Potassium: Does It Have Effect On Blood Sugar?

Discussion in 'Minerals' started by yerrag, Sep 21, 2018.

Tags:
  1. yerrag

    yerrag Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,339
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manila
    First time I heard about potassium having an effect on blood sugar, it was @Jon mentioning it as helping the absorption of sugar into cells. Then today, as I was reading the RBTI thread started by @tara, there was mention, I believed by @Miguel, that high-Brix intake (I presume high potassium as well) needed to be accompanied by sugar intake.

    This made be think about how I felt having low blood sugar when I drink fresh vegetable juices, and I wonder why I don't get the same feeling when I drink fresh fruit juices. And I thought maybe it's because fruit juices are rich in sugar, and veggie juices not. But when I drank satsuma orange juice, I would feel low blood sugar effect. Satsuma is sour orange, and isn't really that sweet, so maybe its potassium/sugar ratio is high enough to cause a blood sugar lowering effect on me.

    I already put two teaspoons of sugar with my fresh satsuma orange juice, but still I feel the low blood sugar effect. It also raises my blood pressure (due to low blood sugar). I'll try doubling the amount of sugar tomorrow, to see if the effect would be gone.

    Yet I've been supplementing by taking magnesium ascorbate with potassium ascorbate and potassium bicarbonate, in a water solution. I take it an hour after mealtime. At each intake, it's 280 mg elemental magnesium/500 mg elemental potassium. I don't feel low blood sugar though, so maybe the magnesium is keeping the potassium from affecting my blood sugar.

    What are you thoughts about my suspicions?
     
  2. Amazoniac

    Amazoniac Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    7,036
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Not Uganda
    Maayos na pagmamasid.

    https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2018/08/14/best-way-supplement-potassium/
    "[Potassium] stimulates insulin, and so you could get hypoglycemia if you took potassium on an empty stomach. That doesn’t happen when you eat potassium in food because the potassium is mixed in with the—even vegetables have at least a little bit of glucose, where the potassium drips into your system, and the glucose drips into your system at the same time, and you get the proper balance."
     
  3. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,800
    if we are talking about the supposed effect of insulin stimulating ingress of glucose into cells, then potassium has to be said to be much more powerful in doing so. According to eye-opening stuff I've read recently thanks to folks here on the forum.

    Dr. Peat has said potassium is far more important than insulin in regulating blood sugar.

    @yerrag physiologically 500mg of potassium after a meal is not far out of the ordinary. We can easily get 2000mg of potassium in a meal with lots of fruit and cooked veggies and even meat.

    The effect of potassium I think is to speed up osmotic uptake by cells.

    When diabetics go into ketoacidosis, they frequently have very high blood potassium levels. It is from osmotic pressure drawing potassium out of the cells and of course is very dangerous.

    I may be all wrong about the above. It is my very shallow understanding at the moment.
     
  4. Jon

    Jon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    554
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Colorado
    @yerrag tgis is just my observation and anecdotal experience so take it for what it is but I've noticed that when potassium is not bound in a matrix with carbohydrate (fruit, potatoes, fruit juices) then both sugar and potassium don't have quite the harmonious effect (when isolated). This may be why your particular juice is not having the effect you're looking for when you add sugar.

    I can eat close to 500g of carbs a day from milk, potatoes, rice, and fruit/juices, and I get no issues with indigestion, blood sugar regulation, or acne. Plain sucrose? I get issues with all of that. I don't think isolated sugar or potassium is evil or anything, just that people who are compromised a certain way cannot handle it properly, the natural packaging it tends to come in (whole natural foods) are best in this situation.
     
  5. Sobieski

    Sobieski Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    406
    Gender:
    Male
    I've read/heard somewhere that Potassium kind of acts like a glue for sugar molecules to form chains with each other- this then allow the molecules to be taken up by cells and stored as glycogen. This, I believe, negates the need for as much of an insulin response as the process of utilising sugar is more efficient, whereas without Potassium more insulin is necessary to get the job done. If I'm wrong, I'm welcome to anyone else's input.
     
  6. Jon

    Jon Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2017
    Messages:
    554
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Colorado
    Hmm that's very interesting. You think maybe that's why it seems to work so much better to eat foods with both instead of ingesting the two in their isolated versions, albeit simultaneously?
     
  7. Sobieski

    Sobieski Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2017
    Messages:
    406
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd believe so, yeah, most foods in their natural form that are high in carbohydrates are also high in potassium such as fruits/tubers etc and they yield superior health in comparison to dense carb sources devoid of potassium (I.E grains, although these also do bring several other disadvantages not just related to potassium).
     
  8. paymanz

    paymanz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,650
    Gender:
    Male
    its probably always good to have some potassium in high carb meals, because insulin also helps potassium get into cells. Which is good.

    And it also prevent your serum potassium to fall after a high carb meal.
     
  9. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,339
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manila
    Salamat po! Paano ka natuto managalog? Ang lalim ng salita mo napapunta pa ako sa diksyonaryo :D

    Chris explains it well, but he is giving the impression that taking potassium from food gets us off from dealing with the blood sugar going down. But fresh vegetable juices still causes my blood sugar to go down. I've taken potassium chloride 800mg (elemental) after meals along with magnesium ascorbate (320mg elemental) 3x a day with no issues. But maybe if I took it on an empty stomach, there could be an issue. I still prefer KCl over potassium citrate when taken after meal. And prefer potassium bicarbonate over potassium citrate, taken on empty stomach but maybe with some sugar to go along with it. Citrate has the effect of excreting calcium in urine, as @Mito would share.

    True. Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.:
    In one study, it was found that the insulin molecule itself, immunoreactive insulin, accounted for only about 8% of the serum's insulin-like action. The authors of that study believed that potassium was the main other factor in the serum that promoted the disposition of glucose. Since potassium and glucose are both always present in the blood, their effects on each other have usually been ignored.

    I'll test that out. The glass of fresh satsuma juice still doesn't taste quite as sweet with 2 tsp. of muscovado sugar added to it. If I added more sugar to get that sweet taste, and then drink that, I can find out if it will get in well. I can probably not rely just on my feel, but on my blood pressure to tell if it went in well.

    If potassium can do that, it would certainly be something that needs to be taken advantage of. Insulin triggers many processes that are stress-related such as fatty oxidation and lipolysis. With the use of potassium, we can minimize enabling those processes, it would seem.
    Having vegetable juice after a meal is what I'm thinking would do that, as vegetable juice is rich is potassium but low in sugar. And that property makes it inadvisable to take in veggie juice on an empty stomach.


     
  10. paymanz

    paymanz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,650
    Gender:
    Male
    I wish i could find a refrence for that.
     
  11. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2015
    Messages:
    6,800
    See above as in

    True. Glucose and sucrose for diabetes.:
    In one study, it was found that the insulin molecule itself, immunoreactive insulin, accounted for only about 8% of the serum's insulin-like action. The authors of that study believed that potassium was the main other factor in the serum that promoted the disposition of glucose. Since potassium and glucose are both always present in the blood, their effects on each other have usually been ignored.
     
  12. paymanz

    paymanz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,650
    Gender:
    Male
    I will dig to find that study.
     
  13. paymanz

    paymanz Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Messages:
    2,650
    Gender:
    Male
    I did some research on pubmed about this subject , to find the mechanism, because thats very interesting i cant remebem correctly ,i think i found something but im not sure,lol . Now i tried alot to find that again but i cant!

    Im not sure ,its few years ago and i cant remember exact thing.
     
  14. Hairfedup

    Hairfedup Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2017
    Messages:
    281
    Gender:
    Male
    Not sure if relevant but West African tribes particularly in the South of Ghana eat cassava and/or yams (with no salt) every single day, getting a very adequate amount of potassium and tended to have very low insulin resistance (back when they were studied).
     
  15. tara

    tara Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2014
    Messages:
    10,053
    Gender:
    Female
    High brix intake usually is high sugar intake.
     
  16. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,339
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manila
    Sorry, I got that part wrong. There's nothing I could tie in with potassium and its effect on blood sugar with RBTI.
     
  17. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,339
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manila
    I got this in reverse. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, proteolysis, glycogenolysis (glycogenesis), gluconeogenesis, and ketogenesis (Insulin: Understanding Its Action in Health and Disease, Sonksen and Sonksen, British Journal of Anaesthesia 85 (1), pp 69-79 2000

    But notwithstanding, I suppose potassium simply increases insulin sensitivity. Less insulin is needed to balance blood sugar.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Obi-wan

    Obi-wan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    1,120
    Gender:
    Male
    Potassium levels influence multiple physiological processes, including[53][54][55]

    • resting cellular-membrane potential and the propagation of action potentials in neuronal, muscular, and cardiac tissue. Due to the electrostatic and chemical properties, K+
      ions are larger than Na+
      ions, and ion channels and pumps in cell membranes can differentiate between the two ions, actively pumping or passively passing one of the two ions while blocking the other.[56]
    • hormone secretion and action
    • vascular tone
    • systemic blood pressure control
    • gastrointestinal motility
    • acid–base homeostasis
    • glucose and insulin metabolism
    • mineralocorticoid action
    • renal concentrating ability
    • fluid and electrolyte balance
    Renal filtration, reabsorption, and excretion[edit]
    Renal handling of potassium is closely connected to sodium handling. Potassium is the major cation (positive ion) inside animal cells [150 mmol/L, (4.8 g)], while sodium is the major cation of extracellular fluid [150 mmol/L, (3.345 g)]. In the kidneys, about 180 liters of plasma is filtered through the glomeruli and into the renal tubules per day.[64] This filtering involves about 600 g of sodium and 33 g of potassium. Since only 1–10 g of sodium and 1–4 g of potassium are likely to be replaced by diet, renal filtering must efficiently reabsorb the remainder from the plasma.

    Sodium is reabsorbed to maintain extracellular volume, osmotic pressure, and serum sodium concentration within narrow limits; potassium is reabsorbed to maintain serum potassium concentration within narrow limits.[65] Sodium pumps in the renal tubules operate to reabsorb sodium. Potassium must be conserved also, but, because the amount of potassium in the blood plasma is very small and the pool of potassium in the cells is about thirty times as large, the situation is not so critical for potassium. Since potassium is moved passively[66][67] in counter flow to sodium in response to an apparent (but not actual) Donnan equilibrium,[68] the urine can never sink below the concentration of potassium in serum except sometimes by actively excreting water at the end of the processing. Potassium is excreted twice and reabsorbed three times before the urine reaches the collecting tubules.[69] At that point, urine usually has about the same potassium concentration as plasma. At the end of the processing, potassium is secreted one more time if the serum levels are too high.[citation needed]

    With no potassium intake, it is excreted at about 200 mg per day until, in about a week, potassium in the serum declines to a mildly deficient level of 3.0–3.5 mmol/L.[70] If potassium is still withheld, the concentration continues to fall until a severe deficiency causes eventual death.[71]

    The potassium moves passively through pores in the cell membrane. When ions move through pumps there is a gate in the pumps on either side of the cell membrane and only one gate can be open at once. As a result, approximately 100 ions are forced through per second. Pores have only one gate, and there only one kind of ion can stream through, at 10 million to 100 million ions per second.[72] The pores require calcium to open[73] although it is thought that the calcium works in reverse by blocking at least one of the pores.[74] Carbonyl groups inside the pore on the amino acids mimic the water hydration that takes place in water solution[75] by the nature of the electrostatic charges on four carbonyl groups inside the pore.[76]

    Diets low in potassium can lead to hypertension[83] and hypokalemia

    The AIs for potassium are: 400 mg of potassium for 0-6-month-old males, 700 mg of potassium for 7-12-month-old males, 3,000 mg of potassium for 1-3-year-old males, 3,800 mg of potassium for 4-8-year-old males, 4,500 mg of potassium for 9-13-year-old males, and 4,700 mg of potassium for males that are 14 years old and older. -Many older people have high blood pressure...

    Fresh fruits and vegetables are good dietary sources of potassium. The body responds to the influx of dietary potassium, which raises serum potassium levels, with a shift of potassium from outside to inside cells and an increase in potassium excretion by the kidneys.

    From Wikipedia
     
  19. OP
    yerrag

    yerrag Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    4,339
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manila
    For the past two days, I've diluted the fresh satsuma juice with water to twice the volume, and used the same 2 tsp of sugar per cup of it. It didn't give me a low sugar feeling anymore. When I get the chance to make veggie juice (from celery, cucumber, green bell pepper, bitter gourd, and pineapple juice), I'll also add enough to it, to see if it will also keep me from feeling drained after drinking it.

    Since coconut water is very high in potassium, but isn't very sweet, yet doesn't give me the empty feeling, I thought to check its nutrition data. It turns out it has sodium, calcium, and magnesium (though not as much as potassium), but I think it's enough to keep potassium from lowering blood sugar levels significantly.
    For 100g of coconut water, there's 2.6g of sugar (not really much), 250 mg potassium, 105 mg sodium, 25 mg magnesium, and 24 mg calcium. Perhaps these minerals modulate the effect of potassium on blood sugar.

    Next up, I'll try adding 210 mg sodium (bicarbonate), 50 mg magnesium (bicarbonate), 48 mg calcium (bicarbonate) to the 200 ml glass of satsuma juice (which contains 500 mg potassium).

    If it confirms that adding sodium, magnesium, and calcium will balance out the effect of potassium, I will have two options to keep my blood sugar from going down when drinking veggie juices (as well as satsuma juice): add sugar or add electrolytes.
     
  20. Peater Piper

    Peater Piper Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2016
    Messages:
    538
    Gender:
    Male
    I tried finding studies in the past showing potassium could function like insulin. I couldn't find anything. I also tested my blood sugar after many meals of potatoes or white rice. No real difference in post-prandial readings, though obviously not the most scientific test. I'm skeptical of potassium having insulin-like qualities, or rather, having acute effects on glucose, but I do believe potassium is important for long term glucose homeostasis.
     
Loading...