Ultra low fat diet experiment || My 10 day experience

[Hans]

Ultra low fat diet || My 10 day experience » TESTONATION

Why I did this experiment More motivation for exercise and faster recovery from exercise. I have many athletic goals and the main thing that’s holding me (and many athletes) back is recovery. If I can recover faster naturally, I can do more volume and make faster progress. My current workout...

men-elite.com

Recently I re-attempted an ultra low fat diet. I did it in the past with only skim milk and sugar. This time around I had more nutrient dense foods. My original plan was to do it for 30 days, but then side effects prevented me from going past 10 days.
I tracked a few variables and was going to test my total T after 30 days, but since I stopped after 10, that's no longer going to happen.

If you've ever done an ultra low fat diet before, what's been your experience?

 

[Peater]

Really interesting Hans thanks for being a human guinae pig!

 

[shucknchuck]

I’m a bad case for it. I’ve given it a solid go 3 times now. For the record, I’m redhead-white, and studies show Nordic peoples needing more dietary cholesterol due to ineffective liver lipogenesis.

I was Suicidal, emotional, depressive, and suffered quicker fat gain when reintroducing.

I Wish I just emphasized getting my temps up. Danny mentioned recently that, until your temps are adequately high, your body can’t effectively lose excess fat.

There is certainly a sweet spot where too much fat consumption can cause such a caloric excess leading to weight gain.

All in all, for many people, it’s still a decent option. I’d just be aware of the pitfalls, especially if you’re really white.

 

[singuluscorpora]

I'm doing something similar right now - since it's already local fruit season (June-September), I'm trying to shed some stubborn body fat by:
* almost daily Intermittent Fasting (eating between 18:00 and 22:00)
* eat as much fresh fruit as **I want** (in order to feel satisfied)
* the only non-fruit thing is Skyr (also, as much as I want, which is typically around 1000 gr a day)

A typical day:
* 1-2 big **** bowls of 500 gr Skyr, 400-500 gr frozen sour cherries, 6-7 bananas
* any fruit, without any counting, measuring, tracking, etc. (cherries, watermelon at the moment)

I can't report anything quantitative since I don't measure anything apart from my weight (slowly getting down), and looking at the mirror.
I generally feel good, apart from having the craving to eat Terrine (variant of Pate mixed with chopped meat) roughly 1-2 times a week which is probably 60-120 gr fat at most, that is for the whole week.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

I noticed that fat warms me up too. I think 50-70 grams of mostly saturated fat is optimal for me. I do like the nutrient intake though as it’s pretty high. I will probably try a modified version of what your doing with eggs and cheese. 140 protein/350 carbs and 70 fat. I might try canned oysters since I can’t get raw daily. What do you think is a good amount of zinc to get through food?

 

[shucknchuck]

I did try a modified low-fat idea: taking supplemental cholesterol, with high protein and high carb. I did do this until I ran out, and I both felt leaner (for what that's worth), and had very little side effects (mild lower energy/joint pain that would come and go). I'd also suggest supplementing pregnenolone while low fat dieting (which I was inconsistently doing).

 

[youngsinatra]

I noticed that fat warms me up too. I think 50-70 grams of mostly saturated fat is optimal for me. I do like the nutrient intake though as it’s pretty high. I will probably try a modified version of what your doing with eggs and cheese. 140 protein/350 carbs and 70 fat. I might try canned oysters since I can’t get raw daily. What do you think is a good amount of zinc to get through food?

I think this is the sweet spot for fat intake aswell. Fat makes food taste great, digestion smoother, blood sugar more stable and improves gallbladder functioning.

 

[Jennifer]

Ultra low fat diet || My 10 day experience » TESTONATION

Why I did this experiment More motivation for exercise and faster recovery from exercise. I have many athletic goals and the main thing that’s holding me (and many athletes) back is recovery. If I can recover faster naturally, I can do more volume and make faster progress. My current workout...

men-elite.com

Recently I re-attempted an ultra low fat diet. I did it in the past with only skim milk and sugar. This time around I had more nutrient dense foods. My original plan was to do it for 30 days, but then side effects prevented me from going past 10 days.
I tracked a few variables and was going to test my total T after 30 days, but since I stopped after 10, that's no longer going to happen.

If you've ever done an ultra low fat diet before, what's been your experience?

My experience with ultra low-fat wasn’t good long-term. I’ve done many variations of the diet, all with “Peaty” foods—with and without starch (root veggies), with and without fiber, with and without fruit, with and without honey, high-carb/low-protein, high-carb/high-protein, fruit as my protein source, skim milk as my protein source, shellfish and gelatin as my protein sources etc., and I developed severe hypoglycemia (BS as low as 50) to the point of convulsing and passing out daily, insatiable hunger, anxiety, depression, gallbladder attacks and dangerously low cholesterol.

 

[Androsclerosis]

I did this in the past and I can say that the first days were full of hyperactivity, enthusiasm and joy but it didn't last for months. I got to a point where I ate everything as before and didn't notice any euphoria effect, but vision and mental clarity were still present. I realized that for people susceptible to fat oxidation, keeping around 40 grams seems the best idea. Aspirin helped me up fat intake without any negative effects.
The problem with this diet, especially if you avoid milk, starches and fruit is that food becomes disgusting.

 

[Alex Jaramillo]

I think this is the sweet spot for fat intake aswell. Fat makes food taste great, digestion smoother, blood sugar more stable and improves gallbladder functioning.

I agree man. I need a certain amount for vitality.

 

[Hans]

I noticed that fat warms me up too. I think 50-70 grams of mostly saturated fat is optimal for me. I do like the nutrient intake though as it’s pretty high. I will probably try a modified version of what your doing with eggs and cheese. 140 protein/350 carbs and 70 fat. I might try canned oysters since I can’t get raw daily. What do you think is a good amount of zinc to get through food?

I'm almost at those same macros myself, just slightly higher protein. For an inactive person, 11mg zinc daily from animal sources is likely fine. Someone that sweats a lot might need more. There hasn't been a study looking at someone's general health and well-being and correlating it to different levels of zinc, so perhaps there is a sweet spot, but we don't know about it yet (or at least we have to find it ourselves).

 

[ddjd]

I’m a bad case for it. I’ve given it a solid go 3 times now. For the record, I’m redhead-white, and studies show Nordic peoples needing more dietary cholesterol due to ineffective liver lipogenesis.

I was Suicidal, emotional, depressive, and suffered quicker fat gain when reintroducing.

I Wish I just emphasized getting my temps up. Danny mentioned recently that, until your temps are adequately high, your body can’t effectively lose excess fat.

There is certainly a sweet spot where too much fat consumption can cause such a caloric excess leading to weight gain.

All in all, for many people, it’s still a decent option. I’d just be aware of the pitfalls, especially if you’re really white.

great blog post hans!

 

[Highserotonin90]

@shucknchuck Were you taking a pure cholesterol supplement? May I know the brand and what effects have you had on a hormonal level?

 

[Highserotonin90]

With an experiment like this I think that the lack of animal cholesterol would not be a problem because it can also be synthesized from sugar (I think). For the liver/gallbladder when a person takes TMG perhaps from natural sources such as beetroot it should also be sufficient for choline synthesis. I would take vitamin E for membranes if there is no fat....

 

[Hans]

With an experiment like this I think that the lack of animal cholesterol would not be a problem because it can also be synthesized from sugar (I think). For the liver/gallbladder when a person takes TMG perhaps from natural sources such as beetroot it should also be sufficient for choline synthesis. I would take vitamin E for membranes if there is no fat....

I forgot to mention that my stool became close to white on day 10, while is a sign of very low bile. This also made me nervous because some people can mess up their gallbladders on a very low fat diet. Maybe taking TUDCA could bypass that for a while though.

 

[Hans]

great blog post hans!

thanks for reading.

 

[Hans]

I want to add this comment here that I recieved on my blog as others might also have the same questions/concerns:

nice experiment, interesting!
did you heard of the “phenomena” that starches are more of a muscle fuel / filler than fruits / fructose, maybe there’s the hint for your loss of fullness and pump.

Yes I've heard about it but I don't think there is much validity to it. Fructose and glucose are equally as effect at replenishing muscle glycogen. I've been eating honey and bananas before my experiment as well. I just cut out fat (low fat to skim and removing eggs).

what is: “brain safety”?

My brain didn't allow me to do "risky" behaviours, such as backflips on the trampoline. I felt scared and inhibited.

i guess on day one your bloodsugar fluctuations are due to the numerous effects of coffee and aspirin and thiamine on top. i’m not talking about caffeine.

I've been having aspirin, coffee and thiamine before this experiment.

your vision problems after starch seem to be related to non optimal digestion / non optimal insulin response, due to your body is not accustomed to handle so much glucose alone / from this starch source.

My glucose intake was around 300g before this experiment, which I then increased to 500-600g. My insulin sensitivity was great during this experiment, so by body definitely knew what to do with the extra carbs.
Also, I've been having eye irritation from starches for about 5 years now.

10 days i guess is also too short for your metabolism/body for proper enzymatic adaption. i guess the most weight you “lost” is just intracellular water.

The body is constantly in flux with losing and gaining fat. I lost 1 inch off my midsection and I looked visibly leaner (more defined). A lot was water yes, but not all.

why did you add a probiotic on day 8 – another factor thats altering your digestion outcome, thus takes away some of the validity of your experiment.

I was trying to fix the gut issues that this diet caused. Anyway, my stools were back to normal after stopping this diet. The loose stool/diarrhea was definitely a result of low fat.

the gut issues are probably due to some intolerance of your carb sources, not related to high carb per se.

No as I've been eating those carbs before without any such issues. It's definitely the lack of fat.

why did you eat “cold” fruit in winter…?

It's the most convenient and I never felt that cold before even when eating those fruits in the winter. The lack of fat caused severe cold intolerance.

would you be up to try it again – with a more subtle and slow change in your macros?

Absolutely not. Fats have many benefits that I'm not going to miss out on. I'm planning on writing an article on the benefits of uncommon fatty acids. I've already written an article on the benefits of milk fat before.

 

[Mufasa]

@Hans Ray Peat has often mentioned that you need a bit of fat to digest starch properly.

So maybe you got digestive issues from taking starch without fat?
For myself, a starch meal without fat feels just wrong.
I drain my rice and potatoes in animal fat or butter, otherwise, I just don't want to eat it.

However, I can imagine eating meals that just consist of fruits.
Ray Peat also did basically a fruit-only diet in his last year.

Also what makes me curious, is why you prefer eating lots of honey above fruits.
Is this for cost reasons?
The potassium, magnesium and b-vitamins in oranges/orange juice seem like a better fit for mass carb consumption.

 

[cdg]

Ultra low fat diet || My 10 day experience » TESTONATION

Why I did this experiment More motivation for exercise and faster recovery from exercise. I have many athletic goals and the main thing that’s holding me (and many athletes) back is recovery. If I can recover faster naturally, I can do more volume and make faster progress. My current workout...

men-elite.com

Recently I re-attempted an ultra low fat diet. I did it in the past with only skim milk and sugar. This time around I had more nutrient dense foods. My original plan was to do it for 30 days, but then side effects prevented me from going past 10 days.
I tracked a few variables and was going to test my total T after 30 days, but since I stopped after 10, that's no longer going to happen.

If you've ever done an ultra low fat diet before, what's been your experience?

My understanding form Rays work is if you totally remove sat. fats then you mobilize all the stored PUFA instead of removing via the liver???

 

[supercoolguy]

My experience with ultra low-fat wasn’t good long-term. I’ve done many variations of the diet, all with “Peaty” foods—with and without starch (root veggies), with and without fiber, with and without fruit, with and without honey, high-carb/low-protein, high-carb/high-protein, fruit as my protein source, skim milk as my protein source, shellfish and gelatin as my protein sources etc., and I developed severe hypoglycemia (BS as low as 50) to the point of convulsing and passing out daily, insatiable hunger, anxiety, depression, gallbladder attacks and dangerously low cholesterol.

Holy Cows Sounds familiar! Your kaleidoscope of combinations is interesting.

Above all, I can hardly get enough simple carbs. and the worst thing 4me is Meat & Starch after exercise. To keep from almost passing out, I found Consuming juice prior, and reducing the amount of M&S or better yet, Changing the protein to LF Milk w/Gelatin and More Simple Carbs keeps me steady. Then later that night I can handle some starch w/ butter. Ive always had Low Cholesterol I found records of since i was 17.