Why are large numbers birds suddenly dropping dead ?

[Nick]

In essence, you are stating that invisible and untrackable satellites have been consistently irradiating particular areas of Scandinavia in order to produce in numerous populations of birds a form of radiation sickness that is somehow gradually hopping to other species too and behaving predictably like a regular viral outbreak. I don't buy it, sorry.

Invisible? Untrackable? Where did you get this idea? List of Starlink and Starshield launches - Wikipedia
They affect the whole planet, and this is a global phenomenon with birds dying. Did you look at the links I posted from Arthur Firsteburg's newsletter? There are many citations there.

There is also an additive effect of non native EMF with the biological effects of natural geomagnetic storms, as detailed by Robert Becker in "The Body Electric," that makes the far north more vulnerable. Recently solar activity has been fairly high, with last week a 9 hour M-class solar flare producing a 2 day long proton storm at the Arctic region for example. There is good evidence that flu epidemics tend to line up with solar sunspot maximums. I think I will make a new thread on this soon since people here do not seem interested.

 

[David PS]

Number of satellites in orbit in 2023 | Statista

As of February 2023 the United States had the highest number of satellites in orbit, amounting to 5,798.

www.statista.com

 

[Nick]

I should add to my previous posts that every one of these near daily rocket launches blasts a hole in the protective ozone layer that serves to block cosmic radiation, yet another insult to the cells and mitochondria of all living things.

 

[TheSir]

Invisible? Untrackable? Where did you get this idea? List of Starlink and Starshield launches - Wikipedia
They affect the whole planet, and this is a global phenomenon with birds dying. Did you look at the links I posted from Arthur Firsteburg's newsletter? There are many citations there..

Since it is impossible that universal satellite irradiation is causing a strictly localized sickness, the only reasonable explanation is that these areas are being specifically targeted by satellites. Thus, until you're able to demonstrate that there are static satellites irradiating these particular very localized areas, we can only assume that they are invisible and untrackable, should they exist at all.

Emphasis: this is is not a global phenomenon, but a localized phenomenon that is bound to a particular time and location. Birds are not mass-dying to flu or any other cause elsewhere in the Europe at this time.

I did not look into any of the links since I find your statements self-defeating to a degree where no amount of data or reasoning could validate them. I don't doubt that your sources could be informative in other ways, nor do I dispute the effect of solar flares on our wellbeing. As far as the context and premises of above discussion goes, however, whatever reasoning you have in mind just does not and cannot apply.

 

[Nfinkelstein]

There is good evidence that flu epidemics tend to line up with solar sunspot maximums. I think I will make a new thread on this soon since people here do not seem interested.

I for one am interested. Please post the evidence it would be fascinating.

 

[Peater]

In essence, you are stating that invisible and untrackable satellites have been consistently irradiating particular areas of Scandinavia in order to produce in numerous populations of birds a form of radiation sickness that is somehow gradually hopping to other species too and behaving predictably like a regular viral outbreak. I don't buy it, sorry.

It's an easy way to spot people that aren't familiar with the inverse square law.

Anyway, solar panel 'farms' kill birds and insects by frying them with huge amounts of good old reflected infrared. No satellites needed.

 

[Nick]

It's an easy way to spot people that aren't familiar with the inverse square law.

Anyway, solar panel 'farms' kill birds and insects by frying them with huge amounts of good old reflected infrared. No satellites needed.

The inverse square law applies to amplitude of EMF but the severity of non-thermal biological effect does not vary in a linear relationship with amplitude. What you are referring to with infrared is the thermal effect of EMF (as you probably know infrared is a band of EMF just like visible light). The following is quoted from "Policy Brief on Electrosmog" by Arthur Firstenburg

"Because EMFs are not a foreign substance to living beings, a toxicology model does not apply and there is not a dose response: reducing the power does not reduce the effect. Even a signal that is almost immeasurably weak can interfere with normal biological functioning (8). “While the dose rate/SAR concept is adequate for description of acute thermal effects, it is not applicable for chronic exposures to N[on]T[hermal] M[icro]W[aves].” (9). Even at near-zero power levels, microwave radiation has been found to change the structure of DNA (10) and alter brain waves (11). Some studies have even found an inverse dose response. When the power of the radiation was reduced 1000-fold, damage to the blood-brain barrier increased (12). A review of 113 studies found that radiation with the lowest power tended to cause the greatest ecological damage (5). In another review of 108 experimental studies, a lower exposure level tended to have a greater biological effect, and the difference was highly significant (p < 0.001) (13)."

(5) Cucurachi et al. A review of the ecological effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (RF-EMF). Environment International 51: 116-140 (2013). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412012002334/pdfft?isDTMRedir=true&download=true”download=true
(8) Allan H. Frey. Is a toxicology model appropriate as a guide for biological research with electromagnetic fields? Journal of Bioelectricity 9(2): 233-234 (1990). https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.3109/15368379009119811
(9) Igor Belyaev. Duration of Exposure and Dose in Assessing Nonthermal Biological Effects of Microwaves. In Dosimetry in Bioelectromagnetics (CRC Press 2017), pp. 171-184.
(10) Y. Belyaev et al. Resonance effect of millimeter waves in the power range from 10–19 to 3 x 10–3 W/cm2 on Escherichia coli cells at different concentrations. Bioelectromagnetics 17: 312-321 (1996). https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/(SICI)1521-186X(1996)17:4<312::AID-BEM7>3.0.CO;2-6
(11) William Bise. Low power radio-frequency and microwave effects on human electroencephalogram and behavior. Physiological Chemistry and Physics 10(5): 387-398. Low power radio-frequency and microwave effects on human electroencephalogram and behavior - PubMed
(12) Bertil R. R. Persson et al. Blood-brain barrier permeability in rats exposed to electromagnetic fields used in wireless communication. Wireless Networks 3: 455-461 (1997). https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1023/a:1019150510840.pdf
(13) Andrew Wood, Rohan Mate and Ken Karipidis. Meta-analysis of in vitro and in vivo studies of the biological effects of low-level millimetre waves. Journal of Exposure Science & Environmental Epidemiology 31: 606–613 (2021). https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-021-00307-7.pdf

source: Electrosmog: A Policy Brief

 

[Nick]

I for one am interested. Please post the evidence it would be fascinating.

The later chapters of Robert Becker's "The Body Electric" talk about the additive effects of not native EMF and natural geomagnetic fluctuations. Arthur Firstenburg's "The Invisible Rainbow" is another good book that talks about influenza and EMF, although he is mostly focused on non native EMF. I can go dig up some of the citations from the Body Electric if you'd like a sample without having to buy the book or find it online (it can probably be found for free on somewhere like the web archive).
Edit: it can be borrowed for free here: The body electric : electromagnetism and the foundation of life : Becker, Robert O : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Peater]

the severity of non-thermal biological effect does not vary in a linear relationship with amplitude.

No, but it does vary.

 

[Nick]

No, but it does vary.

Yes, I believe so based on personal experience. But the scientific literature is not even clear on this.

From Cucurachi et al. A review of the ecological effects of radiofrequency electromagnetic fields (RF-EMF). Environment International 51: 116-140 (2013). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160412012002334/pdfft?isDTMRedir=true&download=true”download=true
"Information was collected from 113 studies from original peer-reviewed publications or from relevant existing reviews...In 65% of the studies, ecological effects of RF-EMF (50% of the animal studies and about 75% of the plant studies) were found both at high as well as at low dosages. No clear dose–effect relationship could be discerned."

Edit: much like how a radio picking up a weak signal can play at high volume, it is not necessarily the dose but the information contained in the frequency, pulsation and modulation that does biological harm.

 

[tokimaturi]

They're killing infected silver foxes and minks at fur farms now due to infections. It does seem strange. I mean, influenca A virus is a RNA virus that can effect humans and has had vaccines developed for it. Has Gates adapted his inhalers for bird flu or something?

 

[Nick]

this is is not a global phenomenon, but a localized phenomenon that is bound to a particular time and location. Birds are not mass-dying to flu or any other cause elsewhere in the Europe at this time.

Birds and bird species have been dying off around the world (with a sporadic and heterogeneous distribution) due to EMF for several decades at least since the introduction of cell phones in the mid 1990s, if not over a century since the invention of radio and radar. To some degree populations come to adapt to the new electromagnetic conditions but every time the infrastructure changes it seems that there are further increases in death. Why do you think that the death would be homogenous across the world at any exact period in time when the exact recipe of electromagnetic soup will be different in every location, as well as differences in other factors affecting the health of different birds and groups of birds?

 

[TeslaFan]

I should add to my previous posts that every one of these near daily rocket launches blasts a hole in the protective ozone layer that serves to block cosmic radiation, yet another insult to the cells and mitochondria of all living things.

A hole cannot be punched into ozone because ozone is not a firm material but an ongoing chemical reaction between UV light and oxygen - causing oxygen (O2) to split and then form unstable ozone (O3) for a short time - and this is an ongoing process. There is more ozone generated when sun is perpendicular to Earth surface, and less when sunlight angle is sharp (South and North pole). The ozone "hole" is just a thin layer of ozone.

 

[Nick]

A hole cannot be punched into ozone because ozone is not a firm material but an ongoing chemical reaction between UV light and oxygen - causing oxygen (O2) to split and then form unstable ozone (O3) for a short time - and this is an ongoing process. There is more ozone generated when sun is perpendicular to Earth surface, and less when sunlight angle is sharp (South and North pole). The ozone "hole" is just a thin layer of ozone.

"Radicals react with ozone on very short time scales, minutes to hours, so that direct injection into the stratosphere over a limited area (a rocket plume, for example) will cause a prompt, localized, ozone “hole.” "
Martin Ross, Darin Toohey, Manfred Peinemann & Patrick Ross (2009) Limits on the Space Launch Market Related to Stratospheric Ozone Depletion, Astropolitics, 7:1, 50-82, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14777620902768867

 

[TeslaFan]

"Radicals react with ozone on very short time scales, minutes to hours, so that direct injection into the stratosphere over a limited area (a rocket plume, for example) will cause a prompt, localized, ozone “hole.”"
Martin Ross, Darin Toohey, Manfred Peinemann & Patrick Ross (2009) Limits on the Space Launch Market Related to Stratospheric Ozone Depletion, Astropolitics, 7:1, 50-82, https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14777620902768867

I hope you are not presenting this as a counter-argument.
If a temporary localized disruption to a piece of ozone from a passing rocket is as a source of your health concern, all I was hoping you get from my previous post was this: this is not something to worry about as ozone is recreated constantly.
Have a nice day!

 

[TheSir]

Why do you think that the death would be homogenous across the world

Because your premise is that satellites are irradiating every inch of the planet. This problem is occuring right here, right now, and not elsewhere. With the given premise it's irrelevant how many other birds have died in other places and times -- they're not dying now, in spite of supposedly being similarly irradiated 247.

Questions:

Why haven't most cities of the world ever seen die offs of birds in spite of being EMF hotspots?

Why does an alleged radiation sickness spread gradually, logically and geographically like a viral outbreak, in spite of the 'electromagnetic soup' assumedly being in a ceaseless state of dramatic morphological change due to the constant movement of the countless of satellites orbiting the Earth? This alone should fully invalidate your hypothesis.

Lastly, do you believe that birds are immune to viral epidemics? If no, how do you differentiate between flu epidemic and radiation sickness? If yes, further exchange will be pointless due to too large differences in worldview.

 

[tokimaturi]

Here's a more active thread on the topic: Now it's bird flu

 

[Nick]

I hope you are not presenting this as a counter-argument.
If a temporary localized disruption to a piece of ozone from a passing rocket is as a source of your health concern, all I was hoping you get from my previous post was this: this is not something to worry about as ozone is recreated constantly.
Have a nice day!

If you read the entirety of the linked paper, it's absolutely something to worry about. Total ozone depletion has been observed in the wake of rocket exhaust, presumably causing a temporary increase in cosmic rays reaching the surface of earth, and there is a cumulative depletion effect both locally and globally where frequent launches can easily outpace the rate of new ozone formation.

Because your premise is that satellites are irradiating every inch of the planet. This problem is occuring right here, right now, and not elsewhere. With the given premise it's irrelevant how many other birds have died in other places and times -- they're not dying now, in spite of supposedly being similarly irradiated 247.

Questions:

Why haven't most cities of the world ever seen die offs of birds in spite of being EMF hotspots?

Why does an alleged radiation sickness spread gradually, logically and geographically like a viral outbreak, in spite of the 'electromagnetic soup' assumedly being in a ceaseless state of dramatic morphological change due to the constant movement of the countless of satellites orbiting the Earth? This alone should fully invalidate your hypothesis.

Lastly, do you believe that birds are immune to viral epidemics? If no, how do you differentiate between flu epidemic and radiation sickness? If yes, further exchange will be pointless due to too large differences in worldview.

The premise I am actually suggesting is the birds have been on a continuing basis dying as a result of the totality of the wireless communications infrastructure and other radio frequency emissions sources like radar. The death has been sporadic and heterogeneous in time and space. Massive deployment of communications satellites beginning in late 2019 and early 2020 is simply the newest iteration in the growth of this ever changing infrastructure that continues to outpace the adaptive capacity of many animals, sometimes causing death, other times simply causing a failure of populations to reproduce. At the same time there is geographic variation in the expansion of the terrestrial cell tower infrastructure, aviation, weather and military radar and radio signals, as well as the natural geomagnetic disturbances, all of which can have an additive effect to that of the changing satellite RF emissions, which may also have unique effects on life due to their unique placement within the global electric circuit.

Because mainstream science is in denial of the health effects of electromagnetic fields, they will always attribute these deaths to something else and viral disease seems to be their go-to, otherwise maybe they will say global warming.

Many cities around the world where bird populations have measure seen major bird population decline, as well as the full disappearance of many species of bird. This is usually attributed to global warming.

Mainly I just posted in this thread because I thought people who are interested in understanding the possible causes of mass bird die off other than the mainstream explanation would find the following two newsletters from Arthur Firstenburg interesting. That doesn't mean I believe what I am describing has to be the reason for every time a group of birds dies, just that it is always a strong possible candidate for consideration as an explanation, and that a general sense that the cell phone infrastructure seems to be light in a particular area does not by any means rule out other sources of electromagnetic radiation being related to the cause of the bird death.

Birds on Texel Island - Cellular Phone Task Force

Texel Island, early June, 2022 “The sky is falling! The sky is falling!” cried Chicken Little. And the sky fell, and no one listened, and all was still. A scholarly literature search for “electromagnetic” + “biological effects” produces the astonishing number of 76,400 studies, more studies than...

cellphonetaskforce.org

Sea Birds' Last Refuges - Cellular Phone Task Force

Low-radiation reserve on Texel Island, early June 2023 SEA BIRDS’ LAST REFUGES All over the Earth, birds -- symbols of freedom and joy -- have been disappearing, and unless we stop killing them, they will never more enliven our skies and imaginations. They are terns, seagulls, avocets, gannets...

cellphonetaskforce.org

 

[Peatress]

They're killing infected silver foxes and minks at fur farms now due to infections. It does seem strange. I mean, influenca A virus is a RNA virus that can effect humans and has had vaccines developed for it. Has Gates adapted his inhalers for bird flu or something?

How do they know the animals are infected? PCR tests?

 

[TeslaFan]

If you read the entirety of the linked paper, it's absolutely something to worry about. Total ozone depletion has been observed in the wake of rocket exhaust, presumably causing a temporary increase in cosmic rays reaching the surface of earth, and there is a cumulative depletion effect both locally and globally where frequent launches can easily outpace the rate of new ozone formation.

What you linked is an opinion article, and not scientific research. Even authors use quotations with the word "hole" since there is no such thing as a literal ozone hole. There can be no permanent "depletion" of it either because it's an ongoing chemical reaction and not a "resource" that can run out.
If this is "absolutely something to worry about" then don't let me stop you . I feel like I am intruding.