Our Tarot Reader On The Antagonistic Effects Of Magnesium On Calcium

Discussion in 'Magnesium' started by Amazoniac, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    This is likely the implication, being that Magnesium relaxes cramps
     
  2. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Yeah. Some of the vit D is stored in adipose tissue. Since at night you're the most vulnerable and is the time when most breakdown of fats occurs, supplemental vit D-induced cramps tend to appear during that time if you don't have enough magnesium.
     
  3. dfspcc20

    dfspcc20 Member

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    That's the same as RBC magnesium, correct?
    $49 isn't too bad.
    Magnesium RBC Blood Test - Request A Test
     
  4. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  5. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yes, that's the test. Combined with nail analysis I think it can give pretty good indication of magnesium status.
     
  6. haidut

    haidut Member

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  7. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    It's from a book (top of the page).
     
  8. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Can you please find what reference 332 is? It seems interesting as it claims insulin can cause tetany when magnesium is low. That would imply insulin lowers calcium as well somehow but the text claims it actually pushes it inside the cell together with magnesium.
     
  9. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I'll try. But in any case: open anesthesiology book,it's all there
     
  10. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Lol, thanks gbolduev :):
    I did open a few, they usually contradict themselves depending on when and where they were written. And no mention of insulin and tetany.
     
  11. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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  12. Regina

    Regina Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  13. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Zeus, I thought that it would be an easy search through Google Books, but it wasn't(( I tap out.
     
  14. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Yeah, same here. A brief attempt could not locate either the book or its references. He should have at least copied the references so that people can follow up. There is nothing copyrighted about a list of references.
     
  15. Dotdash

    Dotdash Member

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    I have experimented quite a lot with calcium/magnesium ratios based first on RP's reference to experiments in which an adequate amount of any one of the minerals calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium will be protective against loss of the others. I have not personally found this to be true. I do think it's more complex and varied than simply ingest "X" amount of each or don't ingest "X" amount. Adele Davis' quote from Let's Eat Right to Keep Fit: " In times of prosperity, the daily calcium intake of the Finns and Swiss averaged six grams; many primitive races obtain even larger amounts of calcium." That is not a recommendation to ingest that amount - merely a notice that such seemingly large amounts are not harmful. In another of her comments from the same book she states that persons on a fat-free diet absorb little or no calcium from food and often in pregnant and menopausal women the symptoms of calcium deficiency are more quickly alleviated by adding fat to the diet rather than calcium. Again, from the same book she referenced Dr. Johnston of the Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit. He found that even though a generous amount of calcium was supplied by the diet, if no vitamin D was taken, more calcium was excreted than was eaten. This would tilt the calcium balance as much as if no calcium intake occurred. I think studies are helpful but I find there is always incompleteness in some manner or another. Everyone I'm acquainted with in Peatland has become accustomed to questioning studies because we see through the educated eyes he provided us. Usually we find there is unrevealed data or in plain venacular - there is more to the story than we are privy to.
     
  16. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    After studying @mayweatherking's work in depth, I just realized that I stole part of it:
    The Danger Of Calcium In A Low Metabolic Rate... Is It True? How To Lower Prolactin Then?

    Zeus, not underestimating you there; thought that you were on one of those "15 posts and 5 new threads in 1 min" sprees.
    Do you still take supplemental vit D every day? If so it might explain why you can't handle that well more than 1g of calcium.
    Ray mentioned that 10000IU can never be too much but I have my doubts about it.
    I'm slowly realizing that there are many nutrients that are best taken spread throughout the day. It's safer, you prevent excesses.
     
  17. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Adverse Effects of High‐Calcium Diets in Humans

    "adverse symptoms of calcium excess can include renal failure, soft tissue calcification, irritability, headache, and various other clinically evident signs"

    "The term “milk-alkali syndrome” reflects the increased risk for development of this disorder associated with concurrent consumption of high amounts of both calcium and alkali (carbonate, bicarbonate, or hydroxide) owing to the promotion of calcium retention by alkali."
    "[..]a review of [] available reports suggests that 30% of the reported cases involved consumption of high amounts of calcium along with additional alkali, either as sodium bicarbonate or as various alkali salts found in proprietary antacids. In this group, supplemental calcium intake was 2.5-16.5 g/day and many patients were apparently long-time antacid users who had increased their dose of calcium, which precipitated the classic MAS. Of interest, however, is that another 30% of recent cases involved persons who developed adverse symptomology apparently as a result of high-calcium intakes alone (2-10.8 g additional calcium per day for 0.2-30 years), mostly derived from calcium carbonate. Moreover, the remaining 40% of reported cases were patients in whom associated clinical conditions promoted adverse symptoms at intakes of supplemental calcium as low as 1-2 g/day. Concurrent use of thiazide diuretics, preexisting renal failure, dehydration, alkalosis or emesis, and overconsumption of fat-soluble vitamins were identified as possible complicating factors in these cases. Notable in this list of mitigating circumstances are cases of concurrent vomiting (e.g., bulimia or hyperemesis of pregnancy), which promote alkalosis and thus increase the risk of developing MAS."

    "In one study, more than one-fifth of patients for whom a calcium carbonate supplement was prescribed as a source of calcium and to prevent peptic ulcer symptoms developed hypercalcemia.[7] In another recent case report, a bulimic patient who developed symptoms of calcium overdose ate yogurt and took calcium carbonate to forestall osteoporosis."

    "It should be noted that low-calcium intakes are also a potential precursor for the development of renal stones, and can contribute to bone loss. A recent prospective epidemiologic study found that moderate amounts (e.g., 850 mg/day) of dietary calcium were associated with reduced risk of stone formation. This apparently beneficial effect of calcium may be due to the ability of calcium consumed with meals to bind dietary oxalate, which is an important contributor to the development of calcium oxalate stones. It is unclear, however, whether chronic higher doses of calcium (> 2 g/day) will have a negative or positive effect on stone formation."

    "It has been proposed that a dietary calcium:magnesium molar ratio greater than 3.5 (milligram ratio > 5) may pose a risk for inducing magnesium deficiency.[51] For a person consuming 280 mg/day (10 mmol/day) Mg (the current RDA), a dietary calcium intake at the NIH-CCC level of 1500 mg/day (37.5 mmol) results in a calcium:magnesium molar ratio of 3.8 (mg ratio of 5.4). Nicar and Paks[2] measured intestinal magnesium absorption in subjects fed a low (200 mg Ca/day) or high (1900 mg Ca/day) calcium diet. During the period of high calcium intake, subjects showed lower magnesium absorption than during the period of low calcium intake. In a study of acute responses to calcium carbonate supplementation in premenopausal women, Whocares[3] found that urinary magnesium was significantly elevated when subjects received a 1000-mg calcium supplement.
    The study by Clarkson et al.[54] is often cited as evidence of the potentially adverse effects of high-calcium diets on magnesium metabolism. They studied subjects with normal or reduced renal function who had been given 2 g or 8 g of calcium. Magnesium absorption and serum magnesium fell in most subjects given extra calcium. However, magnesium retention as measured by chemical balance studies over 2-3 weeks of treatment was unchanged, owing to a decrease in urinary magnesium losses. These observations on magnesium balance are consistent with those of other investigators who report that increasing oral intakes of calcium do not significantly affect magnesium retention.[55,56] Thus, high-calcium diets probably do not alter magnesium status under normal circumstances despite an apparent effect on magnesium absorption. This is due to the powerful compensatory function of the kidneys to produce an essentially magensium-free urine during dietary magnesium deficiency.[57]
    However, additional attention needs to be given to the possible adverse effects of high-calcium diets on magnesium status in special populations. These would include people with impaired renal function, especially those to whom additional calcium supplements are provided therapeutically as a phosphate binder, and in medical conditions associated with increased risk of magnesium depletion, such as diabetes, gastrointestinal malabsorption syndromes, alcoholism, etc.[57]"

    "Calcium acetate and calcium carbonate salts are known to act as effective phosphate binders in the intestinal lumen, and thus are prescribed at up to 2000 mg/day in patients with chronic renal failure to decrease dietary phosphorus absorption in the clinical management of hyperparathyroidism. Schiller et al.[59] showed that in normal individuals, an oral dose of 25 mmol (1000 mg) calcium resulted in a 58% reduction in the efficiency of phosphorus absorption from a meal containing 360 mg phosphorus. However, in our opinion, it is unlikely that high-calcium diets will significantly alter phosphorus status in healthy individuals because of the strong compensatory ability of the kidney to respond to low phosphorus intakes."

    "Changes in absorption, as seen for iron, phosphorus, magnesium, and zinc, have been documented to occur with high calcium intakes. Based on the studies reviewed here, the level of dietary calcium that would interfere with the metabolism of these minerals is within the range of the recommended optimal calcium intake of 1000-1500 mg/day as suggested for adults and adolescents by the NIH-CCC."

    "Based on our review of the literature, we concur with the position taken by the recent NIH Consensus Conference on Optimal Calcium Intakes that “practices that might encourage total calcium intake to approach or exceed 2,000 mg/day seem more likely to produce adverse effects and should be monitored closely”"​
     
  18. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    The high intakes in these studies are from people that use calcium carbonate, absorbing way less than they're taking, they're only building the beautiful intestinal corals. But with fat-free milk you can have the worst of the excesses, because a lot is absorbed, while also absorbing plenty of phosphate and it's not balanced with the fat-solubles. Perhaps when it's ingested with fat, part of the calcium is excreted as soapy material. It tends to be more stimulating this way as well, so more nutrients are consumed to support it, one of them being magnesium; if you're on the edge of a deficiency, it can't be good.
     
  19. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    @Amazoniac I respect your fascination about magnesium; it always serves as a reminder for me to get some magnesium in my diet... I think with all the information you gathered about this precious mineral, maybe you should sell some mysterious magnesium supplement that has special ingredients akin to Idealabs stuff for maximum utilization in the body.. You benefit and we benefit! I will be first in line..
     
  20. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Instead of magnesium I would probably sell cotton candy with artificial vitamin A or K2 flavors.
     
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