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Getting Plenty Of Magnesium Without Supplements: Tough But Possible

Discussion in 'Magnesium' started by Amazoniac, Dec 31, 2018.

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  1. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    I'm not going to lie: it isn't easy to consume extreme amounts of it from foods, and I couldn't push it to 3 grams as I initially had in mind. The list is bigger this time because it reflects a lowering of standards [: idi] trying to include all decent sources that should add up at the end of the day.

    Regarding the exotic foods listed, it's called desperation (but some of them do provide massive amounts, like snail [230 mg/serving]). I had to include shellfish in the example because they're brutal sources.

    There are two comforting points:

    - If (according to Raj) foods easily leach their magnesium to the water in which they were cooked, the liquid can be reduced to a flavoring sauce instead of discarded, avoiding then unnecessary nutritional losses (applies to various nutrients). With this simple measure there might be a surprising increase in total amount consumed: there were foods having nearly double their content when you compare raw to boiled.

    - It's possible to overestimate the supplement contribution when you isn't dispersing it thorautaghout the day:

    - 5x (meals in a day, each providing) 40 mg with 65% (respective) absorption = 130 mg
    - 3x 40 mg with 65% + 2x (40 mg + 300 mg: 340 mg with 20%) = 80 + 135 = 215 mg
    With an unfair comparison by the addition of 600 mg from supplements in two meals, the difference is only 85 mg. It changes depending on the situation however you get the idea.
    But I digest.

    Here's the list:

    Most foods here have close to 30 mg or more per serving (there are exceptions: broccoli, shiitake, but I thought it was worth including them).

    upload_2018-12-31_16-38-43.png
    upload_2018-12-31_16-38-50.png
    upload_2018-12-31_16-39-24.png
    upload_2018-12-31_16-40-25.png

    Some notes:

    The usefulness of this kind of list becomes clear when you copy to your nutrition app, it should only take a few minutes with side-by-side widows.

    There are certain foods that were featured because I found conflicting contents after adding them (being lower in the app), so decided not to exclude; at least we know that their content is not low.

    Magnesium in whole grains might not be as available as in other sources. Spriting or cooking them thoroughly must improve this aspect.

    Mineral water can be a great source, especially because you'll drink it on empty stomach, so there will be nothing getting in the way of absorption (such as meal roughage).

    Since the majority of magnesium absorption doesn't occur in the initial parts of the small intestine, the way that fermentable carbs might enhance the absorption must be by complexing it with organic acids.

    If you can find completely defatted nut powders, they can be good sources and will provide plenty of trace minerals.

    And an example (2 grams):

    upload_2018-12-31_16-40-44.png

    upload_2018-12-31_16-41-11.png

     
  2. A.R

    A.R Member

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    Thanks for the list great job
     
  3. Hazarlar

    Hazarlar Member

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    You forgot buckwheat - the main source!

    I have been eating it my whole life, but currently reducing it's consumption due to high oxalates.

    Still floating every week ...
     
  4. achillea

    achillea Member

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    Dark chocolate, halibut and coffee. The magnesium in coffee is associated with improved metabolic rate and a lower risk of insulin resistance. I oz of high quality chocolate is around 95 mg of Mg+

    It may not just be the amount of magnesium as the use and availability to use. How hard is it to get to the magnesium in spinach or chard?
     
  5. Hazarlar

    Hazarlar Member

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  6. Sheila

    Sheila Member

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    Mmmm Amazoniac
    Would you like a side of Angiostrongylus cantonensis with those snails?
    Alas, I can't find the Mg content for those critters on cronometer.
    And more seriously, thank you for the list and your considerations.
    Happy New Year.
    Sheila
     
  7. Lejeboca

    Lejeboca Member

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  8. schultz

    schultz Member

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    In the post you linked, Dr. Carolyn Dean says...

    "To say that coffee can help you with your magnesium requirements is just plain wrong! Coffee is a well-known diuretic and appetite suppressant – you will lose magnesium in your urine the more coffee you drink and it stimulates your adrenals to spew out adrenaline that can overstimulate a magnesium-deficient heart making it fire off abnormal beats."

    If anybody is interested, I posted some info in this thread where I attempted to refute the idea that coffee causes magnesium loss. I've never seen a study directly addressing this issue, so I find it a bit strange that people like to talk about coffee causing magnesium loss, especially people of science (and self purported "Doctor of the Future")

    She also has another post here about coffee and magnesium. IMO Ray writes with more conviction "Caffeine: A Vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen"


    ... or alternatively my love for coffee is making me blind to the facts... that's always a possibility I suppose! :coffee
     
  9. OP
    Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

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    Indeed.
    I've excluded some fishes that the content was low or moderate but fatty. Halibut is an example of the first (for some reason in the app it was provoding 20-something mg), since its name reminded of haidut and cooking it doesn't sound nice, I decided to exclude; mackerel is an example of the second.

    - Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

    However!

    - Intestinal Absorption and Factors Influencing Bioavailability of Magnesium - An Update
    Fractional magnesium absorption is significantly lower in human subjects from a meal served with an oxalate-rich vegetable, spinach, as compared with a meal served with kale, a vegetable with a low oxalate content

    "Mg forms insoluble, non-absorbable complexes with oxalic acid in the gastrointestinal tract."

    "The present study is, to our knowledge, the first report clearly demonstrating an inhibitory effect of an oxalate-rich vegetable on Mg absorption in human subjects, based on the stable-isotope technique. The mean fractional apparent Mg absorption from the labelled test meal served with spinach was about 35% lower than from the test meal served with kale in the present study. However, these results should not be interpreted as suggesting that spinach is a poor source of dietary Mg. The observed decrease in fractional apparent Mg absorption can be assumed to be, at least partly, counterbalanced by the approximately 30% higher Mg content of spinach as compared with kale (Holland et al. 1994; Souci et al. 1994); native Mg content of spinach was 26% higher than that of kale in the test meals evaluated in the present study."

    "Oxalates in plants are present as water soluble, bound to Na or K or present as free oxalates, as well as water-insoluble compounds, i.e. calcium oxalate and magnesium oxalate (Hodgkinson, 1977b; Souci et al. 1994). It is not clear to what extent insoluble oxalates dissolve in the gastric juice and it could be speculated that soluble oxalates would have a more pronounced negative impact on mineral and trace element absorption due to their ability to form complexes with minerals and trace elements in the gastrointestinal tract. In addition, calcium oxalate has been suggested to be absorbed intact (Hanes et al. 1999) and it could be hypothesised that the more soluble magnesium oxalate could also be absorbed intact. In the present study, a large proportion (88 %) of total oxalates was present as water-soluble oxalates in spinach."
    And it must be possible to improve this further if you cook it with sodium bicarbonate as Raj suggests to prevent oxalic acid from reacting with magnesium (forming the insoluble complexes) during digestion.

    I hesitated about including milk and coffee but the final quote is relevant to them. With coffee you might eventually flush it out but it was used in the body prior to that, and if you're in a good state, it shouldn't compromise you.
    "Some parasites, such as the quite common pinworm (Enterobius vermiculares), can deprive the body of Mg (6)."​

    Sheila, is it true that when you meet people you extend your arm waiting for the hand kiss? Have thoughted about turning your face as well so that you give them the impression that it's unpleasant for you to endure that?
    I wasn't aware of it, thanks to you.

    --
    - Magnesium bioavailability from mineral water. A study in adult men

    (had to leave the links so that it's readable)

    "In humans, a wide range (10–75%) of magnesium absorption rates has been reported (Danielson et al, 1979; Schwartz et al, 1984; Schuette et al, 1990; Fine et al, 1991; Brink & Beynen 1992; Lönnerdal et al, 1993; Lönnerdal, 1995; Benech & Grognet, 1995; Serfaty-Lacrosniere et al, 1995; Knudsen et al, 1996; Fairweather-Tait & Hurrell, 1996; Andon et al, 1996; Abrams et al, 1997; Sojka et al, 1997) and have been recently reviewed (Ekmekcioglu, 2000); higher values have been observed in animal studies (Lönnerdal et al, 1993; Lazichi Lakshmanan et al, 1984; Kikunega et al, 1995). In these previous studies, various protocols have been applied, including balance studies (Lönnerdal et al, 1993; Lönnerdal, 1995; Serfaty-Lacrosniere et al, 1995; Andon et al, 1996), true bioavailability studies with stable (Schwartz et al, 1984; Schuette et al, 1990; Knudsen et al, 1996; Sojka et al, 1997) and have been recently reviewed (Ekmekcioglu, 2000); higher values have been observed in animal studies (Lönnerdal et al, 1993; Lazichi Lakshmana et al, 1984; Kikynega et al, 1995). In these previous studies, various protocols have been applied, including balance studies (Lönnerdal et al, 1993; Lönnerdal, 1995; Sarfaty-Lacrosniere et al, 1995; Andon et al, 1996), true bioavailability studies with stable (Schwartz et al, 1984; Schuette et al, 1990; Knudsen et al, 1996; Sojka et al, 1997) and/or radio-isotopic techniques (Danielson et al, 1979; Mountokalakis et al, 1980; Schwartz et al, 1984), and gastrointestinal washing (Fine et al, 1991); these may account, at least in part, for the wide range of observed results. Other elements such as the magnesium formulation may also be of concern as pharmaceutical (Schuette et al, 1990; Fine et al, 1991) or nutritional origin of preparations that have been administered (Schwartz et al, 1984; Abrams et al, 1997). Furthermore, the magnesium load administered tested varies widely among studies (from 35 to 960 mg), notwithstanding the age of subjects (Schwartz et al, 1984; Schuette et al, 1990; Andon et al, 1996; Abrams et al, 1997; Sojka et al, 1997), their physical condition and the proximity to meals for administration (Andon et al, 1996). The 59% bioavailability rate observed in the present study lies in the upper range reported in the literature for adolescents and adults. Considering the low level of Mg administered (1.2 mmol [30 mg]), our observations are consistent with the 65% bioavailability of 1.5 mmol Mg reported by Fine et al (1991) [the one in question above]. This latter study underlines that fractional absorption falls progressively with each increment of intake. Ekmekcioglu (2000) [*] has plotted fractional absorption rates of Mg from liquids, from various studies. He has shown that the fractional absorption rate is high at low Mg load and decreases exponentially with increasing carrier amounts. Several authors have outlined that higher bioavailability is observed when a given amount of Mg is distributed over a day rather than being consumed in a single bolus (Schuette et al, 1990; Fine et al, 1991; Lönnerdal, 1995); consequently a regular water intake distributed throughout the day would be expected to lead to a higher absorption."

    *Intestinal bioavailability of minerals and trace elements
     
  10. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

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  11. Wagner83

    Wagner83 Member

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    Cooking rice with the right mineral or coconut water can make a significant difference in mineral intake. I use about 1L of water per cup of rice. Of course I cook until complete absorption of water, could preparing the mineral water with magnesium hydroxide the day before help further? Some mineral waters are high in calcium, magnesium or both. If the minerals are incorporated into the rice it should be delivered to the body body over a longer time frame than a supplament.
     
  12. Rafe

    Rafe Member

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    So 50 cups of coffee a day.:ss2
    Happy caffeinated New Year Everyone.
     
  13. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Buckwheat, blackstrap molasses, spinach, almonds, black beans, halibut, dark chocolate, pumpkin seeds - best sources
     
  14. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    That will not correct a deficiency though
     
  15. aquaman

    aquaman Member

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  16. A.R

    A.R Member

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    Anyone consider/have experienced making a home made magnesium spray by dissolving Epsom salts in water?
     
  17. schultz

    schultz Member

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    Milk seems like a pretty good source, especially given the amount a lot of us drink. It think it has a high bioavailability (correct me if I am wrong).

    Calorie for calorie it has more than potatoes, assuming skim milk is used (215mg for 666 calories). It might be more consistent as well since it doesn't rely on soil levels and farmers are pretty good about their cows nutrition. Everybody supplements their livestock with vitamins and minerals.
     
  18. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    Good topic , eating +2000 cal from good food and you dont really need any supplement.

    How much Mg we really need? That another question.
     
  19. bzmazu

    bzmazu Member

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    I agree...And after all this...that's really the question, no?
     
  20. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    How much magnesium can we really retain ? That’s another question
     
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