Vitamin E Causes Fatigue

[Kingpinguin]

I am also interested to know how you respond to ZINC supplements? Does this also make you feel like ***t?

yes zinc is poison to me. Severe joint ache, migraine and similair fatigue as vit E.
Yes I believe now vit E dose is the key. Negative effects seems to occur in doses above 150 IU daily. Thats the same for the vit E does damage study. They found doses lower than 150 IU lowered all cause mortality while higher did not do anything or increased it.

 

[Lokzo]

So what I am trying to do is find other sources of zinc in supplement form that are either natural powder forms or natural zinc forms, and maximum 10mg per serve.

Any ideas how we can replete zinc without Oysters and Beef? I dont think these are enough and accessible enough.

let's try and find some natural Zinc Supps?

You are spot on about Vitamin E dose.

 

[Kingpinguin]

So what I am trying to do is find other sources of zinc in supplement form that are either natural powder forms or natural zinc forms, and maximum 10mg per serve.

Any ideas how we can replete zinc without Oysters and Beef? I dont think these are enough and accessible enough.

let's try and find some natural Zinc Supps?

You are spot on about Vitamin E dose.

I honestly think natural foods are enough. Same with vitamin E. Think the problem is in peating. You don’t need vitamin E if you are avoiding PUFA and eat plenty of SFA. I think if you have consumed PUFA or eat more like an american diet you can benefit from vitamin E. But Ray does not take vitamin E and says there is no need for it if you avoid PUFA. He is a wise man so he knows whats up. Im gonna trust him on that and lay of the vitamin E.
Zinc I honestly also think its an overrated mineral. So many people have problems or caused problems using high doses. I did that aswell and it made me copper deficient. Copper supplement for 2 months returned me to normal. And since then I have eaten beef almost everyday without issues. Oysters if I eat 3-4 of them can make me feel a bit lethargic. I have no symptoms if zinc deficiency. So I’ll take that as if I dont need it.
Theres not many vitamins and minerals you actually need if your healthy. Vitamin D is on my winter list of supplements other than that I think I’m gonna skip on vitamins and minerals.

 

[Dave Clark]

So what I am trying to do is find other sources of zinc in supplement form that are either natural powder forms or natural zinc forms, and maximum 10mg per serve.

Any ideas how we can replete zinc without Oysters and Beef? I dont think these are enough and accessible enough.

let's try and find some natural Zinc Supps?

You are spot on about Vitamin E dose.

Here is a food source zinc supplement: Zinc Gold

 

[Eberhardt]

Hi.e
I haven't posted much but I wanted to chime in on this. I get the same reaction to Vitamin E basically from all sources, including tocovit. I have a stable pulse at 70bpm I am consistently 37C, and I eat a lot of sugar, gelating and almost no PUFA except from whats in the animals fats I'm eating. Peating for alomst 10 years now. Yes I do have som symptoms of systemic inflamation but I as well do not get this reaction from other stuff neither Pregnenelone, Progesterone, Aspirin, Vitmian B's, MB, anti-histamines, Koffein,or any other stuff I 've done. My prolactin and cortisol is decent on tests, as well as my thyroid results. BUT if I take any dose exceeding about 40mg alpha-TE I get the same problem. I get exhausted, out of breath and unfocused. takes some days to recover. AND yes I tolerate Zink excellently, though not finding myself needing it lately. No difference in my reaction to E. Not saying this means E is bad, but it's not quality problems and not sugar problems.

 

[Lokzo]

Here is a food source zinc supplement: Zinc Gold

I might just well trial this one out. Thanks !

 

[Lokzo]

I honestly think natural foods are enough. Same with vitamin E. Think the problem is in peating. You don’t need vitamin E if you are avoiding PUFA and eat plenty of SFA. I think if you have consumed PUFA or eat more like an american diet you can benefit from vitamin E. But Ray does not take vitamin E and says there is no need for it if you avoid PUFA. He is a wise man so he knows whats up. Im gonna trust him on that and lay of the vitamin E.
Zinc I honestly also think its an overrated mineral. So many people have problems or caused problems using high doses. I did that aswell and it made me copper deficient. Copper supplement for 2 months returned me to normal. And since then I have eaten beef almost everyday without issues. Oysters if I eat 3-4 of them can make me feel a bit lethargic. I have no symptoms if zinc deficiency. So I’ll take that as if I dont need it.
Theres not many vitamins and minerals you actually need if your healthy. Vitamin D is on my winter list of supplements other than that I think I’m gonna skip on vitamins and minerals.

Well shittttt, I decided to see if I could tolerate zinc again, so yesterday I had a grand total of 30mg Zinc chelate and the same this morning...

I thought I was going good and then this afternoon, the psychoactive properties, such as NMDA antagonism and all the other nasties kicked in. I am back in robot mode.

Now I am NUMBED up and feel disassociated, weak, fatigued, dizzy. I am literally going to pour all the zinc supps in my house.

 

[Kingpinguin]

Well shittttt, I decided to see if I could tolerate zinc again, so yesterday I had a grand total of 30mg Zinc chelate and the same this morning...

I thought I was going good and then this afternoon, the psychoactive properties, such as NMDA antagonism and all the other nasties kicked in. I am back in robot mode.

Now I am NUMBED up and feel disassociated, weak, fatigued, dizzy. I am literally going to pour all the zinc supps in my house.

hahaha

 

[nigma]

I've also been supplementing vitamin E recently, fairly high dose and have run into this. I came on the forum and read that vitamin e can lower sodium, then I realized my symptoms were similar to when I overdid potassium supplementing. So I had some salt drinks (I have a bottle of brine I make up which I can add to water and its all already dissolved, super quick to prep) and that solved it mostly for me. But I still wonder if the loss of sodium is an indication that I'm hypothyroid.

 

[nigma]

I should add that my vitamin e supplementing was mainly topical.

 

[Dave Clark]

Well shittttt, I decided to see if I could tolerate zinc again, so yesterday I had a grand total of 30mg Zinc chelate and the same this morning...

I thought I was going good and then this afternoon, the psychoactive properties, such as NMDA antagonism and all the other nasties kicked in. I am back in robot mode.

Now I am NUMBED up and feel disassociated, weak, fatigued, dizzy. I am literally going to pour all the zinc supps in my house.

Why so much zinc, maybe a lower dose of 10 mg or under wouldn't cause you problems, and still keep you in a sufficiency state?
I believe half the problems people have with zinc is the dose, more than 15 mg/day may be too much and could start imbalancing other minerals,etc.

 

[Whichway?]

Well shittttt, I decided to see if I could tolerate zinc again, so yesterday I had a grand total of 30mg Zinc chelate and the same this morning...

I thought I was going good and then this afternoon, the psychoactive properties, such as NMDA antagonism and all the other nasties kicked in. I am back in robot mode.

Now I am NUMBED up and feel disassociated, weak, fatigued, dizzy. I am literally going to pour all the zinc supps in my house.

I agree with what Dave said about maybe the dose being too high, PLUS just jumping in and taking 30mg straight off may be too much of a mineral that has key roles in many enzymes in the body. You are basically kicking those into high gear all of a sudden, so of course you feel different. You also need metallothionein transport proteins to carry the zinc around the body. I don’t know whether it could adjust so quickly to large intakes, though I could be wrong on that.

Sometimes if you build up slowly you avoid those sudden surges of changing symptoms in your metabolism, plus building up gradually you get a better instinctual feel for how a supplement is effecting you, either good or bad.

 

[Lokzo]

I agree with you both @Dave Clark and @Whichway? !!

I know it's way too high of a dose, but the good news is its impossible for me to make this same mistake again, because it's in the bin now.

I have low ceruloplasmin levels as well btw. Tried supplementing Vitamin A and eating liver, yet that still didn't help me.

 

[Luann]

I honestly think natural foods are enough. Same with vitamin E. Think the problem is in peating. You don’t need vitamin E if you are avoiding PUFA and eat plenty of SFA. I think if you have consumed PUFA or eat more like an american diet you can benefit from vitamin E. But Ray does not take vitamin E and says there is no need for it if you avoid PUFA. He is a wise man so he knows whats up. Im gonna trust him on that and lay of the vitamin E.
Zinc I honestly also think its an overrated mineral. So many people have problems or caused problems using high doses. I did that aswell and it made me copper deficient. Copper supplement for 2 months returned me to normal. And since then I have eaten beef almost everyday without issues. Oysters if I eat 3-4 of them can make me feel a bit lethargic. I have no symptoms if zinc deficiency. So I’ll take that as if I dont need it.
Theres not many vitamins and minerals you actually need if your healthy. Vitamin D is on my winter list of supplements other than that I think I’m gonna skip on vitamins and minerals.

Similarities! I dont take much E, maybe once weekly, bc of eating a pretty saturated-fat diet, and because E is said to interact with K2 :-/
can I ask about your experience re-upping on copper? I find copper to be so touchy. Taken with anything less than a full meal, it makes me nauseous, and it definitely gave me a UTI after a few days at 6mg each. that was probably too much too fast. how'd you do it?

 

[Kingpinguin]

Similarities! I dont take much E, maybe once weekly, bc of eating a pretty saturated-fat diet, and because E is said to interact with K2 :-/
can I ask about your experience re-upping on copper? I find copper to be so touchy. Taken with anything less than a full meal, it makes me nauseous, and it definitely gave me a UTI after a few days at 6mg each. that was probably too much too fast. how'd you do it?

take it in the evening after a meal and i dont get any nausea. Take only 2 miligrams daily.

 

[round]

Hi!

So I’ve noticed several times when I used vitamin E specifically that I get this severe fatigue. Specially in the morning when trying to get out of bed. I tend to end up sleeping 4 hours extra and wake up feeling totally crap. So I did a google search and found this.

Fatigue caused by vitamin E?

Its not really a study but a doctor noticing the same pattern.

I remember back when I bought some aromasin/exemestane and it gave me the same type of tiredness.
Could this be due to low aromatase or estrogen?
Both kills my libido aswell.
Feels like it has an anti dopamine effect.

Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice

• Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice
• Objectives
  The use of antioxidant therapy in the treatment of oxidative stress-related diseases such as cardiovascular disease, diabetes or obesity remains controversial. Our aim is to demonstrate that antioxidant supplementation may promote negative effects if used before the establishment of oxidative stress due to a reduced ROS generation under physiological levels, in a mice model of obesity.
  
  
• Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice

 

[Lokzo]

Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice

• Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice
• Objectives
  The use of antioxidant therapy in the treatment of oxidative stress-related diseases such as cardiovascular disease, diabetes or obesity remains controversial. Our aim is to demonstrate that antioxidant supplementation may promote negative effects if used before the establishment of oxidative stress due to a reduced ROS generation under physiological levels, in a mice model of obesity.
  
  
• Short-term vitamin E treatment impairs reactive oxygen species signaling required for adipose tissue expansion, resulting in fatty liver and insulin resistance in obese mice

LOW DOSE TOO!!!
"Received 150 mg of vitamin E (DL-α Tocopherol acetate; Sigma, Spain) twice a week by oral gavage".

 

[haidut]

LOW DOSE TOO!!!
"Received 150 mg of vitamin E (DL-α Tocopherol acetate; Sigma, Spain) twice a week by oral gavage".

That is actually an absolutely massive amount of vitamin E, which makes the whole study quite questionable. Sounds like one of those studies designed on purpose to make a nutrient look bad.
Anyways, 150mg twice a week means 300mg weekly per mouse. A 4-week old mouse (as used in the study) weighs about 20g (often less but lets assume 20g for easy calculations). That means each mouse received 300mg * 50 = 15,000 mg/kg weekly, or in other words 2100 mg/kg daily. Let me repeat - each mouse received about 2g/kg b.w. vitamin E daily! Converting into human equivalent dose (HED) using accepted conversion formulas gives a HED of about 150mg/kg daily for a human. In other words a daily human dose of 10g-15g!!! I have no idea what exactly these scientists are smoking or what they think this study demonstrates but to me it actually demonstrates the remarkable safety of vitamin E because even in such insane daily doses it only led to a slight fattening of the liver.

 

[Lokzo]

That is actually an absolutely massive amount of vitamin E, which makes the whole study quite questionable. Sounds like one of those studies designed on purpose to make a nutrient look bad.
Anyways, 150mg twice a week means 300mg weekly per mouse. A 4-week old mouse (as used in the study) weighs about 20g (often less but lets assume 20g for easy calculations). That means each mouse received 300mg * 50 = 15,000 mg/kg weekly, or in other words 2100 mg/kg daily. Let me repeat - each mouse received about 2g/kg b.w. vitamin E daily! Converting into human equivalent dose (HED) using accepted conversion formulas gives a HED of about 150mg/kg daily for a human. In other words a daily human dose of 10g-15g!!! I have no idea what exactly these scientists are smoking or what they think this study demonstrates but to me it actually demonstrates the remarkable safety of vitamin E because even in such insane daily doses it only led to a slight fattening of the liver.

Damnnnn!! Good pick up boss.

They are insanely high doses.

 

[Luann]

take it in the evening after a meal and i dont get any nausea. Take only 2 miligrams daily.

It is working now