What Are Your Thoughts On Omega 3s?

[Hgreen56]

Why Fish Oil Fails

 

[Homo Consumericus]

From the link above, apparently Peat likes trout which is not richest in n3s but not poorest either. Has we could say a medium level (500-1000mg per 100 grams).

To anyone with well-rounded nutrition knowledge, it makes plenty of sense to eat fish and shellfish, but not much sense to eat seeds and seed oils since we can get a fair bit of PUFA from foods that are primarily sources of saturated and monounsaturated fat.

 

[Cloudhands]

@Amazoniac @zarrin77 do your opinions differ from dr peats?

 

[zarrin77]

@Amazoniac @zarrin77 do your opinions differ from dr peats?

Yes, imo there is too much positive research on omega 3s to just completely ignore it and say “it is all bad”.

I could post literally over 100 positive, well-done studies on flaxseed oil alone. I’m actually more of a fan of flaxseed oil than fish oil, becuase it oxidizes less easily, and when it does, it can get converted into *anti-inflammatory* oxylipins easily (while also reducing pro-inflammatory oxylipins). Also the long-chain omega 3s act more like cortisol, slowing the time it takes for wounds to heal, for example. Flaxseed oil generally facilitates things like wound healing.

There have also been more than one well-controlled human study that has shown that ONLY flaxseed supplementation (and NOT a low fat diet) improves progonsis for prostate cancer. Long chain omega 3s have sometimes been shown to make prostate cancer worse.

I’m not a fan of mega-dosing omega 3s, but they definitely have a purpose.

btw, my chronic tendonitis issues (multiple places) finally went away when I started supplementing with flaxseed oil. Kinda makes sense based on this:
Dietary Flaxseed Mitigates Impaired Skeletal Muscle Regeneration: in Vivo, in Vitro and in Silico Studies

Again, if you guys want references, I can start spamming all the links of the studies, including ones showing that flaxseed oil supplementation *reduced* lipid oxidation markers like MDA (not all show this, but some do). Again, dose and context is going to be important. I’m not saying to guzzle PUFAs. And I still stay completely away from omega 6 based oils.

 

[Cloudhands]

Yes, imo there is too much positive research on omega 3s to just completely ignore it and say “it is all bad”.

I could post literally over 100 positive, well-done studies on flaxseed oil alone. I’m actually more of a fan of flaxseed oil than fish oil, becuase it oxidizes less easily, and when it does, it can get converted into *anti-inflammatory* oxylipins easily (while also reducing pro-inflammatory oxylipins). Also the long-chain omega 3s act more like cortisol, slowing the time it takes for wounds to heal, for example. Flaxseed oil generally facilitates things like wound healing.

There have also been more than one well-controlled human study that has shown that ONLY flaxseed supplementation (and NOT a low fat diet) improves progonsis for prostate cancer. Long chain omega 3s have sometimes been shown to make prostate cancer worse.

I’m not a fan of mega-dosing omega 3s, but they definitely have a purpose.

btw, my chronic tendonitis issues (multiple places) finally went away when I started supplementing with flaxseed oil. Kinda makes sense based on this:
Dietary Flaxseed Mitigates Impaired Skeletal Muscle Regeneration: in Vivo, in Vitro and in Silico Studies

Again, if you guys want references, I can start spamming all the links of the studies, including ones showing that flaxseed oil supplementation *reduced* lipid oxidation markers like MDA (not all show this, but some do). Again, dose and context is going to be important. I’m not saying to guzzle PUFAs. And I still stay completely away from omega 6 based oils.

Nice follow up, greatly appreciated. I was using flax oil a few years back and i was also in the best shape ive ever been in, wonder if theres any correlation. How much do you use daily? Im gonna have to do more research

 

[Spartan300]

Interesting discussion. So many people here, myself included have sleep issues they are trying to fix.

Studies shown sleep improves if low DHA levels are corrected and a quick search or two reveals that omega 3 EFA are involved in melatonin production.

Also shown to increase protein synthesis/anabolism?

 

[zarrin77]

We tend to read in vitro research here and then wrongly extrapolate it to in vivo.

Here is an example, flaxseed oil increases T3 and lowers body fat compared to beef tallow:

Effects of dietary n-3 fatty acids in fat metabolism and thyroid hormone levels when compared to dietary saturated fatty acids in chickens | Request PDF

Definitely not an insignificant increase in T3.

Plus, high saturated fat diets have been shown to actually damage the thyroid:

Dietary high-fat lard intake induces thyroid dysfunction and abnormal morphology in rats

“The thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats exhibited enlarged follicle cavities and flattened follicular epithelial cells under light microscopy, and dilated endoplasmic reticulum cisternae, twisted nuclei, fewer microvilli and secretory vesicles under transmission electron microscopy. Furthermore, the thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats showed markedly low levels of thyroid hormone synthesis-related proteins TTF-1 and NIS. Acute dietary modification by withdrawal of the high-fat lard diet for 6 weeks failed to ameliorate the high-fat lard diet-induced thyroid changes.”

I am not anti-Peat, I think he has some good idea. It’s just that people tend to be very “extremist” here. Once there is an idea about something being anti-thyroid (even due to in-vitro research), it catches fire and everyone runs with it.

I am not here to spread an agenda. I am only trying to find truth.

 

[johnwester130]

I would advise for a O6:O3 Ratio of 1:1.I concluded that the Ratio matters,total amount very much also . Omega 6 PUFA would be mainly Linoleic Acid and Arachidonic Acid.Omega 3 PUFA would be mainly Alpha Linolenic Acid and EPA.
Foodchoices would be softboiled Eggs for LA,Flaxseed Oil for ALA and resultant EPA,under nitrogen-atmosphere pressed,highest quality and so on.Fish for DHA(obligatory for males imo,but americans have more high-quality,grass-fed Animal produce,Europeans with grain based Animalchow etc have to be way more careful about said Ratio.
If so inclined,I would raise ALA:LA Ratio from all sources to 1:1,e.g. 5g of ALA,5g of LA,then reducing again to 3g of each for a couple of months,and see whats what.
Important Q:how much and what PUFA do you consume now?

Could a 0:0 ratio be attained ?

My only fat is dairy and coconut oil.

 

[zarrin77]

Here is another example. Flaxseed oil can protect the brain at a HED of 1 tbsp per day:

Notice the REDUCTION in lipid peroxidation levels.

We can’t think so simplistically that just becuase it is PUFA that automatically means more lipid peroxidation. Yes, that normally occurs with the long chain PUFA, but not necessarily the parent EFAs (like linolenic acid). If the cell is able to work more effectively and increase its antioxidant defense system (which has been shown for flaxseed oil), then there very well can be a reduction in lipid oxidation.

 

[Spartan300]

So many seemingly conflicting studies. Dry skin, poor sleep & exercise intolerance/poor recovery means that I'm interested in trying something that may improve sleep, skin, anabolism & T3.

Quite a lot of reports of estrogenic tendencies from flax seed oil, don't really want to use cod liver oil because purported to be liable to be oxidised and algae omega 3 oils usually have carrageenan........

 

[zarrin77]

So many seemingly conflicting studies. Dry skin, poor sleep & exercise intolerance/poor recovery means that I'm interested in trying something that may improve sleep, skin, anabolism & T3.

Quite a lot of reports of estrogenic tendencies from flax seed oil, don't really want to use cod liver oil because purported to be liable to be oxidised and algae omega 3 oils usually have carrageenan........

The estrogen reports are from the flaxseed oil with the lignans added back in. Just get the lignan-free kind. No estrogen issues to worry about.

Edit: flaxseeds themselves also contain cyanogenic glycosides, which inhibit thyroid function. For thyroid, just use the pure lignan-free oil.

 

[zarrin77]

Effect of Supplementation of Feed With Flaxseed (Linumusitatisimum) Oil on Libido and Semen Quality of Nilli-Ravi Buffalo Bulls - PubMed

Dietary Supplementation With Linseed Oil Improves Semen Quality, Reproductive Hormone, Gene and Protein Expression Related to Testosterone Synthesis in Aging Layer Breeder Roosters - PubMed

Flaxseed Oil Modulates Semen Production and Its Quality Profiles, Freezability, Testicular Biometrics and Endocrinological Profiles in Mithun - PubMed
“Blood FSH, LH, testosterone and thyroxin concentration were significantly (p < 0.05) increased and cortisol concentration was significantly (p < 0.05) decreased in FSO supplemented group than in unsupplemented control group.“

From this last study: (notice how the MDA [lipid oxidation] went down in the treatment group and the glutathione and Total Antioxidant Capacity increased. So much for PUFA = lipid oxidation.)

These are just a handful of studies I know of that show flaxseed oil to be very protective.

 

[Spartan300]

Thanks @zarrin77 I'll take a look at the studies and see what I can find

 

[MatheusPN]

We tend to read in vitro research here and then wrongly extrapolate it to in vivo.

Here is an example, flaxseed oil increases T3 and lowers body fat compared to beef tallow:

Effects of dietary n-3 fatty acids in fat metabolism and thyroid hormone levels when compared to dietary saturated fatty acids in chickens | Request PDF

View attachment 17985

View attachment 17986

Definitely not an insignificant increase in T3.

Plus, high saturated fat diets have been shown to actually damage the thyroid:

Dietary high-fat lard intake induces thyroid dysfunction and abnormal morphology in rats

“The thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats exhibited enlarged follicle cavities and flattened follicular epithelial cells under light microscopy, and dilated endoplasmic reticulum cisternae, twisted nuclei, fewer microvilli and secretory vesicles under transmission electron microscopy. Furthermore, the thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats showed markedly low levels of thyroid hormone synthesis-related proteins TTF-1 and NIS. Acute dietary modification by withdrawal of the high-fat lard diet for 6 weeks failed to ameliorate the high-fat lard diet-induced thyroid changes.”

I am not anti-Peat, I think he has some good idea. It’s just that people tend to be very “extremist” here. Once there is an idea about something being anti-thyroid (even due to in-vitro research), it catches fire and everyone runs with it.

I am not here to spread an agenda. I am only trying to find truth.

From the study "...Animals were separated in individual cages and fed one of the
three experimental diets until day 36 of age..."
Yeah, aiming to find the truth, the more good quality opposition/ different info the better

 

[boris]

Plus, high saturated fat diets have been shown to actually damage the thyroid:

Dietary high-fat lard intake induces thyroid dysfunction and abnormal morphology in rats

“The thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats exhibited enlarged follicle cavities and flattened follicular epithelial cells under light microscopy, and dilated endoplasmic reticulum cisternae, twisted nuclei, fewer microvilli and secretory vesicles under transmission electron microscopy. Furthermore, the thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats showed markedly low levels of thyroid hormone synthesis-related proteins TTF-1 and NIS. Acute dietary modification by withdrawal of the high-fat lard diet for 6 weeks failed to ameliorate the high-fat lard diet-induced thyroid changes.”

I am not anti-Peat, I think he has some good idea. It’s just that people tend to be very “extremist” here. Once there is an idea about something being anti-thyroid (even due to in-vitro research), it catches fire and everyone runs with it.

I am not here to spread an agenda. I am only trying to find truth.

Lard is not saturated fat. What you are seeing are the effects of a high PUFA diet.

/The other group seems to be high in PUFA too since they use standard rat chow. So this is not exactly ANTI peat as you say, since Peat was always a proponent of low fat diets.

 

[Atman]

We tend to read in vitro research here and then wrongly extrapolate it to in vivo.

Here is an example, flaxseed oil increases T3 and lowers body fat compared to beef tallow:

Effects of dietary n-3 fatty acids in fat metabolism and thyroid hormone levels when compared to dietary saturated fatty acids in chickens | Request PDF

View attachment 17985

View attachment 17986

Definitely not an insignificant increase in T3.

Plus, high saturated fat diets have been shown to actually damage the thyroid:

Dietary high-fat lard intake induces thyroid dysfunction and abnormal morphology in rats

“The thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats exhibited enlarged follicle cavities and flattened follicular epithelial cells under light microscopy, and dilated endoplasmic reticulum cisternae, twisted nuclei, fewer microvilli and secretory vesicles under transmission electron microscopy. Furthermore, the thyroid glands from the high-fat lard fed rats showed markedly low levels of thyroid hormone synthesis-related proteins TTF-1 and NIS. Acute dietary modification by withdrawal of the high-fat lard diet for 6 weeks failed to ameliorate the high-fat lard diet-induced thyroid changes.”

I am not anti-Peat, I think he has some good idea. It’s just that people tend to be very “extremist” here. Once there is an idea about something being anti-thyroid (even due to in-vitro research), it catches fire and everyone runs with it.

I am not here to spread an agenda. I am only trying to find truth.

Interesting study.
The difference of thyroid hormone concentration is indeed significant, although one cannot be sure whether in this case a high concentration of T3 is indicative of a high thyroid function (metabolic rate).
Peat writes in "Unsaturated Vegetable Oil: Toxic": "Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its movement in the circulatory system, and the response of tissues to the hormone. "
So one would have to verify that the chickens with the flax seed oil diet had a higher metabolic rate.
The size of the fat pad could be an indicator, however the difference between the tallow and oil group is not really significant and even if it was, one would have to control for the absolute amount of food consumed.
I am not saying this study is meaningless, just trying to find an explanation from Peat's perspective.
Maybe others will chime in.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Could a 0:0 ratio be attained ?

My only fat is dairy and coconut oil.

No,dairy maybe,depending on Worldregion and animalchow given.Coconut is very Omega 6 heavy.

 

[johnwester130]

No,dairy maybe,depending on Worldregion and animalchow given.Coconut is very Omega 6 heavy.

omega 6 in coconut oil ?

 

[Spartan300]

@zarrin77 Do you have a brand in mind that is lignan free?

I'm not seeing lignan free versions. Only ones where ligands are mentioned are stating high lignans.
Or is it safe to assume that if high lignans are not being claimed then they have not been added back in after pressing?

 

[zarrin77]

@zarrin77 Do you have a brand in mind that is lignan free?

I'm not seeing lignan free versions. Only ones where ligands are mentioned are stating high lignans.
Or is it safe to assume that if high lignans are not being claimed then they have not been added back in after pressing?

I use Solgar, Earth Source, Organic Flaxseed oil in the brown glass bottle. It is lignan free.