Waking At 3 Each Morning

[DuggaDugga]

I agree that cortisol isn't a hormone that warrants a beneficial label but it seems to me though that it is still a hormone that has a significant influence especially during the late stages of normal sleeping hours. It is serving a needed purpose. Its strong influence during that stage of sleep is not to be considered as harmful, but it is how the other hormones such as progesterone, estrogen, and serotonin, and melatonin work together in making sleep restful while allowing the body to replenish its glycogen stores and to repair itself. And this has to take account that the body while at sleep is at a state of inhibition, with lowered metabolism, yet still isn't in a state of torpor, allowing it to use glucose and/or fat for energy. I feel that cortisol is very much needed during sleep because it serves to use protein and fats to augment the supply of glucose going into sleep. The glucose from food, and from gluconeogenesis from protein (and fats?) thru the action of cortisol - all added up, is the glucose used up efficiently by oxidative metabolism - to carry out regenerative processes, enzymatic activity, bolstering of immunity, detoxification, and replenishing of glycogen stores, and more - is what makes for a healthy and restful sleep. There is also the energy from fatty oxidation, thru cortisol, as energy is energy.

I don't agree that cortisol is a necessary component of sleep. Cortisol has strong implicates in insomnia as it's an excitatory horomone, which is implicated in anxiety and other mental disorders. You state mention "healthy and restful sleep", which is antagonized greatly by excitatory hormones like adrenaline and cortisol.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128619
Chronic insomnia is associated with nyctohemeral activation of the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis: clinical implications. - PubMed - NCBI

You said "thru the action of cortisol - all added up, is the glucose used up efficiently by oxidative metabolism - to carry out regenerative processes, enzymatic activity, bolstering of immunity, detoxification, and replenishing of glycogen stores, and more". The stress response directly antagonizes healing. I thought it was interesting you said "bolstering of immunity", when glucocorticoids are known to be immunosuppressive.
The Impact of Psychological Stress on Wound Healing: Methods and Mechanisms
Immunosuppression by glucocorticoids: inhibition of production of multiple lymphokines by in vivo administration of dexamethasone. - PubMed - NCBI

You provide the reasoning that cortisol helps with glucose being used efficiently (?). I already provided references on glucocortioids influencing wasteful energy production. Cortisol may increase energy production and even the genesis of mitochondria, but that doesn't mean it's being used efficiently. In fact, it leads to exact opposite as I previously provided evidence on.

If you could please provide references in future responses it would be helpful. I'm curious where you're getting your information.
Thank you!

 

[ilpmusic]

I wake up now and feel an adrenaline reaction. I drink some OJ and collagen, maybe take a tiny bit of T3, and all is fine for awhile.

I think my cortisol is too low at night, and adrenaline kicks in to maintain blood sugar.

Any ideas are appreciated. One thing that I think has caused this is I eat the ground mushrooms before bedtime. Maybe I should do that in the afternoon.

I discovered that when I drink collagen at night I don't sleep as well. But when I take gelatin with warm milk, honey and nutmeg or gelatin heated up with Cherry juice or gelatin with chamomile tea, I sleep soundly for several hours. I always eat something as well:Cheese and fruit, or toasted sourdough bread with butter and a little bit of honey or homemade oatmeal cookies made with oat flour. Oatmeal is very sedating. I have had medically diagnosed insomnia since 2004. I started gelatin May 6, 2017 plus incorporated some of Ray Peat's diet guidelines. In 2 weeks I see my doctor to get officially medically cleared from severe insomnia.

 

[Travis]

I always like to look at the mRNA that is produced in response to a hormone; this lets us know which proteins are up-regulated. Here is what happens in the brain in response to cortisol:

The first two upregulated genes look like they would have quite a few downstream processes themselves. The third one is interesting: sphingomyelin phosphodiesterase. This breaks-down the phospholipids in the brain. The name is somewhat of a misnomer, as it cleaves only one phosphoester bond—not two of them. The result is lipid and phosphocholine, which can later become acetylcholine. It would seem as though cortisol is charging the tissues with acetycholine precursor, as a way to increase muscle tension and speed (as well as increasing brain thought-speed). It also upregualtes the exitatory glutamate receptor and the hunger-supressing neuropeptide Y.

It greatly downregulates β-tubulin. Microtubules cannot polymerize without this. You might expect cortisol then to interfere with learning, yet increase thought velocity via acetylcholine production.

There are other tissues to look at as well. It would be interesting to look at muscle and adipose tissue and see how they differ. Many tissues respond in different ways to steroids.

Cortisol can act on the mineralcorticoid receptor in addition to the glucocorticoid receptor. It has about equal affinity for both receptors. The reason why it doesn't usually cause a massive increase in blood pressure through absorbing sodium is that the kidneys have very high activity of a degrading enzyme. But high levels of cortisol can still increase blood pressure in certain people by acting like aldosterone in the kidneys.

Cortisol seems like it can help people get things done. Stress and tension can be seen as good things of you have a deadline.

Cortisol also seems to to be the main cause of male pattern baldness by acting on the mineralcorticoid receptor. The sex differential can be explained by the fact that males have a different corticosteroid profile and chronically-higher levels of cortisol. Castration at an early ages actually preserves the female phenotype of corticosteroid expression.

Cortisol powerfully disrupts the hair follicle cycle in vitro, and DHT actually stimulates hair growth in areas such as the beard.

Mice genetically-engineered to have higher expression of mineralcorticoid receptors on their skin (spliced next to a keratin gene) are totally hairless.


Salaria, S., et al. "Microarray analysis of cultured human brain aggregates following cortisol exposure: implications for cellular functions relevant to mood disorders." Neurobiology of disease 23.3 (2006): 630-636.

 

[James IV]

I really don't want to start another debate. However, saying someone is pro or anti cortisol, is ignoring the minutia. The reason cortisol is elevated (and causes all the problems mentioned) in folks with metabolic syndrome, is not that same reason it is elevated during low carb/ketosis/fasting. In fact, all of those things are consistently used to reverse metabolic syndrome.

The cortisol profile actually improves in the latter. high cortisol production is not the same as low cortisol clearance, even if they do produce similar blood cortisol concentrations. One is due to high need for cortisol, the other is due to low use.

 

[ecstatichamster]

So for the last few days I am doing what I used to do and what @James IV suggested (thanks!)

I am simply not eating after dinner, and then I have my mushrooms and go to sleep.

I am omitting any kind of food or beverage before bedtime. And now I am sleeping through the night and waking up feeling good and not jumpy or anxious.

I suppose now cortisol is higher and so adrenalin is not raised.

Weirdly enough I have lost a few pounds. Not sure if this is why, or whatever, just noting it.

 

[charlie]

I am omitting any kind of food or beverage before bedtime. And now I am sleeping through the night and waking up feeling good and not jumpy or anxious.

Fantastic!

@James IV right again!

 

[EIRE24]

Fantastic!

@James IV right again!

Well done James,

Brilliant that you helped someone through experiences from yourself and people in the past.

 

[raypeatclips]

So for the last few days I am doing what I used to do and what @James IV suggested (thanks!)

I am simply not eating after dinner, and then I have my mushrooms and go to sleep.

I am omitting any kind of food or beverage before bedtime. And now I am sleeping through the night and waking up feeling good and not jumpy or anxious.

I suppose now cortisol is higher and so adrenalin is not raised.

Weirdly enough I have lost a few pounds. Not sure if this is why, or whatever, just noting it.

What time do you eat dinner? Are you not hungry before bed ?

 

[ecstatichamster]

What time do you eat dinner? Are you not hungry before bed ?

around 730PM and no, I'm not.

 

[Braveheart]

Well done James,

Brilliant that you helped someone through experiences from yourself and people in the past.

he's on my watch list....

 

[EIRE24]

he's on my watch list....

For what?

 

[Braveheart]

For what?

sorry.....people I follow

 

[James IV]

So for the last few days I am doing what I used to do and what @James IV suggested (thanks!)

I am simply not eating after dinner, and then I have my mushrooms and go to sleep.

I am omitting any kind of food or beverage before bedtime. And now I am sleeping through the night and waking up feeling good and not jumpy or anxious.

I suppose now cortisol is higher and so adrenalin is not raised.

Weirdly enough I have lost a few pounds. Not sure if this is why, or whatever, just noting it.

Very glad to hear you're sleeping well. That's such a great feeling. I deserve no credit, you already knew the answer intuitively. I just helped give you the bump you needed to listen to your body.

 

[yerrag]

This is good learning. Thank James IV for the ideas and hamster for validating these ideas. It helped me understand more the interplay of macronutrients and hormones influencing the quality of sleep, and to a larger extent the ability of the body to use the nocturnal cycle to keep us in good health. I also appreciate seeing the graph supplied by opiath, of the fluctuation of cortisol at night, as it allowed me to visualize the action for cortisol in our body as it relates to our daily rhythm.

It's made me appreciate that cortisol has its good uses, as in reading through Peat, I've often erred on focusing merely on the side of cortisol that is stressful that leads to a chronic pathology. It takes a while to appreciate Peat fully, as with Peat one needs to understand the fullness of an organism, and in that wholeness one has to appreciate balance. In balance, there is the understanding of the yin and the yang.

Now, I see the huge part cortisol plays in our sleep, where we recharge, regenerate, repair, restore, rebuild, recover, grow, and do other things we take for granted.

Cortisol is a vital cog in this system called our body. When we understand how to take care of our body, hormones such as cortisol are never going to be allowed more room than necessary to exert their influence on our body.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

Has anyone mentioned magnesium's role in insomnia? Magnesium deficiency is linked to poor hepatic glycogen homeostasis.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Has anyone mentioned magnesium's role in insomnia? Magnesium deficiency is linked to poor hepatic glycogen homeostasis.

That could be. For what it's worth I take 500mg or so of magnesium glycinate daily. I drink fresh OJ, and drink a lot of fresh coffee.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

You might be od'ing on magnesium. I'm not sure how well coffee's magnesium is absorbed. OJ is loaded in magnesium. Have you tried taking a week off of the Mg Glycinate just to see how your body responds? Mark Sircus is big on transdermal Mg. Or even Mg salt baths.

 

[ecstatichamster]

no, if I OD on magnesium I get loose stool. I am not ODing on magnesium. I think it's just fine. OJ isn't really that loaded with it, BTW. I might get 50mg a day in a pint of OJ. Not that much.

 

[Colin Nordstrom]

what is your exercise routine?

 

[vulture]

Bro, I'm having the exact situation as you: usually between 2:30 and 3:30 AM I wake up and sometimes it's easier to go back to sleep, sometimes it happens about an hour later. I'm noticing a pattern that you may take a look at: if fall asleep "early", 9 PM, I tend to wake up at 3 AM and it's harder to go back to sleep, if I fall asleep about 10 PM, it tends to be easier to go back to sleep, today I thought it was 3 AM when I woke up the second time, because the first time was pretty brief and within a minute or two I was sleeping again, but it was 6 AM