1-year On Ray Peat/Pro-metabolic Diet With Some Bad Results

[Djukami]

It seems like you already choosed your path and your questions are not so defined. If you feel good now on pregnenolone and androsterone Ok if it helps you mentally but I am pretty sure that it is not going to last very long without running into new issues. And so i do not think you should expect something great at all with that approach long therm. In fact you might expect even worse situation after some time when things get out of control and you lose coherence with environment and roots of your inflammation even more. And no thyroid is not anti inflammatory for every inflammatory process thats already present as i explained in that bolded part because thyroid requires different support than cortisol. And so your sensitivity to cortisol and adrenaline will be sky high on exogenous thyroid/progesterone/prehnenolone without removing real burden and inflammation. Nor it will enable you to overcome that over time just by "adjusting the dose" And the further you go down that road the harder it will be to regain homeostasis again.

Totally agree. But man, you must also understand not everyone can understand health & nutrition nor has time to read everything around there. It's reading and reading probably to no avail. What you say sounds very nice and it is the wonderland that everyone wanted to achieve when starting to find the cause of their issues. However it's not that easy... Imagine having kids? Imagine not having energy to feed their kids or not having energy to work and gain some money? What do you say to them? "You must find the root of your issues." Tell me, what a person without mental energy can do to find their root issues? It's a never ending cycle, you must to recognize that.

I don't know what you expect from me. You need to decide between those 2 choices. I think I gave you a good explanation and advice.

Perhaps it's sound very easy to you, but for us who don't really understand the details it's very hard. That's why people pay for doctors: they have done that work for us.

Yes. And as with every other atempt you(and author of that site) were also attacked without actually any actual proof about that explanation.

First of all I agree in most of things you say, I just don't understand that insulting or sarcasm insults sometimes. You bring very interesting points, but then comes the ad hominem
You have common sense, which for me sometimes is much more important. Like you see the whole picture now.

But I don't get it... So you say that taking thyroid makes no sense (which I totally agree) and then you say that the author of that site "were also attacked without actually any actual proof about that explanation"? I don't even know what are you trying to say here.

https://selfhacked.com/blog/4-reasons-taking-thyroid-hormone-may-not-good-idea/

When Taking Thyroid Hormone Is Necessary
I would never suggest not experimenting with thyroid hormones, but it should be done after you’ve taken all of the tests to measure inflammation, oxidative stress, and adiponectin (for lectin sensitivity). Perhaps try the lectin avoidance diet first, if possible.

It would be wise to experiment with many other things first before turning to thyroid hormones.

If you’ve tried everything and you still have low thyroid hormones, then experiment by taking it and continue with it only if you see a significant benefit (in the long run as well).

I would much rather people take TRH for a sluggish thyroid, although it is quite expensive.

Thyroid hormones are indeed a godsend for people with advanced Hashimoto’s, head traumas, or other similar concerns.​

However, before taking thyroid hormones, you want to make sure that either your thyroid antibodies are high or that your thyroid hormones are significantly below the standard (not borderline).
​

I mean, I think overall it is much more in the line in what you say.

 

[Djukami]

He did some interesting youtube interviews of people like Gerald Pollack and Michael Hamblin. But he stopped doing them probably because he's spending all his time developing his selfdecode business.

It's great that he was able to "fix" all of his issues, but unfortunate that it's takes such an extremely restrictive diet.

Yeah, and the price of his consultations are very expensive now. I didn't buy his book, but I believe that must contains very cutting edge information there.
Although, I just don't like this architecture of marketing.
https://selfhacked.lpages.co/selfhacked-salespage-b/
Seems like those scam ads xD

The other day I was reading some of his posts when his site was still a blog.

My Self-Experiments - Cutting-Edge Solutions For a Better Life.

I like how he stays open minded about things, even though he is now focused on genetics. But to do this kind of experiments shows that he likes to break the dogma.

It's great that he was able to "fix" all of his issues, but unfortunate that it's takes such an extremely restrictive diet.

Indeed, in the end, ok, he doesn't take hormones or play with them but then again he probably has to supplement all the missing nutrients. @nikolabeacon , between not taking thyroid or other hormones and constantly supplement nutrients and restrict his diet to 5 foods, what would be better in a long term period in your opinion? I still think his path is safer than start pounding hormones in our body, but that's my opinion.

It's a problem if you have a chronic infection or other toxicities... Joe probably has that and other things too.

 

[Jack Roe]

"When an old and distinguished person speaks to you, listen to him carefully and with respect — but do not believe him. Never put your trust into anything but your own intellect. Your elder, no matter whether he has gray hair or has lost his hair, no matter whether he is a Nobel laureate — may be wrong. The world progresses, year by year, century by century, as the members of the younger generation find out what was wrong among the things that their elders said. So you must always be skeptical — always think for yourself." Linus Pauling

Great advice.

I agree 100% re: Pete's quasi high-functioning autism, but I think it is fair to point out that this is mostly the behavior encouraged by the University system---hyper-focus on a narrow interpretation of one's specialty, conclusions derived from that. I probably know more PhDs, in more fields, than the average person (not that I, thank God, am one =]), and most of them have a Peatish flavor. They all have very rigid belief systems that they don't change, and they are all fairly certain that their views are correct.

"He clearly have problems about authoritarianism and responsibility (and with being honest) when it comes to his "recommendations" to various peoople and contradiction between his THEORY and real world evidences."

This I have more problem with, because the idea that there is good "real world evidence" about diet is not there, especially if one comes from a family that eats a shitty diet---one doesn't get to just move in with a family that eats a healthy diet, and people do tend to stratify, socially, based on health, income, intelligence and other traits. The evidence is, I submit, that nutritional science today is where surgery was in the 16th century---it's even sort of the same problems, except instead of the Church frustrating things, we have the food industry. If it were true that omega6 fats are needed, maybe in the 2-3g a day level (not 100% toxic as Pete suggests), then it is clear that most people are over-consuming them. As I have said, I had basically no chronic health problems until I tried to get the US Institute of Medicine "Recommendation" (or AI or whatever they call it) for omega6.

And I very much agree with your view that people need to treat their situation, not just take hormones, etc. In my situation, the lead-up to my trying the omega6 AI was watching my brother die, slowly, of mental health problems and physical health problems. The mental health issues meant he didn't get treatment for the physical stuff. I remember the day before he died, I was going to make one last push to get him into hospital. He'd been vomiting and having chest pain for a good little while, and he'd been in hospital. He was discharged on his own demand (tho not against medical advice). I was there, and I remember the nurse unhooking his IV sort of getting this wide-eyed look and saying "wait, you're being discharged? And the doctors are OK?" And they were. I was going to stay home from University, try to get him into the hospital, hopefully a psych hold so that they could at least feed him for a week or two, do tests more quickly---inpatients always get better testing, especially in psych wards in Canada, because they're considered wards of the doctors, more or less. But I asked my parents, who had presided over his degeneration, what to do, and they told me to "mind my own business" and go to school. So I did. The next day, I was woken up by a 7am phonecall telling me that my brother was dead and that I had better get home.

So, the above quote is right: just because your parents (or Pete) are older doesn't mean you believe in them; just because they have a PhD or can present a good-sounding academic story doesn't mean you trust them. Ultimately you must use your own intellect, and that will require either personal experience, or a great deal of trust, more trust than is probably warranted, given the constitution of the University system and its graduates, but that is another topic, one of the least studied in the world, IMO.

 

[nikolabeacon]

Great advice.

I agree 100% re: Pete's quasi high-functioning autism, but I think it is fair to point out that this is mostly the behavior encouraged by the University system---hyper-focus on a narrow interpretation of one's specialty, conclusions derived from that. I probably know more PhDs, in more fields, than the average person (not that I, thank God, am one =]), and most of them have a Peatish flavor. They all have very rigid belief systems that they don't change, and they are all fairly certain that their views are correct.

"He clearly have problems about authoritarianism and responsibility (and with being honest) when it comes to his "recommendations" to various peoople and contradiction between his THEORY and real world evidences."

This I have more problem with, because the idea that there is good "real world evidence" about diet is not there, especially if one comes from a family that eats a shitty diet---one doesn't get to just move in with a family that eats a healthy diet, and people do tend to stratify, socially, based on health, income, intelligence and other traits. The evidence is, I submit, that nutritional science today is where surgery was in the 16th century---it's even sort of the same problems, except instead of the Church frustrating things, we have the food industry. If it were true that omega6 fats are needed, maybe in the 2-3g a day level (not 100% toxic as Pete suggests), then it is clear that most people are over-consuming them. As I have said, I had basically no chronic health problems until I tried to get the US Institute of Medicine "Recommendation" (or AI or whatever they call it) for omega6.

And I very much agree with your view that people need to treat their situation, not just take hormones, etc. In my situation, the lead-up to my trying the omega6 AI was watching my brother die, slowly, of mental health problems and physical health problems. The mental health issues meant he didn't get treatment for the physical stuff. I remember the day before he died, I was going to make one last push to get him into hospital. He'd been vomiting and having chest pain for a good little while, and he'd been in hospital. He was discharged on his own demand (tho not against medical advice). I was there, and I remember the nurse unhooking his IV sort of getting this wide-eyed look and saying "wait, you're being discharged? And the doctors are OK?" And they were. I was going to stay home from University, try to get him into the hospital, hopefully a psych hold so that they could at least feed him for a week or two, do tests more quickly---inpatients always get better testing, especially in psych wards in Canada, because they're considered wards of the doctors, more or less. But I asked my parents, who had presided over his degeneration, what to do, and they told me to "mind my own business" and go to school. So I did. The next day, I was woken up by a 7am phonecall telling me that my brother was dead and that I had better get home.

So, the above quote is right: just because your parents (or Pete) are older doesn't mean you believe in them; just because they have a PhD or can present a good-sounding academic story doesn't mean you trust them. Ultimately you must use your own intellect, and that will require either personal experience, or a great deal of trust, more trust than is probably warranted, given the constitution of the University system and its graduates, but that is another topic, one of the least studied in the world, IMO.

"because the idea that there is good "real world evidence" about diet is not there"
Are you serious? You sound like a broken man.

 

[nikolabeacon]

Thank you, so did you improve your hypothyroidism? If yes, how please?

If you are unable to understand or put into practice my previous advice than I don't know what to tell you. I would suggest to stop with tracking your pulse and temps and also to stop all those supplements. At least you'll be less paranoid.

Also to stop medication with loads of sucrose and caffeine. And decrease dairy consumption considerably. You LL be less conspira/constipational.Maybe you LL also deserve Wikipedia page one day as all other "Peat heroes" deserved.

I started to read and experiment with my diet just from curiosity. I summed up briefly here Freely Eating Sugar Ruined Me why I was euphoric from stress on this Paleo(peat) diet. Paradox is that while I was experimenting with various approaches of peat(Paleo) diet I only slowed down my liver and sensitivity to stress was sky high as I explained here.I needed about 3500 cal, I then increased protein intake , tried to drink large amounts of coffee with sugar and TH in the form of fish heads and small bits of veal thyroid gland in soups since my liver was overburdened with all that fructose and dairy as I explained. But it is all harmfull and will have lots of side effects I observed through Peat and people's experiences here. (luckily I realized on time what's the problem). As I stopped withthis first time in the beginning of this year for 4-5 months everything came back to normal and I recently tried again just from curiosity(led by all peat convincing stories again) to only confirm for the second time again that it's BS and that my observations were right. When I eat my normal diet(which I ate before all this) , I described briefly in that thread, I need almost 1000 calories less , I am not hypersensitive to stress, my digestion and liver work as they should and sometimes I am more energized sometimes less depending on the environment and season and I will adjust food intake according to it.

It seems that you still believe in Peat theory that we all should strive to have pulse little over 85 , temp around 37(and high this , low that when it comes to other hormones) no matter the circumstances and environment?

Biggest Paradox is that all this theory about low serotonin, estrogen etc, relaxed high energy state etc......and then you have Peat(and his hardcore followers) as a clear representative case of Serotonin and Estrogen loaded person and behaviour that only can be sarcastic, conspirational Genius from the shadow. Estrogen from progesterone/pregnenolone, serotonin from his good diet of gallon of milk and OJ and liver and gelatin. And no wonder you have most popular therms on this forum such as ..."LOL" and "cyprophetadine, digestive enzymes, antibiotics etc."

I do not know why I am writing this again ....Longevity and resilence is all about coherence with the environment not in imitating "low stress" state . Also it is not about pointless stimulation of the metabolism and imitating child's (growing)metabolism. So it is not correct just to define people as "hypothyroid " or not. It is BS. This is why there are not so many cases of supercentenarians today . Also genetics (or memory)still play a big role in all this.

I think I explained all this in my previous posts for those that are not ignorant(and have energy to think outside of Peat box).

"A chain is no stronger than its weakest link."

 

[Broken man]

"When an old and distinguished person speaks to you, listen to him carefully and with respect — but do not believe him. Never put your trust into anything but your own intellect. Your elder, no matter whether he has gray hair or has lost his hair, no matter whether he is a Nobel laureate — may be wrong. The world progresses, year by year, century by century, as the members of the younger generation find out what was wrong among the things that their elders said. So you must always be skeptical — always think for yourself." Linus Pauling

I am feeling good on this diet.

 

[Jack Roe]

"because the idea that there is good "real world evidence" about diet is not there"
Are you serious? You sound like a broken man.

So there are straightforward and correct dietary recommendations?
Where are they?
If they exist, and there is good evidence for them, why doesn't everyone simply follow them?

 

[Wagner83]

I am feeling good on this diet.

With supplements I feel good on most diets.

 

[nikolabeacon]

So there are straightforward and correct dietary recommendations?
Where are they?
If they exist, and there is good evidence for them, why doesn't everyone simply follow them?

Because of the various confusing informations.

PeatFirst thing is Understanding of the "real" traditional" knowledge before all this modern various confusing propaganda and politics(which Peat and his followers see as a Conspiracy...which is absolute BS) came , that I described in this thread. Evidences about real world longevity diets exist in many places., And are also described in many ancient writings, civilisations or "religions". In that thread I listed just most famous (Japanese,Okinawan, Chinese, Asian, Mediterranean , some regions in mediteranean Balkan) that have many things in common that I briefly described and which @Westside PUFAs and @tyw tried to present in their posts. And of course they will also differ in some things and smaller or bigger "details" from each other because of the environmental factors and circumstances.

Peat diet is basically a type of Paleo diet , or some kind of primitive tribal nomadic type nutrition or anti/civilisation phylosophy. Eskimos and all other tribal primitive Hunter/gatherer diets as in other animal world for survival needed "whole animals" and their products( thyroid gland, organs etc, ) , primitive sugars(fructose).
Cooking(and increased nutrition of bioavailability and nutrition) and cultivation of grains and roots(and some fruits and plants and animals as a supplemental foods) as concentrated reservoir of energy and life... of superior life giving sugar glucose that is responsible for activation of TH and it's increased production and also a concentrated source of energy for all processes in body and for our big brains that are responsible for all real developments(and civilisations and their great knowledge) and real "traditional" inventions and survival of the human race.

 

[cyclops]

Because of the various confusing informations.

PeatFirst thing is Understanding of the "real" traditional" knowledge before all this modern various confusing propaganda and politics(which Peat and his followers see as a Conspiracy...which is absolute BS) came , that I described in this thread. Evidences about real world longevity diets exist in many places., And are also described in many ancient writings, civilisations or "religions". In that thread I listed just most famous (Japanese,Okinawan, Chinese, Asian, Mediterranean , some regions in mediteranean Balkan) that have many things in common that I briefly described and which @Westside PUFAs and @tyw tried to present in their posts. And of course they will also differ in some things and smaller or bigger "details" from each other because of the environmental factors and circumstances.

Peat diet is basically a type of Paleo diet , or some kind of primitive tribal nomadic type nutrition or anti/civilisation phylosophy. Eskimos and all other tribal primitive Hunter/gatherer diets as in other animal world for survival needed "whole animals" and their products( thyroid gland, organs etc, ) , primitive sugars(fructose).
Cooking(and increased nutrition of bioavailability and nutrition) and cultivation of grains and roots(and some fruits and plants and animals as a supplemental foods) as concentrated reservoir of energy and life... of superior life giving sugar glucose that is responsible for activation of TH and it's increased production and also a concentrated source of energy for all processes in body and for our big brains that are responsible for all real developments(and civilisations and their great knowledge) and real "traditional" inventions and survival of the human race.

So you think we should be eating more grains and starch and less fruit and fructose? And less milk? What about a classic bodybuilder kind of diet? Is that good?

 

[nikolabeacon]

So you think we should be eating more grains and starch and less fruit and fructose? And less milk? What about a classic bodybuilder kind of diet? Is that good?

Yes. I think it's better than Peat's (Tribal) diet.

 

[cyclops]

Yes. I think it's better than Peat's (Tribal) diet.

So something like:

Breakfast: Oatmeal, Berries, Eggs, Water

Lunch: Chicken Breast, Spinach, Brown Rice, Water

Dinner: Salmon, Potato, Kale, Water.

For example?

What kind of oil would you use for cooking? Would you include any dairy whatsoever?

 

[nikolabeacon]

So something like:

Breakfast: Oatmeal, Berries, Eggs, Water

Lunch: Chicken Breast, Spinach, Brown Rice, Water

Dinner: Salmon, Potato, Kale, Water.

For example?

What kind of oil would you use for cooking? Would you include any dairy whatsoever?

I can't tell you details.i think Westside and Tyw have done a great job at describing good diet and approaches. My personal choice is
in overall something very traditional..Refined. starches and potatoes as a main calorie source and as a supplemental foods some meat or fish(not everyday) cooked vegetables or some dairy products(but very little) , eggs, some fruits and juices(max 80- 100 g of sucrose) and some whole grains and beans. Not too much salt...maybe avoidance of coffee or limiting it's consumption to 1-2 small cups. I think i wrote this but if digestion is very weak fat is best to kept very low(5%of calories) and most animal products avoided and about 10-20% or so if not . I would use butter and fresh ex.vkrgin olive oil and even ocassionally in small quantities some fresh pressed (non refined or hydrogenated) other vegetable oils per advice and work of William F. Koch. Also frying in oils of any kind should be strictly avoided esspecially olive or other plant oils. Traditionally steamed and cooked food is best and easiest to digest. Also good quality clean or spring water is important.

 

[Broken man]

With supplements I feel good on most diets.

So you are lucky man. How you want improve your health then? My health is really bad so what you recommend me ? I know that sugar gives me energy but starches makes me tired, why?

 

[cyclops]

I can't tell you details.i think Westside and Tyw have done a great job at describing good diet and approaches. My personal choice is
in overall something very traditional..Refined. starches and potatoes as a main calorie source and as a supplemental foods some meat or fish(not everyday) cooked vegetables or some dairy products(but very little) , eggs, some fruits and juices(max 80- 100 g of sucrose) and some whole grains and beans. Not too much salt...maybe avoidance of coffee or limiting it's consumption to 1-2 small cups. I think i wrote this but if digestion is very weak fat is best to kept very low(5%of calories) and most animal products avoided and about 10-20% or so if not . I would use butter and fresh ex.vkrgin olive oil and even ocassionally in small quantities some fresh pressed (non refined or hydrogenated) other vegetable oils per advice and work of William F. Koch. Also frying in oils of any kind should be strictly avoided esspecially olive or other plant oils. Traditionally steamed and cooked food is best and easiest to digest. Also good quality clean or spring water is important.

So you do not use any coconut oil then? I'm guessing you are against frying in oil because it oxidizes? But coconut oil is stable and should be good for frying, no?

Could you please let me know what a day of eating looks like for you on days where you do not consume any meat or fish? I'm very curious, especially since you say you consume very little dairy.

 

[Jsaute21]

I can't tell you details.i think Westside and Tyw have done a great job at describing good diet and approaches. My personal choice is
in overall something very traditional..Refined. starches and potatoes as a main calorie source and as a supplemental foods some meat or fish(not everyday) cooked vegetables or some dairy products(but very little) , eggs, some fruits and juices(max 80- 100 g of sucrose) and some whole grains and beans. Not too much salt...maybe avoidance of coffee or limiting it's consumption to 1-2 small cups. I think i wrote this but if digestion is very weak fat is best to kept very low(5%of calories) and most animal products avoided and about 10-20% or so if not . I would use butter and fresh ex.vkrgin olive oil and even ocassionally in small quantities some fresh pressed (non refined or hydrogenated) other vegetable oils per advice and work of William F. Koch. Also frying in oils of any kind should be strictly avoided esspecially olive or other plant oils. Traditionally steamed and cooked food is best and easiest to digest. Also good quality clean or spring water is important.

Its funny you have such angst for RP as your food choices seem to correlate in line with the typical suggestions he offers folks. Many people on here have dramatically improved their health following Ray's guidelines. Does that mean that they abide by his every last piece of advice? Hopefully not. It seems to be relatively conclusive that starches work well for many folks on here. I happen to be one of them. I also find sugars to work extremely well. Maybe that is because the majority of of folks on here believe in the importance of consuming enough carbohydrates. Ray Peat seems to be a big proponent of that revolutionary theory as well. What a coincidence. I am happy you feel comfortable with your food choices and feel good on a daily basis.

For me personally - i feel better, look better & perform better in every possible way since finding Ray & @haidut's work. I know it is unfashionable to praise Haidut on this forum for whatever reason. The studies & research he has provided has saved many folks a lot of time, and has been instrumental in understanding how energy metabolism works. I know @tca300 @tyler @Stryker and many others feel very similarly. I will even add that my journey followed the exact progression @haidut said his did. I was skinny, underfed & unhealthy. I started eating more and felt better. For a brief period i gained some body fat for the first time in my life. As my metabolism caught up & figured out how to burn adequate glucose & sugar after years of underfeeding carbs & calories - the fat went away. I am back to being a lean & anaerobic guy.

According to the studies and experimental reports i have seen- taking a few drops of Andro or Keto or DHEA won't shut you down or hurt your liver. If you go crazy with it, you are absolutely right it will lead to potential shut down or obsessive behavior. @haidut is very transparent about this - don't really see the big deal or why people have to come in so negatively on the topic.

I am getting tired of people being so damn cynical on here. Especially folks who have clearly benefited from Ray's work. It's not only a shitty quality in life, but it deters many people such as someone like @cyclops from potentially healing. Even if you don't agree with some of Ray's views - surely you must prefer it to the majority of dog ***t diets out there such as bulletproof, paleo, etc.

Also - my suspicion is "freely eating sugar" didn't ruin you. It may have exacerbated some underlying health issues that were already present.

 

[Broken man]

Its funny you have such angst for RP as your food choices seem to correlate in line with the typical suggestions he offers folks. Many people on here have dramatically improved their health following Ray's guidelines. Does that mean that they abide by his every last piece of advice? Hopefully not. It seems to be relatively conclusive that starches work well for many folks on here. I happen to be one of them. I also find sugars to work extremely well. Maybe that is because the majority of of folks on here believe in the importance of consuming enough carbohydrates. Ray Peat seems to be a big proponent of that revolutionary theory as well. What a coincidence. I am happy you feel comfortable with your food choices and feel good on a daily basis.

For me personally - i feel better, look better & perform better in every possible way since finding Ray & @haidut's work. I know it is unfashionable to praise Haidut on this forum for whatever reason. The studies & research he has provided has saved many folks a lot of time, and has been instrumental in understanding how energy metabolism works. I know @tca300 @tyler @Stryker and many others feel very similarly. I will even add that my journey followed the exact progression @haidut said his did. I was skinny, underfed & unhealthy. I started eating more and felt better. For a brief period i gained some body fat for the first time in my life. As my metabolism caught up & figured out how to burn adequate glucose & sugar after years of underfeeding carbs & calories - the fat went away. I am back to being a lean & anaerobic guy.

According to the studies and experimental reports i have seen- taking a few drops of Andro or Keto or DHEA won't shut you down or hurt your liver. If you go crazy with it, you are absolutely right it will lead to potential shut down or obsessive behavior. @haidut is very transparent about this - don't really see the big deal or why people have to come in so negatively on the topic.

I am getting tired of people being so damn cynical on here. Especially folks who have clearly benefited from Ray's work. It's not only a shitty quality in life, but it deters many people such as someone like @cyclops from potentially healing. Even if you don't agree with some of Ray's views - surely you must prefer it to the majority of dog ***t diets out there such as bulletproof, paleo, etc.

Also - my suspicion is "freely eating sugar" didn't ruin you. It may have exacerbated some underlying health issues that were already present.

Love you so much :*

 

[nikolabeacon]

Its funny you have such angst for RP as your food choices seem to correlate in line with the typical suggestions he offers folks. Many people on here have dramatically improved their health following Ray's guidelines. Does that mean that they abide by his every last piece of advice? Hopefully not. It seems to be relatively conclusive that starches work well for many folks on here. I happen to be one of them. I also find sugars to work extremely well. Maybe that is because the majority of of folks on here believe in the importance of consuming enough carbohydrates. Ray Peat seems to be a big proponent of that revolutionary theory as well. What a coincidence. I am happy you feel comfortable with your food choices and feel good on a daily basis.

For me personally - i feel better, look better & perform better in every possible way since finding Ray & @haidut's work. I know it is unfashionable to praise Haidut on this forum for whatever reason. The studies & research he has provided has saved many folks a lot of time, and has been instrumental in understanding how energy metabolism works. I know @tca300 @tyler @Stryker and many others feel very similarly. I will even add that my journey followed the exact progression @haidut said his did. I was skinny, underfed & unhealthy. I started eating more and felt better. For a brief period i gained some body fat for the first time in my life. As my metabolism caught up & figured out how to burn adequate glucose & sugar after years of underfeeding carbs & calories - the fat went away. I am back to being a lean & anaerobic guy.

According to the studies and experimental reports i have seen- taking a few drops of Andro or Keto or DHEA won't shut you down or hurt your liver. If you go crazy with it, you are absolutely right it will lead to potential shut down or obsessive behavior. @haidut is very transparent about this - don't really see the big deal or why people have to come in so negatively on the topic.

I am getting tired of people being so damn cynical on here. Especially folks who have clearly benefited from Ray's work. It's not only a shitty quality in life, but it deters many people such as someone like @cyclops from potentially healing. Even if you don't agree with some of Ray's views - surely you must prefer it to the majority of dog ***t diets out there such as bulletproof, paleo, etc.

Also - my suspicion is "freely eating sugar" didn't ruin you. It may have exacerbated some underlying health issues that were already present.

You didn't address any single point I made in this thread. It just a common dishonest empty story when you can't actually say anything against my claims. I know how I feel eating peat prometabolic diet and what people are experiencing here and how I feel on my normal traditional diet I described.

 

[cyclops]

You didn't address any single point I made in this thread. It just a common dishonest empty story when you can't actually say anything against my claims. I know how I feel eating peat prometabolic diet and what people are experiencing here and how I feel on my normal traditional diet I described.

You gotta tell me what a day of eating looks like for you. I reread what you wrote and I can't figure it out.

 

[nikolabeacon]

You gotta tell me what a day of eating looks like for you. I reread what you wrote and I can't figure it out.

If you are another broken man why just don't believe in Peat , Haidut and his supps?

Probably between 2500-3000 cal fat is around 30-50 g (before all this I was eating more fat I think but didn't realy tracked that), 20-80 g of sucrose(from some traditional clear apple juices or from ripe fruits in season) , protein maybe around 50-80 g and starch is rest. With combinations of listed foods. And all this will changes according to season and activity. Sorry if it's not enough precise.

If you areavery weakened and can not tolerate starch you may want to try some spring water fasting or eating very small portions of refined overcooked starch with just a little clear fruit juice until digestion and liver improves.