! Sugar and coffee and orange juice and milk and marshmallows and jello have never tasted so good! It's such a relief to go lowfat and highcarb instead...I wasn't barely even enjoying animal fat anymore the last year. Should have listened to my body. Lesson finally learned!

Sorry this is such a long post. Hopefully it was kinda interesting so far?!?

What has always been wrong with my brain, I believe, is my exposures as a little girl to pesticides. I lived on a parkway and loved to play outside. I also swam alot as a child (and drank city water), and all that chlorine exposure messed with my gut flora. Because of the chemicals, gluten and vegetable oils are major players, of course, and maybe even casein. My mom cooked all our food from scratch but used cooking oil and shortening, although butter was used mostly. Not alot of junkfood in our house, but I had my share of chips as I hit teenagedom. Then away to college w drinking and cafeteria food, etc. I think my DP was the result of waitressing at a Mexican restaurant for 3 years...all the chips and salsa I could eat. Vegetable oils, corn, and MSG...the final blows! Oh my aching blood sugar and thyroid! Icm sure those delicious margaritas didn't help either.

Lately my brain can get very very tired, like drugged, when I eat smoked salmon, alot of sugar, and do vagus nerve stimulation exercises. Now I know the Omega 3s are bad, the sugar is good, and I don't know about the exercises. I've also had ALOT of cortisol brain damage from a lifetime of mental and LC stress. Oy!
This is the only place on the web stating that Omega 3s are bad. Can anyone tell me what they did to my brain?

Thanks for listenining and maybe replying!

 

[Trix]

My poor brain has been beat up my whole life...and it's been 52 years! My history...

-I was formula fed. (Great start, hey?) Anxiety/shyness/fearfullness as far back as I can remember. But, when around people that I felt comfortable with I loved to talk. My brain seemed to never shut off, although I loved my studies and did well in school, so didn't have much as far as focus problems. (I eventually got a degree in nutrition) I have also had stomach aches and low motility since beginning school, and I now know that gut and brain health are completely related. Also a lifetime of hypoglycemia w 3:00 headaches.
-Early teens began increased fear, self-consciousness, and panic attacks. My brain continued 'to have a mind of it's own' and I always had to be distracted by friends or television or music or I would get nervous. GAD.
-Age 25 rather depressed...no focus or direction in my life. I got pregnant, which brought on my first big mental problem. I didn't take a PG vit-min (can't swallow pills), and learned that was a very bad idea. At around 4 months my brain 'cracked' and suddenly nothing would shut it up...and fear ruled my world. I dealt with the non-stop obsessive fears for 6 years...then my brain really cracked!
-Age 31 my completely exhausted mind finally went into a world of depersonalization, and it hasn't come back since. It was a living hell the first 5 years...now it's just a living nightmare as anhedia (sp?) set in. I have managed to learn how to look past it and sorta pretend I'm living a normal existence, so life has gone on and so have I. Since removing most (I still eat out occassionally) plant oils and replacing with grassfed organic butter, etc. for the past 4 years I know I'm doing better, mentally and physically. But here's the catch...
-Age 37 I began LCHF because, of course, sugars always made me sick...mentally and physically. If only I knew at that time it was the plant oils I needed to remove!
-Age 42 I began having overbreathing problems. I breathed out too much, especially in cars (now I know I was hyperventilating and the car seats restricted my breathing). I also began using coconut oil and tried fish oils. The coconut oil was too strong for me, causing constipation and tense stomach muscles. I have never tested positive for hypothyroidism (which I know now was completely wrong!), but I continued to become more delicate and sicker physically as I aged. But really I want to focus on the fish oils and the apparent damage they've done to my brain. When I took them I would get very dark and depressed and more DP'd, so I stopped (at the time).
-Age 45 was another 'banner' year for me. I lost everything (job, money, home, daughter [we had to move to separate residences far away], life!) when my breathing problem turned into full blown hyperventilation syndrome. I lost 40 pounds in 4 months literally living on a couch cause moving messed with my breathing. Fear engulfed me cause I had no idea what was wrong with me. I did learn I had a bad case of silent reflux, which affects breathing. I also had (have) a beaten up nervous system and a lifetime of gut bloating, so the problem is definitely multi-causational. I got up occassionally when I had to, but had to go on STD, then lost my good job. Couldn't drive, cook, or anything. (I should mention I was able to work PT again a year later, and started FT 3 months ago. Yah!) You just learn how to manage your breathing...and learn you're not going to die.
So in all my good efforts to heal my breathing I tried eating smoked salmon (I hate fish) and a whole slew of vits and mins and herbs, etc. The problem was they (almost) all would make me depressed and angry and cry a few hours later. I have stopped taking most, since my boyfriend...and I...can't deal with my moods anymore. The herbs and minerals are always worse. I'm convinced they are removing heavy metals from my brain, and this is why I can't even tolerate much cilantro without becoming practically suicidal.
-Age 50 after many starts and stops of supplements, BUT ALSO CONSUMING ALOT OF G.F. BUTTER AND MEATS AND FARM EGGS and some salmon, I started losing my ability to remember what common things are called. I know this is the beginning of dementia Alzheimer's. All my waking hours have also become very dark and depressed, instead of just when I take a supplement, etc. I have been cutting back on the Omega 3 products (and glutamate) the last 6 months, and mood and memory have improved some.
-Age 52 began Peating 2 months ago. Relief for my brain and body has begun! I no longer have that almost suicidal 3:00 thought about my life. Thank you Ray Peat! Sugar and coffee and orange juice and milk and marshmallows and jello have never tasted so good! It's such a relief to go lowfat and highcarb instead...I wasn't barely even enjoying animal fat anymore the last year. Should have listened to my body. Lesson finally learned!

Sorry this is such a long post. Hopefully it was kinda interesting so far?!?

What has always been wrong with my brain, I believe, is my exposures as a little girl to pesticides. I lived on a parkway and loved to play outside. I also swam alot as a child (and drank city water), and all that chlorine exposure messed with my gut flora. Because of the chemicals, gluten and vegetable oils are major players, of course, and maybe even casein. My mom cooked all our food from scratch but used cooking oil and shortening, although butter was used mostly. Not alot of junkfood in our house, but I had my share of chips as I hit teenagedom. Then away to college w drinking and cafeteria food, etc. I think my DP was the result of waitressing at a Mexican restaurant for 3 years...all the chips and salsa I could eat. Vegetable oils, corn, and MSG...the final blows! Oh my aching blood sugar and thyroid! Icm sure those delicious margaritas didn't help either.

Lately my brain can get very very tired, like drugged, when I eat smoked salmon, alot of sugar, and do vagus nerve stimulation exercises. Now I know the Omega 3s are bad, the sugar is good, and I don't know about the exercises. I've also had ALOT of cortisol brain damage from a lifetime of mental and LC stress. Oy!
This is the only place on the web stating that Omega 3s are bad. Can anyone tell me what they did to my brain?

Thanks for listenining and maybe replying!

Mmm, I have been studying B1 Thiamine since early January and feel this could be something to look into. When reading your post, it sure resonated with what I have been studying. You could read about it in Pubmed....just put thiamine deficiency and whatever issue you are wanting to address and see what comes up. I definitely think it would be worthwhile for you to investigate. When you mentioned the vagus nerve, and when you were exposed to pesticides, chlorine, stress, these could have depleted you of B1 and it affects the nervous system big time. Allithiamine (Ecological Formulas brand) crosses the blood brain barrier and the Benfotiamine (LE brand) addresses the sugar handling issues, both are fat soluble B1....broken down versions. These are the ones I have experimented with and have benefited greatly.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Mmm, I have been studying B1 Thiamine since early January and feel this could be something to look into. When reading your post, it sure resonated with what I have been studying. You could read about it in Pubmed....just put thiamine deficiency and whatever issue you are wanting to address and see what comes up. I definitely think it would be worthwhile for you to investigate. When you mentioned the vagus nerve, and when you were exposed to pesticides, chlorine, stress, these could have depleted you of B1 and it affects the nervous system big time. Allithiamine (Ecological Formulas brand) crosses the blood brain barrier and the Benfotiamine (LE brand) addresses the sugar handling issues, both are fat soluble B1....broken down versions. These are the ones I have experimented with and have benefited greatly.

Thank you Trix! B vitamins have helped me very much in the past, but only after years of suffering and continually getting worse. I am not very consistent with supplements as they usually turn on me pretty quick nowadays. Niacinamide brought on a very scary hyperventilation episode a couple weeks ago...less than 50mg. I am taking thiamine too here and there cause it messes with my mind, like all supplements, but I strongly believe in it.

Yes, I am a tough case. I think I mentioned that I know I have to get off gluten and heal my gut. This is priority 1 now!

 

[Giraffe]

I have tried drinking it since I began Peating, but get acid reflux, even from organic decaf.

I wonder if a little bit of baking soda would help. I add it to coffee once in a while (very little), it makes the coffee taste sweet.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

I wonder if a little bit of baking soda would help. I add it to coffee once in a while (very little), it makes the coffee taste sweet.

Thanks Giraffe!
I'm sitting here starting to get overheated and I just really remembered why I stopped drinking it. It makes me hot! I just had a little bit cause it's the weekend. It's the orange juice and milk that gives me acid reflux (baking soda and lactase have helped with that) ...and the coffee makes me overheated (and so does alcohol). Since I started Peating I've come to understand it's a stress response...probably stems from a fatty liver...and maybe even a histamine response. Something else I've been meaning to post about...

 

[Giraffe]

...and the coffee makes me overheated (and so does alcohol). Since I started Peating I've come to understand it's a stress response...probably stems from a fatty liver...

Is the heat the only symptom you have?

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Thanks for asking Giraffe!

When it happened at work, which is somewhat physical and warm environment, I would get ...qu'est que c'est...unbelievably stinky! I would also get very depressed and have very negative thoughts around late afternoon. I figured it was just my angry liver detoxing...for a couple years! It was suggested to me at a health food store that getting overheated could be an allergy/histamine reaction. And now I know that I've had histamine symptoms lurking in the background (24 hour headache, sinusitis) for many years. I also realize that stress from 15 years HFLC has alot to do with it. I have orthostatic hypotension.

I've been meaning to ask if there was anyone on the forum who counsels professionally? I've been sick for over 50 years, and was getting sicker until I came here. I would love to just unload on someone who maybe could get to the bottom of all this mess.

 

[Trix]

Thanks for asking Giraffe!

When it happened at work, which is somewhat physical and warm environment, I would get ...qu'est que c'est...unbelievably stinky! I would also get very depressed and have very negative thoughts around late afternoon. I figured it was just my angry liver detoxing...for a couple years! It was suggested to me at a health food store that getting overheated could be an allergy/histamine reaction. And now I know that I've had histamine symptoms lurking in the background (24 hour headache, sinusitis) for many years. I also realize that stress from 15 years HFLC has alot to do with it. I have orthostatic hypotension.

I've been meaning to ask if there was anyone on the forum who counsels professionally? I've been sick for over 50 years, and was getting sicker until I came here. I would love to just unload on someone who maybe could get to the bottom of all this mess.

OK, have you tried Allithiamine or Benfotiamine yet? These are broken down fat soluble B1 supplements. The hyperventalaing, orthostatic hypotension, headaches are all related to Thiamine deficiency. I think Ray says it is estrogen related, which I agree, but it is related to low CO2 and oxygen deprivation when insulted with chemicals that the liver is not able to detoxify fast enough. Swelling in the brain or edema anywhere in the body can be relieved by Thiamine repletion. And while you are at it, look into B6 (P5P) and B2 (R5P) as these are needed for the liver to detoxify estrogen along with good protein of course. I have had these issues too so you are not alone.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

OK, have you tried Allithiamine or Benfotiamine yet? These are broken down fat soluble B1 supplements. The hyperventalaing, orthostatic hypotension, headaches are all related to Thiamine deficiency. I think Ray says it is estrogen related, which I agree, but it is related to low CO2 and oxygen deprivation when insulted with chemicals that the liver is not able to detoxify fast enough. Swelling in the brain or edema anywhere in the body can be relieved by Thiamine repletion. And while you are at it, look into B6 (P5P) and B2 (R5P) as these are needed for the liver to detoxify estrogen along with good protein of course. I have had these issues too so you are not alone.

Trix, you're telling me I have Beri Beri??? That is insane. I learned all about that 25 years ago in nutrition school...a very serious deficiency natives got that could be fatal! But the way I feel it could actually make sense. Wow! God Bless you for helping.

Monday morning I am calling the doctor for a test. I actually took a little thiamine earlier...just bought some. Then I took a little nap. I took a little more now. But you're saying I should get the fat soluble kind? Is it a prescription?

Poor liver detox...I was very suspicious of that! My back has gotten itchier than ever the past 4 years. Does that explain the 'smell'? What about diet...any special foods that are Peat friendly that particularly helped you? Coffee (which overheats me)? Liver and farm eggs? I have even eaten alot of chicken liver this week...a pound of leftover pate from Easter.

I was taking nutritional yeast the last year, but stopped a couple months ago when I discovered all the glutamate and aspartate(?) it contains. This isn't the first time I've have had a serious B vitamin deficiency! 15 years ago I happened to take biotin as someone suggested for RLS, and it ended up being what I desperately needed mentally. (This was after taking Paxil for a few months...depletes the Bs) I was so irritable that I had up and quit my job without having another to back it up! Within 3 days of starting biotin my irritability was gone! Ever since then I have usually taken a B complex with extra biotin. But I kinda got away from it like 5 years ago. I've also been doing alot of unbalanced breathing since then. Low CO2 is definitely a concern for me. Actually taking the B complex...and using my rebounder regularly...used to keep my overbreathing problem at bay. Then one day 7 years ago I lost it...full blown hyperventilation syndrome!

Swelling in the brain. Yup...that would explain my mental state the last four years...and the online quest ever since that has finally gotten me here! How long did it take to bring your thiamine levels up?

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

@Trix I read all your posts on the forum and see that you've tried to tell me about thiamine THREE different times! Thanks for your persistence!!! Yup, brain inflammation it is! I was definitely suspicious of hepatic encephalopathy...guess I was right. Beriberi...how scary! I read all the articles you posted. It helped me know better how to talk to the doctor and what tests to ask for.

I've already answered my own question about the supplements you recommend...they're not prescription. So never mind that.

I've got my work cut out for me...make MD appt, add thiamine to my daily supps, order Allithiamine, and write out symptoms/questions for doc. How about foods I can add?

Thanks again Trix! You're awesome!

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

@Trix A few more thoughts/questions

Do you know why thiamine causes hyperventilation? As you know this has been a 7 yr nightmare for me!

Besides coffee and alcohol, coconut oil and lard also make me overheated. My body really doesn't seem to like it...I used to cook with it. I do also have gallstones...probably no surprise here. I have little of those symptoms now since avoiding PUFAs.

Did you know that the name Beri Beri comes some tribal language? It means "I can't, I cant", referring to the loss of muscle coordination in extreme cases.

 

[PakPik]

Good day, @Mmmaurshmallows :)

I'm really intrigued that you react so strongly to basically all supplements. I've been thinking it may be due to the fillers. There's a scientist out there, specialized in inflammation, allergies and so on, that was talking about a recent paper showing that about 60% of reactions to drugs are due to the fillers, not the actual drugs.

So, do your supplements cointain bad stuff like silicon dioxide, titanium dioxide, magnesium stereate, dyes, microcristalline celullose (sp?), lecithin, and so on? If so, you can be reacting to the fillers, not the supps. Peat stresses those substances are extremely harmful to the body. Have you checked www.toxinless.com by the forum member Dan Wich? He has lists of the cleanest, Peaty supplements you can find. I only buy supplements that have starch as their filler, noting else.

 

[Trix]

Mmm, Get Benfotiamine also, mainly because it helps with sugar regulation. I have not tried B1 Thiamine myself, mainly because I already know I do not break them down to the active form very well, and do not absorb them well. All I can tell you that what I have experimented with, I have only had positive results. So maybe the hyperventilation is caused because the regular B vitamins are stressful to you because you might not break them down to their active form. I do not take a B complex because they would give me a rough time, like hyperventilation, stomach upset, headache, dizzy. The complexes seem to have some regular vitamins and broken down (coenzymated) so I avoid at this time.

Yes, I did know that it is name was I can't I can't....I couldn't I couldn't, but after starting the broken down versions, now I can!

If you go to Pubmed, register you name, put in the search engine, Thiamine Deficiency and anything you are dealing with, there would be plenty that comes up. Then you could mark it as a favorite, or actually name a folder B1 and as you read them, you can save them in Pubmed. I sometimes need to go back and re-read to let it sink in more. Yesterday, I put in Thiamine Deficiency and stress...102 studies came up. Now most of these are abstracts, but you will get a bigger picture of what Thiamine does. A lot of these studies are from 1960 ish to current. A lot of the studies are alcohol related, but I do not partake. How in the world could I be deficient???? Never would have thought it. Look up Costintini from Italy while in Pubmed. He has a study with 3 patients who got their life back in days with Fibromyalgia and his nurse I believe had IBD for 20 years, after one or two injections, remission. He also treats Parkinson's Disease with Thiamine...no tremors, gait issues gone, no canes or wheelchairs within days. That video is in Italian with English subtitles. Do not think that is in Pubmed.

I think Danny Roddy and Haidut discussed thiamine on one of their interviews maybe in Nov last year and I decided to buy some Benfotiamine. In Dec taking 100mg breakfast lunch and dinner. In Jan 2016 I read the website of Lonsdale, O2 Spark of Life....you might have to google the correct site. I think someone posted it on the facebook group RPInspired. I might have read 5 posts before I went to google Allithiamine...ordered it, and two days later I took one with dinner along with all the other Benfotiamine. The next day it was like a miracle. Now, I do not think everyone will benefit as I have, but your symptoms are very similar to mine. I do think the base of the brain gets compressed somehow, probably Thiamine deficient, and the body cannot do the basic things to keep the nervous system stable. I think magnesium is involdved also, I just think how I have always had tight shoulder and neck. I was rear ended several years ago at 45 mph, so that could have been the cause. Who knows. Lonsdale says sugar is the culprit. I am thinking starches are the culprit, however, I haven't had gluten much in 4 years, and I never eat brown rice, do not eat the enriched grains either. I did not recover well after gall bladder surgery, probably the anathesia, that depletes Thiamine, so there is a plethora of reasons why someone could find themselves deficient...thank the Good Lord we do not have to run to the doctor to get the vitamin! Lonsdale also says for testing, you need the transketalose transporter test....only one lab in the US????? Wondering why this is???

If Inflammatory Bowel Disease, Crohns Disease, Parkinson's Disease, Alzheimer's Disease, Dementia, Heart Disease, Hearing Loss, Diabetes, Encephalitis of all sorts, Fibromyalgia, Multiple Sclerosis, ALS, Autism, ADHD, OCD, POTS, Eye Disease, Kidney Disease, Diabetic Neuropathy, Thyroid issues, etc. respond to Thiamine, then some of us have to experiment and get our health back. At least hopeful.

 

[Trix]

Mmm,
I found this study on the page of TD and stress:
J Neurosci Res. 2005 Jan 1-15;79(1-2):200-7.
Downregulation of complexin I and complexin II in the medial thalamus is blocked by N-acetylcysteine in experimental Wernicke's encephalopathy.
Hazell AS1, Wang C.
Author information

• 1Department of Medicine, Hôpital Saint-Luc (CHUM), University of Montreal, 1058 Saint-Denis Street, Montreal, Quebec H2X 3J4, Canada. [email protected]

Abstract
Metabolic dysfunction as a consequence of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency (TD), a model of Wernicke's encephalopathy, leads to elevation of extracellular glutamate concentration in vulnerable brain regions consistent with the development of excitotoxicity. Complexin I and complexin II are two genes labeling principally inhibitory and excitatory synapses, respectively. Because current evidence supports an important role for complexins in the modulation of neurotransmitter release, we examined the involvement of both proteins in the pathology of the medial thalamus and inferior colliculus in TD rats by immunoblotting. At the symptomatic stage, complexin I and complexin II levels in the medial thalamus were decreased by 63% and 45%, respectively, compared to control animals, but were unchanged in the inferior colliculus. These changes in thalamus were also observed using immunohistochemical methods, and seemed to be due to downregulation of both proteins because synaptophysin levels were unaffected in this brain region. In addition, cotreatment with the antioxidant N- acetylcysteine prevented both neuronal loss and downregulation of complexins. Our findings suggest dysregulation of excitatory and inhibitory neurotransmitter release in the medial thalamus, which is not present in the inferior colliculus. Furthermore, loss of complexin I and II in the thalamus may be mediated by processes that involve oxidative stress. Such changes in complexin levels may contribute to the pathophysiology of thalamic damage in TD, and offer a potential basis for the well-known differences in pathology between this structure and the inferior colliculus in this disorder.

(c) 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID:
15573404
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Trix]

Mmm,
You mentioned histamine....

Selective response of various brain cell types during neurodegeneration induced by mild impairment of oxidative metabolism. - PubMed - NCBI
Loss of neurons and elevation in markers of neurodegeneration are accompanied by changes in microglia including increased redox active iron, the induction of nitric oxide synthase (NOS) and hemeoxygenase-1, a marker of oxidative stress. Endothelial cells also show changes in early stages of TD including induction of intracellular adhesion molecule-1 (ICAM-1) and endothelial NOS. The number of degranulating mast cells also increases in early stages of TD.

Increased mast cell degranulation within thalamus in early pre-lesion stages of an experimental model of Wernicke's encephalopathy. - PubMed - NCBI
similar mast cells degranulating in early TD

Mast cell interactions with the nervous system: relationship to mechanisms of disease. - PubMed - NCBI
These cells also produce and react to cytokines, and thus appear to play a role in tissue degeneration as well as repair. In certain neurological diseases, i.e. multiple sclerosis and Guillain-Barré syndrome, the ability of mast cell proteases to degrade specific myelin proteins suggests that these cells are agents, rather than bystanders, in the demyelinative process. Even more intriguing is their recently identified capacity to process bacterial antigen as efficiently as activated macrophages, suggesting that a more critical role than previously suspected might be considered for mast cells in CNS and PNS demyelination. In experimental metabolic disorders such as galactose intoxication and thiamine deficiency, mast cells appear to play a pathogenic role. Thus, in galactose intoxication, altered BNB vascular permeability occurs in conjunction with mast cell proliferation and degranulation, while in thiamine deficiency, increased histamine levels have been reported in the rat thalamus (79) and are associated with cell death and proliferation as well as mast cell degranulation (Powell and Langlais, unpublished observations).

 

[Trix]

Science. 1946 Apr 12;103(2676):441-5.
Thiamine Deficiency and High Estrogen Findings in Uterine Cancer and in Menorrhagia.
Ayre JE, Bauld WA.
Abstract
The finding of abnormal estrogenic activity coupled with thiamine deficiency in cases of menorrhagia and uterine cancer suggests a possible etiological correlation between the dietary deficiency, the abnormal estrogen level, and the pathological lesion. The specific element deficient in these cases was thiamine, while the other B factors were normal. Preliminary report of the evidence is made in this small series while more extensive studies on a large series of cases are being pursued. Cornification in cytology smears was used to study estrogenic activity, since the present study was prompted by cytological findings; the method is simple, practical, and reasonably accurate. The urinary estimation measures only the amount excreted, and if liver impairment actually is present, the quantity excreted would not give a true index of the amount retained in the body. Further studies are being undertaken in which estrogenic, urinary, and cornification levels are being compared before and after thiamine administration in cases proven to be deficient.

PMID:
17754352
[PubMed]

 

[Trix]

Trix, you're telling me I have Beri Beri??? That is insane. I learned all about that 25 years ago in nutrition school...a very serious deficiency natives got that could be fatal! But the way I feel it could actually make sense. Wow! God Bless you for helping.

Monday morning I am calling the doctor for a test. I actually took a little thiamine earlier...just bought some. Then I took a little nap. I took a little more now. But you're saying I should get the fat soluble kind? Is it a prescription?

Poor liver detox...I was very suspicious of that! My back has gotten itchier than ever the past 4 years. Does that explain the 'smell'? What about diet...any special foods that are Peat friendly that particularly helped you? Coffee (which overheats me)? Liver and farm eggs? I have even eaten alot of chicken liver this week...a pound of leftover pate from Easter.

I was taking nutritional yeast the last year, but stopped a couple months ago when I discovered all the glutamate and aspartate(?) it contains. This isn't the first time I've have had a serious B vitamin deficiency! 15 years ago I happened to take biotin as someone suggested for RLS, and it ended up being what I desperately needed mentally. (This was after taking Paxil for a few months...depletes the Bs) I was so irritable that I had up and quit my job without having another to back it up! Within 3 days of starting biotin my irritability was gone! Ever since then I have usually taken a B complex with extra biotin. But I kinda got away from it like 5 years ago. I've also been doing alot of unbalanced breathing since then. Low CO2 is definitely a concern for me. Actually taking the B complex...and using my rebounder regularly...used to keep my overbreathing problem at bay. Then one day 7 years ago I lost it...full blown hyperventilation syndrome!

Swelling in the brain. Yup...that would explain my mental state the last four years...and the online quest ever since that has finally gotten me here! How long did it take to bring your thiamine levels up?

*Chris Masterjohn, PhD says that some people need to eat liver more than the next person. I eat calves liver weekly. I would lower the histamine foods until you get more Thiamine replete. I wouldn't stress about it though, as another restriction will deplete you of something else. I think Lonsdale says magnesium works in concert with thiamine...do you take epsom salt baths? I take at least 2 per week along with baking soda added in. Are you asking about 'smell' as things bother you? I think it is the congested liver. I think what Haidut says about taking Niacinamide for a month in higher dose or taking extra caffeine would help to clear the liver. Just do not know how fast.

*Someone told me that Allithiamine or Benfotiamine would make me smell like garlic. I have not had any issues at all regarding that. So maybe it clears the liver too. I have not put that into pubmed yet.:)

*I think Biotin is necessary also as I've read many Thiamine/Biotin studies relating to brain issues. Do you carry a brown lunch bag with you? I have one in my car, by my desk, by my bed, in my suitcase. You never know when the insults will hit. Hotels are the worse, hugging people, insurance men, small offices, mold, cleaning chemicals. A couple of months ago it was not good, but I actually feel the thiamine has helped tremendously. One night about a week ago, I took several things before bed, maybe too many things, I was feeling I was breathing fast when I got in bed. I put the sheet over my head and consciously slowed my breathing, within a couple minutes I was good. The paper bag makes noise, the sheet doesn't!

*I have read it takes six months to get replete. Taking Allithiamine since Jan, so 3 months, but along the way I have seen benefits. Another one is being able to walk again in my neighborhood. That only has been 3 weeks. I have not pushed myself, so I am only walking 30 minutes. I used to dread walking 20 minutes, I was slow and got winded. Now I can walk much faster without getting winded!
Gosh, I have not posted much since I've been a member here, so not sure how this will look, but I put in a emoji! Learn something new every day!

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

@PakPik Thanks for inquiring about my supplements. Just wanted you to know that I have read and thought about what you said and will reply tonight after work!

@Trix Wow...lots of information to take in, which I have read a few times. I will reply tonight as I gotta get to work. Interesting about needing more liver cause I could have eaten that whole pound every day...but I hold back cause it's such powerful stuff. Must be really great for my body now! Thanks for all your help!

 

[tara]

Gosh, I have not posted much since I've been a member here, so not sure how this will look, but I put in a emoji! Learn something new every day!

Good stuff. :)

Interesting about needing more liver cause I could have eaten that whole pound every day

Nothing like having an appetite. :)

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Good day, @Mmmaurshmallows :)

I'm really intrigued that you react so strongly to basically all supplements. I've been thinking it may be due to the fillers. There's a scientist out there, specialized in inflammation, allergies and so on, that was talking about a recent paper showing that about 60% of reactions to drugs are due to the fillers, not the actual drugs.

So, do your supplements cointain bad stuff like silicon dioxide, titanium dioxide, magnesium stereate, dyes, microcristalline celullose (sp?), lecithin, and so on? If so, you can be reacting to the fillers, not the supps. Peat stresses those substances are extremely harmful to the body. Have you checked www.toxinless.com by the forum member Dan Wich? He has lists of the cleanest, Peaty supplements you can find. I only buy supplements that have starch as their filler, noting else.

Interesting thought PakPik. My first thought is that it's not the fillers that are a problem though, because I have reacted to many foods and herbs too...not just supplements, just some things from my kitchen that offer good health benefits. I'm not ruling out this idea, of course. Obviously there's some mystery here to solve. It could have to do with my liver, and poor detoxification. Tomorrow I have a MD appointment and I'm going to go for it...liver, pancreas, etc. testing. I'll keep you posted! Thanks Hon!