Vitamin A is required for male fertility

[Jonk]

I think it would be interesting to try to find explanations for why they see massive improvements in their health from restricting Vit. A.

Can it be just a sign of hypothyroidism?

 

[Peatness]

Thats was my assumption years ago when I realised the supplements were a disaster for me. I began removing high vit A foods recently and am more androgenic now than at any point Peating. I also stopped vit D/K supps and started reducing coffee in that time, all are supposedly androgenic, hmmm.

Interesting that you removed D and K. Do you drink milk?

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

I think it would be interesting to try to find explanations for why they see massive improvements in their health from restricting Vit. A.

I'd definitely be interested, as well.

at the moment, I'm going with Ray's understanding: that when hypothyroid, one can't utilize vitamin A properly, and therefore need less, or it can be toxic. therefore, it's largely metabolically dependent.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Thats was my assumption years ago when I realised the supplements were a disaster for me. I began removing high vit A foods recently and am more androgenic now than at any point Peating. I also stopped vit D/K supps and started reducing coffee in that time, all are supposedly androgenic, hmmm.

Was that perceived increase in androgens confirmed by blood tests?
How is your body temperature and pulse now?
How long have you been doing low A?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Taken from G. Genereux forum:

My testosterone is only 147, it is supposed to be over 300, can anyone offer advice?

16 weeks now and have had my testosterone value determined and it is as bad / low as never before. So I wonder if it's diet-related, maybe it's vitamin A / very low fat, or anything else I don't know. Or is it related to vitamin A detoxification? because I don't assume that I have a vitamin A deficiency after 4 months obviously

VA activates the CYP17A1 enzyme, which is responsible for converting cholesterol into pregnenolone (which converts into testosterone). Some people think VA is required for this conversion to happen but from what I've read it doesn't seem like the science is fully settled. I feel like low VA dieting lowers my androgen levels as well but I don't have the testing to prove it. I wish Grant would post sex hormone blood tests.

 

[aniciete]

I understand supplements of any sorts can be risky and even liver can cause issues in a lot of people, but this just seems false.

View: https://twitter.com/nutridetect/status/1508936095731355650?s=21&t=kVK8dyJvE5JrrfIXWZioSw

 

[Nebula]

I understand supplements of any sorts can be risky and even liver can cause issues in a lot of people, but this just seems false.

View: https://twitter.com/nutridetect/status/1508936095731355650?s=21&t=kVK8dyJvE5JrrfIXWZioSw

It may be possible if retinol transport proteins are low to non existent for high vitamin intake to cause damage. Maybe vitamin a isn’t absolutely necessary after puberty except in very small amounts and it’s transport mechanism is easily damaged. So people in this state perform much better with very low intake. I seem to be stuck in this condition and I can’t see how this could be normal or optimal. I don’t see why a healthy mammal should not be able to metabolize vitamin A.

 

[aniciete]

It may be possible if retinol transport proteins are low to non existent for high vitamin intake to cause damage. Maybe vitamin a isn’t absolutely necessary after puberty except in very small amounts and it’s transport mechanism is easily damaged. So people in this state perform much better with very low intake. I seem to be stuck in this condition and I can’t see how this could be normal or optimal. I don’t see why a healthy mammal should not be able to metabolize vitamin A.

Yeah I could understand that. Or like the people on RPF who supplement very very large amounts and it backfires. Smith doesn’t think that way though. He never mentions scenarios where eggs or dairy are “okay”. He just continues to call it poison probably to keep shilling his program.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Interesting that you removed D and K. Do you drink milk?

Still having dairy, I'm tapering off as im trying to go as slow as possible removing vitamin A after 4yrs Peating. Supplement wise I decided most of them just add more burden to the liver in the LONG TERM at least, the same with coffee. Currently just having mag oil, zinc an selenium.

Was that perceived increase in androgens confirmed by blood tests?
How is your body temperature and pulse now?
How long have you been doing low A?

Better erections, weight loss (only 3lb tho I was leanish anyway), stronger in workouts, harder arms and better muscle tone, balls hang lower and feel fuller :), way less evening fatigue, improved cognition...not done blood work but, sounds like androgens no?

Morning temps are higher (mid 97s out of bed) Peating I was high 96s to low 97s most of the time despite eating "pro metabolic" I never had good morning temps outside of peak summer here in England. Then high 97s to mid 98s the rest of the day and my pulse is 77-80 which was the same as Peating despite having way less coffee.

I've been tanking vit A for about 5 weeks so VERY early in my experiment, I just don't think I was burdening my liver with much else and having like 5-6x less vit A was a massive relief on my system tho obv stopping a few supps and less coffee might also of played a role.

 

[Beastmode]

I am posting about this study not because I am thrilled at the possibility of society now having oral (non-steroid) contraceptive methods for males, but rather because this study highlights that vitamin A is actually required for male fertility. Even minor interference with so-called retinoic acid receptor alpha (RAR-a) causes fertility problems and fully blocking that receptor invariably renders all subjects fully infertile. That receptor is activated by all-trans-retinoic acid - i.e. the "active" form of vitamin A synthesized from retinol and its various dietary/supplement precursors such as retinyl palmitate and retinyl acetate. The study managed to achieve full infertility in 99% of the study subjects (animals) by administering an RAR-a antagonist. The study also claims the effects were reversible after a few months of not using the RAR-a antagonist, but I have serious doubts about that claim. Why? Well, one reason is that vitamin A deficiency has been shown in many animal studies to often cause irreversible sterility if maintained for a sufficiently long period of time. The study itself readily acknowledges that fact while also explicitly stating that the RAR-a antagonist was initially abandoned by the pharma company that discovered it, since it was confirmed it acted as a "testicular toxin". Also, considering vitamin A is a required factor for steroidogenesis, and not just spermatogenesis, interfering with the RAR-a receptor may lead to hypogonadism severe enough to cause testicular atrophy, which is rarely reversible. Finally, since vitamin A and RAR-a activation are required for proper vision, this study may end up unleashing on the world a "solution" that causes terrible health problems in males on a global scale. Hhhm, if I was an evil person, dedicated to the cause of depopulation, I would probably think this drug is a "gift" from the gods. I wonder who funded those studies...Yes, that right, CONRAD - funded by Bill Gates and many other "elites" with an openly stated depopulation agenda. @Drareg

So, all in all, this study below should serve as a serious warning to the crowd out there arguing that supplementing with ANY amount of vitamin A is "toxic" and that apparently many health problems can be "cured" by simply restricting vitamin A in take to the point of deficiency.

Low Toxin Diet - Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity

I recently stumbled across the blog of Grant Genereux, an engineer from Canada, wherein he recounts his story of how he cured himself of severe eczema as well as chronic fatigue and brain fog with an elimination diet. But that's just the beginning of it, because he has also done what I consider...

raypeatforum.com

Considering fertility is one of the primary biomarkers of good systemic health in males (and in females too), I fail to see how degrading it by reducing the activation of RAR-a (through vitamin A intake restriction) is in any way healthy. Perhaps the multitude of studies demonstrating virtually guaranteed cancer (usually hematological) development in organisms deficient in vitamin A would be even more convincing...if the vitamin A detractors can even be bothered reading them.

Oral Administration of a Retinoic Acid Receptor Antagonist Reversibly Inhibits Spermatogenesis in Mice
Could a birth control pill for men be on the horizon? Retinoic acid receptor antagonist interferes with sperm production

"...Scientists have known for almost 100 years that depriving an animal of dietary vitamin A causes male sterility. While investigating targeted loss of function of the gene encoding one of the RARs, RARalpha, which results in male infertility, senior author Debra J. Wolgemuth, Ph.D., ran across a paper by Bristol-Myers Squibb on a compound that was being tested for the treatment of skin and inflammatory diseases. The compound seemed to cause changes in the testis similar to the mutation that she and Dr. Chung were studying in Dr. Wolgemuth's lab. (Dr. Wolgemuth is professor of genetics and development and of obstetrics and gynecology; and Dr. Chung is an associate research scientist, both at Columbia University Medical Center). Bristol-Myers dropped its interest when it found that the compound also was ¬- in the company's words -- "a testicular toxin." The paper did not elaborate on how the drug caused infertility, so Dr. Wolgemuth and her team tested the drug in mice to find out; they noted that the changes it caused were similar to what one sees with vitamin A-deficiency and loss of function of RARalpha. "We were intrigued," said Dr. Wolgemuth. "One company's toxin may be another person's contraceptive." To investigate whether the compound prevented conception at even lower levels than those cited in the company's study, Dr. Wolgemuth and her team placed the treated male mice with females and found that reversible male sterility occurred with doses as low as 1.0mg/kg of body weight for a 4-week dosing period. One advantage of using a non-steroidal approach, the researchers say, is avoiding the side effects commonly associated with steroidal hormone-based methods."

"...This study was supported in part by grants initially from CONRAD and subsequently from the NIH, NICHD."

Interestingly, I impregnated my wife after 2 weeks of getting in beef liver (6 oz each week.) It was at the very beginning of my "consistent" pro metabolic lifestyle.

 

[Ritchie]

I think that vitamin A deficiency is actually pretty hard to achieve. IIRC it took Grant Generoux almost 3-4 years to achieve near-deficient levels of serum vitamin A while eating almost no vitamin A at all.

100%. I think the main point is that it's almost impossible to become deficient even from the most average of typical diets, yet it's very easy to consume too much and those levels to become toxic. Yes of course if you are taking a drug that blocks it completely that won’t be good, but unless you are stupid enough to do that why be concerned? There are just so many food sources high in vitamin A that most people consume daily that the bigger concern is overdoing it and the associated issues with that.. further, unless your metabolism is completely tanked you will be converting beta carotene into vitamin A very readily as well, and from what I understand your body will only convert what it needs when it comes to beta carotene and vitamin A - there is a self regulating process going on of sorts.

 

[Adf]

Still having dairy, I'm tapering off as im trying to go as slow as possible removing vitamin A after 4yrs Peating. Supplement wise I decided most of them just add more burden to the liver in the LONG TERM at least, the same with coffee. Currently just having mag oil, zinc an selenium.


Better erections, weight loss (only 3lb tho I was leanish anyway), stronger in workouts, harder arms and better muscle tone, balls hang lower and feel fuller :), way less evening fatigue, improved cognition...not done blood work but, sounds like androgens no?

Morning temps are higher (mid 97s out of bed) Peating I was high 96s to low 97s most of the time despite eating "pro metabolic" I never had good morning temps outside of peak summer here in England. Then high 97s to mid 98s the rest of the day and my pulse is 77-80 which was the same as Peating despite having way less coffee.

I've been tanking vit A for about 5 weeks so VERY early in my experiment, I just don't think I was burdening my liver with much else and having like 5-6x less vit A was a massive relief on my system tho obv stopping a few supps and less coffee might also of played a role.

Your improvements could possibly be attributed solely to stopping your coffee/caffeine consumption. Caffeine restricts blood vessels, restricting blood flow to muscles. It can also stay in your system quite a while. Even if you don't feel energized by caffeine, and can fall asleep just fine, it can affect your quality of sleep negatively, without you even realising it.

Stimulants also make the balls hang higher/not hang at all.

Any time I stop caffeine, I see all the same changes you mentioned. Not to mention caffeine seems to blunt my emotions and even vision. Eg. without caffeine, colours seem more vibrant to me.

 

[aniciete]

Your improvements could possibly be attributed solely to stopping your coffee/caffeine consumption. Caffeine restricts blood vessels, restricting blood flow to muscles. It can also stay in your system quite a while. Even if you don't feel energized by caffeine, and can fall asleep just fine, it can affect your quality of sleep negatively, without you even realising it.

Stimulants also make the balls hang higher/not hang at all.

Any time I stop caffeine, I see all the same changes you mentioned. Not to mention caffeine seems to blunt my emotions and even vision. Eg. without caffeine, colours seem more vibrant to me.

How long did it take you to see the benefits? I know many say coffee mimics thyroid and makes them warmer, but I can’t say I’ve experienced that. Whenever I drink it my hands get ice cold.

 

[Adf]

How long did it take you to see the benefits? I know many say coffee mimics thyroid and makes them warmer, but I can’t say I’ve experienced that. Whenever I drink it my hands get ice cold.

Typically within a few days those things are noticed, but come with a drawback as more often than not there's more negative side effects in those first few days from caffeine dependence and withdrawal symptoms. It typically takes a couple weeks for everything to normalize.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Your improvements could possibly be attributed solely to stopping your coffee/caffeine consumption. Caffeine restricts blood vessels, restricting blood flow to muscles. It can also stay in your system quite a while. Even if you don't feel energized by caffeine, and can fall asleep just fine, it can affect your quality of sleep negatively, without you even realising it.

Stimulants also make the balls hang higher/not hang at all.

Any time I stop caffeine, I see all the same changes you mentioned. Not to mention caffeine seems to blunt my emotions and even vision. Eg. without caffeine, colours seem more vibrant to me.

Oh i'm still having coffee, just half as much so like 300mg+ to more like 150mg as it was weak coffee anyway. I wish I didn't make so many little changes at once but I did it all on a whim and honestly didn't expect much from lowering vit A intake. I'm not even craving coffee in the AM now either as my morning temps are better than Peating.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Better erections, weight loss (only 3lb tho I was leanish anyway), stronger in workouts, harder arms and better muscle tone, balls hang lower and feel fuller :), way less evening fatigue, improved cognition...not done blood work but, sounds like androgens no?

That’s great.
My sexual health shows no signs of recovery.
Also dealing with seb derm, itchy scalp, hairloss, dry skin, gyno, poor vision. My health has took a turn for the worse in the last couple of years. A lot of possible causes, and high Vitamin A is one of them.
I might try the approach.

Perhaps high Vit. A requires high Vit. D.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

That’s great.
My sexual health shows no signs of recovery.
Also dealing with seb derm, itchy scalp, hairloss, dry skin, gyno, poor vision. My health has took a turn for the worse in the last couple of years. A lot of possible causes, and high Vitamin A is one of them.
I might try the approach.

Perhaps high Vit. A requires high Vit. D.

I lost my morning wood Peating aswell, will be interesting to see when that returns. Do you not know your average vit A intake based on cronometer?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I lost my morning wood Peating aswell, will be interesting to see when that returns. Do you not know your average vit A intake based on cronometer?

Daily average for last year:

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Daily average for last year:
View attachment 36549

Only slightly more than I was then, would be interesting if you started gradually reducing it to see what happens.

 

[GorillaHead]

Maybe someone can shed some light on this but why do we need retinol everyday if our body stores it in the liver? So say like you supplemented 10k iu a day for a week if you ate a descent balanced diet then you wouldnt need to supplement anymore or get extra A ? Or does the body use retinol quickly and heavily?