Vitamin C

[InChristAlone]

@Amazoniac do you really like that Accu cell website? You seem to take them as an authority but after browsing more I've seen some pretty questionable statements. They frown upon high sugar sources for instance and repeat the tired argument that it leads to more heart disease than fat and also increases risk of diabetes. They also said ADD could be caused by lack of discipline and that more balanced people prefer less stimulating music. Interesting. I have one child who is turning out to be quite the young man, and another whom is a bit more challenging and he receives by far more discipline than the other due to his behavior. I just have to laugh. I'd call their website more of an opinion than an authority.

Oh and another thought, they said vitamin C could exacerbate hypoglycemia by increasing insulin response, well nope not for me, I tended to have blood sugar crashes in fact it was the worst it ever was when I started taking it and while yes it seemed to make me a bit irritable at first it got better and better.

 

[yerrag]

Oh and another thought, they said vitamin C could exacerbate hypoglycemia by increasing insulin response, well nope not for me, I tended to have blood sugar crashes in fact it was the worst it ever was when I started taking it and while yes it seemed to make me a bit irritable at first it got better and better.

I discovered this by accident. I had a busy day one time, had a light breakfast and shortly thereafter took a gulp of vitamin C , skipped lunch, and when I got home at 3pm, I took my blood pressure and pulse. I wasn't feeling hungry nor lacking in energy, and sure enough, my pulse was unusually high at around 80, yet my blood pressure was better than usual. This made me think that Vitamin C helped with blood sugar control, and somehow it also increased my metabolism. That it increased my metabolism without increasing my blood pressure was something also. I felt it just made my metabolism more efficient, without requiring more oxygen input, and that it didn't increase my blood pressure probably meant it didn't increase my oxygen requirements. Perhaps it even lessened it.

 

[Frankdee20]

As a Serotonin antagonist?

It’s unclear if Zinc hits auto receptors or receiving ones, all I see is that it’s a positive alosteric modulator of 1A

 

[Amazoniac]

Are you saying Gerson therapy could be the cure for all disease?

?

Did you read the Paul Jaminet's scurvy story? He needed mega doses to recover. He uses whole foods!!!! Yet he got scurvy!!!! I mean I can't believe no one has commented about that.

He developed scurvy when he was eating a very low-carb diet. "Developing scurvy was a surprise, because I was eating many vegetables plus taking a multivitamin containing 90 mg of vitamin C. I had never had any signs of vitamin C deficiency before adopting a low-carb diet." Guess how much he recommends now?

If you find the time to read Irwin Stone's book "The Healing Factor," then you would understand

Ironically a link to Irwin's free book was the second comment that I left on Nathan's article, which he didn't approve for some reason.

do you really like that Accu cell website? You seem to take them as an authority but after browsing more I've seen some pretty questionable statements.

But you still listen to what Ray has to say, despite not agreeing with all he says. The guy might be an ignorant, but in terms of nutrient interactions, he tests them and gets a response despite a flawed explanation for why they occuring in his patients.

If I'm not wrong, Irwin Stone and Linus Pauling believed that the majority of people need around 2000-2300mg a day. So we're getting closer to a reasonable dose. Albert Szent-Györgyi wrote The Healing Factor's foreword. He used to take 1g most of the time. What to make out of that?

Sometimes stress is needed to get rid of a problem. Or sometimes the stress is so great that diet isn't enough. But it doesn't mean that the same amount required for those purposes is good or sustainable in the long-term. You guys are confusing its therapeutic value with a balanced dose when everything is optimized.
Consider the whole picture when searching: "vitamin c high/mega-dose long-term". You'll notice that the results start to become cloudy.

 

[yerrag]

If I'm not wrong, Irwin Stone and Linus Pauling believed that the majority of people need around 2000-2300mg a day. So we're getting closer to a reasonable dose. Albert Szent-Györgyi wrote The Healing Factor's foreword. He used to take 1g most of the time. What to make out of that?

1g is all a person in a good state of health requires. There is no contradiction. The more sick a person is, the more vitamin C is needed. That is how I see it. "Most of the time" means there are times when more is needed.

Sometimes stress is needed to get rid of a problem. Or sometimes the stress is so great that diet isn't enough. But it doesn't mean that the same amount required for those purposes is good or sustainable in the long-term. You guys are confusing its therapeutic value with a balanced dose when everything is optimized.
Consider the whole picture when searching: "vitamin c high/mega-dose long-term". You'll notice that the results start to become cloudy.

I don't see mega-dosing to be a long term practice. You can start with a mega-dose, and as your condition gets better, the dosage will go down over time. And I'm not saying simply mega-dosing vitamin C will be enough to correct a stress condition. Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. But Vitamin C nonetheless assists in relieving the stress, if not outright relieving the stress. You can use Vitamin C while you're still in the stage of diagnosis, before you have decided on an appropriate protocol, and continue to use it together with that protocol. As the person goes about healing, his need for vitamin C will decrease. The need for vitamin C can be determined by the C-Flush Test, where the amount taken to reach bowel flush is used to determine the daily dosage level. This dosage level may start out as a large amount, a megadose if necessary, but the dosage level is expected to keep decreasing as the stress condition is increasingly being relieved. Subsequent C-Flush tests are expected to show that daily levels would keep getting lower.

Definitely, megadosing as a long-term practice is not something that is encouraged.

 

[InChristAlone]

I discovered this by accident. I had a busy day one time, had a light breakfast and shortly thereafter took a gulp of vitamin C , skipped lunch, and when I got home at 3pm, I took my blood pressure and pulse. I wasn't feeling hungry nor lacking in energy, and sure enough, my pulse was unusually high at around 80, yet my blood pressure was better than usual. This made me think that Vitamin C helped with blood sugar control, and somehow it also increased my metabolism. That it increased my metabolism without increasing my blood pressure was something also. I felt it just made my metabolism more efficient, without requiring more oxygen input, and that it didn't increase my blood pressure probably meant it didn't increase my oxygen requirements. Perhaps it even lessened it.

Yes I noticed less need for food. Which is completely opposite to the last 3 yrs of my life.

 

[InChristAlone]

?

He developed scurvy when he was eating a very low-carb diet. "Developing scurvy was a surprise, because I was eating many vegetables plus taking a multivitamin containing 90 mg of vitamin C. I had never had any signs of vitamin C deficiency before adopting a low-carb diet." Guess how much he recommends now?

Ironically a link to Irwin's free book was the second comment that I left on Nathan's article, which he didn't approve for some reason.

But you still listen to what Ray has to say, despite not agreeing with all he says. The guy might be an ignorant, but in terms of nutrient interactions, he tests them and gets a response despite a flawed explanation for why they occuring in his patients.

If I'm not wrong, Irwin Stone and Linus Pauling believed that the majority of people need around 2000-2300mg a day. So we're getting closer to a reasonable dose. Albert Szent-Györgyi wrote The Healing Factor's foreword. He used to take 1g most of the time. What to make out of that?

Sometimes stress is needed to get rid of a problem. Or sometimes the stress is so great that diet isn't enough. But it doesn't mean that the same amount required for those purposes is good or sustainable in the long-term. You guys are confusing its therapeutic value with a balanced dose when everything is optimized.
Consider the whole picture when searching: "vitamin c high/mega-dose long-term". You'll notice that the results start to become cloudy.

Yes he explains why low carb diets would put you at risk for scurvy despite having enough in the diet. Which refutes the claim that eating meat prevents scurvy. Well no not unless you get sufficient carbs, AND the meat is fresh.

How does that accu cell website test all the nutrients?

Stress is needed to get rid of a problem? I was under an extreme amount of stress when I got ill... no amount of stressing me further could have made me well. I might have landed in the hospital had I tried a fast for instance. And I was one of the typical can't go 2 hrs without sugar people before trying C. Also needed to eat right away in the morning. If C is so stressful for me I'd have known it a long time ago.

That being said I do think balance is needed. And this convo has made me question whether I've gotten enough by now and can decrease to maintenance.

So there is something about zinc for me... My kids got sick (they don't take much C my son hates the taste) and I felt I will likely get it too because of the stress of caring for a new dog and sure enough soon after doing a 18 mg zinc acetate lozenge my throat was sore and I was very warm! This has happened in the past it seems to accelerate the sickness. My colds only last a couple days whereas everyone around me it lingers. But I do wonder if that means I am lacking copper now. Liver it is today!!

 

[bennyha]

Yes he explains why low carb diets would put you at risk for scurvy despite having enough in the diet. Which refutes the claim that eating meat prevents scurvy. Well no not unless you get sufficient carbs, AND the meat is fresh.

How does that accu cell website test all the nutrients?

Stress is needed to get rid of a problem? I was under an extreme amount of stress when I got ill... no amount of stressing me further could have made me well. I might have landed in the hospital had I tried a fast for instance. And I was one of the typical can't go 2 hrs without sugar people before trying C. Also needed to eat right away in the morning. If C is so stressful for me I'd have known it a long time ago.

That being said I do think balance is needed. And this convo has made me question whether I've gotten enough by now and can decrease to maintenance.

So there is something about zinc for me... My kids got sick (they don't take much C my son hates the taste) and I felt I will likely get it too because of the stress of caring for a new dog and sure enough soon after doing a 18 mg zinc acetate lozenge my throat was sore and I was very warm! This has happened in the past it seems to accelerate the sickness. My colds only last a couple days whereas everyone around me it lingers. But I do wonder if that means I am lacking copper now. Liver it is today!!

Janelle are you working with Dr. G? He has me on a low dose of chlorophyll which contains sodium copper chlorophyllin to make sure copper doesn't get too low.

I'm just going by my tests and the way I feel. High dose vitamin C has literally given me a semblance of my life back. I've had chronic fatigue for years after 3 years of fasting, over exercising, under eating, low carb, etc. I've worked with the best of the best naturopaths that everyone knows here and in the online world. Nobody helped, and most actually put me in a deeper hole. I've been doing HTMA for 3 years and slowly making progress. Then I tried Peating and got my HTMA results back and everything was back to the start. Super high CA and Magnesium levels and bottomed out K and Na.

I agreed with a lot of things that Gboldeev (or whatever his name was) guy said in his thread. Mainly about how Peating when having slow oxidation making things worse. In my case (and apparently others) this was true. Then I stopped eating and drinking all the calcium and things started improving again.

Then I added the Vitamin C protocol that Dr. G has, and my life instantly changed. It's the ONLY thing that has made me feel better in the past 8 years. I was taking 100 grams to start out before getting diarrhea! (I slowly worked up to that amount). That's how sick I was! The sicker a person is, the more Vitamin C they can take (generally) without getting diarrhea. As I've gotten better and feeling better, I'm currently around 25g until I get loose stools and that number is slowly lowering as I get feeling better.

Also, there's a Canadian guy that has a huge following on YouTube and has helped many people with health problems, and he is a huge proponent of taking large amounts of Ascorbic Acid until bowel tolerance. People think it's too easy and simple to be true. I ignored this guys advice the first time around for many years. Thankfully, I started the protocol earlier this summer, and for the first time since I got sick 8 years ago, I feel like I'm getting my life back.

I'm not here to argue or debate. You can find pro's and con's in every single supplement, diet, mineral, etc. I'm just here to share you what worked FOR ME when nothing else did. My iron levels are rapidly going down and my HTMA results are now normalizing. But most important is I FEEL good again. Not back to where I was before I got sick, but so much better than in the previous 8 years and I feel like I'm getting my life back.

 

[InChristAlone]

Janelle are you working with Dr. G? He has me on a low dose of chlorophyll which contains sodium copper chlorophyllin to make sure copper doesn't get too low.

I'm just going by my tests and the way I feel. High dose vitamin C has literally given me a semblance of my life back. I've had chronic fatigue for years after 3 years of fasting, over exercising, under eating, low carb, etc. I've worked with the best of the best naturopaths that everyone knows here and in the online world. Nobody helped, and most actually put me in a deeper hole. I've been doing HTMA for 3 years and slowly making progress. Then I tried Peating and got my HTMA results back and everything was back to the start. Super high CA and Magnesium levels and bottomed out K and Na.

I agreed with a lot of things that Gboldeev (or whatever his name was) guy said in his thread. Mainly about how Peating when having slow oxidation making things worse. In my case (and apparently others) this was true. Then I stopped eating and drinking all the calcium and things started improving again.

Then I added the Vitamin C protocol that Dr. G has, and my life instantly changed. It's the ONLY thing that has made me feel better in the past 8 years. I was taking 100 grams to start out before getting diarrhea! (I slowly worked up to that amount). That's how sick I was! The sicker a person is, the more Vitamin C they can take (generally) without getting diarrhea. As I've gotten better and feeling better, I'm currently around 25g until I get loose stools and that number is slowly lowering as I get feeling better.

Also, there's a Canadian guy that has a huge following on YouTube and has helped many people with health problems, and he is a huge proponent of taking large amounts of Ascorbic Acid until bowel tolerance. People think it's too easy and simple to be true. I ignored this guys advice the first time around for many years. Thankfully, I started the protocol earlier this summer, and for the first time since I got sick 8 years ago, I feel like I'm getting my life back.

I'm not here to argue or debate. You can find pro's and con's in every single supplement, diet, mineral, etc. I'm just here to share you what worked FOR ME when nothing else did. My iron levels are rapidly going down and my HTMA results are now normalizing. But most important is I FEEL good again. Not back to where I was before I got sick, but so much better than in the previous 8 years and I feel like I'm getting my life back.

No, Dr. G blocked me way back when I was super into sugar and coke. I'm not anymore. So glad he helped you! Yout story is another inspiring story that should not be dismissed because an authoritarian says it isn't safe.

Wow 100 grams! That's the most I've heard of. Most people give up around 50 or 60 call it a day start again another day especially if they feel like puking. Which I probably would have at 100!! I started out at 29 although it took me hrs to get up to that. Then several months later I tried again and it was around 15, now a yr later it's 8 if I take it all within 20 mins.

Yeah I really think anyone with high hair calcium should try out C. Which mine was a couple yrs ago. Sodium wasn't that out of range though. I want to test again just not sure who to go through. I had gotten one from a friend who does it for $55. We aren't friends anymore

I might look into chlorophyll.

Curious did you do gobs of mag like he suggests too? I used to get as much as I could when I was sick but it never seemed to 'cure' me. Guess it wasn't really what I needed.

 

[bennyha]

No, Dr. G blocked me way back when I was super into sugar and coke. I'm not anymore. So glad he helped you! Yout story is another inspiring story that should not be dismissed because an authoritarian says it isn't safe.

Wow 100 grams! That's the most I've heard of. Most people give up around 50 or 60 call it a day start again another day especially if they feel like puking. Which I probably would have at 100!! I started out at 29 although it took me hrs to get up to that. Then several months later I tried again and it was around 15, now a yr later it's 8 if I take it all within 20 mins.

Yeah I really think anyone with high hair calcium should try out C. Which mine was a couple yrs ago. Sodium wasn't that out of range though. I want to test again just not sure who to go through. I had gotten one from a friend who does it for $55. We aren't friends anymore

I might look into chlorophyll.

Curious did you do gobs of mag like he suggests too? I used to get as much as I could when I was sick but it never seemed to 'cure' me. Guess it wasn't really what I needed.

He has softened his stance on Magnesium quite a bit since the start. Basically now just take up to 400 mg of Magnesium in the magnesium ascorbate and then the sprays are basically optional depending on your levels.

I take my mineral ascorbates spaced out through the day 4x. I've never felt sick or anything from it. I used to get very bad gas, but that passed as well. I also sloooowly worked up to that level over the case of a couple months. After I finally got to diarrhea, it steadily has come down over the proceeding months. I really think that never getting up to bowel tolerance in the past was why I never had the success.

He is very focused on iron overload, which after a few tests I found out I had. Sky high ferritin and other results that suggested I had that. So the high dose vitamin C protocol has been very helpful in lowering that, and I take all my doses with food except the one right before bed.

 

[InChristAlone]

He has softened his stance on Magnesium quite a bit since the start. Basically now just take up to 400 mg of Magnesium in the magnesium ascorbate and then the sprays are basically optional depending on your levels.

I take my mineral ascorbates spaced out through the day 4x. I've never felt sick or anything from it. I used to get very bad gas, but that passed as well. I also sloooowly worked up to that level over the case of a couple months. After I finally got to diarrhea, it steadily has come down over the proceeding months. I really think that never getting up to bowel tolerance in the past was why I never had the success.

He is very focused on iron overload, which after a few tests I found out I had. Sky high ferritin and other results that suggested I had that. So the high dose vitamin C protocol has been very helpful in lowering that, and I take all my doses with food except the one right before bed.

Oh ok so he doesn't say ascorbic acid alone? I've just been adding a bit of bicarb which I did more of in the beginning. Do you make your mag ascorbate? All I have right now is mag lotion and pure mag hydroxide I wonder if it would react with the oxide.

Yeah it isn't surprising to me your iron overload got better not worse with C. Everyone around here is super cautious with OJ and meat but I think it isn't warranted. C is needed to protect against the iron.

 

[Amazoniac]

1g is all a person in a good state of health requires. There is no contradiction. The more sick a person is, the more vitamin C is needed. That is how I see it. "Most of the time" means there are times when more is needed.

Definitely, megadosing as a long-term practice is not something that is encouraged.

There we have it.

 

[Amazoniac]

We can get caught up in coulds and shoulds

Janelle, you forgot the one that unlocks the portal to infinite knowledge: would.

 

[InChristAlone]

Janelle, you forgot the one that unlocks the portal to infinite knowledge: would.

Ha! C would help!

 

[Lucenzo01]

Vitamin C is great. I have been taking 15 grams each day for the last month.

 

[nikotrope]

Janelle are you working with Dr. G? He has me on a low dose of chlorophyll which contains sodium copper chlorophyllin to make sure copper doesn't get too low.

I'm just going by my tests and the way I feel. High dose vitamin C has literally given me a semblance of my life back. I've had chronic fatigue for years after 3 years of fasting, over exercising, under eating, low carb, etc. I've worked with the best of the best naturopaths that everyone knows here and in the online world. Nobody helped, and most actually put me in a deeper hole. I've been doing HTMA for 3 years and slowly making progress. Then I tried Peating and got my HTMA results back and everything was back to the start. Super high CA and Magnesium levels and bottomed out K and Na.

I agreed with a lot of things that Gboldeev (or whatever his name was) guy said in his thread. Mainly about how Peating when having slow oxidation making things worse. In my case (and apparently others) this was true. Then I stopped eating and drinking all the calcium and things started improving again.

Then I added the Vitamin C protocol that Dr. G has, and my life instantly changed. It's the ONLY thing that has made me feel better in the past 8 years. I was taking 100 grams to start out before getting diarrhea! (I slowly worked up to that amount). That's how sick I was! The sicker a person is, the more Vitamin C they can take (generally) without getting diarrhea. As I've gotten better and feeling better, I'm currently around 25g until I get loose stools and that number is slowly lowering as I get feeling better.

Also, there's a Canadian guy that has a huge following on YouTube and has helped many people with health problems, and he is a huge proponent of taking large amounts of Ascorbic Acid until bowel tolerance. People think it's too easy and simple to be true. I ignored this guys advice the first time around for many years. Thankfully, I started the protocol earlier this summer, and for the first time since I got sick 8 years ago, I feel like I'm getting my life back.

I'm not here to argue or debate. You can find pro's and con's in every single supplement, diet, mineral, etc. I'm just here to share you what worked FOR ME when nothing else did. My iron levels are rapidly going down and my HTMA results are now normalizing. But most important is I FEEL good again. Not back to where I was before I got sick, but so much better than in the previous 8 years and I feel like I'm getting my life back.

I get loose stools with only 1-2g of vitamin C per day, even split in 3-4 doses... Even though I am exhausted all the time vitamin C is probably not for me. My HTMA shows very low iron, copper, and magnesium with super high potassium. So I would guess tolerance is not related to the degree of sickness but is probably related to something else.

 

[InChristAlone]

I get loose stools with only 1-2g of vitamin C per day, even split in 3-4 doses... Even though I am exhausted all the time vitamin C is probably not for me. My HTMA shows very low iron, copper, and magnesium with super high potassium. So I would guess tolerance is not related to the degree of sickness but is probably related to something else.

What about your calcium? I mentioned if you are a slow oxidizer with high calcium you will feel better on C. If not then that is probably why the intolerance though some say it's a sign of gut malabsorption which there could be some truth to it.

 

[yerrag]

What about your calcium? I mentioned if you are a slow oxidizer with high calcium you will feel better on C. If not then that is probably why the intolerance though some say it's a sign of gut malabsorption which there could be some truth to it.

Some people don't take to l-ascorbic acid well because they have issues with their digestive system - stomach and gut. Cathcart says l-ascorbic acid intake is the preferred way, and if irritates the stomach/gut, those issues have to be resolved. L-ascorbic acid is more acidic that the buffered ascorbates, of which sodium ascorbate and calcium ascorbate (Ester-C) are the most common. Many people use these ascorbates in place of l-ascorbic acid, and they do well. But still, gut issues have to be looked at resolved.

From what I've gathered in going thru the Vitamin C foundation forum, Hickey (a professor) believes that ascorbic acid is absorbed thru the stomach, and what is left over that goes to the duodenum, is neutralized by bicarbonates coming from the pancreas. If there is some ascorbic acid left after the neutralization at the duodenum, it goes to the colon. The colon will react to the acidity by flushing it with water, and this is what we experience with the bowel flush. My personal conclusion, and it's just a guess, is that the body's need for vitamin C is expressed largely through the stomach lining's absorptive capacity for vitamin C, and what it can no longer absorb is left to be neutralized in a limited way in the duodenum, and the ascorbic acid that remains and goes to the colon is flushed. If the stomach is central to ascorbic acid absorption, then it requires the stomach to be healthy and fully functional, and a large of its functionality has to do with the ability to produce enough acid for digestion. In the case of ascorbic acid, the stomach has to have enough acidity, as it should, to render the ascorbic acid easily absorbable through the stomach lining.

 

[InChristAlone]

Some people don't take to l-ascorbic acid well because they have issues with their digestive system - stomach and gut. Cathcart says l-ascorbic acid intake is the preferred way, and if irritates the stomach/gut, those issues have to be resolved. L-ascorbic acid is more acidic that the buffered ascorbates, of which sodium ascorbate and calcium ascorbate (Ester-C) are the most common. Many people use these ascorbates in place of l-ascorbic acid, and they do well. But still, gut issues have to be looked at resolved.

From what I've gathered in going thru the Vitamin C foundation forum, Hickey (a professor) believes that ascorbic acid is absorbed thru the stomach, and what is left over that goes to the duodenum, is neutralized by bicarbonates coming from the pancreas. If there is some ascorbic acid left after the neutralization at the duodenum, it goes to the colon. The colon will react to the acidity by flushing it with water, and this is what we experience with the bowel flush. My personal conclusion, and it's just a guess, is that the body's need for vitamin C is expressed largely through the stomach lining's absorptive capacity for vitamin C, and what it can no longer absorb is left to be neutralized in a limited way in the duodenum, and the ascorbic acid that remains and goes to the colon is flushed. If the stomach is central to ascorbic acid absorption, then it requires the stomach to be healthy and fully functional, and a large of its functionality has to do with the ability to produce enough acid for digestion. In the case of ascorbic acid, the stomach has to have enough acidity, as it should, to render the ascorbic acid easily absorbable through the stomach lining.

Good explanation, yes I think there is a lot of truth to the gut problems causing the intolerance. A family member has developed IBS in the last few yrs (along with lots of other problems) and he can only take 1gram or less at a time.

 

[InChristAlone]

Nothing to see here just another vitamin C shill. ...5 gram a day-er