Unpopular Opinion: I Think Some Of Ray's Ideas Are Just Not Helpful And Actually Make Matters Worse

[Atman]

Eating a liquid diet without things like starches seems like the craziest thing ever.

It's ironic because Ray's all pro-thyroid and I'm almost positive some of the things he either practices or alludes to as pro-thyroid are actually harmful.

If you are cold (experiencing low-thyroid issues), why in the hell would you suggest a virtually liquid diet without substantial solid food to balance it?

And no starches? Starches are like the only thing that make the human engine 'go' with ease. They are the most reliable food source for humans (grains, potatoes, corn, etc.). To say: Don't eat these but instead drink a bunch of this (explicitly or implicitly), to me seems crazy and the exact opposite of the thing which you would want to say to a person with low-thyroid.

This issue has been discussed ad nauseam over the years. Use the search function?

Why can't people not just read his articles and listen to his interviews anymore or read what has been written on this topic over the last 10 years?

Why do you have to pollute this forum even further?

"Too much liquids are not good for me.."
"Some starches vs no starches"
"The Peat-diet: is it even a thing?"

What's new?!

 

[damngoodcoffee]

@Atman I don't read the forum much anymore because of what you pointed out..

Anyway, I think it's wonderful that Ray can't give anybody all the answers, it's vital in fact, we have to go through this journey ourselves. Ray has a staggering amount of really important truth in this world of lies and deception, but still, it's good for our freedom that some of his advice doesn't work for us. We can't let a human being be the boss of us in anything.

 

[jzeno]

@Constatine

No need to apologize. I was just clarifying.

He won't even browse a forum exalting his own ideas... Not the most practical man! People often chose to read him in a more abstract way... It's like the bible, you can cite a passage to support the view if you "get it." For example, a Peater might pick out what Peat said about drinking too much water and apply that to the liquid/solid balance in the diet.

@Waynish

This is most arrogant and proud thing I've read on here and I don't know what it is about Peat's work but it's so intellectual, that it attracts personalities and thoughts like this.

You see it all the time on here. For example, that Vitmain A theory thread (link: Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity). This thread started just a few months ago, is the longest running thread and is absolutely has to be one of the biggest exercises of a waste of time I've ever seen and yet it just seems fueled like a never-ending circlek jerk of theories, postulations and gobbli-gook based on one guy with almost no scientific background and a bunch of speculations on observations from patients from 60+ years ago. Vitamin A is actually not a vitamin? Well, maybe--I'm open minded. I'm going to need to see some pretty profound evidence rather than just one guy's theory based on observations of WW2 POWs and how their eye health improved on a diet of beef and rice. Who in their right and reasonable mind would re-visit a crazy idea like that ad-naseum for 200+ pages and going and not get anything out of it? Okay--it's not a vitamin, then stop eating it. Okay, maybe it is a vitamin, then just get it from foods and ignore it as a supplement. Let's move on! And I think it's the nature of Ray's work and the way he presents it, which fosters all of this--"Maybe if I take estrogen, my problems will go away because rats in this study..." instead of Have you thought of just getting a well-balanced diet? Why not shoot for the simplest solution instead of the most convoluted. And this is where some of Peat's suggestions or his practices come in. "Ray mostly eats milk, OJ with the occasional cheese, egg, and oysters? Well then it must be pretty good." Rather then doing the simple thing and eating a diet with well-cooked starch, fresh fruits, fresh fruit juices, fresh vegetable juices and the occasional dairy and animal protein--but starches as a staple (natural bread, potatoes, etc.).

Dr. Peat has some good ideas. He has been pivotal in bringing attention to the deleterious effects of PUFA on the thyroid and the entire body but beyond that, his ideas become much more esoteric and in some ways irrelevant to good health. I think this is due in part to the way he shares his information with just his fans--clients, newsletter subscribers, the people here--and there is no one to challenge him. So maybe he's 'drinking his own kool-aid' from all the positive feedback and it just seems to be taking him deeper and deeper into ideas that are more esoteric and less relevant and there is no one to push back and say, "Are you wrong about this? What about X? How relevant is this to the whole picture?" Look, the guy might, in some minute way, be right about starch but I want you to imagine all of us in the USA ate a Ray Peat-inspired diet--OJ, ice cream, milk, cheese, no starch--and how many think that would work. Not only is it not feasible, but I doubt our country would be anywhere near as great as it is or has been through out history. If you can't take what you're doing and scale it, then I begin to question it's effectiveness and I think that it's the lack of critical push back that leads to more and more ideas that might be sound in theory but how are they practical or effective?

I don't know that to be certain (that his work is having an inverse effect), but I can tell you that is just unreasonably impractical to tell a person to drink many ounces of OJ and milk per day and call that a diet. I doubt it's doing him any good, tbh, just because not only is that logistically only possible in advanced Western countries and only very recently due to economic gains--you can't get grow oranges year-round in the Pacific Northwest where Dr. Peat lives--but it's just not practical or reasonable in a societal sense. You're getting into fruitarian dogmatic zone like I have to live in the tropics to thrive on this diet and we all know that is just plain foolish. My point being, anyone who says they eat a diet of mainly milk (fresh, raw or not) and OJ and some other small things here and there, I question their intelligence and quality of life just because of how impractical that sounds.

Disagree if you like. That's just my opinion. I wanted to share my opinion because obviously there are people on this forum who have by their own account shared issues and setbacks trying to get healthier with some of the things that Peat had either shared via an interview or written down and shared. I gave some of his ideas a try and had a similar experience: impractical and not only not effective but slightly harmful. Had I not switched gears sooner and been more dogmatic may have been more disastrous over time. My point in starting this thread was simply a place for people to share their experiences. "Oh, I tried that and it didn't work. My X got worse" and so on. "I can relate. Now I do this..."

And Waynish, if you had read my original post carefully, you would have seen that I was referring to specifically things which I had either heard Peat testify about himself in an interview or wrote down in one of his articles or in an e-mail correspondence. Using the example of my quoting a Peater is completely irrelevant and that you didn't get that is telling.

 

[jzeno]

This issue has been discussed ad nauseam over the years. Use the search function?

Why can't people not just read his articles and listen to his interviews anymore or read what has been written on this topic over the last 10 years?

Why do you have to pollute this forum even further?

"Too much liquids are not good for me.."
"Some starches vs no starches"
"The Peat-diet: is it even a thing?"

What's new?!

My point being it is ironic that a guy claiming to understand the thyroid or its importance would promote such a ridiculous dietary suggestions. Does anyone not see the irony?

If I were asked to help someone with their thyroid, I would say "You need a ton of starch. Starch should be your staple."

Peat does the exact opposite.

Is this not just insanely ironic and questionable? 2 quarts of milk and OJ per day as a staple and you might kill someone who is low-thyroid.

 

[Kartoffel]

My point being it is ironic that a guy claiming to understand the thyroid or its importance would promote such a ridiculous dietary suggestions. Does anyone not see the irony?

If I were asked to help someone with their thyroid, I would say "You need a ton of starch. Starch should be your staple."

Peat does the exact opposite.

Is this not just insanely ironic and questionable?

Ok, so you think starches are the optimal foods to promote thyroid function. I know plenty of people that would disagree with that statement based on their experiences, and call your recommendations ridiculous. Isn't that insanely ironic? Let me give you a small piece of advice: You're not nearly smart enough to be this arrogant, and question other people's experiences and their intelligence.

"My point being, anyone who says they eat a diet of mainly milk (fresh, raw or not) and OJ and some other small things here and there, I question their intelligence and quality of life just because of how impractical that sounds."​

 

[jzeno]

@Kartoffel

And yet, we're not on a forum named after me discussing the matter... Just sayin'.

 

[postman]

That's factually wrong, I've already linked proof Ray doesn't recommend a detailed diet to another thread on this site. So I'm not even going to start this crap again. You don't like Peat, you shouldn't even be on this forum because you're just trolling. Dairy and fruits are healthy, Ive never had a single problem eating those foods. When someone has an intolerance to a food that doesn't make it unhealthy for everyone else. The problem we have here is idiocy, and a lack of commonsense. Ray's advice is contextual, and when he says something is healthy that doesn't mean 100% of the world's population is going to tolerate that food. But quite frankly I'm at peace knowing the facts, if you think Ray recommends a specific diet clearly you don't know enough about Ray. I eat virtually every food group, and I don't take apart of this Peatarian crap of skim milk, orange juice, and white rice. Or whatever they're eating. I can apply his advice without restricting food groups, if you can't, then that's on you and not him.

You're a cultish troll who can't handle the fact that people disagree with you. I do like Peat, don't put words in my mouth. You're the one that shouldn't be on this forum, instead you should go form a Raypeater church. It sounds like you've never been in contact with Ray, he recommends T3 for pretty much every single problem under the sun. This whole argument is like the communist trope "that wasn't real communism". You literally cannot handle the fact that many people don't do well on dairy, fruits, sugar, high salt, etc.

Whether you're man enough to admit it or not, he does have a general set of recommendations, otherwise people here would be doing keto, eating fatty fish, brown rice, peanut butter, cooled starches, low-salt, low-sugar etc. like on the rest of the internet

 

[Kartoffel]

. It sounds like you've never been in contact with Ray, he recommends T3 for pretty much every single problem under the sun. This whole argument is like the communist trope "that wasn't real communism".

First of all, that's not true. You can read several email replies where he stresses that people should try diet and light first, and only then give thyroid a try. But what I actually wanted to say: The one solution for every single problem-thing is rich coming from one of the poison-A cultists

 

[Atman]

You see it all the time on here. For example, that Vitmain A theory thread (link: Grant Genereux's Theory Of Vitamin A Toxicity). This thread started just a few months ago, is the longest running thread and is absolutely has to be one of the biggest exercises of a waste of time I've ever seen and yet it just seems fueled like a never-ending circlek jerk of theories, postulations and gobbli-gook based on one guy with almost no scientific background and a bunch of speculations on observations from patients from 60+ years ago. Vitamin A is actually not a vitamin? Well, maybe--I'm open minded. I'm going to need to see some pretty profound evidence rather than just one guy's theory based on observations of WW2 POWs and how their eye health improved on a diet of beef and rice. Who in their right and reasonable mind would re-visit a crazy idea like that ad-naseum for 200+ pages and going and not get anything out of it? Okay--it's not a vitamin, then stop eating it. Okay, maybe it is a vitamin, then just get it from foods and ignore it as a supplement. Let's move on!

I think one of the women who makes up about 20% of posts in the mentioned thread even admitted that she "likes to argue for the sake of arguing". So what do you expect?
Some people should just write a diary or talk to their family to satisfy their desire of rambling. Instead it seems like they use internet forums as an outlet for their social needs, even though they are intended to further the specific topic they were originally dedicated to.

 

[Kartoffel]

@Kartoffel

And yet, we're not on a forum named after me discussing the matter... Just sayin'.

Well, if you make a convincing, well supported, argument for your starch theory, then maybe there will be one.

 

[morgan#1]

@Atman I don't read the forum much anymore because of what you pointed out..

Anyway, I think it's wonderful that Ray can't give anybody all the answers, it's vital in fact, we have to go through this journey ourselves. Ray has a staggering amount of really important truth in this world of lies and deception, but still, it's good for our freedom that some of his advice doesn't work for us. We can't let a human being be the boss of us in anything.

I agree wholeheartedly

 

[morgan#1]

With the exception of not reading the forum. I feel there is really valid information here, if you sift through the garbage. There are some brilliant people on this site.

 

[Sugar Bun]

 

[jzeno]

@Sugar Bun

lol

@Kartoffel

lol you must not get it. I don't have a newsletter, several dozens of hours worth of interviews, a PhD, and a website dedicated to publishing my own research papers on human health. Peat does.

People might disagree with me and that's fine, but I'm willing to wager you don't even follow Peat's own advice that he practices for himself. That's how far gone it is. And you might be fairly healthy. Imagine someone suffering from low-thyroid and putting them on all liquids (virtually). That sounds like a death wish.

It isn't ironic if I'm just one guy going off of my experience and I'm just using common sense. Cold liquids (milk, OJ) are cold and will chill the body causing body temperatures to potentially drop even lower. Not to mention OJ and Milk don't contain complex carbs.

It's ironic when you're whole focus is to promote thyroid health and yet your dominant diet suggestions will undoubtedly extinguish whatever body temperature a person has left.

 

[TeaRex14]

You're a cultish troll who can't handle the fact that people disagree with you. I do like Peat, don't put words in my mouth. You're the one that shouldn't be on this forum, instead you should go form a Raypeater church. It sounds like you've never been in contact with Ray, he recommends T3 for pretty much every single problem under the sun. This whole argument is like the communist trope "that wasn't real communism". You literally cannot handle the fact that many people don't do well on dairy, fruits, sugar, high salt, etc.

Whether you're man enough to admit it or not, he does have a general set of recommendations, otherwise people here would be doing keto, eating fatty fish, brown rice, peanut butter, cooled starches, low-salt, low-sugar etc. like on the rest of the internet

Dude, this isn't a matter of agree to disagree. He either said it or he didn't, there's no but ifs. And I think Danny Roddy knows Ray better than you, or me for that matter. 41:00 to 44:00, your welcome. Even Charlie put together a pretty good comprehensive list of foods in the dietary guidelines thread. So there's really no reason to get off path on some unknown orthorexic road to hell. There's very few rules in Peat land. Avoid PUFA, balance phosphate, eat carbs, and that's about it.

you literally cannot handle the fact that many people don't do well on dairy, fruits, sugar, high salt, etc.

Not true, I can't handle people blaming Peat for their eating disorders, they need help.

he recommends T3 for pretty much every single problem under the sun.

Also not true. In fact in recent years he's been against most thyroid supplements, with the exception of cynoplus. He has said some people may need thyroid until they balance the PUFA to SFA ratio, which can take several years. But I've also seen him say that sunlight, high altitude, and good diet is usually all that's needed, especially for young people.

 

[postman]

Dude, this isn't a matter of agree to disagree. He either said it or he didn't, there's no but ifs. And I think Danny Roddy knows Ray better than you, or me for that matter. 41:00 to 44:00, your welcome. Even Charlie put together a pretty good comprehensive list of foods in the dietary guidelines thread. So there's really no reason to get off path on some unknown orthorexic road to hell. There's very few rules in Peat land. Avoid PUFA, balance phosphate, eat carbs, and that's about it.

This argument is so retarded I'm not even going to address it anymore. Everyone who isn't drinking the kool-aide can see how silly it is. Nice projection btw, many raypeaters love to project about orthorexia and reductionism.

Not true, I can't handle people blaming Peat for their eating disorders, they need help.

Where did I blame Ray Peat for anything? I think you need to seek help for your psychosis, you're imagining things.

Also not true. In fact in recent years he's been against most thyroid supplements, with the exception of cynoplus. He has said some people may need thyroid until they balance the PUFA to SFA ratio, which can take several years. But I've also seen him say that sunlight, high altitude, and good diet is usually all that's needed, especially for young people.

That's a blatant lie.

 

[danishispsychic]

Thanks, I think big part is education. And even better - self education b/c docs. trained.. you know!
Before I started to understand physiology etc. everything was hard to interpret and analyse.
Then details start to pay roles, otherwise you just & , looking for ''prescription''. And experimentation became useless and even worse - dangerous. (me)
Probably all here know - three, five, ten times you reed or listen Peat you find new staff.
May I btw, ask what the highest dose of progesterone you take at once and for day?
Hi! I am totally jealous of your superior emoji game. :)
Honestly, here is how I do progesterone- when I am really trying to re set and start all over with it - I mega dose. By that I mean- who knows? I will use a half of dropper FULL a few times a day- and really my gauge is not anything other than " do I feel sleepy " or " do I feel drunk ". The only one is I really go on how my breasts feel. If they start getting smaller and firming up, I am on the right track. When I was scared of Progesterone I would really under dose and that would cause me more estrogen symptoms- just like Dr Peat says. I was afraid for so long to really go for it , but when I did it was a game changer for my mood, temps and bloating. I would almost rather over do it than under do it . After reading and re reading his work, on about the 10th time I finally " got it about Progesterone vs. Estrogen, especially when you tend to be estro dominant like moi. I just go on how I feel , I do not watch dosages in terms of measurements anymore. Additionally, when I overdosed myself of tyro mix at the same time , like did a LOT of that , and had a LOT of protein and a LOT of sugar, like scary amounts. I felt almost normal and really happy. I am 5 ft 8 so maybe I was always dosing too light before.

 

[danishispsychic]

P.S Who knew that if you really super dose on Progesterone and drink SUGARY lemonade with collagen/gelatin in it ..... it will kill your appetite. Not that you want to - but thats what it did for me. I am in love with Progesterone and Sugar and Lemons as a combo. I feel bad because I have not cracked the code on orange juice yet, it really bothers my stomach and give me cold sores, but lemonade? all day long. ( use a glass straw to protect teeth. )

 

[TeaRex14]

This argument is so retarded I'm not even going to address it anymore. Everyone who isn't drinking the kool-aide can see how silly it is. Nice projection btw, many raypeaters love to project about orthorexia and reductionism.


Where did I blame Ray Peat for anything? I think you need to seek help for your psychosis, you're imagining things.


That's a blatant lie.

I just gave you proof son, as far as I'm concerned this conversation is over. You're mad because you were caught red handed in a lie and I called you out on it.

 

[Fractality]

There is no perfect diet for all occasions and phenotypes.