Vitamin E Causes Fatigue

[burtlancast]

That is actually an absolutely massive amount of vitamin E, which makes the whole study quite questionable. Sounds like one of those studies designed on purpose to make a nutrient look bad.
Anyways, 150mg twice a week means 300mg weekly per mouse. A 4-week old mouse (as used in the study) weighs about 20g (often less but lets assume 20g for easy calculations). That means each mouse received 300mg * 50 = 15,000 mg/kg weekly, or in other words 2100 mg/kg daily. Let me repeat - each mouse received about 2g/kg b.w. vitamin E daily! Converting into human equivalent dose (HED) using accepted conversion formulas gives a HED of about 150mg/kg daily for a human. In other words a daily human dose of 10g-15g!!! I have no idea what exactly these scientists are smoking or what they think this study demonstrates but to me it actually demonstrates the remarkable safety of vitamin E because even in such insane daily doses it only led to a slight fattening of the liver.

And yet people here, of all places, are still falling for these predictable medical warfare tactics.

I've been supplementing with Vit E for the last 15 years after reading the books published by the Shute brothers, and it always improved greatly my well being.

Perhaps those doubting Vit E should do likewise before posting negative opinions.

Internet Archive Search: creator:(wilfrid SHUTE)

 

[BearWithMe]

And yet people here, of all places, are still falling for these predictable medical warfare tactics.

I've been supplementing with Vit E for the last 15 years after reading the books published by the Shute brothers, and it always improved greatly my well being.

Perhaps those doubting Vit E should do likewise before posting negative opinions.

Internet Archive Search: creator:(wilfrid SHUTE)

Wow, that's quite a testament! What form of vitamin E and what dose are you using?

 

[burtlancast]

Wow, that's quite a testament! What form of vitamin E and what dose are you using?

I started with 800 UI/day in a E complex: it was too much at first as it raised my blood pressure, so i came down to 400 UI every other day.

The goal has always been to reach 800 UI/day, as this dose protects against infarcts and strokes. The key is to increase the dose gradually so your blood pressure doesn't rise too much at first.

 

[lampofred]

I started with 800 UI/day in a E complex: it was too much at first as it raised my blood pressure, so i came down to 400 UI every other day.

The goal has always been to reach 800 UI/day, as this dose protects against infarcts and strokes. The key is to increase the dose gradually so your blood pressure doesn't rise too much at first.

Wouldn't the blood pressure increase caused by E be a good thing? I think it's increasing blood pressure in a good way by giving your tissues the circulation they need, not in a bad way as a compensatory mechanism for increased vascular resistance. Just like salt.

Also thanks for the info about optimal dosage for health benefits.

 

[BearWithMe]

I started with 800 UI/day in a E complex: it was too much at first as it raised my blood pressure, so i came down to 400 UI every other day.

The goal has always been to reach 800 UI/day, as this dose protects against infarcts and strokes. The key is to increase the dose gradually so your blood pressure doesn't rise too much at first.

Thank you!

 

[Dino D]

So glad you started this thread man.


So the fatigue from Vit E supps I think are due to the following:
-Lowering sodium.
-Lowering of cortisol.
-Progesterone like effect (GABAergic), antagonizing cortisol.
-Crashing estrogen.
-LOWERING iron....


I personally only use 200IU Vit E orally now only like once a week or 2. Any more than that and I can easily run into LOW estrogen symptoms... such as a numbed di**

Having said that, at the time when my Testosterone was the highest it's ever been recorded, I was indeed using quite a lot Vit E.

I Made My Testosterone Off The Scale High - Men's Health

this could be my case
also zinc
ashwanghanda

maybe mag and vit d...do the same

so low estrogen? how to fix that?

 

[Frankdee20]

Vitamin E does not feel good to me at all... It gives me very non androgenic feeling ... K2 is the opposite... I think E messes up my erections pretty badly.... Either from lowering NO, or just Progesterone like effects...

 

[Frankdee20]

Too much aspirin gives me same effect on my Willy

 

[MetabolicTrash]

I don't know if there's much to worry about with erection or occasional sexual "hiccups" or pauses. I think it's overstated how sexual function is so purely aligned with overall health. It's true that sexual function can be a coincidence of optimal hormones and so forth that can actually keep sense of self and general health good, but some might miss the mark by associating some mild, negative effects on libido as a sign that health or such is in peril. Just because good health often warrants a decent sex drive doesn't mean you need a (constant) decent sex drive in order to have good health.

It is true that some of these effects dampen sexual response, but I do not see that as bad -- probably more so good. I think it's been expressed that reverting away some functions associated with development and adulthood actually relieves oneself possibly of said mechanisms that instigate said functions. For example, isn't estrogen one of the prime functions heightened in puberty (pimples, moodiness/emotionality, bloating)? Estrogen is also the same hormone often correlated with cancer, weak hearts, balding, etc. Not calling estrogen "bad" in and of itself, but the point shouldn't be too difficult to get that a mild decrease in sex drive isn't necessarily a bad thing if the very thing invoking it is doing a whole lot more that's good.

Ray has said that small kids in their prime (maybe not too many kids these days as opposed time ago) often are resilient, regenerative, adaptive, energetic, and withstanding basically -- and yet small kids usually have no sex drive/function if we're talking under the age 11 here. From this alone it doesn't seem too "off" in my view to assume that sex drive/preferences/etc. isn't an indicator of health exactly. I've felt absolutely horrible at times with no decrease in sexual response/function -- and other times I've felt fantastic without sex or etc. even being a factor/thought along the way.

But yeah if it comes down to a specific circumstance I can see it being a problem, but just saying that the correlations/conclusions drawn from this are not always correct. If the idea of bursting energy, health, resilience, wonder/happiness is seen associated with asexual young people I don't think it's much a case that one having a need for "perfect" sexual response at all times (if such) is somewhat significantly correlated with health or optimal function overall. Also if you have legitimate dysfunction in that "area" overall then I'd say it's a fair case of it being problematic on a larger scale -- but that's different from fluctuations and downtime as a possible response to substances.

Vitamin E might cause fatigue because it actually "tries" to relax/sooth you in a sense, suggesting some flaw in this method maybe. Some people feel relaxing as "fatigue" maybe because they never really truly do relax/"deep rest" or etc. How would someone on cocaine feel if you strapped them down/restrained them with a benzodiazepine/etc.? Possibly the same. Sometimes maybe "fatigued" and "relaxed" is a fine line depending on how the person adjusts or perceives the "state" they're in. Ray has mentioned similar terms like "excitatory" and "inhibitory" -- but can't say how well/how to make them "crossover" and such ideally. I know I've been "hopped up" before and couldn't allow myself to rest/sit -- it felt "wrong" even though I was pushing myself way too hard at times for sure and could've benefited greatly from it.

How I see it is if I feel a bit too "fatigued" from taking something like aspirin or etc. but everything else otherwise is fine/I'm not being gravely affected it by it in any known way I just maybe mentally see it as a "take it in strides" sort of approach where I adjust with it and take it as temporary downtime. Since I maybe neglected "relaxation" so much it's like one could maybe get "stuck" too long hyper vs. calm when both sides need to play their roles at times usually. Relaxed with some energy/enthusiasm/drive and just generally feeling good is probably one of the best/most optimal ways one can feel -- but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy a deeper relaxation which does at times probably seem like being dragged down for some at least.

 

[Frankdee20]

I don't know if there's much to worry about with erection or occasional sexual "hiccups" or pauses. I think it's overstated how sexual function is so purely aligned with overall health. It's true that sexual function can be a coincidence of optimal hormones and so forth that can actually keep sense of self and general health good, but some might miss the mark by associating some mild, negative effects on libido as a sign that health or such is in peril. Just because good health often warrants a decent sex drive doesn't mean you need a (constant) decent sex drive in order to have good health.

It is true that some of these effects dampen sexual response, but I do not see that as bad -- probably more so good. I think it's been expressed that reverting away some functions associated with development and adulthood actually relieves oneself possibly of said mechanisms that instigate said functions. For example, isn't estrogen one of the prime functions heightened in puberty (pimples, moodiness/emotionality, bloating)? Estrogen is also the same hormone often correlated with cancer, weak hearts, balding, etc. Not calling estrogen "bad" in and of itself, but the point shouldn't be too difficult to get that a mild decrease in sex drive isn't necessarily a bad thing if the very thing invoking it is doing a whole lot more that's good.

Ray has said that small kids in their prime (maybe not too many kids these days as opposed time ago) often are resilient, regenerative, adaptive, energetic, and withstanding basically -- and yet small kids usually have no sex drive/function if we're talking under the age 11 here. From this alone it doesn't seem too "off" in my view to assume that sex drive/preferences/etc. isn't an indicator of health exactly. I've felt absolutely horrible at times with no decrease in sexual response/function -- and other times I've felt fantastic without sex or etc. even being a factor/thought along the way.

But yeah if it comes down to a specific circumstance I can see it being a problem, but just saying that the correlations/conclusions drawn from this are not always correct. If the idea of bursting energy, health, resilience, wonder/happiness is seen associated with asexual young people I don't think it's much a case that one having a need for "perfect" sexual response at all times (if such) is somewhat significantly correlated with health or optimal function overall. Also if you have legitimate dysfunction in that "area" overall then I'd say it's a fair case of it being problematic on a larger scale -- but that's different from fluctuations and downtime as a possible response to substances.

Very nice words

 

[Daniil]

Another villain - Tocotrienol?

I have been puzzled for a long time about the bad reaction of some people to coconut oil. Some people don't have a problem with refined coconut oil. The …

ggenereux.blog

I have a theory that tocotrienols are highly toxic. These are forms of vitamin E and are unsaturated, so they can be oxidized to aldehydes. Ray Peet previously spoke negatively about them and said that they are in products with mixed tocopherols, but are not listed on the label. Also in some additives with synthetic alpha-tocopherol added dye "Annatto", which contains an insane amount of tocotrienols. I think everyone should avoid this as well as PUFA.

 

[Dave Clark]

Another villain - Tocotrienol?

I have been puzzled for a long time about the bad reaction of some people to coconut oil. Some people don't have a problem with refined coconut oil. The …

ggenereux.blog

I have a theory that tocotrienols are highly toxic. These are forms of vitamin E and are unsaturated, so they can be oxidized to aldehydes. Ray Peet previously spoke negatively about them and said that they are in products with mixed tocopherols, but are not listed on the label. Also in some additives with synthetic alpha-tocopherol added dye "Annatto", which contains an insane amount of tocotrienols. I think everyone should avoid this as well as PUFA.

Vitamin A is unsaturated as well, but where are the studies showing problems with tocotrienols? I saw studies showing that tocotrienols prevented lipid peroxidation. better than vitamin E. So far, studies are looking quite positive for tocotrienols, and Peat can't come up with any significant study to show otherwise, to my knowledge. His assertion about liver problems pertained to toxicology studies. I keep an open mind, but any negative talk about tocotrienols seems to never get backed up with any research. Tocotrienols, the Vitamin E of the 21st Century: It’s Potential Against Cancer and Other Chronic Diseases

 

[Daniil]

Vitamin A is unsaturated as well, but where are the studies showing problems with tocotrienols? I saw studies showing that tocotrienols prevented lipid peroxidation. better than vitamin E. So far, studies are looking quite positive for tocotrienols, and Peat can't come up with any significant study to show otherwise, to my knowledge. His assertion about liver problems pertained to toxicology studies. I keep an open mind, but any negative talk about tocotrienols seems to never get backed up with any research. Tocotrienols, the Vitamin E of the 21st Century: It’s Potential Against Cancer and Other Chronic Diseases

Because there are no well-designed long-term studies of tocotrienols. Almost all of them are dedicated to the fight against cancer. Usually, if something is used to fight cancer, it is toxic. Like chemotherapy. And then there are some research curves like "tocotrienols lowered LDL levels." Although omega 6s also lower LDL levels. And there is no research at all about the harm of tocotrienols. And about the benefits too, actually. This should already be alarming.

The fact that they reduced lipid peroxidation is also another indirect marker that says nothing. Omega 3s are also lowering, lol. This is a favorite piece of Big Pharma, take some kind of indirect marker and build everything around it. And thus promote harmful things as good.

The teratogenic effects of aldehydes can easilly cancel out all the benefits of reducing peroxidation.

 

[Dave Clark]

Because there are no well-designed long-term studies of tocotrienols. Almost all of them are dedicated to the fight against cancer. Usually, if something is used to fight cancer, it is toxic. Like chemotherapy. And then there are some research curves like "tocotrienols lowered LDL levels." Although omega 6s also lower LDL levels. And there is no research at all about the harm of tocotrienols. And about the benefits too, actually. This should already be alarming.

The fact that they reduced lipid peroxidation is also another indirect marker that says nothing. Omega 3s are also lowering, lol. This is a favorite piece of Big Pharma, take some kind of indirect marker and build everything around it. And thus promote harmful things as good.

The teratogenic effects of aldehydes can easilly cancel out all the benefits of reducing peroxidation.

Well, if there isn't enough long term studies to show harm, in fact, no studies, then that isn't proven either. You make good correlations, but that is all they are. Until good studies are done 'positive or negative', it is just conjecture. When I see proper negative studies on tocotrienols, like I do with omega-3 oils, then I may be more convinced, but until then, I am on the fence with this nutrient. Not saying I am cheer leading for team tocotrienol, but I need more than you are providing.

 

[LA]

Hi!
So I’ve noticed several times when I used vitamin E specifically that I get this severe fatigue.

Everyone is different. I *must* have vitamin E 400 IU d-alpha-tocopherol daily to feel healthy and breathe easily. Occasionally I take one in the morning, shortly after drinking coffee and with my first cup of milk. I sometimes do one in the evening with milk if I dont feel like taking aspirin. Every time I use any brand with mixed tocopherols I feel very sick and exhausted. I have been doing Vit E alpha tocopherol for at least 20 years. My teacher said it would help protect me from the smog and it seems to be very good for my skin too as I have an autoimmune disease that makes my skin very tight (chemical exposure). I take whatever brand of Vit E 400 d-alpha tocopherol is available.

I had my worst experience with A.C.Grace Unique E, which seemed okay at first and then by the 3rd bottle I felt VERY tired and I threw it away

Drs.Wilfrid and Evan Shute did great research on Vit E. If you havent read about them these simple articles are quick reads:

Vitamin E: The Real Story

Vitamin E

Best wishes.

 

[Daniil]

Well, if there isn't enough long term studies to show harm, in fact, no studies, then that isn't proven either. You make good correlations, but that is all they are. Until good studies are done 'positive or negative', it is just conjecture. When I see proper negative studies on tocotrienols, like I do with omega-3 oils, then I may be more convinced, but until then, I am on the fence with this nutrient. Not saying I am cheer leading for team tocotrienol, but I need more than you are providing.

Effects of palm oil tocotrienol-rich fraction on biochemical and morphological alterations of liver in fenitrothion-treated rats - PubMed

Indiscriminate application of organophosphate (OP) pesticides has led to environmental pollution and severe health problems. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of palm oil tocotrienol-rich fraction (TRF) on biochemical and morphological changes of the liver in rats treated...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Indiscriminate application of organophosphate (OP) pesticides has led to environmental pollution and severe health problems. The aim of the present study was to evaluate the effect of palm oil tocotrienol-rich fraction (TRF) on biochemical and morphological changes of the liver in rats treated with fenitrothion (FNT), a type of OP pesticide. A total of 28 male Sprague-Dawley rats were divided into four groups; control group, TRF-supplemented group, FNT-treated group and TRF+FNT group. TRF (200 mg/kg) was supplemented 30 minutes prior to FNT (20 mg/kg) administration, both orally for 28 consecutive days. Following 28 days of treatment, plasma biochemical changes and liver morphology were evaluated. The body and absolute liver weights were significantly elevated in TRF+FNT group compared to FNT group. TRF administration significantly decreased the total protein level and restored the activity of alanine aminotransferase (ALT) and aspartate aminotransferase (AST) in TRF + FNT group."

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

So what I am trying to do is find other sources of zinc in supplement form that are either natural powder forms or natural zinc forms, and maximum 10mg per serve.

Any ideas how we can replete zinc without Oysters and Beef? I dont think these are enough and accessible enough.

let's try and find some natural Zinc Supps?

You are spot on about Vitamin E dose.

Polyrachis? Joined this thread as I have same total exhaustion from E