20 Years Depersonalized. And Now Dementia From Omega 3s, Etc!

[PakPik]

Interesting thought PakPik. My first thought is that it's not the fillers that are a problem though, because I have reacted to many foods and herbs too...not just supplements, just some things from my kitchen that offer good health benefits. I'm not ruling out this idea, of course. Obviously there's some mystery here to solve. It could have to do with my liver, and poor detoxification. Tomorrow I have a MD appointment and I'm going to go for it...liver, pancreas, etc. testing. I'll keep you posted! Thanks Hon!

I hope your appointment goes well! Testing can be very informative, it's good you're doing that. I've been meaning to suggest two tests to you, these are very pervasive inflammatory mediator: one is Tumor Necrosis Factor and the other one is Interleukin-6. These tests are highly recommended by a MD (who happens to be a biologist as well, Dr. Theoharides) specializing in crazy illnesses like ours, chronic allergic kinda stuff, hypersensitivity... I'm sharing these with you because doctors usually test for things like C-Reactive protein to check for inflammation, but this test is not always reliable, it very often comes back very nice and you can have a tremendously bad inflammatory degenerative process. They also order histamine, and often comes back nice. So, one ends up not knowing what's going on. You can read more about this issues here Confused by a negative histamine test result?

 

[Trix]

Mmm,
On PubMed, I put in Thiamine Deficiency and low CO2 and got 630 studies. I know it is related to what is going on with me. I know there will be some studies that will not related but a lot will be. Home - PMC - NCBI

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

I hope your appointment goes well! Testing can be very informative, it's good you're doing that. I've been meaning to suggest two tests to you, these are very pervasive inflammatory mediator: one is Tumor Necrosis Factor and the other one is Interleukin-6. These tests are highly recommended by a MD (who happens to be a biologist as well, Dr. Theoharides) specializing in crazy illnesses like ours, chronic allergic kinda stuff, hypersensitivity... I'm sharing these with you because doctors usually test for things like C-Reactive protein to check for inflammation, but this test is not always reliable, it very often comes back very nice and you can have a tremendously bad inflammatory degenerative process. They also order histamine, and often comes back nice. So, one ends up not knowing what's going on. You can read more about this issues here Confused by a negative histamine test result?

Thank you PakPik! I hope to go back this week for follow up to my blood draw. I will post my results. I believe any further visits will be with G.I. and allergy docs, where I will discuss the tests you mentioned. It's difficult for me to go much further as I can't manage too well everything involved with modern medicine...appointments, tests, drugs, costs. I don't have much support (present company excluded! ), which is why finding my new doc...Dr. Ray Peat...has been so meaningful to me.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Mmm,
On PubMed, I put in Thiamine Deficiency and low CO2 and got 630 studies. I know it is related to what is going on with me. I know there will be some studies that will not related but a lot will be. Home - PMC - NCBI

@PakPik

Thanks Trix for all your support! Like I already said...saw doc this week and will follow up w results soon. Will post. Here's the bad news...
Like I said in my very long brain post...almost everything I take (supps, herbs, superfoods) makes my mind bad...negative thinking, ANGRY, crying, can't concentrate, less cooking/showers/cleaning, etc. Sooooo I took a small amt of thiamine every night the last week, and now mentally I am that negative Nancy again! I am NOT as bad as I was before Peating...just to be clear. Ask my husband...he always knows when I'm taking some supplement. And he always threatens to throw them all away! The Bs have actually been the best thing I've ever taken...practically saved my life a couple times. I am going to order Haidut's B complex formula and try that. I understand that we make the Bs in our gut, and (finally) removing gluten and plant oils is probably the last step I needed to take to begin gut healing. So I have lots of hope in the horizon.

But the question still remains...what is wrong with my brain? I believe the liver enzymes test I'm having will explain some encephalopathy. But I'm sure it's reeeeaaalllyyy been the plant oils allllll allllong!

 

[Trix]

Do you eat a carrot a day with salt CO or Olive Oil, how about charcoal, have you tried that. The gut could be the main issue, as imbalanced bacteria and yeasts. If you have overgrowth of bad bacteria, you probably are not making the B vitamins or vitamin K....of course this is what I've deduced down for myself, not that you are having the same. The Gut and Brain are so connected. Also, I would take the Allithiamine in the morning. You want way more energy in the day than at night, even though it takes energy to sleep. I would also suggest the easiest digestible foods so the body doesn't have to work so hard to digest, more than likely the body might not be able to break everything down. All I can offer at the moment.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Do you eat a carrot a day with salt CO or Olive Oil, how about charcoal, have you tried that. The gut could be the main issue, as imbalanced bacteria and yeasts. If you have overgrowth of bad bacteria, you probably are not making the B vitamins or vitamin K....of course this is what I've deduced down for myself, not that you are having the same. The Gut and Brain are so connected. Also, I would take the Allithiamine in the morning. You want way more energy in the day than at night, even though it takes energy to sleep. I would also suggest the easiest digestible foods so the body doesn't have to work so hard to digest, more than likely the body might not be able to break everything down. All I can offer at the moment.

I completely agree with everything you say...all things I've thought of before. But it's really important and helpful for me to get these reminders. I have often heard in the past how cleansing the bowels can quickly clear up mental problems. I will address that.

I take the thiamine at night because it makes me so tired. (I haven't gotten the allithiamine yet...haven't had time to order supplements.) If I take it during the day I literally have to take a nap. But you get energy from it?!? Any ideas what that's all about????

Thanks Trix!

 

[DaveFoster]

I don't usually say this, but you might be a candidate for high-dose B-vitamin therapy; that's if you don't feel up to snuff already.

What doses do you take right now?

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

I don't usually say this, but you might be a candidate for high-dose B-vitamin therapy; that's if you don't feel up to snuff already.

What doses do you take right now?

Thanks Dave!

I am rather sporadic with supplements, as basically they bother my mind. My husband usually threatens to throw them all away because they put me in a TERRIBLE mood. I've just learned that this may be related to histamine, as I've gotten reactions since beginning Peating a couple months ago. I just know my liver is involved too...waiting to get results from blood test.

Can you tell me more about the therapy, and why you think I could be a candidate? Where have you heard about this? The Bs have actually been pretty tolerable, and have practically saved my life a couple times. I just have gotten away from them the past 5 years for a few reasons (nothing really pertinent).

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks Dave!

I am rather sporadic with supplements, as basically they bother my mind. My husband usually threatens to throw them all away because they put me in a TERRIBLE mood. I've just learned that this may be related to histamine, as I've gotten reactions since beginning Peating a couple months ago. I just know my liver is involved too...waiting to get results from blood test.

Can you tell me more about the therapy, and why you think I could be a candidate? Where have you heard about this? The Bs have actually been pretty tolerable, and have practically saved my life a couple times. I just have gotten away from them the past 5 years for a few reasons (nothing really pertinent).

Haidut has posted quite a few studies on niacinamide helping schizophrenia IIRC, as well as niacinamide, thiamine, and biotin restoring glucose metabolism, which staves off diabetes, which is closely related to Alzheimer's (often called diabetes of the brain).

Of course, start with therapeutic doses. Tara recently suggested 100 mg niacinamide x3/day, as well as 200 mg thiamine and 1 mg biotin once per day. From these, you'll want to start off even smaller most likely, as in 10 mg niacinamide x3/day. I doubt you'll have problems with thiamine and biotin.

As for your liver, I'd recommend to get that checked first. For histamine, many have had positive results with cyproheptadine. (1 mg/day should be sufficient, but I'd start with 0.25 mg and work your way up; talk to your doctor.)

P5p (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) at 5 mg/day should be helpful as well.

B2 may be helpful in small amounts 3-9 mg/day.

Avoid B12 (methylcobalamin and other forms) as well as B5 (pantothenic acid).

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Haidut has posted quite a few studies on niacinamide helping schizophrenia IIRC, as well as niacinamide, thiamine, and biotin restoring glucose metabolism, which staves off diabetes, which is closely related to Alzheimer's (often called diabetes of the brain).

Of course, start with therapeutic doses. Tara recently suggested 100 mg niacinamide x3/day, as well as 200 mg thiamine and 1 mg biotin once per day. From these, you'll want to start off even smaller most likely, as in 10 mg niacinamide x3/day. I doubt you'll have problems with thiamine and biotin.

As for your liver, I'd recommend to get that checked first. For histamine, many have had positive results with cyproheptadine. (1 mg/day should be sufficient, but I'd start with 0.25 mg and work your way up; talk to your doctor.)

P5p (pyridoxal-5-phosphate) at 5 mg/day should be helpful as well.

B2 may be helpful in small amounts 3-9 mg/day.

Avoid B12 (methylcobalamin and other forms) as well as B5 (pantothenic acid).

Thanks Dave again!

Niacinamide...took less than 50 mg twice and both times caused bad hyperventilating. I am convinced of it's amazing powers, but since I now believe my hyperventilating probs from a variety of things I've ingested (see post on this) are possibly from high histamine/congested liver, I'm working on bringing histamine down before taking it again. I'm eating daily homemade marmalade (as of yesterday), Peat style. Also consuming other vit C sources, and antihistamine sources. Cyproheptadine is on my list to buy.

Thiamine...I recently posted on how, after taking less than 50 mg a day for less than a week, put me in that terrible place mentally. A day off of it and I was feeling normal again (which is very relative!).

Biotin...this one I love! I need to buy more as I ran out a while ago.

P5P...that's a B vitamin?

If I may ask, how do you know so much stuff? All my posts are together under Specific Users if you care to see my whole picture. I really appreciate all help and support given! It's, as they say, "do or die time" for me. As we speak I have spent half a day with afib/tremors/antsy feeling/edgy... and I think it may be from the naringenen (marmalade)!! Sounds weird, but nothing else I've eaten today is different. It's getting defeating dealing with all this @$!#!!!

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks Dave again!

Niacinamide...took less than 50 mg twice and both times caused bad hyperventilating. I am convinced of it's amazing powers, but since I now believe my hyperventilating probs from a variety of things I've ingested (see post on this) are possibly from high histamine/congested liver, I'm working on bringing histamine down before taking it again. I'm daily homemade marmalade (as of yesterday), Peat style. Also consuming other vit C sources, and antihistamine sources. Cyproheptadine is on my list to buy.

Thiamine...I recently posted on how, after taking less than 50 mg a day for less than a week, put me in that terrible place mentally. A day off of it and I was feeling normal again.

Biotin...this one I love! I need to buy more as I ran out a while ago.

P5P...that's a B vitamin?

If I may ask, how do you know so much stuff? All my posts are together under Specific Users if you care to see my whole picture. I really appreciate all help and support given! It's, as they say, "do or die time" for me. As we speak I have spent half a day with afib/tremors/antsy feeling/edgy... and I think it may be from the naringenen (marmalade)!! Sounds weird, but nothing else I've eaten today is different. It's getting defeating dealing with all this @$!#!!!

P5P is the biologically active form of B6. The other is pyridoxine hcl, which can cause nerve damage. I recommend the former.

Bad experiences with niacinamide and thiamine can indicate a number of things. Have you gotten a glucose tolerance test by chance, or do you know if you're pre-diabetic?

I know a lot of this stuff because I deal with health problems as a 19 year-old. Among them, anxiety, depression, poor physical fitness, weak bone structure, hypogonadism (indicated by a lowered libido), and symptoms of cortisol excess brought on by trauma and stress as a child. I'm on my way to med school, so I'll be doing this for the rest of my life; I'll be trying to help people.

Personally, I haven't tried red light, but I've heard good things. You might want to look into it; it's very non-invasive. Buteyko breathing is another non-invasive technique, as is the use of the Frolov or Breathslim device for respiratory resistance training (breathing with resistance to increase oxygenation and lung capacity); credit for that goes to ecstatichamster.

Raising your sugar intake will directly increase CO2 levels; this will be one of the most effective remedies. Raising your salt intake will decrease adrenaline. Coconut oil will stimulate metabolism by displacing PUFA (as well as having a few pro-metabolic properties of its own.) This, along with reduced breathing frequency and volume (shallow breathing with pauses after exhalation) should decrease your anxiety significantly. I find that I cannot tolerate niacinamide unless I have healthy thyroid function.

Methylene blue (500 mcg - 1 mg/day) may be helpful as well for neuronal health.

 

[tara]

Hi Mmm,
I can't remember if you've already told this, but have you estimated roughly how many calories you've been eating per day on average for the last couple of months? What about over the last 10-20 yrs? Have you used chronometer or similar to see if you are getting ~ 80-100g of good protein nowadays?

For me, I have lots of experience over decades of running out of energy (sometimes just from insufficient food when I needed it) and it affecting my brain function.

But when my brain gets really fuzzy and sick feeling, it seems to usually be too much milk, unfortunately, that is the culprit. I don't think milk does this to most people, I just think I have an intolerance to it. I have been tested for allergies (skin test) and showed no response to milk or any food. I get no noticable gut distress from it.

I also assume my brain is affected more generally by decades of high PUFA consumption.

Could you be suffering either hunger or a specific brain-affecting allergy/intolerance?

Sorry if this is all repetition.

 

[PakPik]

Hi Maureen, I'm sorry you're feeling so run down. I have a couple of thoughts that I'd like to share.

I am convinced of it's amazing powers, but since I now believe my hyperventilating probs from a variety of things I've ingested

I don't know if someone has told you this before, but since you are in such a hyperreactive state, it would be wise to avoid everything that is bothering you, even if it's a great supplement. A hypersensitivity reaction is bad, always bad, wherever if originates from.

Cyproheptadine is on my list to buy.

This is a substance I am so grateful for. I can give testimony that it has helped me through this very though road, and given me the chance for my body to regain order. Cypro, plus around 4 other Peaty supplements have been key for me.

As we speak I have spent half a day with afib/tremors/antsy feeling/edgy... and I think it may be from the naringenen (marmalade)!! Sounds weird, but nothing else I've eaten today is different.

I would definetily ****NOT**** recommend eating substantial amounts of flavonoids such as naringin/naringenin for anyone, in moderation they are fine, but in high amounts (like they exist in the peels) are quite liver congesting: they inhibit the liver microsomal cytochrome P-450 (P-450) IIIA4, an enzyme involved in the oxidation of a number of drugs, carcinogens, and steroids, including estrogens. If you already have a very sensitive condition from chronic stress, I can't imagine blocking the liver detox functions can be good. So estrogen rises as a consequence of this and estrogen happens to be a great mast cell activator and neuronal excitant, there you have a bad combination of factors that most probably have contributed to the symptoms you express.

Stuff that you find in herbs, teas, peels, undercooked vegetables and so on, like polyphenols, flavonoids, are usually very powerful acting on the nervous/immune system, many of them are estrogenic and many of them block liver detoxification enzymes. I strongly suggest that you be careful with this kinds of additions to your cooking and drinking, and if I were in a situation like yours -which I have been in the past- I'd completely avoid them.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

P5P is the biologically active form of B6. The other is pyridoxine hcl, which can cause nerve damage. I recommend the former.

Bad experiences with niacinamide and thiamine can indicate a number of things. Have you gotten a glucose tolerance test by chance, or do you know if you're pre-diabetic?

I know a lot of this stuff because I deal with health problems as a 19 year-old. Among them, anxiety, depression, poor physical fitness, weak bone structure, hypogonadism (indicated by a lowered libido), and symptoms of cortisol excess brought on by trauma and stress as a child. I'm on my way to med school, so I'll be doing this for the rest of my life; I'll be trying to help people.

Personally, I haven't tried red light, but I've heard good things. You might want to look into it; it's very non-invasive. Buteyko breathing is another non-invasive technique, as is the use of the Frolov or Breathslim device for respiratory resistance training (breathing with resistance to increase oxygenation and lung capacity); credit for that goes to ecstatichamster.

Raising your sugar intake will directly increase CO2 levels; this will be one of the most effective remedies. Raising your salt intake will decrease adrenaline. Coconut oil will stimulate metabolism by displacing PUFA (as well as having a few pro-metabolic properties of its own.) This, along with reduced breathing frequency and volume (shallow breathing with pauses after exhalation) should decrease your anxiety significantly. I find that I cannot tolerate niacinamide unless I have healthy thyroid function.

Methylene blue (500 mcg - 1 mg/day) may be helpful as well for neuronal health.

Thank you Dave for all your advice! The reason I asked about your knowledge is because you already sound like a doctor! I think you'll make a fine one...especially with Ray Peat on your side.

Yes, I'd say I have an approximately 15 year history of metabolic syndrome, w a lifetime of hypoglycemia. Interestingly enough my blood sugar was tested a year ago at 100 (the first time it was above normal limits). My test last week was down to 90! I know that 3 months of Peating has made the difference. I have had none of the old blood sugar symptoms like I did before giving up sugar 15 yrs ago. I also quit PUFAs 4 years ago, so they must be out of my system by now.

So what does this mean as far as thiamine and Niacinamide...any ideas??

 

[DaveFoster]

Thank you Dave for all your advice! The reason I asked about your knowledge is because you already sound like a doctor! I think you'll make a fine one...especially with Ray Peat on your side.

Yes, I'd say I have an approximately 15 year history of metabolic syndrome, w a lifetime of hypoglycemia. Interestingly enough my blood sugar was tested a year ago at 100 (the first time it was above normal limits). My test last week was down to 90! I know that 3 months of Peating has made the difference. I have had none of the old blood sugar symptoms like I did before giving up sugar 15 yrs ago. I also quit PUFAs 4 years ago, so they must be out of my system by now.

So what does this mean as far as thiamine and Niacinamide...any ideas??

No problem, and thanks for the compliment. I hope I can get through the dogma of med school, but I'm sure of my own ignorance at this point.

Thiamine and niacinamide, along with biotin in therapeutic dosages won't bring your blood sugar to dangerously low levels, especially after acclimatization. I'd recommend slow and steady progress. I'd also recommend taking a listen to the Generative Energy podcasts by Danny Roddy and company for a run down of these problems in very general and easy-to-understand terms. You can find those here: Episodes

Just take a look at some you're interested in that relate to you personally. The main thing is the metabolic rate; anything that improves thyroid function, CO2, and glucose metabolism will protect the structure of your cells and ensure optimal metabolic function; this will guard against all degenerative conditions, but it will not prevent them indefinitely.

Hypoglycemia is accompanied with a rise in sympathetic hormones (stress hormones), such as adrenaline, cortisol, and glucagon. You want to maintain a steady blood sugar, but that's difficult to do without an appetite. As you run on the stress metabolism for a longer window of time, your ability to consume glucose diminishes with time as your body prefers to burn fatty acids, which directly degrades your glucose tolerance, leads to insulin resistance, obesity, diabetes, etc.

Your body doesn't want to maintain both systems: burning sugar and burning fat. It prefers one or the other, so it doesn't waste energy, known as the Randle Cycle. The best way to prevent hypoglycemia in my experience is to eat frequently and keep CO2 levels elevated, whether through the myriad of supplements, such as aspirin especially, or through bag breathing (Buteyko breathing, or a respiratory training device). Eating itself elevates CO2 levels, but stress hormones, serotonin especially, negatively impact appetite, so you want to lower these if possible.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Hi Mmm,
I can't remember if you've already told this, but have you estimated roughly how many calories you've been eating per day on average for the last couple of months? What about over the last 10-20 yrs? Have you used chronometer or similar to see if you are getting ~ 80-100g of good protein nowadays?

For me, I have lots of experience over decades of running out of energy (sometimes just from insufficient food when I needed it) and it affecting my brain function.

But when my brain gets really fuzzy and sick feeling, it seems to usually be too much milk, unfortunately, that is the culprit. I don't think milk does this to most people, I just think I have an intolerance to it. I have been tested for allergies (skin test) and showed no response to milk or any food. I get no noticable gut distress from it.

I also assume my brain is affected more generally by decades of high PUFA consumption.

Could you be suffering either hunger or a specific brain-affecting allergy/intolerance?

Sorry if this is all repetition.

Thanks Tara! Please don't ask me about calories/protein right now. I have gotten to a completely unacceptable weight now...just in time for summer. Yah! It's especially bad because I have gained 65 (probably 70 after the last few months) in the last 7 years. I'm pretty much down to like 1 or 2 outfits to wear since I refuse to keep wasting my money on more clothes!

So I'm cutting back a little on my calories. I know...I know. But I found a post where Haidut make recommendations for supplements if weight gain is a problem, so I'm trying those. Unfortunately I can't list those now cause I can't find them in my bookmarks where I thought they were.

But one thing for sure...I'm going lowfat starting Monday.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

Hi Maureen, I'm sorry you're feeling so run down. I have a couple of thoughts that I'd like to share.


I don't know if someone has told you this before, but since you are in such a hyperreactive state, it would be wise to avoid everything that is bothering you, even if it's a great supplement. A hypersensitivity reaction is bad, always bad, wherever if originates from.

This is a substance I am so grateful for. I can give testimony that it has helped me through this very though road, and given me the chance for my body to regain order. Cypro, plus around 4 other Peaty supplements have been key for me.

I would definetily ****NOT**** recommend eating substantial amounts of flavonoids such as naringin/naringenin for anyone, in moderation they are fine, but in high amounts (like they exist in the peels) are quite liver congesting: they inhibit the liver microsomal cytochrome P-450 (P-450) IIIA4, an enzyme involved in the oxidation of a number of drugs, carcinogens, and steroids, including estrogens. If you already have a very sensitive condition from chronic stress, I can't imagine blocking the liver detox functions can be good. So estrogen rises as a consequence of this and estrogen happens to be a great mast cell activator and neuronal excitant, there you have a bad combination of factors that most probably have contributed to the symptoms you express.

Stuff that you find in herbs, teas, peels, undercooked vegetables and so on, like polyphenols, flavonoids, are usually very powerful acting on the nervous/immune system, many of them are estrogenic and many of them block liver detoxification enzymes. I strongly suggest that you be careful with this kinds of additions to your cooking and drinking, and if I were in a situation like yours -which I have been in the past- I'd completely avoid them.

More great wisdom PakPik. Thanks!

I gave away all my marmalade, no hesitation. You are definitely right about avoiding those 'supernutrients' I haven't had a bad reaction since.

My goal now is to quiet down my body as much as possible...no stomach, heart, RLS, mental, etc. It's kind of exciting to see the control I actually have over symptoms, and knowing that the less my body talks to me the more healing that's taking place.

I got my test results. Amazingly all was WNL except cholesterol, which has always been okay. I'm not really concerned about it though...just kinda high by AMA standards.

OTOH my glucose is down from a year ago, from 100 to 90. Now that's something to celebrate! It doesn't completely surprise me though as my body seems able to handle all the sugar/carbs without any ill effects (like I used to get with PUFAs).

My Bs (1, 6, and 12) were all great. I'll try to post all the results on here (3 sheets worth!) and you can peek around and see if you find anything interesting.

 

[Mmmaurshmallows]

OK, have you tried Allithiamine or Benfotiamine yet? These are broken down fat soluble B1 supplements. The hyperventalaing, orthostatic hypotension, headaches are all related to Thiamine deficiency. I think Ray says it is estrogen related, which I agree, but it is related to low CO2 and oxygen deprivation when insulted with chemicals that the liver is not able to detoxify fast enough. Swelling in the brain or edema anywhere in the body can be relieved by Thiamine repletion. And while you are at it, look into B6 (P5P) and B2 (R5P) as these are needed for the liver to detoxify estrogen along with good protein of course. I have had these issues too so you are not alone.

Well I got my tests results back and my thiamine, B12, and B6 all look good. I plan to post all my test results tomorrow. But since your helpful advice about B vitamins I found my bottle of chelated B complex and started taking last week. I don't know if that's the same idea as Allithiamine, but I figure I'll at least use up what I have.

So no BeriBeri for me...Thank God! :p

 

[Trix]

Well I got my tests results back and my thiamine, B12, and B6 all look good. I plan to post all my test results tomorrow. But since your helpful advice about B vitamins I found my bottle of chelated B complex and started taking last week. I don't know if that's the same idea as Allithiamine, but I figure I'll at least use up what I have.

So no BeriBeri for me...Thank God! :p

Good to hear

 

[PakPik]

My goal now is to quiet down my body as much as possible...no stomach, heart, RLS, mental, etc. It's kind of exciting to see the control I actually have over symptoms, and knowing that the less my body talks to me the more healing that's taking place.

This is a great plan! I'm all for quieting the body down, that's basically a must when one has dealt with lots of excitotoxicity and hypersensitivity issues, in order to help things get back on track, let the cells adopt more orderly ways.
I'm glad you are able to tame some of your symptoms already!