~4 Months of peating, full panel: all steroids and HDL dropped; tryglycerides increased?

[Vajra]

Here's a before and after of two blood tests I took. I went from an IIFYM bull**** (probably 180p, 100c, and 120f a day; I hit my micros and took cod liver oil but generally avoided ω-6) over to a pretty strict diet of: 2 eggs, quart of pasturized GF whole milk, quart of OJ, many tablespoons of honey, a cup or two of nonfat greek yogurt, and pound of beef or few oz of cheese a day.
I started to supplement A, D, K2 (on the balls, recently, and about a week before test #2), E, magnesium (all from idealabs), 5g of creatine, and half a grain of NDT every day. The first test was after about a week of this. I've been in a mild caloric surplus the whole time but haven't gained much weight, staying between 15-18% bodyfat.
The real punch in the gut was the drop in T from 684 to 455. I was prepared to see an increase! Matter of fact I was feeling pretty good both days. A possible explanation was a protocol I tried of 50mg of progest-E for a few days straight to detox estrogen, which I guess was effective at lowering E2. But it may have given me gyno. I haven't been paying attention to it before but my nipples are puffy quite often and it's either hormones or my consumption of cow's milk. Switching to goat's today to see, and it very well may be dairy that's my problem. Another possibility for the drop in T is overtraining; I lift high RPE 5x/week, but is this not a really major decrease? I was also on nofap for at least a month before the second test, yet fapped the night before the first.
I'll just drop more or less the whole thing since everything is interconnected. There's more but it may not be relevant or the change was minor. Both were taken fasted. btw:

Date	4/12	8/26
Time	11:44 AM	9:15 AM
Glucose	89 mg/dL	87
Sodium	139 mmol/L	141
Potassium	4.7 mmol/L	4.7
CO2, total	23 mmol/L	22
Calcium	9.7 mg/dL	9.3
Phosphorus	mg/dL3.5	3.8

Lipids:

LDH	143 IU/L	132
Iron	111 ug/DL	151
Triglycerides	81 mg/dL	103
Total Cholesterol	223 mg/dL	208
HDL	50 mg/dL	36
VLDL	14 mg/dL	19
LDL	159 mg/dL	153

Hematology:

WBC	7.3 x10E3/uL	6.0
Platelets	234	269
Neutrophils	65%	55
Lymphs	27%	32%
Monocytes	3%	4
Basos	0%	1

Hormones:

Testosterone, Serum	684 ng/dL	455 (FUUUUUUUUUUU-)
Testosterone, Free (Direct)	15.3 pg/mL	13.7 pg/mL
Pregnenolone	149ng/dL	-
DHT	43 ng/dL (pre-creatine)	32 (no thanks to creatine)
DHEA-S	536 ug/dL	433
Estradiol	30.9 pg/mL	15.1 pg/mL
Progesterone	-	0.2 ng/mL
SHBG	41.8	-
T3	3.6 pg/mL	-
T4	1.3 ng/dL	-
TSH	1.13 uIU/mL	-

So... any ideas to throw around? Besides E2, I expected to see the opposite of everything that happened as far as hormones go, honestly.

 

[Hans]

What was the difference in calories between test 1 and 2? Did you check total cholesterol as well? Elevated HDL can be a sign of elevated endotoxin. HDL can increase to "buffer" the endotoxin.

 

[Vajra]

What was the difference in calories between test 1 and 2? Did you check total cholesterol as well? Elevated HDL can be a sign of elevated endotoxin. HDL can increase to "buffer" the endotoxin.

Edited the post; I've been in a mild calorie surplus (2600-2900 range) the whole time but haven't gained much weight (I don't have a scale though) but judging by my physique I've been staying between 15-18% bodyfat. Total cholesterol went from 223 to 208. I'm not very worried about the HDL lowering, I just kind of wonder what that cholesterol is doing now if not making steroids.

 

[Hans]

Edited the post; I've been in a mild calorie surplus (2600-2900 range) the whole time but haven't gained much weight (I don't have a scale though) but judging by my physique I've been staying between 15-18% bodyfat. Total cholesterol went from 223 to 208. I'm not very worried about the HDL lowering, I just kind of wonder what that cholesterol is doing now if not making steroids.

Why would they not be making steroids? Thyroid promotes LDL conversion to preg and prog, which you didn't test. The drop in cholesterol shows that it's being used for steroidogenesis.
Steroid hormone levels are so unpredictable since they're only a snap shot in time and since you fapped, who knows where it would have been. Are you feeling better now on a Peat diet vs on the other diet?

 

[Vajra]

Why would they not be making steroids? Thyroid promotes LDL conversion to preg and prog, which you didn't test. The drop in cholesterol shows that it's being used for steroidogenesis.
Steroid hormone levels are so unpredictable since they're only a snap shot in time and since you fapped, who knows where it would have been. Are you feeling better now on a Peat diet vs on the other diet?

I suppose it's possible my pregnenolone levels blasted off, but I don't think the difference in T can be easily overlooked. A 229 ng/dl decrease is pretty major considering I've taken measures to raise it (scrotal K2, red light, taurine, a past Progest-E protocol, nofap, better habits etc.) and I even got the blood drawn earlier in the morning. Do you think a drop so large could be thanks to high-intensity lifting for ~90 mins the evening before (and the evening before, and the evening before...)? I recover fine but I think going easier will be my next experiment. Afaik my cortisol/adrenaline levels are low, if anything: that's the biggest difference I've noticed ever since I stopped intermittent fasting and started eating a lot more carbs/sugar.
I feel better but far from perfect most days. I may have to quit all dairy if drinking goat milk doesn't change anything, which is a shame since it's been an absolute boon nutritionally. I get a mild histamine reaction from cow's milk, and now puffy nipples too. For all I know it could be responsible for all my problems in life.

 

[gaze]

no updated thyroid numbers? supplementing fat solubles is always a bit risky, more so on the balls. Ray has mentioned repeatedly progesterone can lower testosterone.

 

[baccheion]

You'd want at most 5:1 total:HDL.

Testosterone went down, but it's ratio with estradiol (more important) improved. Suggests your testosterone was higher reactively (bad). 22:1 (before) isn't as good as 30:1 T:E2 (now). Getting closer to the ideal 40-60:1 range and away from the typical 14.5:1 among healthy lean adult males. Once estradiol is sufficient, the ratio is much more important and more relevant to androgenic:estrogenic shaping during puberty.

Try 1 large egg, 2 cups orange juice, and 4 cups 1% milk per serving. Repeat as many times per day as needed for energy, ideally every 3-4 hours. Many waste the egg shell membrane, as easy source of glucosamine + chondroitin + hyaluronic acid once boiled/cleaned and crushed up.

 

[JamesGatz]

I'm not sure if this can help you, but honey seems to destroy my libido - no idea what causes it, but felt like my testosterone is shot whenever I eat honey and I've tried many different brands some seemingly clean. I stopped eating it completely and I was right back to high test

 

[Vajra]

no updated thyroid numbers? supplementing fat solubles is always a bit risky, more so on the balls. Ray has mentioned repeatedly progesterone can lower testosterone.

Maybe I should have gotten thyroid checked, but my pulse and temps temps have been pretty optimal; increased about 1°F to where they should be and when.
I'm aware it's a pretty risky on the balls, like that it can alter the fatty acid composition of the gonads, but not much else, but enough to scare me from trying it for too long. For the record I didn't notice much from applying Kuinone on the gonads as opposed to the torso beyond what could have been placebo.

You'd want at most 5:1 total:HDL.

Testosterone went down, but it's ratio with estradiol (more important) improved. Suggests your testosterone was higher reactively (bad). 22:1 (before) isn't as good as 30:1 T:E2 (now). Getting closer to the ideal 40-60:1 range and away from the typical 14.5:1 among healthy lean adult males. Once estradiol is sufficient, the ratio is much more important and more relevant to androgenic:estrogenic shaping during puberty.

Yeah, I rejoice that E2 halved. Until I got the results today and am now able to placebo myself, I didn't feel low T at all. I turned 19 in May btw.

I'm not sure if this can help you, but honey seems to destroy my libido - no idea what causes it, but felt like my testosterone is shot whenever I eat honey and I've tried many different brands some seemingly clean. I stopped eating it completely and I was right back to high test

I'll keep that in mind. The first week I started peating, I slammed tons of tablespoons of honey and coconut oil throughout the day. Now I can hardly stomach the same coconut oil and honey is much more rich to me. Honey as a pre-workout has been amazing. I usually go for the palest varieties I can find, you think that makes a difference?

 

[JamesGatz]

I'll keep that in mind. The first week I started peating, I slammed tons of tablespoons of honey and coconut oil throughout the day. Now I can hardly stomach the same coconut oil and honey is much more rich to me. Honey as a pre-workout has been amazing. I usually go for the palest varieties I can find, you think that makes a difference?

Yes - I believe the lighter the color and solid are generally clean, but yea I would try to experiment to see if maybe you see some improvement on days you go without it.

I become a completely different person on honey - my brain thrives on it and makes me feel really smart and able to talk A LOT with no effort, but I get this odd drive feeling - like that I really want to work and get something done - could do a 10 page report in under an hour - I become very disinterested in sex and my muscle and overall size diminishes - I also feel a little stressed and would snap at my brother or sister for something really small and get OCD-like

It does wonders for my mind, but I feel like the rest of my body suffers when I take it unfortunately - it seems like it's doing really good things for you, but test is really important to me, so when it comes to test I would try to find the root cause possibly performing some experiments and see if you feel any better

 

[Vajra]

I become a completely different person on honey - my brain thrives on it and makes me feel really smart and able to talk A LOT with no effort, but I get this odd drive feeling - like that I really want to work and get something done - could do a 10 page report in under an hour - I become very disinterested in sex and my muscle and overall size diminishes - I also feel a little stressed and would snap at my brother or sister for something really small and get OCD-like

It does wonders for my mind, but I feel like the rest of my body suffers when I take it unfortunately - it seems like it's doing really good things for you, but test is really important to me, so when it comes to test I would try to find the root cause possibly performing some experiments and see if you feel any better

I can relate to that attitude sometimes. Weird that honey would cause it... do you think you're allergic or anything? I'm having like 10+ tbsp a day atm so I'll probably use white sugar in my milk

 

[JamesGatz]

I can relate to that attitude sometimes. Weird that honey would cause it... do you think you're allergic or anything? I'm having like 10+ tbsp a day atm so I'll probably use white sugar in my milk

I wouldn't be surprised if I was allergic - from everything you mentioned the only things that I found messed with my androgens is progesterone in high doses as @gaze mentioned and the honey. White sugar does really good things for my androgens so I think that would help you see if that could possibly be the source

 

[Kaur Singh]

Calcium went down, and phosphorous went up.
Though I don't know how representative of body-wide health a one-time test is.

Urine may be interesting to look at for Ca:P too.

You can get Ca from throughly cooked greens too, as an addition to the milk.

What about parathyroid and prolactin? D?

Gelatin/broth/organ meats/ligaments/tendons in yer diet?

Heart rate and pulse throughout the day?

 

[Vajra]

Calcium went down, and phosphorous went up.
Though I don't know how representative of body-wide health a one-time test is.

I heard about 9mg is ideal, since high levels of Ca in the blood would imply it's not in the cells. I get heaps of calcium, especially compared to before.

What about parathyroid and prolactin? D?

Good question. If I test some of this additional stuff I'll probably do it with everything else again, since for all I know my current blood levels could differ now. I'm pretty sure my D is adequate at least, since I've been supplementing it on and off for years.

Gelatin/broth/organ meats/ligaments/tendons in yer diet?

Yeah I have 20g of collagen hydrolysate everyday. No organ meats since I don't really know a source. I have a smoked oyster or 2 most days.

Heart rate and pulse throughout the day?

Orally: Upon waking it's around 98. Drinking 2 cups of OJ upon waking usually brings it down to like 97.8, but not long after it gets brought back up to 98.4ish. About an hour later I'll have warm milk with honey and gelatin and sometimes it brings my temps back down to low 98s, or sometimes up. After that it's 98.6+ the whole day until bedtime. If I have steak or work out it'll go into the mid 99s in the evening easily.
My pulse throughout the day is like 70-80 but I don't measure it much.
So you'd think maybe I'm slightly hypo, but some days that whole process happens but it's +.4 degrees or so the whole time, i.e 99.0 for most of the afternoon.
I think a factor for the variability is if I feel like adding salt to my OJ, and how much.

 

[limitless77]

You'd want at most 5:1 total:HDL.

Testosterone went down, but it's ratio with estradiol (more important) improved. Suggests your testosterone was higher reactively (bad). 22:1 (before) isn't as good as 30:1 T:E2 (now). Getting closer to the ideal 40-60:1 range and away from the typical 14.5:1 among healthy lean adult males. Once estradiol is sufficient, the ratio is much more important and more relevant to androgenic:estrogenic shaping during puberty.

Try 1 large egg, 2 cups orange juice, and 4 cups 1% milk per serving. Repeat as many times per day as needed for energy, ideally every 3-4 hours. Many waste the egg shell membrane, as easy source of glucosamine + chondroitin + hyaluronic acid once boiled/cleaned and crushed up.

how do you eat the egg shell?

 

[Kaur Singh]

I think it is good to measure HR together with temps.
For example, when it goes over 37C/98.6F - with a higher HR, could be adrenaline.
I also have these smaller spikes in temperature.
I have wondered if it could be uncoupling, when not due to adrenaline.

Do you experience any discomfort with heat?
Heat intolerance is a hypothyroid sign.
excess nitric oxide can be behind that.

Ca:P ratio
Niacinamide can bring phosphorous down.
Small doses.

 

[baccheion]

how do you eat the egg shell?

The membrane. The white film inside the shell..

 

[Hans]

I suppose it's possible my pregnenolone levels blasted off, but I don't think the difference in T can be easily overlooked. A 229 ng/dl decrease is pretty major considering I've taken measures to raise it (scrotal K2, red light, taurine, a past Progest-E protocol, nofap, better habits etc.) and I even got the blood drawn earlier in the morning. Do you think a drop so large could be thanks to high-intensity lifting for ~90 mins the evening before (and the evening before, and the evening before...)? I recover fine but I think going easier will be my next experiment. Afaik my cortisol/adrenaline levels are low, if anything: that's the biggest difference I've noticed ever since I stopped intermittent fasting and started eating a lot more carbs/sugar.
I feel better but far from perfect most days. I may have to quit all dairy if drinking goat milk doesn't change anything, which is a shame since it's been an absolute boon nutritionally. I get a mild histamine reaction from cow's milk, and now puffy nipples too. For all I know it could be responsible for all my problems in life.

It would be a good experiment to switch to goat milk instead since A1A2 cows milk can drop T if it causes inflammation in the body.

 

[Re.Generate]

The progesterone is the most likely culprit - its great stuff but will kick estrogen out of the cells and if you haven’t yet built up your detox capacity that could then be floating around and attaching elsewhere - my two cents

 

[Vajra]

The progesterone is the most likely culprit - its great stuff but will kick estrogen out of the cells and if you haven’t yet built up your detox capacity that could then be floating around and attaching elsewhere - my two cents

Makes sense. Should I be optimizing my liver, then?