Valerian Experiences?

[Such_Saturation]

I was listening to KMUD: 4-15-16 Mitochondria, GABA, Herbs, And More and I realized Ray Peat thinks highly of Valerian as a supplement, even though it wasn't really apparent just how much experience he has with it. I did get a couple hits on the search engine, but if you have tried this herb, feel free to give your opinion in here. Thanks!

 

[Frankdee20]

I was listening to KMUD: 4-15-16 Mitochondria, GABA, Herbs, And More and I realized Ray Peat thinks highly of Valerian as a supplement, even though it wasn't really apparent just how much experience he has with it. I did get a couple hits on the search engine, but if you have tried this herb, feel free to give your opinion in here. Thanks!

Ah yes, hello SS. Correct, I recall one Ray interview, mentioning Valerian. They did ask him if he could explain why some do get paradoxical reactions from it, eliciting insomnia. He said he doesn’t know. That’s not typical though. I’ve used this herb many times, as part of a Complex, isolated standardized, non standardized, and as a tea, whole root, finely ground also. I’ve experienced the insomnia from it on less occasions than the ones you want it for. It works by enhancing the Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase enzyme, indirectly boosting GABA synthesis. Some say it also directly agonizes the GABA A receptor itself. Area 1255 also links it’s indirect sleep inducing effects on partial agonism of the mysterious 5ht5 receptor. Overall, it’s a good herb, I thought the actual tea brewed from the whole root (little twigs) was the most powerful. It stinks like gym socks though, so do the capsules. But tastes fine with real honey. I use it infrequently as they’re were concerns of heavy use causing receptor downregulation via agonism. I can’t say how strong that evidence is, but I’ve never had a problem. When I was super anxious, I’d take it during the day as an anxiolytic. Worked great for that too, but somnolence can occur. Overall, I like the traditional medicinals product tea Complex, featuring Valerian, Passionflower, Chammomile. Some also included Lemon Balm for the GABA tramsaminase inhibition Effect. Let me know man.

 

[Frankdee20]

Oh yeah, for what’s it worth, forgot a little tidbit, because that was a great op ed on Valerian. The anticonvulsant drug valproic acid/sodium valproate-aka-Depakote, is derived from Valerian’s active constituent, valearic acid. Depakote is believed to work in treating bipolar disorder, and epilepsy by enhancing GABA function via Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase enzymatic activity. Or blocking GABA degrading enzymes. Nuff said.

 

[Constatine]

Makes me feel really drunk and nice.

 

[aquaman]

I get insomnia from it! Definitely excitatory for me.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Oh yeah, for what’s it worth, forgot a little tidbit, because that was a great op ed on Valerian. The anticonvulsant drug valproic acid/sodium valproate-aka-Depakote, is derived from Valerian’s active constituent, valearic acid. Depakote is believed to work in treating bipolar disorder, and epilepsy by enhancing GABA function via Glutamic Acid Decarboxylase enzymatic activity. Or blocking GABA degrading enzymes. Nuff said.

Good info man, it's quite popular where I live so I might try to find the pure root. It seems that the natural valerian also has hesperidin like oranges do.

 

[Frankdee20]

Makes me feel really drunk and nice.

Yeah, if you pair it with Kava, wow !

 

[Constatine]

Yeah, if you pair it with Kava, wow !

Never tried Kava. But I can imagine based on its rep.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I get insomnia from it! Definitely excitatory for me.

This is odd. And it seems in cats to be the normal reaction. Perhaps it could be a Peatish stimulant?

Makes me feel really drunk and nice.

How would it compare to phenibut?

 

[Constatine]

This is odd. And it seems in cats to be the normal reaction. Perhaps it could be a Peatish stimulant?


How would it compare to phenibut?

Pretty similar. I haven't taken either in a while so I can't really accurately compare though.

 

[Frankdee20]

This is odd. And it seems in cats to be the normal reaction. Perhaps it could be a Peatish stimulant?


How would it compare to phenibut?

I haven’t taken Phenibut, that agonizes GABA-B receptors though, and it’s associated with discontinuation syndromes.

The insomnia one gets from Valerian is uniquely non stimulant like, simply toss and turn. I’ve experienced it, but the effect also reverted back to sedating/hypnotic after time. Can’t say for sure why this occurs. There’s virtually nothing online either as to why, that I believe is conclusively strong at least. Even if I were to speculate why I think it happened to me, and what I think changed it back to sedative, is just speculation. I take time off from it, overall, it’s effectiveness online is rated so so. That’s because it can work great, then not work. Is that tolerance? I don’t know. Overall, give it a shot. Kava is good if you get the real deal, and it ironically upregulates GABA - A over time. Valerian, and Kava are bar none, the strongest herbal hypnotics. Chamomile is weak, lemon balm is nice, but no Valerian, Passionflower also hits GABA via mild MAO-I.

 

[Stramonium]

Crazy **** dreams

 

[DavidGardner]

Crazy **** dreams

Ditto. I had a dream so vivid I thought I was awake and having hallucinations.

This is odd. And it seems in cats to be the normal reaction. Perhaps it could be a Peatish stimulant?


How would it compare to phenibut?

I don't find it at all stimulating except for the dreams. It makes meal feel heavy. I don't like it. Phenibut to me is a daytime thing, the perfect balance of relaxed energy. That said, I haven't taken it in several months, for fear of withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ditto. I had a dream so vivid I thought I was awake and having hallucinations.



I don't find it at all stimulating except for the dreams. It makes meal feel heavy. I don't like it. Phenibut to me is a daytime thing, the perfect balance of relaxed energy. That said, I haven't taken it in several months, for fear of withdrawal symptoms.

That's interesting. Perhaps we should put together a Peatish lucid dreaming stack?

 

[aquaman]

The insomnia one gets from Valerian is uniquely non stimulant like, simply toss and turn.

That’s a good way of describing it.

It was a few months ago but I remember it gave me a weird feeling in my temples/forehead. Something like a build up of pressure.

 

[mipp]

It never really improved my sleep or insomnia. Tablets I took years ago had some weak sedative effect initially. Later when I increased the dose they would give me temporary tinnitus and a 'hangover' the following morning, difficulty waking up, drowsiness. A few months ago I bought valerian tincture/drops but it didn't do anything for my anxiety or sleep. Then again I don't notice much effect from phenibut either.

 

[Wilfrid]

One of the key mechanism of action of valerian components is acting as an agonist to adenosine receptors. Adenosine can decrease insulin and stimulate glucagon, and as a consequence stimulate FFA release as well as cortisol secretion.
Making sure to have a steady glucose level as well as taking low dose of niacinamide (~50-100 mg ) with the valerian should prevent the typical stress reaction that some people have experimented when taking the herb. Taking a small amount of T4 ( 3 to 5 hours before going to sleep ) also help as well to prevent such side-effects from valerian ( ie insomnia ).

 

[Frankdee20]

One of the key mechanism of action of valerian components is acting as an agonist to adenosine receptors. Adenosine can decrease insulin and stimulate glucagon, and as a consequence stimulate FFA release as well as cortisol secretion.
Making sure to have a steady glucose level as well as taking low dose of niacinamide (~50-100 mg ) with the valerian should avoid the typical stress reaction that some people have experimented when taking the herb. Taking a small amount of T4 ( 3 to 5 hours before going to sleep ) also help as well to prevent such side-effects from valerian ( ie insomnia ).

Makes sense, it left me feeling hungry on those nights.

 

[Wilfrid]

It never really improved my sleep or insomnia. Tablets I took years ago had some weak sedative effect initially. Later when I increased the dose they would give me temporary tinnitus and a 'hangover' the following morning, difficulty waking up, drowsiness. A few months ago I bought valerian tincture/drops but it didn't do anything for my anxiety or sleep. Then again I don't notice much effect from phenibut either.

The side-effects you were experimented are likely due to the interactions between adenosine receptors ( mainly the activation of the A1 by the herb ) with dopamine. As you have probably taken too much of a dose.
Reduction of dopamine activity results from minimization of the noradrenaline excitatory influence and as a consequence parasympathetic activity is increased, hence the drowsiness.
As a quick fix, upon waking: low dose L-thyrosine ( 50 mg ) with matinal sunlight exposure ( if possible ), low dose T3, low dose B6, a well balanced ( moderate to high protein intake ) breakfast ect...are usually the common things useful to quickly improve this situation within few hours.

 

[Drareg]

It’s a HDAC inhibitor also.