Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse

[LUH 3417]

Making your own stuff up again. Peat:

I think this is taking Peat out of context even though you are directly quoting him. From what I understand he is trying to find the least problematic foods given we live in toxic and problematic environments. I think every food can be problematic in its own way and this is the problem with living as imperfect bodies in an imperfect world. There is a sort of esoterism to the necessity of using and assimilating other living substances for energy. I eat bread and pancakes because I digest them fine for now. I wonder if Peat had to choose between bread and starving what he’d do. My guess is he’d opt for bread.

 

[TeaRex14]

I've done cited proof in my past comment that Peat doesn't recommend a specific diet. Probably why postman quit replying, he realized how ridiculous he was looking. If you're still unable to accept the truth, then your IQ must be on par with a chimpanzee or something.

 

[postman]

I've done cited proof in my past comment that Peat doesn't recommend a specific diet. Probably why postman quit replying, he realized how ridiculous he was looking. If you're still unable to accept the truth, then your IQ must be on par with a chimpanzee or something.

You really want to start again? I gave you the last word but it obviously wasn't good enough for a troglodyte like you.

 

[TeaRex14]

You really want to start again? I gave you the last word but it obviously wasn't good enough for a troglodyte like you.

Apparently you didn't listen to the link I gave you, clearly proving everything you said to be false. At this point you're just making stuff up.

 

[mostlylurking]

This forum has degenerated into gibberish. This is so sad. I'll just go read more of Peat's articles and stop wasting my time here.

 

[Peater Piper]

He has never said "no starch." In fact he has actually said he thinks a person should eat as much sugar and starch as possible.

I disagree with this. Peat seems open to starch being a decent food source under some circumstances, but he's made it clear on multiple occasions that high quality fruit is superior. So no, he hasn't explicitly said "no starch," but he has said there's better options, so it's not a stretch to say the ideal Peat diet wouldn't include starch.

 

[Ritchie]

All this talk about what Peat says and what he doesn't. Why not just accept that he is absolutely WRONG about many things he says. It isn't all about context all the time, why can't people just accept that the guy is wrong about a bunch of things. I'm sure his intentions are good but in many cases he has simply misinterpreted the "science" he has had available to him, and/or misinterpreted anecdotal evidence, or thrown his pre conceptions/perceptions onto the reality. He isn't perfect, he's not a guru, nutrition and health is complicated, he plays his part like a piece in a puzzle but that's all he is. A piece to add to the rest of it. And this is extremely clear for anyone who has followed his advice and experimented with putting it into practice for any extended period of time.
Further, it's very clear for anyone with a background in science how Peat has misinterpreted a lot of data and studies to fit his narrative and perspective, hence making his positions seems more credible. Not saying he's done this on purpose, however his allure is that he speaks with such conviction in his understanding when in reality a lot of the science he bases his understandings on is very rudimentary or vastly inadequate to draw conclusions from. Hence when put into practice his advice very rarely works out the way he says it should.

 

[TeaRex14]

All this talk about what Peat says and what he doesn't. Why not just accept that he is absolutely WRONG about many things he says. It isn't all about context all the time, why can't people just accept that the guy is wrong about a bunch of things. I'm sure his intentions are good but in many cases he has simply misinterpreted the "science" he has had available to him, and/or misinterpreted anecdotal evidence, or thrown his pre conceptions/perceptions onto the reality. He isn't perfect, he's not a guru, nutrition and health is complicated, he plays his part like a piece in a puzzle but that's all he is. A piece to add to the rest of it. And this is extremely clear for anyone who has followed his advice and experimented with putting it into practice for any extended period of time.

Disagreeing with Peat's science is a reasonable stance to take. There's plenty of people (majority even?) who believe PUFA is good, calcium is bad, sugar is bad, carbs is bad, etc. If that's what someone chooses to follow I wish them the best of luck. However blaming Peat for some bizarre dietary practices is wrong.

 

[MarcelZD]

Disagreeing with Peat's science is a reasonable stance to take. There's plenty of people (majority even?) who believe PUFA is good, calcium is bad, sugar is bad, carbs is bad, etc. If that's what someone chooses to follow I wish them the best of luck. However blaming Peat for some bizarre dietary practices is wrong.

I would bet that Ray Peat wouldn't consider the standard protocol of dairy, fruit, liver etc 'bizarre'. He eats like that, as does Roddy.

When people say that they failed on the Peat diet they're referring to that kind of approach. You might have your own interpretations.

 

[Kartoffel]

All this talk about what Peat says and what he doesn't. Why not just accept that he is absolutely WRONG about many things he says. It isn't all about context all the time, why can't people just accept that the guy is wrong about a bunch of things. I'm sure his intentions are good but in many cases he has simply misinterpreted the "science" he has had available to him, and/or misinterpreted anecdotal evidence, or thrown his pre conceptions/perceptions onto the reality. He isn't perfect, he's not a guru, nutrition and health is complicated, he plays his part like a piece in a puzzle but that's all he is. A piece to add to the rest of it. And this is extremely clear for anyone who has followed his advice and experimented with putting it into practice for any extended period of time.
Further, it's very clear for anyone with a background in science how Peat has misinterpreted a lot of data and studies to fit his narrative and perspective, hence making his positions seems more credible. Not saying he's done this on purpose, however his allure is that he speaks with such conviction in his understanding when in reality a lot of the science he bases his understandings on is very rudimentary or vastly inadequate to draw conclusions from. Hence when put into practice his advice very rarely works out the way he says it should.

Enlighten us with your wisdom coming from a background in science instead of making vague allusions. What are the many things he is wrong about? What data has he misinterpreted?

 

[skittles]

Jeez louise... Perceive, think, act.

Strict Peat didn't work well for me in the past, so I played around with stuff until I could apply some of his principles within a diet that did work. Mainly by eating starch and not being too strict with small details. Dairy, has never really made any noticeable improvements in my life, so I don't have loads of it. A few years later, eating more sugar seems to work better for me than it has in the past, but I still feel fine eating starch.

Heck, I don't even avoid PUFA nearly as much as some people do around here. If I'm craving peanut butter or salmon, I'll have some. Sometimes I'll even... go out to eat occasionally without worrying about what's in my meal *gasp!*

I was in a terrible state of health before. But I learned some stuff, I tried some stuff, I tweaked some stuff - some stuff helped, some stuff made things worse, some stuff didn't do anything at all. And now I'm very conscious of what makes me feel good or bad, but I've settled on something that doesn't really require much thought or effort. It works for me. It's not a blaspheme against the Holy Peat Diet. Eating should be simple. And it can be if you let it.

Throwing Ray Peat quotes at one another in some kind of a battle over who understands him better is ridiculous. Just perceive, think, act.

 

[CLASH]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

 

[Andman]

Enlighten us with your wisdom coming from a background in science instead of making vague allusions. What are the many things he is wrong about? What data has he misinterpreted?

Id also like to read some examples

@CLASH hahah great stuff

 

[EtienneAmelie]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

 

[mirc12354]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

thank you for best laugh in a while!

 

[Ania]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

Chapeau bas! You made my day.

 

[Goobz]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

Bahaha that was amazing.

I should really start that estradiol thread to discuss ideas there, but I'm under the pump a bit, and can't be bothered attempting to get all the evidence together just yet. Maybe in a week or two...

And just to clarify - I think RP is a complete and utter genius.

(But even a genius is going to turn out to be wrong a decent chunk of the time)

 

[MatheusPN]

I’d love to know what Peat is wrong about? Perhaps particular recommendations may not work for everyone, but I would say his general premise is pretty spot on...

It takes time and experimentation to properly implement the premise he provides into your own context. Peat’s genius is in his principles not his specific recommendations.

For example:
-Peat says coconut oil is good, saturated fat is good, PUFA is bad
-ray peat forum member john doe reads this and then decides to eat 30% of his calories as coconut oil
-john doe develops intestinal issues
-john doe now believes saturated fat is bad despite the fact that coconut oil is known to irritate the intestine in large quantities in certain people
-john doe write off saturated fat. I mean why wouldnt he, it causes bacterial translocation, endotoxemia, obesity, and heart disease despite that fact that it has been a traditional food in cultures without obesity and other diseases for many generations....
-john doe then goes to a ultra low fat, high carb diet; he feels better for a week. He proceeds to give advice to others to lower thier fat, you know cuz the randle cycle bro
-2 weeks later he has bloating, brain fog, loss of libido and needs to eat constantly to avoid adrenaline rushes. Liver must be shot—> 1000mg of caffiene 6x per day
-john doe comes back to forum, asks for help. People say that he needs to go lower fat to clear his PUFA so his liver can store glycogen better.
-john doe goes lower fat, feels worse. Only 4 more years buddy, your PUFA will be gone: Enter Valhalla
-john doe invests in idealabs supplements
-john doe feels better now, hes taking lisuride, metergoline, thyroid, pansterone, oxidal, mitolipin, tocovit, kuinone. All are applied to his scrotum, except for metergoline that goes to his sphincter. He decided to take them all at once, he doesnt need to test each one out, the plain packaging indicates extreme safety of course
-john doe developes side effects, he now believes all supplements are bad and stops using them.... excipients (cue smeagle voice)
-john doe then reads that vitamin A is a poison so he goes on a low vit A diet to clear his stores. Franco aka grant genereux, aka edward j. Edmonds aka gbolduev aka tyw PM’s the secret anti- vit a diet that also happens to avoid alot of other problematic food components, its the vit a tho, grant said so... enter: meat and rice diet
-he also reads travis post on veganism and decides that meat is bad because it causes cancer because of its amino acids. Goddam polyamines, all growth, no diferentiation
-john doe then reads a westside PUFA post on starch. He goes on a high starch diet. Feels better. Determines that sugar is bad. The stars are aligning now travis, westside PUFA, and grants principles are all making sense, especially because all major civilizations lived on starch, I mean why wouldnt they, its what made humans so smart: wheat the staff of life
-eventually john doe becomes bloated and constipated. He hears peat talk about antibiotics, he decided to use penicillin after much debating about destroying his microbiome
-Uses penicillin, feels better for a day and then gets diarrhea. Microbiome is now...... Trumps hairline
-now his guts messed up, he cant eat anything, his anxiety is through the roof, and cant sleep. Good thing he can still post on the forum, phew...
-answer: fruitarian diet, kidney detox, peeing cloudy
-after a while his teeth erode and hes colder than travis after a disparaging joke about vegans
-so now, sugars, meat, iron, pufa, vit a, saturated fat, grains, dairy, fruit, masturbation, caretenoids, ejaculation, blue light, all electronics, exercise, supplements, sleeping facing south, oxygen, and living in society are all “stress”, nitric oxide, serotonin, estrogen oh my (apparently estrogen is beneficial now)
-john doe concludes Ray Peat is an A** hole, haidut is a used car salesman and the forum is filled with morons except for CLASH, his sarcastic humor and obvious bias towards the use of saturated fats even though they cause bacteria to be spread to your organs was very helpful in john does recovery
-john doe goes on a carnivore diet in the domican republic after creating a patreon account and youtube series called Locks like a mare

THE END


EDIT: added more sarcastic humor

That was admirable, a summary of what happens to many here! Beautiful consciousness and history
A guide for those who chose to venture into the trail of monsters, if they had gone to the right side...

 

[MarcelZD]

Enlighten us with your wisdom coming from a background in science instead of making vague allusions. What are the many things he is wrong about? What data has he misinterpreted?

1. Peat's understanding of the body is based on non-accepted cell biology (Ling)
2. There is evidence that a higher metabolism isn't always desirable, leading to higher all cause mortality
3. Many of his recommendations contradict his own guidelines (meat high in tryptophan, estrogen)
4. His arguments against starch are based on very old and obscure studies (the granule issue)
5. The general tendency to overvalue rat studies etc.

I think the most problematic thing by far might be 1. . Peat's understanding of cell biology is so far outside of the mainstream it's almost fringe science.

 

[Ritchie]

Enlighten us with your wisdom coming from a background in science instead of making vague allusions. What are the many things he is wrong about? What data has he misinterpreted?

Start with reading my first post in this thread to give you more of a clear idea to what i'm referring to.. if you have any further questions or desire to discuss anything specific past that let me know..

Just for a bit more clarity , i'm talking partly about his particular methodology.. he often attempts to interpret the mechanisms and mechanistic modes of action within human physiology from in-vitro studies, animal studies (mainly rats), some anecdotal feed back and some case studies (which are all very low tier on the evidence hierarchy), and then make broad conclusions and generalisations from these mechanistic theories into human nutrition. This is a very flawed way of utilising the science. Mechanistic interpretations of data are great for motivating more scientific exploration of certain things, and it could be said that all this experimenting with certain aspects of a ray peat inspired diet (and supplementation for that matter) are in a sense participating in such exploration. Albeit in an uncontrolled manner so only can be taken as anecdotal evidence at best for the most part.

Peat has made some absolutely ridiculous errors in his interpretation of data and studies (citing studies of uncooked starch in rats as a reason to avoid starch in general - 1. cooking starch is an obvious thing that most people eating starch do, 2. we have vastly different digestive systems than rats. And then seemingly ignores all subsequent studies and data, after the old initial rat study, on starch that points to it being well utilised and digested by humans). He has made similar conclusions about legumes, examining issues with them in an uncooked state ignoring the fact that noone eats them raw, and unwilling to even look at high level evidence that suggests very good nutritional value for humans. He recently started recommending mushrooms after considering that cooking them alters their "toxicity" to being unproblematic. I mean this is such a basic thing that took him decades to work out. Has he considered how cooking starch or cooking legumes solves many of his so claimed problems with them? It seems such an obvious consideration, but one still wonders.

Further, Peat very rarely if ever looks at, considers or discusses high level research and evidence that goes against his narrative. For example, very well conducted, high level randomised controlled studies and meta analyses on dairy and its negative effects on human health (of which the literature is abundant - Dairy products, calcium, and prostate cancer risk: a systematic review and meta-analysis of cohort studies. - PubMed - NCBI ; Does milk intake promote prostate cancer initiation or progression via effects on insulin-like growth factors (IGFs)? A systematic review and meta-... - PubMed - NCBI ; Dairy intake after prostate cancer diagnosis in relation to disease-specific and total mortality. - PubMed - NCBI ; A milk protein, casein, as a proliferation promoting factor in prostate cancer cells. - PubMed - NCBI ; The impact of cow's milk-mediated mTORC1-signaling in the initiation and progression of prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI, just to name a few) When faced with such evidence, be it old or new, that challenges his beliefs very often he will allude to some conspiracy theory and brush them off without actually delving into the science. Just as a side note, even when examined from Peat's own point of view, dairy is horrible and his constant recommendation of consuming it and making it a dietary staple is very contradictory in his paradigm: High in tryptophan, high in methionine, very high in mammalian estrogen (particularly when milked from pregnant cows which most milk comes from), high in IGF-1. In case that's not enough, there are also the casomorphins and their associated issues and the issues with the pasteurisation and homogenisation of dairy, of which "travis" covered quite considerably and methodically in his thread. And that's not even mentioning that a conservative estimation of some 65% of the worlds population are dairy intolerant and that rate rises to 90% in some areas of the world.

1. Peat's understanding of the body is based on non-accepted cell biology (Ling)
3. Many of his recommendations contradict his own guidelines (meat high in tryptophan, estrogen)
4. His arguments against starch are based on very old and obscure studies (the granule issue)
5. The general tendency to overvalue rat studies etc.

Agreed.
Also just want to say that there are many gems in Peat, like I said i'm not discrediting EVERYTHING, but the idea that he is just right as a blanket and taking the things he says as gospel is problematic for many reasons, some of which are explained above. For example, I think the emphasis he places on providing the body with adequate glucose as a fuel source is a great one, and one that is seemingly very timely considering the anti sugar movement of current. I think his emphasis on the issues associated with refined vegetable oils and consuming high levels of cooked refined PUFAs is a good one as well.