1-year On Ray Peat/Pro-metabolic Diet With Some Bad Results

[Wagner83]

I wouldn't go the calcium route, it will probably make it worse. Calcium is OK from foods up to 1gr.

"Peat's diet" may probably be one of the most destructive diets long term. Sugar, calcium, caffeine and long chain SFA in excess... along with avoiding intense exercising. Nice recipe for disaster (I mean for an already normal healthy individual).

What's wrong with more than 1gr calcium and sugar + caffeine long term? Same question for some fatty cheese ?

 

[mayweatherking]

I wouldn't go the calcium route, it will probably make it worse. Calcium is OK from foods up to 1gr. The key factor is keeping PTH low through magnesium, k2 and 25(OH)D levels, not calcium.

"Peat's diet" may probably be one of the most destructive diets long term. Sugar, calcium, caffeine and long chain SFA in excess... along with avoiding intense exercising. Nice recipe for disaster (I mean for an already normal healthy individual).

The main advise that has true value is not overdoing with pufas. The rest is just common sense; true unprocessed food, energy mainly from carbs, light, anaerobic exercise, and stress managing. Not rocket science.

 

[mayweatherking]

op... start checking ur temp at first several times a day, at waking, after breakfast, midday, afternoon, and evening. Aiming for a resting midday temperature of 37C/98.6F and pulse rate of about 85

 

[Agent207]

What's wrong with more than 1gr calcium and sugar + caffeine long term? Same question for some fatty cheese ?

1gr calcium is more than enough in normal circumstances, let me emphasize MORE THAN ENOUGH. Trying to compensate low magnesium intake and low 25(OH)D levels (<50ng/mL) with extra calcium looks a very bad idea to me, the same way as happens with excess iron.

Sugar is not a big deal used ocassionally but its empty crap as food source since you can use hooney of mapple syrup to sweeten up things. Caffeine is no problem neither from time to time, as long as it won't create you daily dependence.

What's wrong with cheese?? Its a great food, while it won't be made from homogenized milk.

 

[Drareg]

Vitamin D 25-OH Level
42 ng/mL
Reference Range:30 ng/mL - 80 ng/mL

Glucose.
102 mg/dL (High)
Reference Range:70 mg/dL - 99 mg/dL

Cortisol AM
25.57 ug/dL (High)
Reference Range:5.00 ug/dL - 25.00 ug/dL

TSH
1.85 uIU/mL
Reference Range:0.40 uIU/mL - 5.00 uIU/mL

T4 Free
1.34 ng/dL
Reference Range:0.60 ng/dL - 1.60 ng/dL

T3 Free
3.1 pg/mL
Reference Range:2.0-4.4

Prolactin
20.34 ng/mL (High)
Reference Range:1.60 ng/mL - 18.80 ng/mL

Still waiting for results on Testosterone, will update tomorrow.
****************************
Age 25, pretty fit, can see abs, walk every day, lift 2x-3x week. Depression, wake up multiple times a night, especially near morning.

Diet
Potato, rice, OJ, muscle meats, gelatin, eggs, coconut oil, liver sometimes, tons of mushrooms. Low to no PUFA.

Supps
oral pregnenolone (40 mg/day), 2-3 g of eggshell calcium, BCAA, tyrosine, lycine, taurine, Vit D (5,000 IU), E (400 IU/day), A (15,000 IU/day), K2 (5-60 mg/day), aspirin (80mg 4x week), niacinamide (500 mg 3x week), methylene blue (1mg/day). Cyproheptadine (1 -2 mg 3x week).

I feel pretty good (provided I had decent sleep the previous night), look fine, but clearly I'm under some serious stress with high TSH Prolactin and Cort. Need to fix sleep to lower stress but need to lower stress to be ably to sleep soundly.

Having more digestion issues lately. Maybe related to OJ causing stomach aches and irritation


Any other ideas based on this and my labs?

If it was fasting bloods it's worth taken this into account.

BCCA have been reported by many to cause depression,the speculation is dopamine and serotonin bothe get lowered,from our bias we think it's the dopamine. I don't think tyrosine is going to help for everyone with dopamine,what's stopping it going down the adrenaline route?
Vitamin E can down regulate androgen receptors in some cases so occasional use probably better,using aspirin and vitamin E doesn't make much sense unless you have some serious issues imo but at 25?

You mentioned before you were going for natural bodybuilding competition,intense training takes longer to recover to what is mentioned in most circles imo, it was posted on here before about people I great shape,ripped who had high cortisol all the time.

Being mindful of your socio economic status is always good,not suppressing it with other activities but addressing it if it's a problem.

 

[encerent]

If it was fasting bloods it's worth taken this into account.

BCCA have been reported by many to cause depression,the speculation is dopamine and serotonin bothe get lowered,from our bias we think it's the dopamine. I don't think tyrosine is going to help for everyone with dopamine,what's stopping it going down the adrenaline route?
Vitamin E can down regulate androgen receptors in some cases so occasional use probably better,using aspirin and vitamin E doesn't make much sense unless you have some serious issues imo but at 25?

You mentioned before you were going for natural bodybuilding competition,intense training takes longer to recover to what is mentioned in most circles imo, it was posted on here before about people I great shape,ripped who had high cortisol all the time.

Being mindful of your socio economic status is always good,not suppressing it with other activities but addressing it if it's a problem.

Thanks. I'm pulling back on all the supps.

 

[Drareg]

Thanks. I'm pulling back on all the supps.

I forgot cyproheptadine in some cases effects dopamine also.

 

[jaa]

I think you're right to prioritize a good nights sleep.

Camping is known to reset circadian rhythms. You can also just go without artificial light in the evenings. Do that for 2 days in a row and you get most of the benefit that a week of camping would give you.

Eat lightly at night and don't eat after dark.

A body scan before you go to bed is a good way to settle the mind -

 

[tankasnowgod]

I wouldn't go the calcium route, it will probably make it worse. Calcium is OK from foods up to 1gr. The key factor is keeping PTH low through magnesium, k2 and 25(OH)D levels, not calcium.

"Peat's diet" may probably be one of the most destructive diets long term. Sugar, calcium, caffeine and long chain SFA in excess... along with avoiding intense exercising. Nice recipe for disaster (I mean for an already normal healthy individual).

The main advise that has true value is not overdoing with pufas. The rest is just common sense; true unprocessed food, energy mainly from carbs, light, anaerobic exercise, and stress managing. Not rocket science.

I am curious as to what, exactly, you are basing any of this on. The US RDA minimum for calcium (for all adults) is 1000mg (or 1g), with the minimum being higher for some women and people over 70. The tolerable upper limit is set at 2500mg. I don't think Ray ever recommended a specific amount, but he clearly is fond of higher calcium intakes.

As for Vitamin D, 50 ng/ml is what the Vitamin D council suggests is ideal, with anything between 40-80 ng/ml being sufficient. The endocrine society gives a larger range from 30-100. So I would hardly call a level of 42 ng/ml deficient.

 

[Mito]

I don't think Ray ever recommended a specific amount, but he clearly is fond of higher calcium intakes.

RAY PEAT: Look, my first suggestions would be to check your intake of calcium and sodium as well as magnesium and potassium, but calcium and sodium are often the things that are missing when someone is putting on fat instead of producing energy. I think 2,000 mg of calcium per day is a good safe standard amount. For example, 1.5 to 2.0 quarts of milk will provide enough calcium to keep your machinery running so you're burning calories.

 

[Agent207]

The US RDA minimum for calcium (for all adults) is 1000mg (or 1g), with the minimum being higher for some women and people over 70. The tolerable upper limit is set at 2500mg.

RDA is a number to approximate the intake around to, not minimun/maximum; and as I said 1gr seems pretty OK for PTH control. I pointed out this for general healthy population, not specific populations like the ones you suggested.

Lots of D3 research raised these last years that suggest a higher minimum for 25(OH)D at 50ng/mL (optimal 60-70). I'm just saying I'd better increase magnesium up to the calcium intake around 1gr and 25(OH)D levels to 50, and then check for PTH before taking extra calcium.

 

[tankasnowgod]

RDA is a number to approximate the intake around to, not minimun/maximum; and as I said 1gr seems pretty OK for PTH control. I pointed out this for general healthy population, not specific populations like the ones you suggested.

Lots of D3 research raised these last years that suggest a higher minimum for 25(OH)D at 50ng/mL (optimal 60-70). I'm just saying I'd better increase magnesium up to the calcium intake around 1gr and 25(OH)D levels to 50, and then check for PTH before taking extra calcium.

Well, in your second post you stressed that 1g of calcium was more than enough. Since that goes against Peat's ideas, and even most mainstream advice, I'm wondering where you got this idea from. I've seen suggestions that higher levels of calcium from supplements can increase the rate of heart attacks (although it was a very slight, though statisically significant increase), while getting levels higher than 1g daily from food does not.

I know Vitamin D was a very hot topic a few years back, and everyone seemed to be pushing the "more is better!" idea, but as Chris Masterjohn pointed out, the idea that levels of 60-70 are more beneficial than levels of 30-40ng/ml are more speculative than clearly established- https://www.westonaprice.org/our-blogs/are-some-people-pushing-their-vitamin-d-levels-too-high/

 

[sele]

First, do no harm.

Look for supps that may be bothering you.

Rice, potatoes = endotoxins.
Muscle meat= tryptophan.

Your AM cortisol is high indicating low glucose at night.
What do you eat before you go to bed?
Usually high cortisol increases prolactin.

 

[nikolabeacon]

I wouldn't go the calcium route, it will probably make it worse. Calcium is OK from foods up to 1gr. The key factor is keeping PTH low through magnesium, k2 and 25(OH)D levels, not calcium.

"Peat's diet" may probably be one of the most destructive diets long term. Sugar, calcium, caffeine and long chain SFA in excess... along with avoiding intense exercising. Nice recipe for disaster (I mean for an already normal healthy individual).

The main advise that has true value is not overdoing with pufas. The rest is just common sense; true unprocessed food, energy mainly from carbs, light, anaerobic exercise, and stress managing. Not rocket science.

100 % right

 

[tanneron]

I wouldn't go the calcium route, it will probably make it worse. Calcium is OK from foods up to 1gr. The key factor is keeping PTH low through magnesium, k2 and 25(OH)D levels, not calcium.

"Peat's diet" may probably be one of the most destructive diets long term. Sugar, calcium, caffeine and long chain SFA in excess... along with avoiding intense exercising. Nice recipe for disaster (I mean for an already normal healthy individual).

The main advise that has true value is not overdoing with pufas. The rest is just common sense; true unprocessed food, energy mainly from carbs, light, anaerobic exercise, and stress managing. Not rocket science.

WOW! First time I've read on this forum that the "Peat diet" is one of the most destructive diets. Is this approach a diet or a lifestyle? Are you suggesting that this nutritional lifestyle advocated by Peat and on this forum, which is designed to restore the body to health, cannot be used to maintain health over a lifetime?

 

[Agent207]

Well, in your second post you stressed that 1g of calcium was more than enough. Since that goes against Peat's ideas, and even most mainstream advice, I'm wondering where you got this idea from.

From Paul Eck,

One of the most important functions of calcium is not the creation of
bone tissue. It is the regulation of metabolism. Calcium tends to slow
down the metabolic rate. It is part of the body’s natural ‘braking’
system.
It is no coincidence that newborns, who have an extremely high
rate of metabolism – have relatively low calcium levels. As we age,
the body begins to apply the calcium ‘brake’. Tissue calcium levels
rise higher and higher and the metabolism slows down.
Calcium lines the cell membrane. A low level of tissue calcium
allows the membrane to be more permeable – thus increasing the
speed of metabolism. A high level of tissue calcium reduces the
permeability of the cell membrane, thus slowing down the metabolic
rate.
Calcium is one of the most misunderstood nutrients. The
unfortunate truth is that most individuals do not have a true calcium
deficiency. What they have is an inability to utilize the excess
calcium that is already in their tissues.
To consume calcium that you do not need is to accelerate your
decline into slow metabolism – and into old age.

 

[sladerunner69]

Vitamin D 25-OH Level
42 ng/mL
Reference Range:30 ng/mL - 80 ng/mL

Glucose.
102 mg/dL (High)
Reference Range:70 mg/dL - 99 mg/dL

Cortisol AM
25.57 ug/dL (High)
Reference Range:5.00 ug/dL - 25.00 ug/dL

TSH
1.85 uIU/mL
Reference Range:0.40 uIU/mL - 5.00 uIU/mL

T4 Free
1.34 ng/dL
Reference Range:0.60 ng/dL - 1.60 ng/dL

T3 Free
3.1 pg/mL
Reference Range:2.0-4.4

Prolactin
20.34 ng/mL (High)
Reference Range:1.60 ng/mL - 18.80 ng/mL

Still waiting for results on Testosterone, will update tomorrow.
****************************
Age 25, pretty fit, can see abs, walk every day, lift 2x-3x week. Depression, wake up multiple times a night, especially near morning.

Diet
Potato, rice, OJ, muscle meats, gelatin, eggs, coconut oil, liver sometimes, tons of mushrooms. Low to no PUFA.

Supps
oral pregnenolone (40 mg/day), 2-3 g of eggshell calcium, BCAA, tyrosine, lycine, taurine, Vit D (5,000 IU), E (400 IU/day), A (15,000 IU/day), K2 (5-60 mg/day), aspirin (80mg 4x week), niacinamide (500 mg 3x week), methylene blue (1mg/day). Cyproheptadine (1 -2 mg 3x week).

I feel pretty good (provided I had decent sleep the previous night), look fine, but clearly I'm under some serious stress with high TSH Prolactin and Cort. Need to fix sleep to lower stress but need to lower stress to be ably to sleep soundly.

Having more digestion issues lately. Maybe related to OJ causing stomach aches and irritation


Any other ideas based on this and my labs?

High prolactin and cortisol that's peculular. Did you have esradiol and adrenal levels tested?

YOu are not taking vitamin b6 which is the basic supplement for opposing prolactin. Before you start that though, you are taking a slew of supplements already which could be raising your adrenaline and cortisol levels. For example you are taking 50 mg k2 some days apparently? I dont go above 5mg personally- there's nor real need for it, I think, especially in the long run.

What manufacture do you trust for your D, E and A? 1 mg methylene blue is a large dose, and there have been reports on here about it raising serotonin which can in turn promote prolactin release.

However, you only take 80mg aspirin which has a very reliable anti prolactin/cortisol effect.

And not drinking coffee and milk? I am personally dubious about the absorption rates for calcium suplements like eggshell, probably not as effective as quality dairy foods. The calcium should help lower prolactin.

Eating muscle meats is another thing that is not supported by Peat. I hope you are indeed consuming enough gelatin and calcium to balance out all that phosphate

Waking in the early morning is a signal that your blood glucose levels are low and that your stress hormones are high. Have you tried drinking OJ or milk and going back to sleep? I used to ahve this problem too but it has resided a lot now tha tmy glycogen storage ability has improved.


Overall your tsh , t3/t4, blood glucose levels are great which is a signal you are on the right path. Again did you get estrogen elvels checked? What about andorgens? Serotonin?

 

[tankasnowgod]

From Paul Eck,

One of the most important functions of calcium is not the creation of
bone tissue. It is the regulation of metabolism. Calcium tends to slow
down the metabolic rate. It is part of the body’s natural ‘braking’
system.
It is no coincidence that newborns, who have an extremely high
rate of metabolism – have relatively low calcium levels. As we age,
the body begins to apply the calcium ‘brake’. Tissue calcium levels
rise higher and higher and the metabolism slows down.
Calcium lines the cell membrane. A low level of tissue calcium
allows the membrane to be more permeable – thus increasing the
speed of metabolism. A high level of tissue calcium reduces the
permeability of the cell membrane, thus slowing down the metabolic
rate.
Calcium is one of the most misunderstood nutrients. The
unfortunate truth is that most individuals do not have a true calcium
deficiency. What they have is an inability to utilize the excess
calcium that is already in their tissues.
To consume calcium that you do not need is to accelerate your
decline into slow metabolism – and into old age.

Okay, but he appears to be basing that on the idea that soft tissue tends to calcify as we age. This is Ray Peat's view of the same process-

"Some people who know about the involvement of calcium in aging, stress, and degeneration suggest eating a low calcium diet, but since we all have skeletons, dietary calcium restriction can't protect our cells, and in fact, it usually intensifies the process of calcification of the soft tissues. Statistics from several countries have clearly shown that the mortality rate (especially from arteriosclerotic heart disease, but also from some other diseases, including cancer) is lower than average in regions that have hard water, which often contains a very large amount of either calcium or magnesium.
Many studies have shown that dietary calcium (or vitamin D, which increases calcium absorption) can have very important antiinflammatory effects. "

From this article- Calcium and Disease: Hypertension, organ calcification, & shock, vs. respiratory energy

 

[nikolabeacon]

From Paul Eck,

One of the most important functions of calcium is not the creation of
bone tissue. It is the regulation of metabolism. Calcium tends to slow
down the metabolic rate. It is part of the body’s natural ‘braking’
system.
It is no coincidence that newborns, who have an extremely high
rate of metabolism – have relatively low calcium levels. As we age,
the body begins to apply the calcium ‘brake’. Tissue calcium levels
rise higher and higher and the metabolism slows down.
Calcium lines the cell membrane. A low level of tissue calcium
allows the membrane to be more permeable – thus increasing the
speed of metabolism. A high level of tissue calcium reduces the
permeability of the cell membrane, thus slowing down the metabolic
rate.
Calcium is one of the most misunderstood nutrients. The
unfortunate truth is that most individuals do not have a true calcium
deficiency. What they have is an inability to utilize the excess
calcium that is already in their tissues.
To consume calcium that you do not need is to accelerate your
decline into slow metabolism – and into old age.

Right. Ca is regulated with Mg,vit D and K2 which should be produced in the intestines from proper digested starch, aAnd even worse things are expected with overdoing sugar( no matter if its from fruit or table suga) in along run same as with pounding Ca....Ca, Gelatin, and sugar will destroy your digestion and supress metabolism in a crazy way....and make terrible dissbalances over the years..

And no wonder then that you need to take thyroid, progesterone, Zinc, Magnesium, Selenium, vit K2,D...and no wonde that starch will make you "sick"....because you supressed your thyroid and thus destroyed digestion....

I bet that every single person who tries to follow his advices for a year or so will have sky high Prolactin( and starting of balding) , elevated Cortisoul from suprssive actions of Ca and Zinc defgiciencies as a compensation mechanism.....then bad sleep from cortisol kicks in.....,Zinc and Manganese deficiences from high sugar intake along with B vitamins esppecially B1, which will lead to many spoken depression and anxiety on this forum....

And no wonder than you will seek for T, P,zn, Lysine, taurine, mg, k2 ,D

Ca in milk will not help with blocking tryptophan in milk as he think....and it will elevate Serotonin....and Serotonin stimulates Prolactin production....and then acne and sebum along with hair sheding start to appear....

Gelatin made from rooting flesh and skins will nicely ruin your bowels and slow down digestion snd ensble endotoxemia to flourish.....even bone broths are very bad for majority...because of action of glycine on slowing digestion and transit time and thst means Endo .Tox. whivh leads aggain to Serotonin Prolactin pathway.....and gelatin and milk are sky high in glutamate

And Ca To Ph ratio is also wrong.....and with milk you will have dangerous amounts of Ph and again Ca will not help you with it....And Milk has non of the progesterone as he describes because almost all progesteron is fat soluble and is in Cream ....but anecdotally many types of Estrogen stay in skimmed milk because many are water soluble....and so drinking skimm milk will not save yo from exscess Estrogen....especially in 2l or more....so another big no for milk in such quantities

 

[Dante]

From Paul Eck,

One of the most important functions of calcium is not the creation of
bone tissue. It is the regulation of metabolism. Calcium tends to slow
down the metabolic rate. It is part of the body’s natural ‘braking’
system.
It is no coincidence that newborns, who have an extremely high
rate of metabolism – have relatively low calcium levels. As we age,
the body begins to apply the calcium ‘brake’. Tissue calcium levels
rise higher and higher and the metabolism slows down.
Calcium lines the cell membrane. A low level of tissue calcium
allows the membrane to be more permeable – thus increasing the
speed of metabolism. A high level of tissue calcium reduces the
permeability of the cell membrane, thus slowing down the metabolic
rate.
Calcium is one of the most misunderstood nutrients. The
unfortunate truth is that most individuals do not have a true calcium
deficiency. What they have is an inability to utilize the excess
calcium that is already in their tissues.
To consume calcium that you do not need is to accelerate your
decline into slow metabolism – and into old age.

No offense and don't mean to be disrepectful but didn't Eck pass away in his early 70s ? Might be high dose of zinc which is a strong CA upregulator