Vitamin C

[nikotrope]

What about your calcium? I mentioned if you are a slow oxidizer with high calcium you will feel better on C. If not then that is probably why the intolerance though some say it's a sign of gut malabsorption which there could be some truth to it.

My calcium is a bit low, definitely not high. My HTMA makes me a fast oxidizer which would explain why I can't take vitamin C. Still I think vitamin C would fix some of my issues.

Some people don't take to l-ascorbic acid well because they have issues with their digestive system - stomach and gut. Cathcart says l-ascorbic acid intake is the preferred way, and if irritates the stomach/gut, those issues have to be resolved. L-ascorbic acid is more acidic that the buffered ascorbates, of which sodium ascorbate and calcium ascorbate (Ester-C) are the most common. Many people use these ascorbates in place of l-ascorbic acid, and they do well. But still, gut issues have to be looked at resolved.

From what I've gathered in going thru the Vitamin C foundation forum, Hickey (a professor) believes that ascorbic acid is absorbed thru the stomach, and what is left over that goes to the duodenum, is neutralized by bicarbonates coming from the pancreas. If there is some ascorbic acid left after the neutralization at the duodenum, it goes to the colon. The colon will react to the acidity by flushing it with water, and this is what we experience with the bowel flush. My personal conclusion, and it's just a guess, is that the body's need for vitamin C is expressed largely through the stomach lining's absorptive capacity for vitamin C, and what it can no longer absorb is left to be neutralized in a limited way in the duodenum, and the ascorbic acid that remains and goes to the colon is flushed. If the stomach is central to ascorbic acid absorption, then it requires the stomach to be healthy and fully functional, and a large of its functionality has to do with the ability to produce enough acid for digestion. In the case of ascorbic acid, the stomach has to have enough acidity, as it should, to render the ascorbic acid easily absorbable through the stomach lining.

I seem to have more issues with sodium ascorbate than vitamin C powder from natural sources. I have just ordered ascorbyl palmitate so I can try this form. But yeah maybe it's a gut issue.

 

[yerrag]

My calcium is a bit low, definitely not high. My HTMA makes me a fast oxidizer which would explain why I can't take vitamin C. Still I think vitamin C would fix some of my issues.



I seem to have more issues with sodium ascorbate than vitamin C powder from natural sources. I have just ordered ascorbyl palmitate so I can try this form. But yeah maybe it's a gut issue.

I remember trying out sodium ascorbate once and I felt itchy. I used l-ascorbic acid powder and I'm fine. I wonder if it was because the sodium ascorbate I took was in tablet form and it was the excipients causing the problem.

What is vitamin C powder from natural sources? The only vitamin C powder I know is synthetic. Do you mean natural fruit powder containing vitamin C?

Let us know how the ascorbyl palmitate works for you.

 

[nikotrope]

I use a powder made from Acerola cherries bought on iHerb.

 

[bennyha]

I get loose stools with only 1-2g of vitamin C per day, even split in 3-4 doses... Even though I am exhausted all the time vitamin C is probably not for me. My HTMA shows very low iron, copper, and magnesium with super high potassium. So I would guess tolerance is not related to the degree of sickness but is probably related to something else.

Yes I am the opposite. Potassium of 1, Sodium of 5, Calcium in the 160 range, and Magnesium around 30.

My numbers all had improved dramatically, but after eating Peat like for 4 months then re-testing, everything is back to square 1. Just goes to show everyone is so different and it’s nice to have some numbers to point me in the right direction as far as what isn’t helping me.

 

[bennyha]

Oh ok so he doesn't say ascorbic acid alone? I've just been adding a bit of bicarb which I did more of in the beginning. Do you make your mag ascorbate? All I have right now is mag lotion and pure mag hydroxide I wonder if it would react with the oxide.

Yeah it isn't surprising to me your iron overload got better not worse with C. Everyone around here is super cautious with OJ and meat but I think it isn't warranted. C is needed to protect against the iron.

No, I’m taking mineral ascorbates from a certain company in specific ratios based on my hair results. He also has me taking them with certain co-factors to help increase its effectiveness.

I think your approach is not too far off though. Also look into the YouTube guy I mentioned previously. He’s a bit goofy but very intelligent and echoes the same very beneficial sentiments about high dose AA as well.

 

[InChristAlone]

No, I’m taking mineral ascorbates from a certain company in specific ratios based on my hair results. He also has me taking them with certain co-factors to help increase its effectiveness.

I think your approach is not too far off though. Also look into the YouTube guy I mentioned previously. He’s a bit goofy but very intelligent and echoes the same very beneficial sentiments about high dose AA as well.

Oh that's neat. What is the Youtube Channel? I believe you just said a canadian guy.

 

[bennyha]

Oh that's neat. What is the Youtube Channel? I believe you just said a canadian guy.

I sent you a personal message with the info.

 

[Amazoniac]

At first I thought it was Abram Hoffer when mentioned before..

 

[Frankdee20]

This thread is growing bigger than a California wildfire, whoda thought

 

[InChristAlone]

This thread is growing bigger than a California wildfire, whoda thought

Yep with passion.

 

[yerrag]

High dose ascorbic acids in the form of magnesium, potassium, and sodium ascorbates have literally been my life saver.

Are you taking these so that you can get both these minerals as well as vitamin C?

I have iron overload and am taking it with meals and all my iron levels are lowering. Dr. G sent me many studies that contraindicated that. I and his many clients are proving this to not be true. I wouldnt worry about avoiding it with meals imo.

Thanks. I'm still wary of taking it with meals though, just because I had hemochromatosis before and had to blood let. Now, I couldn't donate blood because of my high blood pressure, so I could not risk having high iron again. Just being cautious.

Vitamin C is great. I have been taking 15 grams each day for the last month.

What condition are you dealing with?

I use a powder made from Acerola cherries bought on iHerb.

Yes, I've looked into that before. It is definitely natural, but the cost/gram is very high. You'd have to take a large quantity of the powder to get even 500mg of it.

 

[InChristAlone]

This is a really great video presentation on Ascorbate and heavy metals by Dr. Russell Jaffe:
"So the baseline from our point of view is about two grams a day just to keep even with the toxic metal exchange and more if you want to mobilize the prior burden that's been bio accumulated. This is all based on half-life it is not important how much of a nutrient you give it is important what the concentration or level of that is in the cells and because ascorbate in healthy people has a half-life of about 30 days and in unhealthy people has a half-life of about thirty minutes it has the widest variance of half-life of any molecule in biology because it is also essential for more reactions than any other molecule in biology. So while half-life is always important it is particularly important with the ascorbate and we achieve the same concentration when we give more ascorbate to achieve say the predictive dose because of that short half-life. So you may need 10 grams or 50 grams or a 100 grams of ascorbate to achieve the same concentration in the cell. In one case your half-life might be 15 days in another case your half-life might be an hour or two and then in the extreme cases even more variance so the consumption rate which is related to this half-life gives us a good enough for clinical ofr government work approximation of the daily need to achieve the same cell plasma level. And I do point out that if someone is taking a large amount of ascorbate because they have a lot of oxidative stress and toxic minerals in their body it is completely appropriate for them to take the amount they need based on calibration or your clinical experience because what you want is the concentration in the cell and if you're using up half in 30 minutes and another half in another 30 minutes you will have used 75% of what you had an hour ago in an hour, but if you have a 30 day half-life you can go for a day or two and you'll barely notice the difference. So really healthy people may only need a few grams of the ascorbate a day and finding really healthy people was so hard that when you.....?... a blessed memory did it in Wichita Kansas many years ago in a year of advertising they were not able to find more than 25 people in Wichita Kansas who were A.) healthy- that is asymptomatic by Cornell Medical index and B.) would talk to them. Now there may have been other healthy people in Wichita who just didn't respond but in terms of those who were willing to respond finding healthy people is roughly as common as finding hen's teeth."

-He says ~5% people flush at less than 4 grams and he considers this the healthy population (many would refute this claim in cases of serious gut problems)
-Ascorbate synergists: Magnesium, zinc, reduce metabolic acidosis to reduce side effects, sulfur sources, selenomethionine

I think this is helpful for those who fall in the less than healthy population (and you will know based on your BT).

 

[Arnold Grape]

It's interesting what he has to say in reference to high calcium intake and how that could become problematic without adequate magnesium, which is also instrumental in Vitamin C therapy. What I don't fully understand (only made it approximately half way through the video) is how one determines how they are metabolizing C and/ or how much they might need. I'm at about 2 grams daily not including food sources, which is -- according to this guy -- somewhat of a daily maintenance dose. How is this information skewed if you take b vitamins, for example? -Many of which also prevent oxidative burden, no? Or you have an incredible diet? Are there markers?

 

[InChristAlone]

It's interesting what he has to say in reference to high calcium intake and how that could become problematic without adequate magnesium, which is also instrumental in Vitamin C therapy. What I don't fully understand (only made it approximately half way through the video) is how one determines how they are metabolizing C and/ or how much they might need. I'm at about 2 grams daily not including food sources, which is -- according to this guy -- somewhat of a daily maintenance dose. How is this information skewed if you take b vitamins, for example? -Many of which also prevent oxidative burden, no? Or you have an incredible diet? Are there markers?

I know people in this thread questioned the bowel tolerance as a measure of how much your body needs. But most practitioners who use AA use the bowel tolerance as a means of gauging how healthy you are. Doesn't mean you have to take that dose every day but it does say how much you will likely need to heal. B vitamins aren't going to help if what you need is ascorbate. The problem with diets is you aren't exactly sure it is healthy, many different arguments on what is healthy and what is not. Some say only plant based diets are healthy, we even have some fruitarians in this group! Others say only what our ancestors had access to. But anyway, if you include lots of fresh ripe friuts and are healthy to begin with then you probably wouldn't be looking at taking vitamin C therapeutically.

 

[walker_in_aus]

Started dosing my partner with 1000-3000mg a day to treat his severe and debilitating allergies. He is amazed at the difference in a few days. Week ago he had eye drops, pills and steroids to sniff! now he's fine!

 

[yerrag]

Started dosing my partner with 1000-3000mg a day to treat his severe and debilitating allergies. He is amazed at the difference in a few days. Week ago he had eye drops, pills and steroids to sniff! now he's fine!

It is a confirmation of what I've read in Irwin Stone's book "Healing Factor." I used to have allergic rhinitis but I couldn't tell how I lost that allergy, so I don't get to experience having my allergy fixed by Vitamin C. I'm inclined to think that while Vitamin C is useful for allergies, efforts should still be made to determine what is causing that allergy. I think that as one gets his act together, allergies will disappear. As I look back at what changes I've made to my lifestyle, I think a lot of it has to do with a) better oxygenation with the removal of mercury from my system (mercury displaces the oxygen that attaches to hemoglobin), and better sugar control (at first I used to eat brown rice to meter the intake of sugar from the intestines to the blood vessels, and later to eliminating all use of PUFAs and enabling the body to metabolize sugar more readily; I switched back to eating white rice thereafter). I think that with both oxygen and sugar becoming more readily available for the body to use, the body simply regained the energy it was missing, and this may have helped me lose my allergic condition. I really believe that low blood sugar accentuates the body's reactions to insults, and that this condition could be a tipping point from not being allergic to being allergic.

So while I'm a fan of Vitamin C, I want to be conscious of not relying on it as a crutch, that I overlook the part of aiming to get rid of the crutch eventually. But lest I be misunderstood, I'm not at all saying that Vitamin C isn't needed, but I would like to just aim for a maintenance dose of say 1,000 mg daily, as I'm cognizant that we don't produce vitamin C and would consider it an essential vitamin.

 

[yerrag]

I failed to mention that apart from getting sufficient oxygen and sugar, we have to ensure that they are used efficiently by the body to produce energy- enough thyroid, enough carbon dioxide, less inflammation through elimination of endotoxins and radiation, enough copper, lessening blue light and increasing red light - to enable the full use of oxidation metabolism. The abundance of energy enables the body to regenerate, rebuild, and heal, and be able to counter threats such as cancer and infections. Allergies are a manifestation of the body's susceptibility due to imbalances and deficiencies, a symptom of a deeper issue.

 

[InChristAlone]

Was going to post this in the Haidut vitamin D thread, but will stay out of that. Here is Dr. G saying you need more than you can get from food of Vitamin C , magnesium and boron to have good vitamin D status.

 

[yerrag]

Interesting Janelle525. Thank you.

Also talks about Vitamin C helping with iron detox, instead of what's commonly seen of Vitamin C aggravating iron status in this forum, and along with Ray Peat's thoughts.

With regard to vitamin C and iron, I'm open to rethinking my view of their relationship but I'm trying to find an explanation for the difference in explanation for the mehanism of action of vitamin C and iron, perhaps involving whether the iron exists in the ferrous Fe2+ or ferric Fe3+ form. If anyone who think he's found a unified view of the vitamin C and iron relationship, please share. Hoping it's unpacked as well of complexity. I guess I have a hard time when the explanation gets too complex with jargon, which often is the case with studies. I admit they make me doze off and sleep well.

Am also curious if Dr. G speaks in the same language as Gbolduev, except maybe for the better presentation skills, given that he talks on HTMA, vitamin D, minerals excess of calcium. Is he also a practitioner of metabolic typing?

 

[Mito]

With regard to vitamin C and iron, I'm open to rethinking my view of their relationship but I'm trying to find an explanation for the difference in explanation for the mehanism of action of vitamin C and iron, perhaps involving whether the iron exists in the ferrous Fe2+ or ferric Fe3+ form.

To be absorbed, dietary iron must be in the reduced ferrous form. Vitamin C reduces the ferric form of iron to the absorbable ferrous form. Heme iron is in the reduced ferrous (Fe2+) form. Plant iron is the oxidized ferric (Fe3+) form.