Our Tarot Reader On The Antagonistic Effects Of Magnesium On Calcium

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Amazoniac

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Garrett Smith: Iron Overload, Calcium Going Awry, And Mineral Balancing
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"The human body contains about 760 mg of magnesium at birth, approximately 5 g at age 4–5 months, and 25 g when adult (1–3)."
It should not be that hard to achieve Such_Saturation over time with occasional supplementation. So instead of an issue with the supply, it's likely an issue with retention or owademand.
 
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If you already have difficulty retaining magnesium and supplement it through the skin, I suspect that a hefty dose not only can turn off the conservation mechanisms for a while, affecting sodium and its related hormone in a negative way, and make the whole situation worse. Loading up on calcium after this occurs shouldn't be good because you'll be opposing magnesium during a vulnerable gap, flushing it out and now having to deal with the temporary dysregulation of hormones and minerals.
 
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If you already have difficulty retaining magnesium and supplement it through the skin, I suspect that a hefty dose not only can turn off the conservation mechanisms for a while, affecting sodium and its related hormone in a negative way, and make the whole situation worse. Loading up on calcium after this occurs shouldn't be good because you'll be opposing magnesium during a vulnerable gap, flushing it out and now having to deal with the temporary dysregulation of hormones and minerals.

Post was doubled, so now I have an empty canvas to leave burtlan a poem.
The sky is blue
But not as blue
as my feeling
when I log in
and there's no you
 
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raypeatclips

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If you already have difficulty retaining magnesium and supplement it through the skin, I suspect that a hefty dose not only can turn off the conservation mechanisms for a while, affecting sodium and its related hormone in a negative way, and make the whole situation worse. Loading up on calcium after this occurs shouldn't be good because you'll be opposing magnesium during a vulnerable gap, flushing it out and now having to deal with the temporary dysregulation of hormones and minerals.

I believe this explains a very negative reaction I had to hefty magnesium supplements topically. How would you advise to supplement magnesium?
 
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I believe this explains a very negative reaction I had to hefty magnesium supplements topically. How would you advise to supplement magnesium?
For the current week, I'd consider this but ingesting sodium bicarbonate along, and waiting some time to reintroduce dairy. Skim milk should be the worst in this regard.
It's a reality that we have to accept: you have to match how much calcium you can ingest according to your vigor. It's easy to get an excess with dairy, it stops being a healthy food when it affects you in a negative way, regardless of its safety. If you don't believe it, you know what to do..
 
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I'm a belieber that cravings are still a reliable guide for purified and isolated nutrients. If it's objectionable, it will be harsh on you and most of the time have an overall negative effect. You have to combine with other foods and, if needed, spread the amount throughout the day in a way that tastes good and makes you crave it, not to mask the flavor. Oral magnesium chloride is an example, if you sprinkle as a salt on meals, it improves palatability, contrary to concentrated shots that happen to be excessive. This doesn't apply for substances that are taken to have a purging effect.
 

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For the current week, I'd consider this but ingesting sodium bicarbonate along, and waiting some time to reintroduce dairy. Skim milk should be the worst in this regard.
It's a reality that we have to accept: you have to match how much calcium you can ingest according to your vigor. It's easy to get an excess with dairy, it stops being a healthy food when it affects you in a negative way, regardless of its safety. If you don't believe it, you know what to do..

Were you recommending sodium bicarbonate following the negative reaction or generally? I don't feel like my sodium is low anyone the reaction I mentioned was months ago. Would you still recommend that for raising magnesium?
 
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Were you recommending sodium bicarbonate following the negative reaction or generally? I don't feel like my sodium is low anyone the reaction I mentioned was months ago. Would you still recommend that for raising magnesium?
In general, as a prevention. However the main focus should be on potassium and sodium, and let calcium and magnesium as coadjuvants; not because they're not important, but because as long as you're eating a nourishing diet and not doing anything too strange, you'll be getting enough of both to support recuperation. In other words, most of the time the need for crazy amounts of magnesium is because people are not matching the amount of calcium to their current state.
 
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If we turn on common sense for a while we would ditch magnesium chloride (or any bitter salt for that matter) without question, the taste is nasty. Perhaps it's time to consider different forms. When it's associated with organic acids, magnesium performs slightly better anyway.

I wonder why magnesium gluconate isn't more popular. Maybe because it provides only about 6% of elemental magnesium?
Acetic and malic acids are fine but in moderation. A combination of all three might be a good solution, you avoid all excesses.

Magnesium taurate is absurd and out of question. It provides 9% of elemental magnesium and it will explode your body from so much taurine. Imagine for each 100mg of magnesium having to deal with 1000mg or so of taurine.

Magnesium glycinate is up to debate. Some angelords have a few complaints about it and report adverse effects. It's much better than taurate (14% of elemental magnesium) but isolated amino acid supplementation is always tricky.

Magnesium bicarbonate is very good, but it depends on the quality of the water used. I wonder if it's possible to do it with SodaStream + coconut water.
Magnesium bicarbonate supplementation - Toxinless
Each ounce of this concentrated water will have around 40-44mg of very-absorbable magnesium
 
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Regina

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If we turn on common sense for a while we would ditch magnesium chloride (or any bitter salt for that matter) without question, the taste is nasty. Perhaps it's time to consider different forms. When it's associated with organic acids, magnesium performs slightly better anyway.

I wonder why magnesium gluconate isn't more popular. Maybe because it provides only about 6% of elemental magnesium?
Acetic and malic acids are fine but in moderation. A combination of all three might be a good solution, you avoid all excesses.

Magnesium taurate is absurd and out of question. It provides 9% of elemental magnesium and it will explode your body from so much taurine. Imagine for each 100mg of magnesium having to deal with 1000mg or so of taurine.

Magnesium glycinate is up to debate. Some angelords have a few complaints about it and report adverse effects. It's much better than taurate (14% of elemental magnesium) but isolated amino acid supplementation is always tricky.

Magnesium bicarbonate is very good, but it depends on the quality of the water used. I wonder if it's possible to do it with SodaStream + coconut water.
Magnesium bicarbonate supplementation - Toxinless
I thought "we" liked magnesium l-threonate. I have the Double Wood brand.
 
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I wonder why magnesium gluconate isn't more popular. Maybe because it provides only about 6% of elemental magnesium?
Acetic and malic acids are fine but in moderation. A combination of all three might be a good solution, you avoid all excesses.
The more I think about this combination, the more I realize how therapeutic it should be.

L-Malate's Plasma and Excretion Profile in the Treatment of Moderate and Severe Hemorrhagic Shock in Rats

"In the guidelines of the German Society of Trauma, the application of crystalloid solutions like Ringer-lactate, Ringer-acetate, and Ringer-malate is recommended [1], with respect to the field of emergency medicine, to treat hemorrhage, caused by accidental trauma, and the consecutively following life-threatening consequences which represent one of the main reasons of preventable death [24]. In addition, in the guidelines of the German Society of Anaesthesiology [all there] and Intensive Care Medicine balanced solutions containing malate or acetate are recommended for the treatment of critically ill patients, whereas lactate is not [5]. Malate's positive effects in certain clinical approaches, including investigations as regards its effect on energy metabolism, cardioprotection, fibromyalgia, physical stamina, and cancer, have been shown [613]. Even though research regarding the treatment of hemorrhagic shock (HS) and its consequences is very scarce, the protection by administering malate is described as well [1416]. In contrast, treatment of severe HS with Ringer-lactate is debatable, since earlier studies showed detrimental effects in a rat model of severe HS [17, 18], whereas acetate-based balanced salt solution appeared to be predominant [19]. Certainly, acetate is reported to have vasodilatory effects resulting in cardiovascular depression in vitro as well as in vivo [2022]. On the other hand, it is postulated that malate's metabolism is decelerated compared to that of acetate [23, 24], but not confirmed in hemorrhagic shock."

[9] http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/57/57_261.pdf

Just like the EMF-sensitive person is capable of warning people about subtle effects of such radiation, critically ill people are more susceptible to disturbing supplementation.

Crystalloid fluid therapy: is the balance tipping towards balanced solutions?

"Intravenous saline solutions were first introduced into clinical practice in the Sunderland cholera epidemic of 1831 [1]. More than 150 years later, not only is 0.9 % saline the most commonly used intravenous fluid in critically ill patients, it is also the fluid that has been administered to the largest number of critically ill patients in randomised controlled trials [2, 3]. It is cheap and readily available, and more than a million litres of intravenous 0.9 % saline are administered to patients around the world every day [1]; however, although it is widely known as ‘normal saline’, 0.9 % saline is neither normal nor physiological [4]. In fact, the concentration of chloride in 0.9 % saline is approximately 1.5 times that of normal plasma. Compared to low chloride solutions like Hartmann’s, rapid infusion of 0.9 % saline results in acidosis due to reduced strong ion difference, reduced renal perfusion and glomerular filtration rate, a tendency towards reduced urinary output, and even a pronounced increase in body weight [5, 6]. Recent data raise the possibility that administration of 0.9 % saline [7] may be harmful and suggest that using ‘balanced’ solutions with lower, more physiological, chloride concentrations than 0.9 % saline may be preferable [8, 9, 10]."

"Shaw and colleagues were able to demonstrate, for the first time, an association between increasing amounts of chloride administered during crystalloid resuscitation and increased in-hospital mortality which persisted after controlling for the total volume of fluid administered [13], raising the possibility that the chloride content of resuscitation fluids might be a modifiable risk factor for adverse outcomes."

"This study adds to previous data which demonstrated an association between the use of chloride-rich fluids and adverse outcomes compared to the use of balanced solutions in surgical patients [9] and patients with sepsis [10] and is consistent with a single centre, open label, before-and-after period pilot study which showed that a strategy of avoiding chloride-rich fluid improved renal outcomes [8]. Overall, it appears that the association between the administration of chloride-rich fluids and adverse outcomes is robust, reproducible and most likely “dose dependent”." "Despite [confounding factors], the hypothesis that balanced crystalloids offer a safer alternative to fluid resuscitation than 0.9 % saline is a compelling one"

"Another unresolved issue is which anion to use instead of chloride. Some balanced solutions use lactate, others acetate or combinations of acetate and malate (Table 1). Whether the type of anion (buffer) makes any difference is largely unknown. When orienting at plasma composition it should probably be bicarbonate; however, this would require a more complicated and thus costly production process (i.e. two-chamber systems) to ensure stability."
Magnesium bicarbonate water for example has to be used relatively fast otherwise it's not as effective.​

This is not to say to chloride is dangerous, but that there are more balanced approaches that should be prefered instead. Magnesium chloride is offensive (or in technical terms, tastes like ***t) and this is not a good sign. The only side effect of discontinuing its use is burtlan and Pierre no longer being BFF with you.
However, as gbolduev would probably comment, it depends on the person. Some people can benefit from more chloride, so magnesium chloride will be a good supplement. But it's definitely not a balanced one. If you feel good on it, keep doing it.

This is what I've been using to determine the amount of Mg for each specific form:
24.31 g/mol (magnesium molecular weight, the sole atom being the molecule itself)/molecular weight of the magnesium form g/mol = elemental magnesium/100 (as michael94 would say: for per-cent-age)
So:
2431 g/mol/molecular weight of the magnesium in question g/mol = % of elemental magnesium

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/conten...drich/Product_Information_Sheet/228648pis.pdf
 

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Seems awfully strange to have an entire conversation about calcium and its potential evils
without one mention or reference regarding Phosphorous consumption. It would also seem
that every study cited re: calcium danger would fall short in some manner if there's no control for phosphorous consumption.
I am not disputing the issues surrounding mineral dosages but its strikingly odd that this omission is in this conversation.

High phosphorous consumption would undoubtedly increase calcium needs and in substantially higher numbers than discussed
in this thread would be protective. High phosphorous consumption without a commensurate dose of calcium would be/is disastrous
 
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Seems awfully strange to have an entire conversation about calcium and its potential evils
without one mention or reference regarding Phosphorous consumption. It would also seem
that every study cited re: calcium danger would fall short in some manner if there's no control for phosphorous consumption.
I am not disputing the issues surrounding mineral dosages but its strikingly odd that this omission is in this conversation.

High phosphorous consumption would undoubtedly increase calcium needs and in substantially higher numbers than discussed
in this thread would be protective. High phosphorous consumption without a commensurate dose of calcium would be/is disastrous
That's a good point, but if anything, it's an argument if favor of avoidance of excess meat consumption since in dairy, calcium is more or less balanced with phosphorus. However, this doesn't seem to be the main concern here: it's the excessive calcium intake in relation to magnesium while trying to improve a weak metabolism. In this situation, the body is much more susceptible to the negative effects of higher calcium intakes than magnesium. With plenty of sun exposure and high magnesium intake, you can get away with relatively low calcium intakes; the opposite is not true. Milk and oranges by themselves as the main staples will provide you more than 4g of calcium a day. I find it unnecessary and excessive even if your metabolism is as sharp as burtlan's canines. Now if it's working for some people, I'm open to learn how they're making it sustainable.
 
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https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2043320363_Ananda_S_Prasad
Trace Elements in Human Health and Disease - Vol II

"There are many similarities between potassium and magnesium metabolism, although magnesium is much harder to displace from the cell than potassium."

"Cow's milk has magnesium in reasonable amount, but the high phosphate and calcium content adversely affect the magnesium utilization. This is important in infancy and early childhood. Experimental and biochemical aspects of magnesium metabolism will be discussed by Aikawa in this monograph. The reader may also be interested in comprehensive reviews by Walser (1967) and Wacker and Parisi (1968)."

"Experimental magnesium depletion in animals is enhanced by high protein and high calcium intake (Bunce et al, 1963; Colby and Frye, 1951). Large volume losses of gastrointestinal fluids simultaneously enhance deficiency, partly because of the associated interruption of food intake, but also because of significant loss of magnesium in the fluid when the volume is large (Barnes, 1969; Thoren, 1963)."

"Intestinal malabsorption for a number of reasons is a common factor in magnesium deficiency (Balint and Hirschowitz, 1961; Booth et al, 1963; Fletcher et al, 1960; Gerlach et al, 1970; Goldman et al, 1962; Heaton and Fourman, 1965; Mclntyre et al, 1961; Muldowney et al, 1970; Nielsen and Thaysen, 1971; Opie et al, 1964)."

"There are several endocrine disturbances associated with hypomagnesemia. Hyperthyroidism is associated with hypomagnesemia, while hypothyroidism is associated with hypermagnesemia (Jones et al, 1966b; Tapley, 1955)."

"Primary and secondary aldosteronism causes magnesium loss (Cohen et al, 1970; Gitelman et al, 1969; Mader and Iseri, 1955)."

"Chelation of Mg2+ by free fatty acids could produce significant lowering of Mg2+ in serum and also affect magnesium at the cell membrane. Magnesium at physiological concentration is precipitated by free fatty acids in concentrations that occur in alcohol withdrawal."

"Magnesium has been used in anesthesia. Belsche et al. (1964) used various calcium and magnesium salts in dogs and rabbits and found that calcium gluconate and magnesium gluconate produced clinically satisfactory spinal anesthesia lasting 2 hr. There were no neurological sequelae."

"Prolonged fasting is associated with a continued renal excretion of magnesium (Drenick et al., 1969). After 2 months of fasting, the deficit in some subjects may amount to 20% of the total body content of magnesium. Despite evidence for depletion of magnesium in muscle, the concentration of magnesium in plasma remains unchanged. The excess acid load presented for excretion to the kidney and the absence of intake of carbohydrate might be factors contributing to the persistent loss of magnesium. The magnitude of the excretion of magnesium parallels the severity of the acidosis. The ingestion of glucose decreases the urinary loss of magnesium."

"Hypomagnesemia is associated frequently with malabsorption due to a variety of causes. In general, there appears to be a correlation between the degree of hypomagnesemia and the severity of the underlying disease. The increased fecal loss of magnesium that has been demonstrated in this disorder may be due to steatorrhea (Gitelman and Welt, 1969)."
 
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Magnesium bicarbonate is very good, but it depends on the quality of the water used. I wonder if it's possible to do it with SodaStream + coconut water.
Magnesium bicarbonate supplementation - Toxinless

After having consumed this for a number of consecutive months, I feel as though it has too much of an alkalizing effect, to the point of not being a healthy long term solution for getting daily 200mg+ of mag. I suppose its okay to have it around to sip on, but after awhile of consciously trying to drink 400mg daily, I got weird symptoms like fleeting chest pain and headaches.:2cents:
 
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After having consumed this for a number of consecutive months, I feel as though it has too much of an alkalizing effect, to the point of not being a healthy long term solution for getting daily 200mg+ of mag. I suppose its okay to have it around to sip on, but after awhile of consciously trying to drink 400mg daily, I got weird symptoms like fleeting chest pain and headaches.:2cents:
Have you tried magnesium chloride or sodium bicarbonate to make sure that it's related to that effect? I suggest you try magnesium first to avoid sodium confusion.
 

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