@haidut what type of magnesium supplement do you use? and what have you tried and gotten good effects with?
When I used it as supplement, I make magnesium bicarbonate. It seems to be the least irritating and never causes laxative effect for me.
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@haidut what type of magnesium supplement do you use? and what have you tried and gotten good effects with?
It would be interesting to compare to sodium bicarb, but I find the taste of that stuff apPauling, Linus (Is that a good quip?). I think I remember a few others on the forum had similar misgivings avec mag bicarb. Ive been taking mag citrate w/ no sides, but looking at malate now thanks to your suggestion. The only acetate I could find on ebay was a lab chemical named magnesium acetate tetrahydrate, any info on that is welcome.Have you tried magnesium chloride or sodium bicarbonate to make sure that it's related to that effect? I suggest you try magnesium first to avoid sodium confusion.
- Albion's magnesium malate provide two magnesium atoms per molecule, which minimizes the acid exposure a bit.It would be interesting to compare to sodium bicarb, but I find the taste of that stuff apPauling, Linus (Is that a good quip?). I think I remember a few others on the forum had similar misgivings avec mag bicarb. Ive been taking mag citrate w/ no sides, but looking at malate now thanks to your suggestion. The only acetate I could find on ebay was a lab chemical named magnesium acetate tetrahydrate, any info on that is welcome.
..and probably the contaminants in magnesium supplements as well.Various organic acids that are present in foods, such as citric, malic and lactic acid, have been shown to facilitate the absorption of iron (Gillooly et al. 1983). These acids, however, are less effective than ascorbic acid for stimulating iron absorption, and it is believed that the effect is due to weak chelation, which may help keep the metal ion in solution or facilitate its uptake by the mucosal cell. Although these acids may enhance iron absorption less than ascorbic acid, it should be emphasized that in many foods they are present in substantial concentrations.
Did you make it using the milk of magnesia formula, re-acting it with carbonated water, etc.?When I used it as supplement, I make magnesium bicarbonate. It seems to be the least irritating and never causes laxative effect for me.
Did you make it using the milk of magnesia formula, re-acting it with carbonated water, etc.?
I checked an Albion's magnesium malate analysis that I have, stating that it has up to 1.5ppm of lead. Since their magnesium malate is 20% magnesium, for every 300mg of magnesium, you'll have 1500mg of total mass; and up to 2.25mcg of lead.I was thinking that when magnesium is combined with organic acids, there's a possibility that they could enhance the absorption of contaminants. I already posted that malic acid can chelate aluminium, but the reaction can occur before digestion, picking up metals and shoving them inside. If I'm not wrong, I think I read some concerns about this elsewhere. Perhaps the same thing can occur with lead:
Influence of dietary factors on the gastrointestinal absorption of lead - ScienceDirect
"Sodium citrate and citric acid are added to many kinds of foods for a variety of reasons (Furia, 1968). Citrate also occurs naturally in foods and plays a role in several biochemical systems. In this investigation, it was found that both sodium citrate and orange juice, a source of citric acid, increased GI absorption of lead. It is common knowledge that lead poisoning can occur as a result of storing acidic beverages in pottery coated with lead-containing glazes (Klein et al., 1970). The enhancement of lead absorption by sodium citrate and orange juice should be distinguished from the ability of acidic solutions to leach lead from lead-containing pottery glazes. Both factors may contribute to the health hazards associated with the storage of acidic fruit juices in improperly glazed vessels."__
Nutrition of lead - ScienceDirect
"Since all soil contains lead, there is no lead-free food; a natural level of lead exists in food according to natural levels in the soil. The main source of contamination of soil is aerial deposition, the aspect which has received the greatest attention in recent years being the emissions of motor vehicles derived from the use of leaded fuels. Other sources, such as mining, may also contribute to lead in the atmosphere, lead levels in soil and air being highest in areas of high industrialization (Schulter and Egan. 1976; Underwood, 1971)."
"Lead paint on walls, woodwork and toys, lead glazes on ceramics, and pewter containers may all contribute to the total lead intake and to the possibility of lead poisoning (Arrow, 1976). Infants and children between the ages of 1 and 6 years have been the main victims of lead poisoning, chiefly from the ingestion of flaking paint (pica) from old houses and apartments (Mahaffey, 1981; Lin-fu, 1970). whereas exposure in adults is often associated with the consumption of moonshine whiskey made in lead-contaminated stills (Conrad and Barton. 1978)."
"Nutritional factors are thought to play an important role in lead poisoning (Mahaffey, 1981). Studies in animals have shown that certain substances bind lead and increase its solubility, thus enhancing its absorption. These dietary components consist of sodium citrate, ascorbate, amino acids (Kehoe, 1961), vitamin D (Smith et al., 1978; Barton et al., 1980), protein and fat (Barltrop and Khoo, 1976) and lactose [no one is ingesting isolated lactose, milk is inhibitory for the most part] (Bushnell and DeLuca, 198 1, 1982; Nutr. Rev., 1982; Stephens and Waldron, 1975). Nutritional iron deficiency and during rapid periods of growth (infancy) in laboratory animals also enhances lead absorption and promotes lead toxicity, thereby giving concern that pregnant women and young children may be more susceptible to dietary lead (Mahaffey, 1981). Iron (Barton et al., 1978a; Flanagan et al., 1979; Flanagan et al., 1982), zinc (Cerklewski and Forbes, 1976), calcium (Barton et al., 1978b), phosphorus, ethanol and magnesium decrease the absorption of lead without affecting its solubility, probably by competing for shared absorptive receptors in the intestinal mucosa (Conrad and Barton, 1978)."
"The total bodily amount of lead does not affect lead absorption. Thus, lead does not have a feedback mechanism which limits absorption."
"Kehoe (1976) performed a long-term balance study with chemical lead determinations. Their data suggest that under ordinary circumstances in eating food and beverages containing customary amounts of lead (0.1-0.4 mg/day), only 5% (food lead) to 10% (water-soluble lead) of the lead is absorbed. Rabinowitz et al. (1976) showed that the average absorption of stable lead tracers from food over a period of 124 days varied from 6.5 to 13.7% in five adult males."
"Barltrop and Khoo (1976) observed that the level of dietary fat had an influence on lead absorption. They showed that lead absorption is dependent upon both the quantity and type of dietary fat. Their work pointed out that by increasing the corn oil content from 5 to 40% of a diet, this resulted in a 7-14-fold increase in the lead content of several tissues. It has also been observed that lecithin when mixed with bile salts and choline (type of dietary fat) increased lead uptake (Mahaffey. 1981)."
"Shields and Mitchell (1941) showed that lowering the calcium and/or phosphorus intake could increase the lead content of bone or soft tissue at low levels of lead intake (32 ppm). These workers also observed that the influence of calcium intake on lead metabolism was seen primarily at low levels of calcium intake; increasing dietary calcium to high levels, 1.1% of the diet, did not decrease tissue stores of lead below those found on a normal calcium diet (Mahaffey and Rader, 1980)."
"A reduction of dietary calcium to approximately 40-50% of the dietary recommendation was necessary before increases in tissue lead content occurred (Mahaffey et al., 1973; Hsu et al., 1975)."
"Vitamin D appears to play a role in this as well. In animals low in vitamin D, less lead is absorbed; this implies a competitive interaction between the two divalent cations. Both lead absorption and calcium absorption are stimulated by 1.25-dihydroxycholecalciferol, but this occurs primarily in the distal small intestine for lead and in the duodenum for calcium (Smith et al., 1978; Barton et al., 1978b: Mahaffey et al., 1979: Frolik and DeLuca, 1971)."
"Rats were found more sensitive to lead intoxication if they were iron deficient (Mahaffey-Six and Goyer, 1972). Iron-deficient (not severe) rats also had increased concentrations of lead in kidney and bone compared with rats ingesting equivalent amounts of water containing 200ppm lead and an iron-adequate diet (Mahaffey, 1981; Mahaffey-Six and Goyer, 1972)."
"Recent work (Levander et al., 1980) suggests that lipid peroxidation plays a vital role for increased sphericity of erythrocytes from vitamin E-deficient rats and that a couple of different mechanisms are considered for the increase in toxicity of lead poisoning. Lead could react with certain membrane components, such as the phosphate groups of phospholipids, to disrupt the structure of the lipid bilayer, thus rendering the polyunsaturated fatty acids more susceptible to peroxidative attack (Levander et al., 1980). Lead is also known to be a weak catalyst of lipid peroxidation and could therefore promote loss of structural integrity."
"Mobilization of Intracellular Calcium
I've been making it easy on myself by increasing my use of SaltStick electrolyte capsules.After reading gbolduev's post on chlorides, it reminded me of potassium chloride used as sodium chloride substitute. I'm posting it here because this review offers a lot of combinations for people to experiment with depending on needs.
Potassium Chloride‐Based Salt Substitutes: A Critical Review with a Focus on the Patent Literature
"From a sensory standpoint, KCl has a salty taste with relatively strong offensive unpleasant side tastes which are described as bitter, acrid, chemical, and metallic (Sinopoli and Lawless 2012). Nevertheless, in comparison with NaCl the saltiness of KCl is significantly lower when we compare the same mass concentrations. Despite all these objective disadvantages, KCl is still the best alternative for common salt (NaCl) substitution. In this manner, all research and development work that has been performed by numerous scientists and developing engineers was focused on creating such salt substitutes that would minimize these sensory KCl drawbacks in, as much as possible, efficient manner."
"Inorganic salts have been the 1st TIAs [taste-improving agents] in the KCl-based salt substitutes. The simplest option included the use of NaCl as published back in 1967 (Morton Inc. 1967a). Scientists at Morton Inc. had reported that homogeneous mixtures of KCl and NaCl with a weight ratio of KCl:NaCl = 20:80 to 80:20 could be successfully used as salt substitutes. On this basis, Davis and others (1982) developed a flaked salt composition with 30% to 70% KCl and 70% to 30% NaCl by a process which was comprised of first pulverizing the homogeneous mixture of these ingredients to particles with a size smaller than 0.212 mm and subsequent compacting of such admixture into flakes, which were then screened to provide various sizes of particles in the form of flakes. The obtained flaked salt substitute is more homogeneous, coarser, lighter in weight, more cake-resistant, more liquid-absorptive, and flowable in comparison with the corresponding simple mixtures of KCl + NaCl without the above-mentioned preliminary grinding step. Such a product is especially suitable for surface-sprinkling on bakery products like pretzel salt.
Besides NaCl, various inorganic salts have been employed as taste improvers of KCl-based salt substitutes, for instance, calcium chloride as dihydrate (CaCl2•2H2O), or hexahydrate (CaCl2•6H2O), calcium sulfate as dihydrate (CaSO4•2H2O), magnesium sulfate heptahydrate (MgSO4•7H2O), magnesium chloride (MgCl2) or its hexahydrate (MgCl2•6H2O), sodium sulfate (Na2SO4), potassium sulfate (K2SO4), carnallite (KMgCl3•6H2O), kainite (KMgClSO4•3H2O), schoenite [K2Mg(SO4)2•6H2O], as well as some of their particular combinations. Moreover, even water-insoluble or, more precisely, very poorly soluble calcium and magnesium salts such as calcium carbonate (CaCO3), calcium dihydrogen phosphate [Ca(H2PO4)2], calcium hydrogen phosphate [CaHPO4], calcium phosphate [Ca3(PO4)2], magnesium carbonate (MgCO3), and magnesium phosphate [Mg3(PO4)2] have been used for the same purpose.
Among such salt substitute compositions, the simplest concept involves the use of a single TIA. In this manner, Wilson (2002) found that MgSO4•7H2O can be used as the TIA for KCl-based salt substitute of the following composition: 35% to 45% NaCl, 35% to 45% KCl, and 10% to 30% MgSO4•7H2O, eventually with the addition of some suitable anticaking agent, such as silicon dioxide (SiO2). The most effective formulation contained 41% NaCl, 41% KCl, 17% MgSO4•7H2O, and 1% SiO2.
Klinge and others (2009) developed a salt substitute to be used as a table salt in salt hand mills, which is based on a melt of NaCl, KCl, and MgCl2. Such a melt is allowed to cool to form a solid which is subsequently ground and screened to a desired size of particles suitable to be used in hand mills. In this composition, MgCl2 serves not only as the TIA, but also as a technological additive for lowering the melting point of the KCl–NaCl mixture.
Additionally, Rood and Tilkian (1983) described a composition of a salt substitute with reduced sodium content consisting of 40% to 50% NaCl, 25% to 35% KCl, and 15% to 25% MgSO4•7H2O or MgCl2•6H2O, the former being preferred due to the hygroscopicity of magnesium chloride hexahydrate. In such formulation not only the bitterness of KCl has been efficiently suppressed, but also the overall saltiness per unit weight has been slightly enhanced.
Similarly, Deveau and others (1993) found that a combination of magnesium chloride hexahydrate and calcium chloride acts as an effective taste modifier of KCl-containing salt substitute, which proved to be suitable for salting and preserving meat products. Thus, successful compositions were 50% NaCl, 20% to 30% KCl, 10% to 20% MgCl2•6H2O, and 10% CaCl2•6H2O.
The combination of magnesium sulfate and calcium sulfate as a TIA for NaCl–KCl mixtures was described by Joly and others (2012). They developed the salt substitutes of the following preferred compositions:
wherein all of them contained small amounts of colloidal silicon dioxide as an anticaking agent.
- (i)24% KCl, 70% NaCl, 4.5% MgSO4•7H2O, 1.5% CaSO4•2H2O;
- (ii)40% KCl, 50% NaCl, 7.5% MgSO4•7H2O, 2.5% CaSO4•2H2O; and
- (iii)53.3% KCl, 30% NaCl, 10% MgSO4•7H2O, 3.4% CaSO4•2H2O;
Bonorden and others (1997) found that a combination of magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate is an effective TIA for KCl-based salt substitutes. The preferred formulation contained 33.05% KCl, 53.19% NaCl, 11.35% MgCl2•6H2O, and 2.41% MgSO4•7H2O.
The same authors (Bonorden and others 1998) also described that the sensory properties of KCl–NaCl mixtures could be additionally improved by the use of sulfate-containing salt, or a combination of sulfate- and chloride-containing salt or salts. Taste improvers from this invention have been found to be K2SO4, MgCl2•6H2O, CaCl2•2H2O, or CaSO4•2H2O. One of the preferred formulations consisted of 51.5% NaCl, 36% KCl, CaCl2•2H2O, 4% MgCl2•6H2O, 3% K2SO4, and 2% CaSO4•2H2O.
Among the technical solutions for the taste improvement of KCl–NaCl mixtures with a complex mixture of inorganic salts, an outstanding natural one is that described by Heron (1989). He discovered that KCl can be mixed with fully dried total sea salt yielding a complex mixture of good sensory properties. Herein, “total sea salt” means not only NaCl, but a mixture of all dissolved sea salts. The weight ratio of KCl compared with dried total sea salt was such as to give a product with the following composition: 41.5% KCl, 46.6% NaCl, 6.5% MgCl2•6H2O, 2.8% MgSO4•7H2O, 2.2% CaSO4•2H2O, 0.2% CaCO3, and 0.1% MgBr2.
A similar solution was developed by Einarsson and Sigurjonsson (2010) who developed a few low sodium formulations of which the following one is outlined: 69.5% KCl, 20% NaCl, 8.4% Mg-salts (MgCl2•6H2O, MgSO4•7H2O), and 0.2% trace minerals from sea water.
Another interesting solution was reported by Wixforth (1980) who prepared a salt substitute from NaCl and Dead Sea salt which contains carnallite (KMgCl3•6H2O). Of course, the latter does not contain pure carnallite, but also a whole range of “natural” trace minerals from the Dead Sea water, yielding the final product of the following composition regarding main ingredients: 24% to 76% NaCl + 76% to 24% KCl•MgCl2•6H2O.
Somewhat special solutions for taste-masking of KCl-containing salt substitutes are those with stoichiometrically well-defined double salts. In this manner, Sundstroem (1988) discovered that carnallite (KMgCl3•6H2O) and kainite (KMgClSO4•3H2O) can be used as such taste improvers, and preferred formulations were:
Kainite was shown to be of slightly better usefulness, but all these formulations had to be processed with an anticaking agent to avoid clumping.
- (i)1/3 KCl, 1/3 NaCl, 1/3 kainite; and
- (ii)42% KCl, 48% NaCl, and 10% kainite.
Similarly, DeJong and Grobbee (1993) described the use of KMgCl3•6H2O and KMgClSO4•3H2O as the TIA in KCl-based salt substitutes, even in larger weight percentage of the latter. For instance, they found acceptable sensory properties even in a wide range of compositions such as: 0% to 65% KCl, 15% to 70% NaCl, and 5% to 85% carnallite or kainite. The optimal formulations were 16% to 35% KCl, not more than 48% NaCl, and not less than 16% carnallite or kainite.
Zuniga (2008) found that, beside kainite, sodium sulfate (Na2SO4), potassium sulfate (K2SO4), their double salts glaserite (3K2SO4•Na2SO4), as well as schoenite [K2Mg(SO4)2•6H2O] can be used as the TIAs for KCl–NaCl salt substitute formulations. One of the preferred formulations contained 33% KCl, 33% NaCl, and 33% schoenite.
Additionally, not less surprising, a combination of salts with extremely low water solubility such as CaCO3 and MgCO3 was employed as a taste improver for KCl–NaCl formulations. Krotkiewski and others (1987) described the salt substitute composition to be containing 5% to 45% KCl, 40% to 85% NaCl, 2% to 10% CaCO3, and 2% to 10% MgCO3. As a source of NaCl, natural rock salt could be used to yield a product rich in essential microminerals such as iron (Fe), manganese (Mn), copper (Cu), and cobalt (Co). Derrien and Fontvieille (1998) disclosed the use of several calcium phosphates, namely, calcium dihydrogen phosphate [Ca(H2PO4)2], calcium hydrogen phosphate [CaHPO4], calcium phosphate [Ca3(PO4)2], as well as magnesium phosphate [Mg3(PO4)2] as TIAs for KCl-based salt substitutes. A general formula for their preparation was 40% to 50% KCl, 15% to 25% NaCl, 15% to 25% of one or more calcium phosphates, and 8% to 15% magnesium phosphate."
Intestinal absorption of magnesium from food and supplements.
Magnesium absorption is steep until about 120 mg at a time, beyond that it starts to level. It doesn't stop there at all, it's similar to vit C: you keep pushing, you keep absorbing; but the fact that there's a clear decline in the rate must point that we're better adapted to amounts up to more or less 120 mg in a meal. Suchzord suggested people to spread doses throughout the day, and I think he's right.
As the dose of magnesium in a meal increases, the unadsorbed fraction also increases and can complex with onions such as phosphate making them less available. It's suspected that this is what happened in the interesting experiment above, phosphate adsorption wented from 70% to 30% (!) depending on the magnesium dose:Nitric Oxide, KMUD 2014
"[..]thyroid makes your cells able to use magnesium and so take it up, but a big organ like your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your brain and heart and such have trouble getting the magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid, and then you get an exaggerated stress and adrenalin reaction. And low cholesterol is another limiting factor; if you have very low cholesterol you can't respond to increasing your thyroid because one of the basic functions of thyroid is to turn cholesterol into progesterone, pregnenolone and DHEA.
Okay, so what kind of dose of magnesium would you think for that kind of person would be suitable?
About 100 mg at a time as you take the (say) 1-2 mcg of cytomel, or cynomel, 100mg will be plenty for the first 2 or 3 hours of responding to 1 or 2 micrograms."
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View attachment 10498
"The data in Fig. 1 suggest that a 10-mEq dose of MgAc would be optimal
because fractional absorption falls off fairly steeply with higher doses, leaving
a larger fraction of ingested Mg unabsorbed"
Magnesium Conversions
"1 mEq Mg = 0.5 mmol Mg = 12.3 mg Mg"