Vitamin C

[noordinary]

I agree they need to figure out the number and not just give a range.

I think you misunderstood me:
ppm is parts per million and the range “<...” is actually how it usually is presented. I meant that the concentration of mercury up to 2 ppm is high. 2 ppm is “the number”. It’s just it is high. And i wonder is it like that because of the lack of eqipment for a more precise measurement (in case of mercury it is usually up to .00) or the concentration turned out to be 1.99 ppm and they made it look as < 2 ppm (which in that case is true non the less).

 

[noordinary]

til she was pouring it down her throat (around 50 grams)

At possible concentration of 1.99 ppm now thats a lot of mercury to pour down one’s throat (about 100 microgram)

 

[InChristAlone]

At possible concentration of 1.99 ppm now thats a lot of mercury to pour down one’s throat (about 100 microgram)

I sure hope that's not the actual number! Yeah I understood you, just worded my comment wrong.

She has no toxicity issues she just had a healthy baby, and is graduating in nutrition. So I'd assume vit C isn't that contaminated with Mercury.

 

[noordinary]

I sure hope that's not the actual number! Yeah I understood you, just worded my comment wrong.

She has no toxicity issues she just had a healthy baby, and is graduating in nutrition. So I'd assume vit C isn't that contaminated with Mercury.

Idk if her baby is heathy? Do you know, like for sure?
The fact that she gives it to her kids cant be used as an argument: people feed their babies soy formula out there.
That she graduates in nutrition doesnt imply anything really with conventional education.
FYI here is to compare the rate of impurities: < 3 ppm for all heavy metals together (compare that to this ladies pure and best product with < 10 ppm)

 

[noordinary]

What can i say @Janelle525

I sure hope that's not the actual number!

you keep hoping!
Btw i just googled and that was the first COA to come up, this lady sure was searching long......for the cheapest bulk powder, maybe

 

[Travis]

Urinary organic acid tests measure asorbic acid and use it to indicate nutritional status of Vitamin C. Do you think this test is a meaningful measure of Vitamin C status considering the urine is collected after an overnight fast? I average 1 to 2 grams of vitamin c (according to MyFitnessPal) most days. But my urinary asorbic acid was flagged low. Low means more than two standard deviations below the median (of all males over age 13 that have ever taken the test).

If it was a determination of only ascorbate, this says little about the dehydroascorbate. Some methods measure both types; one method works by oxidizing ascorbate to dehydroascorbate with subsequent ortho-phenylenediamine conjugation, giving a molecule of characteristic ultraviolet detection frequencies. If they had just measured ascorbate (= dehydroascorbic acid + 2e⁻ + H⁺ [sic]*) then they would have missed‐out on dehydroascorbate—a molecule that can actually be regenerated back into ascorbate:

'Dehydroascorbate reductase, studied earlier and more extensively in plants, is now recognized as the intrinsic activity of thioltransferases and protein disulfide isomerase in animal cells. These enzymes catalyze the glutathione‐dependent two‐electron regeneration of ascorbic acid. The importance of the latter route of ascorbic acid renewal was seen in studies of GSH‐deficient rodents. GSH deficiency in newborn animals resulted in decreased tissue ascorbic acid and increased dehydroascorbate‐to‐ascorbate ratios.' ―Wells​

Furthermore, NADH‐dependent enzymatic activity has been detected in the rabbit lens which regenerates ascorbate. The author wasn't sure if this was an independent protein, or a subsection of a previously‐identified lens crystallin protein:

'The rabbit lens β‐crystallin fraction may also contain λ-crystallin, and the 32–33 kDa protein identified in the present study may be its crystallin subunit. It has been reported that λ-crystallin showis 30% homology to hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase and contains a putative NADH binding site, but its enzyme activity is as yet unidentified. The NAPH-dependent dehydroascorbate reductase activity may be also associated with oligomeric λ-crystallin. Thus, it is of interest whether β‐crystallin forms oligomers with λ-crystallin and this molecular association brings about the dehydroascorbate reductase activity.' ―Akatsuka​

(Reduced ascorbate is thought to play a functional role in the lens, where it acts to keep proteins from being oxidized. These proteins determine the specific refractive index of the lens; a change in these could bring‐about refractive changes.)

So dehydroascorbate is important too, and can prevent scurvy in itself. Measuring just ascorbate—as done by some methods—is tantamount, in part, to measuring redox balance. Perhaps they had simply measured ascorbate, and you are a bit low on NADH and/or glutathione?

[1] Akatsuka, Ichiko. "NADH-dependent dehydroascorbate reductase in the rabbit lens." Tokai journal of experimental and clinical medicine (2001)
[2] Omaye, Stanley T., J. "Selected methods for the determination of ascorbic acid in animal cells, tissues, and fluids." Methods in enzymology (1979)
[3] Wells, William W. "Dehydroascorbate reduction." Journal of bioenergetics and biomembranes (1994)
[*]Many molecules exist in deprotonated or protonated forms in solution—such as the carboxylic acids and amides—and ascorbic acid is no exception. In the body, each ascorbic acid molecule loses one H⁺ to becomes ascorbate. If it didn't do this, it wouldn't have a pKa of 4.17 (and wouldn't even be called an 'acid' in the first place.)​

 

[noordinary]

And the fact that she uses .org domain is unethical and pisses me off. If you sell stuff on your web site have some dignity and change the domain to .com better yet to .biz in her case.
btw the pineapples are in season, just saying

 

[lollipop]

And the fact that she uses .org domain is unethical and pisses me off. If you sell stuff on your web site have some dignity and change the domain to .com better yet to .biz in her case.
btw the pineapples are in season, just saying

Thanks for keeping it real @noordinary.

 

[InChristAlone]

And the fact that she uses .org domain is unethical and pisses me off. If you sell stuff on your web site have some dignity and change the domain to .com better yet to .biz in her case.
btw the pineapples are in season, just saying

You don't have to get an attitude about this.

Pineapples have never digested that well for me. But I could try them again.

Your example shows only lead. So that's a great lead number but what about all the others?

 

[InChristAlone]

If it was a determination of only ascorbate, this says little about the dehydroascorbate. Some methods measure both types; one method works by oxidizing ascorbate to dehydroascorbate with subsequent ortho-phenylenediamine conjugation, giving a molecule of characteristic ultraviolet detection frequencies. If they had just measured ascorbate (= dehydroascorbic acid + 2e⁻ + H⁺ [sic]*) then they would have missed‐out on dehydroascorbate—a molecule that can actually be regenerated back into ascorbate:

'Dehydroascorbate reductase, studied earlier and more extensively in plants, is now recognized as the intrinsic activity of thioltransferases and protein disulfide isomerase in animal cells. These enzymes catalyze the glutathione‐dependent two‐electron regeneration of ascorbic acid. The importance of the latter route of ascorbic acid renewal was seen in studies of GSH‐deficient rodents. GSH deficiency in newborn animals resulted in decreased tissue ascorbic acid and increased dehydroascorbate‐to‐ascorbate ratios.' ―Wells​

Furthermore, NADH‐dependent enzymatic activity has been detected in the rabbit lens which regenerates ascorbate. The author wasn't sure if this was an independent protein, or a subsection of a previously‐identified lens crystallin protein:

'The rabbit lens β‐crystallin fraction may also contain λ-crystallin, and the 32–33 kDa protein identified in the present study may be its crystallin subunit. It has been reported that λ-crystallin showis 30% homology to hydroxyacyl-CoA dehydrogenase and contains a putative NADH binding site, but its enzyme activity is as yet unidentified. The NAPH-dependent dehydroascorbate reductase activity may be also associated with oligomeric λ-crystallin. Thus, it is of interest whether β‐crystallin forms oligomers with λ-crystallin and this molecular association brings about the dehydroascorbate reductase activity.' ―Akatsuka​

(Reduced ascorbate is thought to play a functional role in the lens, where it acts to keep proteins from being oxidized. These proteins determine the specific refractive index of the lens; a change in these could bring‐about refractive changes.)

So dehydroascorbate is important too, and can prevent scurvy in itself. Measuring just ascorbate—as done by some methods—is tantamount, in part, to measuring redox balance. Perhaps they had simply measured ascorbate, and you are a bit low on NADH and/or glutathione?

[1] Akatsuka, Ichiko. "NADH-dependent dehydroascorbate reductase in the rabbit lens." Tokai journal of experimental and clinical medicine (2001)
[2] Omaye, Stanley T., J. "Selected methods for the determination of ascorbic acid in animal cells, tissues, and fluids." Methods in enzymology (1979)
[3] Wells, William W. "Dehydroascorbate reduction." Journal of bioenergetics and biomembranes (1994)
[*]Many molecules exist in deprotonated or protonated forms in solution—such as the carboxylic acids and amides—and ascorbic acid is no exception. In the body, each ascorbic acid molecule loses one H⁺ to becomes ascorbate. If it didn't do this, it wouldn't have a pKa of 4.17 (and wouldn't even be called an 'acid' in the first place.)​

The DHA form has not always prevented scurvy, as those on an all meat diet have gotten scurvy.

 

[InChristAlone]

What can i say @Janelle525
you keep hoping!
Btw i just googled and that was the first COA to come up, this lady sure was searching long......for the cheapest bulk powder, maybe

No, I've seen her discussing itgoing way back before she ever became a small business, she would never sell a contaminated product that makes people sick. Whether you believe me I don't care. I have no game in her business. I'm just a stay at home Mom and her story was inspiring to me when I was going through a similar thing as she did. She documented it. It's not some made up story to get people's money. Sorry if you find her business unethical take it up with her not me.

 

[InChristAlone]

I will say I was a big skeptic before learning about her and orthomolecular medicine, and Drs Linus Pauling, Abram Hoffer, Andrew Saul, Robert Cathcart (who was denied vit c in the hospital), Thomas Levy. So I don't blame you all for not wanting to take it.

 

[Travis]

The DHA form has not always prevented scurvy, as those on an all meat diet have gotten scurvy.

'Vitamin C is the enolic form of an α-ketolactone. The endiol groups at the second and third carbon atoms are sensitive to oxidation and can easily convert into a diketo group, L-dehydroascorbic acid. This oxidized form of the vitamin is just as effective against scurvy as the reduced substance.' ―Stanley T. Omaye, David Turnbull, and Howard E. Sauberlich

Omaye, Stanley T., J. "Selected methods for the determination of ascorbic acid in animal cells, tissues, and fluids." Methods in enzymology (1979)
​

Dehydroascorbate is further oxidized, irreversibly, to L‐diketogulonic acid. This is an open‐ring form and represents inactive vitamin C. Dehydroascorbate is still active, or has potential for such, since it can be reduced back to ascorbate by glutathione and NADH.

 

[InChristAlone]

'Vitamin C is the enolic form of an α-ketolactone. The endiol groups at the second and third carbon atoms are sensitive to oxidation and can easily convert into a diketo group, L-dehydroascorbic acid. This oxidized form of the vitamin is just as effective against scurvy as the reduced substance.' ―Stanley T. Omaye, David Turnbull, and Howard E. Sauberlich

Omaye, Stanley T., J. "Selected methods for the determination of ascorbic acid in animal cells, tissues, and fluids." Methods in enzymology (1979)
​

Dehydroascorbate is further oxidized, irreversibly, to L‐diketogulonic acid. This is an open‐ring form and represents inactive vitamin C. Dehydroascorbate is still active, or has potential for such, since it can be reduced back to ascorbate by glutathione and NADH.

Yeah but only if the meat is fresh and lightly cooked. Sailors were dropping dead because they had no fresh food. Preserved meat didn't work.
There's also Paul Jaminet's scurvy story on a zero carb diet with plant food!!! Danger of Zero-Carb Diets III: Scurvy - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet
He explains the whole vitamin C system and how even when eating it you can become very deficient and then you absolutely should not be caring one iota whether there is 5 ppm heavy metals or 6. Get the C if you have any signs.

 

[noordinary]

No, I've seen her discussing itgoing way back before she ever became a small business, she would never sell a contaminated product that makes people sick. Whether you believe me I don't care. I have no game in her business. I'm just a stay at home Mom and her story was inspiring to me when I was going through a similar thing as she did. She documented it. It's not some made up story to get people's money. Sorry if you find her business unethical take it up with her not me.

@Janelle525 I'm sorry you got offended, I did not mean it that way.
The product she is selling is not the best quality, her COA says it itself, the COA itself looks suspicious (what lab did the analysis? certified by whom? where is a lot number? especially if it says 'Analysis is subject to change with each batch of ascorbic acid.").
She used to recommend a different vitamin C supplement before (she figured out she could make some money herself instead of making money to someone else?)
What kind of Vitamin C and brand?
Yes her story is inspiring, I'm sure you have no game in her business (she does though). But 15 - 30 grams of this stuff? A gram for every year of life to children?
@Janelle525 now put your "mama bear" aside, no need to be defensive, because I'm not trying to offend you.
Maybe go get yourself and your kiddo a juicy pineapple. jk (not really)
And I would highly recommend these books on precocious babies:
Magic Trees of the Mind : How to Nurture Your Child's Intelligence, Creativity, and Healthy Emotions from Birth Through Adolescence by Marian Diamond
Magical Child by Joseph Chilton Pearce
While You Are Expecting: Creating Your Own Prenatal Classroom by F. Renee Van Dr Car
I'm not a sceptic about her methods (i am a little to be completely honest, just because i dropped the idea of a Magic pill long ago), I am not aware of

Abram Hoffer, Andrew Saul, Robert Cathcart (who was denied vit c in the hospital), Thomas Levy

work.
I'm just saying that the ascorbic acid she is selling on her .org web site (' The domain was originally intended for non-profit entities, but this restriction was not enforced and has been removed. The domain is commonly used by schools, open-source projects, and communities, but also by some for-profit entities.' .org - Wikipedia ) has a pretty high concentration of heavy metals and mercury in particular.

 

[Mito]

If it was a determination of only ascorbate,

I’m not sure the method Great Plains Laboratory used but my guess is that it’s only indication of ascorbic acid.

Perhaps they had simply measured ascorbate, and you are a bit low on NADH

Or high NAD+?

or glutathione?

Pyroglutamic and 2-Hydroxybutyric acid levels were in a normal range indicative of normal glutathione status.

 

[InChristAlone]

@Janelle525 I'm sorry you got offended, I did not mean it that way.
The product she is selling is not the best quality, her COA says it itself, the COA itself looks suspicious (what lab did the analysis? certified by whom? where is a lot number? especially if it says 'Analysis is subject to change with each batch of ascorbic acid.").
She used to recommend a different vitamin C supplement before (she figured out she could make some money herself instead of making money to someone else?)
What kind of Vitamin C and brand?
Yes her story is inspiring, I'm sure you have no game in her business (she does though). But 15 - 30 grams of this stuff? A gram for every year of life to children?
@Janelle525 now put your "mama bear" aside, no need to be defensive, because I'm not trying to offend you.
Maybe go get yourself and your kiddo a juicy pineapple. jk (not really)
And I would highly recommend these books on precocious babies:
Magic Trees of the Mind : How to Nurture Your Child's Intelligence, Creativity, and Healthy Emotions from Birth Through Adolescence by Marian Diamond
Magical Child by Joseph Chilton Pearce
While You Are Expecting: Creating Your Own Prenatal Classroom by F. Renee Van Dr Car
I'm not a sceptic about her methods (i am a little to be completely honest, just because i dropped the idea of a Magic pill long ago), I am not aware of

work.
I'm just saying that the ascorbic acid she is selling on her .org web site (' The domain was originally intended for non-profit entities, but this restriction was not enforced and has been removed. The domain is commonly used by schools, open-source projects, and communities, but also by some for-profit entities.' .org - Wikipedia ) has a pretty high concentration of heavy metals and mercury in particular.

Ok, now that you have spoken in a different tone (hard to gauge tone in written word), I feel that you are making sure people are not buying a contaminated product so that's good, I will stop recommending her. As much as I like the product, it completely dissolves in seconds, some other products on the market need to be stirred a lot. I might now buy the vitamin c foundation quali C to compare. I'd be curious of the COA though. And I agree it should not be typed up by the business owner without any info on who did the analysis, lot numbers and things like that. But yes every batch comes with a new one.

I'm wondering why the book references? They sound good though!

 

[noordinary]

I'm wondering why the book references?

Because I'm a nerd and read about everything i can put my hands on on the topic that sparks an interest in me (as my grandma used to say, while trying to paint my nails, while i was trying to change pages, reading another book, when i was a kiddo: thanks god you are cute, it's no good for a girl to be that smart!" LOL)
But seriously, we are fckd up, but (our future) kids deserve a better chance especially considering the rate at which this world is disintegrating.
I don't think we can afford to be as naive and as stupid as out parents were, in this day and time.
You said her story was inspiring and said you are stay at home mom, so i thought the part about her having 4th baby and baby being so precocious inspired you.
Dr. Peat mentioned M. Diamond's work, so I got her two books, (you know how it happens, you start reading one book, when see a reference to another, and end up reading 5 books at the same time lol) Joseph Chilton Pearce is amazing (i don't agree with all he writes, but he've done some very interesting work) as did F. Renee Van Dr Car, now almost forgotten.
I'm a big fan of The Continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff, her little book is one of my favorite of all books of all times! (and that a lot of books and a lot of times)
If you'll have a spare hour, watch her interview
Idk she and I have so much similar personalities in some way, her work speaks to me. Too bad she died in 2011 I have so many questions.

 

[bennyha]

Why do you suppose the more you take the less it would effect someone? The lady whom I buy it from, she went from not being able to flush til she was pouring it down her throat (around 50 grams) to having a BT of like 3-4 grams. She lives a very productive life now whereas before she was sick not able to even care for her children. Peat surmised it's the laxative. But I only just in the last few months been doing more than a couple grams a day and yet I was still getting all the benefits without it being a laxative.

High dose ascorbic acids in the form of magnesium, potassium, and sodium ascorbates have literally been my life saver. I’ve been sick 8 years and NOTHING worked (and trust me I have tried everything) like this has. I gradually got worked up to 90 grams a day spread out over 4x a day before reaching bowell tolerance. Now I’m at 25 g and finally getting my life back. The research is there. Don’t skip this simple vitamin. It’s been a life saver for me

 

[Amazoniac]

I've never seen anywhere that says it affects all minerals. I know it helps absorb non heme iron. But the more iron in the system the more antioxidant support you need. Some say it lowers ceruloplasmin but some say that is a good thing. Like I said I want to see proof that it would affect any mineral negatively. I think the top things that most negatively effects minerals is caffeine and refined sugar. And those are widely promoted here. (I still consume plenty of sugar but try to do more meals instead of sugary milk and OJ, if I do juice it's always with cheese)

If I'm doing mega doses of C I just make sure to stay hydrated and get enough potassium. Speaking of potassium it was really great... 4.2, it was bottom of range 6 yrs ago. BUN/creatinine is the lowest it's been at 16, when I was feeling pretty yucky and this was an hr after coffee it was highest 28. Range 8-20. so that was good news I'm not seriously dehydrated anymore off all caffeine. Everything else was in range except my liver enzymes are a tiny bit elevated from the cypro for a yr.

I'm talking about the trace minerals. They all interact with iron, and if iron is affected, their levels will vary. In the case of copper I believe it's directly though.

The difference between lowering trace minerals through caffeine and sugar is that you're actually consuming them, rather than just excreting.

Regarding contamination, I think noordinary's point is good. I was concerned about it regarding magnesium. You have to consider the amount of stuff that you're ingesting, not just how the analysis look. If you ingest a substance on the mcg range, it's different than ingesting grams of it.