When I read things like this that suggest how nutrient balance works I end up having to diagram it similar to diagraming a sentence in English class before I can completely understand it. Probably an experiment with more potassium is in my near future.
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Your Thoughts On Potassium?
- Thread starter mayweatherking
- Start date
When I read things like this that suggest how nutrient balance works I end up having to diagram it similar to diagraming a sentence in English class before I can completely understand it. Probably an experiment with more potassium is in my near future.
RatRancher
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- Joined
- Feb 11, 2017
- Messages
- 41
I believe I was low k and mg for years during my keto days.
Here I am learning about the relationship of all these minerals,plus Peats lack of a stellar endorsement of starch (potatoes have lots of K).
Spoiler alert, - this may not be peaty -My protocol now involves about 16 ounces of low sodium spicy V 8 vegetable juice a day plus magnesium bicarbonate,homemade from milk of magnesia and soda water,plus recently adding Magnoil from Idealabs.
The benefits I see, as a 51 yo male, less stiff muscles,better sleep...and most importantly, my heart rate does not shoot up to the triple digits after eating. This was the issue that took my to numerous cardiologists and GI specialists to no avail.
I do take cyproheptadine occasionally as well as some other vitamins, but nothing has helped me as much as the v8 and magnesium.
On chrono I make sure I go over the 4700 mg .
One qt of o.j. gives 1800 mg of k 96 mg of Magnesium
1 qt 2% milk gives 1366 mg K and 107 mg mag.
So Peats 2 qt milk 1 qt o.j. gives about 4532 mg K, and 300 mg Mag..
Based on this I believe he supports the 4700 mg rda of potassium .
The issue is how to get it.
Here I am learning about the relationship of all these minerals,plus Peats lack of a stellar endorsement of starch (potatoes have lots of K).
Spoiler alert, - this may not be peaty -My protocol now involves about 16 ounces of low sodium spicy V 8 vegetable juice a day plus magnesium bicarbonate,homemade from milk of magnesia and soda water,plus recently adding Magnoil from Idealabs.
The benefits I see, as a 51 yo male, less stiff muscles,better sleep...and most importantly, my heart rate does not shoot up to the triple digits after eating. This was the issue that took my to numerous cardiologists and GI specialists to no avail.
I do take cyproheptadine occasionally as well as some other vitamins, but nothing has helped me as much as the v8 and magnesium.
On chrono I make sure I go over the 4700 mg .
One qt of o.j. gives 1800 mg of k 96 mg of Magnesium
1 qt 2% milk gives 1366 mg K and 107 mg mag.
So Peats 2 qt milk 1 qt o.j. gives about 4532 mg K, and 300 mg Mag..
Based on this I believe he supports the 4700 mg rda of potassium .
The issue is how to get it.
jzeno
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- Nov 20, 2017
- Messages
- 543
Gerson's therapy (famous protocol for cancer) basically revolved around the theory that when cells become stressed they accept sodium in place of potassium (plan b). His protocol consists of two basic elements: Nutrition intervention and elimination intervention. The elimination is the coffee enemas which simply act to open up the bile ducts (caffeine had that effect on bile ducts when administered rectally), thereby being able to more efficiently expel numerous waste products out of the blood than normal. The diet intervention was basically starving the body of sodium, in some cases protein because he still saw sodium leaving the body even when he cut off protein and sodium, and then flooding it with Potassium in the form of easily digested, raw fruit and vegetable juices that were selected for their mineral content (Potassium, etc.)--but low in sodium.
BIOLOGICAL BASIS OF THE GERSON THERAPY: Salt and Water Management and Tissue Damage Syndrome From a lecture by Gar Hildenbrand, 1990.
https://gerson.org/gerpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Biological-Basis-of-the-Gerson-Therapy.pdf
>The Gerson Therapy is a salt and water management. There is a whole chunk of the medical literature on salt and water management: and that salt and water management also means hormone manipulation, and manipulation of the energy production and the integrity of the human cell. What that meant to the average person who’s trying to get his or her body to work better is that, when one controls the types of salts that are found in the individual cell – the building blocks of our lives – and when one controls the water content – how much water there is in the cell – one can affect the way that the cell functions: the health of the cell, the energy production capabilities of the cell, the ability of the cell to stay alive and to stay normal.
>What Gerson did was to eliminate sodium from the diet, to supplement a high potassium diet with an additional potassium, and to find ways to remove toxins from the bloodstream that inhibit normal cellular enzyme functions, metabolism and respiration
>As early as 1957, Christine Waterhouse and Albert Craig, working on a National Cancer Institute grant, were able to measure water retention in cancer patients, which was a general systemic edema, not visible, not discernible clinically, but measurable.
>...in every instance a gain in weight as a result of forced (fat) feeding was due almost entirely to a gain in intracellular fluids.”
>Gerson saw that by restricting protein and by giving a high-potassium, low-sodium, basically all fruit and vegetable diet, with fresh raw juices and much freshly prepared raw food, edemas could be absorbed. He saw that this could be encouraged, the course of tuberculosis could be affected, and patients could be saved.
>"If potassium fills the sites to which it may bind on this macromolecule, the cell will organize water. If potassium is lost from those association sites, and sodium is bound, the cell will lose much of its ability to structure water, and it will swell with much more water."
>What this means, from Gerson’s point of view, is that when you are sick, when your tissues are damaged, when your cells have lost potassium and taken on sodium and extra water, we must reduce the challenge of sodium and load potassium into the system. Taking supplemental potassium in addition to a low sodium diet helps potassium to compete for association sites in the cell. When you do this, you create a situation in which potassium may again be bound.
>When you create a high potassium environment for a damaged cell, you can get potassium to hook on to one or more association sites, because those sites will take whatever’s there, sodium or potassium – when the cell is damaged. When the protein-lipid macromolecule is in a damaged state, if you can get potassium to bind at one site, a marvelous phenomenon occurs that Ling calls interactive cooperativity – something we could use more of in the world of humans – in which potassium binding at one site will trigger potassium binding at adjoining sites. If potassium can be bound at one site, other sites will begin to prefer potassium over sodium, too. So if you can just start the process, the cell will flip back, like dominoes, to a high potassium load; interactive cooperativity. At the same time, the cell’s water organizes, the water content of the cell shrinks, and ATP production increases. That is the result of successful salt and water management of tissue damage syndrome.
>To refresh our memories, let’s review what we have discussed: potassium supplementation, sodium restriction, calorie restriction, protein restriction, and thyroid supplementation. When you provide high potassium, low sodium environment, even badly damaged cells may be able to structure their water somewhat. When water is structured, the cell is able to control its water content, because its water is approaching the kind of molecular organization seen in crystals. This molecular organization limits the amount of water in the cell.
>Gerson’s attitude toward metabolism was a bit like that of the makers of the old Volkswagen “bug” toward the towards the car’s cabin heater. Those heaters had two positions, “on” and “off”. If you wanted to regulate the cabin heat, you had to do it yourself, manually. The carmakers probably thought, “if you vant heat, you got heat. If you vant it off, shut it off”. Gerson wanted metabolism, so he turned it on with large loading dosages of iodides and iodine, and up to five grains of thyroid.
> Thyroid hormone signals mitochondria to multiply and increase production of ATP. This gives your cells, like little planets, more industrial cities producing more energy. Iodides and iodine affect some tissues directly in the same way.
--
I think the importance of Potassium is still not fully understood and most physicians do not care because truth be told, there just isn't money to be made for your run-of-the-mill doctor or researcher, yet--ironically, because we know so little about them.
Take away: We could all probably benefit (all things being equal--which in many cases they are not) from more Potassium and less Sodium, I think. To what extent? I'm not sure. I'm trying to figure that out for myself. If Gersonw as able to cure degenerative disease by about 50% of the most severe cases ("hopeless") through this protocol and a large number of deaths in the USA are degenerative disease, wouldn't it stand to reason there's some merit in applying some of what he learned? That seems reasonable to me.
Dr. Gerson's nutritional guidelines for people who were not sick also suggested low sodium, but no added Potassium: https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/gerson-guidelines-for-general-nutrition-pdf.12450/
BIOLOGICAL BASIS OF THE GERSON THERAPY: Salt and Water Management and Tissue Damage Syndrome From a lecture by Gar Hildenbrand, 1990.
https://gerson.org/gerpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Biological-Basis-of-the-Gerson-Therapy.pdf
>The Gerson Therapy is a salt and water management. There is a whole chunk of the medical literature on salt and water management: and that salt and water management also means hormone manipulation, and manipulation of the energy production and the integrity of the human cell. What that meant to the average person who’s trying to get his or her body to work better is that, when one controls the types of salts that are found in the individual cell – the building blocks of our lives – and when one controls the water content – how much water there is in the cell – one can affect the way that the cell functions: the health of the cell, the energy production capabilities of the cell, the ability of the cell to stay alive and to stay normal.
>What Gerson did was to eliminate sodium from the diet, to supplement a high potassium diet with an additional potassium, and to find ways to remove toxins from the bloodstream that inhibit normal cellular enzyme functions, metabolism and respiration
>As early as 1957, Christine Waterhouse and Albert Craig, working on a National Cancer Institute grant, were able to measure water retention in cancer patients, which was a general systemic edema, not visible, not discernible clinically, but measurable.
>...in every instance a gain in weight as a result of forced (fat) feeding was due almost entirely to a gain in intracellular fluids.”
>Gerson saw that by restricting protein and by giving a high-potassium, low-sodium, basically all fruit and vegetable diet, with fresh raw juices and much freshly prepared raw food, edemas could be absorbed. He saw that this could be encouraged, the course of tuberculosis could be affected, and patients could be saved.
>"If potassium fills the sites to which it may bind on this macromolecule, the cell will organize water. If potassium is lost from those association sites, and sodium is bound, the cell will lose much of its ability to structure water, and it will swell with much more water."
>What this means, from Gerson’s point of view, is that when you are sick, when your tissues are damaged, when your cells have lost potassium and taken on sodium and extra water, we must reduce the challenge of sodium and load potassium into the system. Taking supplemental potassium in addition to a low sodium diet helps potassium to compete for association sites in the cell. When you do this, you create a situation in which potassium may again be bound.
>When you create a high potassium environment for a damaged cell, you can get potassium to hook on to one or more association sites, because those sites will take whatever’s there, sodium or potassium – when the cell is damaged. When the protein-lipid macromolecule is in a damaged state, if you can get potassium to bind at one site, a marvelous phenomenon occurs that Ling calls interactive cooperativity – something we could use more of in the world of humans – in which potassium binding at one site will trigger potassium binding at adjoining sites. If potassium can be bound at one site, other sites will begin to prefer potassium over sodium, too. So if you can just start the process, the cell will flip back, like dominoes, to a high potassium load; interactive cooperativity. At the same time, the cell’s water organizes, the water content of the cell shrinks, and ATP production increases. That is the result of successful salt and water management of tissue damage syndrome.
>To refresh our memories, let’s review what we have discussed: potassium supplementation, sodium restriction, calorie restriction, protein restriction, and thyroid supplementation. When you provide high potassium, low sodium environment, even badly damaged cells may be able to structure their water somewhat. When water is structured, the cell is able to control its water content, because its water is approaching the kind of molecular organization seen in crystals. This molecular organization limits the amount of water in the cell.
>Gerson’s attitude toward metabolism was a bit like that of the makers of the old Volkswagen “bug” toward the towards the car’s cabin heater. Those heaters had two positions, “on” and “off”. If you wanted to regulate the cabin heat, you had to do it yourself, manually. The carmakers probably thought, “if you vant heat, you got heat. If you vant it off, shut it off”. Gerson wanted metabolism, so he turned it on with large loading dosages of iodides and iodine, and up to five grains of thyroid.
> Thyroid hormone signals mitochondria to multiply and increase production of ATP. This gives your cells, like little planets, more industrial cities producing more energy. Iodides and iodine affect some tissues directly in the same way.
--
I think the importance of Potassium is still not fully understood and most physicians do not care because truth be told, there just isn't money to be made for your run-of-the-mill doctor or researcher, yet--ironically, because we know so little about them.
Take away: We could all probably benefit (all things being equal--which in many cases they are not) from more Potassium and less Sodium, I think. To what extent? I'm not sure. I'm trying to figure that out for myself. If Gersonw as able to cure degenerative disease by about 50% of the most severe cases ("hopeless") through this protocol and a large number of deaths in the USA are degenerative disease, wouldn't it stand to reason there's some merit in applying some of what he learned? That seems reasonable to me.
Dr. Gerson's nutritional guidelines for people who were not sick also suggested low sodium, but no added Potassium: https://raypeatforum.com/community/attachments/gerson-guidelines-for-general-nutrition-pdf.12450/
Hypothetical hormonal mechanism by which potassium-rich diets benefit patients with rheumatoid arthritis. - PubMed - NCBI
The GC, cortisol, plays a role in normal K homeostasis and the reverse is also seen with higher K intake leading to higher cortisol secretion and biosynthesis. Results of a recent clinical trial showed elevated serum cortisol followed K supplementation.
Not sure how reliable this study is.
The GC, cortisol, plays a role in normal K homeostasis and the reverse is also seen with higher K intake leading to higher cortisol secretion and biosynthesis. Results of a recent clinical trial showed elevated serum cortisol followed K supplementation.
Not sure how reliable this study is.
That's what the study was reinforcing.
I have not seen other research to support this though.
I have seen a tonne of people report waking up much easier in the mornings, after using potassium supplements.
GorillaHead
Member
Dave Clark
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- Jun 2, 2017
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- 2,001
I am wondering based on that study if less potassium at bedtime would be better for sleep though, since you want cortisol low when going to sleep. Of course, higher cortisol will wake you up better I suppose, but i believe most people have sleeping issues as opposed to waking up issues.
I'm not so keen on understanding the cortisol aspect as much as considering that potassium increases sugar intake, and potassium intake without sugar accompanying it- easily leads to low blood sugar and creating stress which leads to adrenaline and cortisol production.
GorillaHead
Member
We need more info on this. Very curious about ratio. Cause i want to keep aldosterone low. But I am worried if i just consume high sodium and low potassium i will end up with high aldosterone again.
Doing 4 grams of sodium a day and 3-4 grams if potassium.
Doing 4 grams of sodium a day and 3-4 grams if potassium.
lilsticky
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- Nov 27, 2019
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i think potassium is k
Ras
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- Sep 12, 2015
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Consider the Yonomami: they consume abundant potassium, and around 200 milligrams of sodium each day. They enjoy excellent blood pressure and heads full of hair all their life.
All the reading and ruminating in the world will get you far less than experimentation. If you want to know what will happen to you, you must experiment. For one week, try eating very low sodium foods, adding no sodium to your meals, and supplementing with copious potassium citrate. Plan the next week based on the results of the previous week.
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