Theanine May Be Better Than PCPA For Reducing Serotonin

haidut

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The compound pCPA works by inhibiting the synthesis of serotonin in the brain. Ray has written that theanine also reduces serotonin in brain but it was not known how. This study claims that theanine may actually work better than pCPA by BOTH inhibiting serotonin synthesis and also increasing its metabolism/breakdown.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/bb ... 4_816/_pdf

"...Thus, synthesized and accumulated serotonin decreased as compared with that in the control group. The mechanism whereby theanine affected the brain serotonin metabolism, as to whether theanine would directly inhibit the enzyme activity of serotonin synthesis or whether it would enhance the release of brain 5-hydroxyindoles is still unclear. In conclusion, theanine may decrease the serotonin synthesis and also enhance the degradation or release of serotonin, leading to alteration in the concentrations of brain 5-hydroxyindoles."

The rat dosage used was high, but in another study a human equivalent of 400mg had similar effects on lowering serotonin while also increasing dopamine.
Finally, after reading up on the chemistry behind theanine's actions, the consensus seems to be that theanine acts like a glutamate / glutamine antagonist and as such has a strong anti-excitotoxic action in the entire brain. Give the role of glutamine / glutamate in cancer, theanine should be helpful there as well and indeed there are quite a few studies on PubMed showing benefit for a number of different cancers (lung, colon, liver, etc).
 

haidut

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Ben said:
I wonder if it would be useful for anxiety. Then PCPA isn't worth purchasing?

I tried both and there is no denying that pCPA is a more powerful inhibitor of serotonin synthesis. But it does have a lot of side effects for many people and its long term safety is not known. Theanine may be considered a milder version of pCPA with the added benefit of increasing serotonin degradation and also by being a glutamate antagonist calming the brain down in a way pCPA probably cannot.
For serious cases of serotonin dominance I would still use pCPA and may be use 400mg-500mg of theanine daily for maintenance.
 

jyb

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haidut said:
For serious cases of serotonin dominance I would still use pCPA and may be use 400mg-500mg of theanine daily for maintenance.

How does pPCA and theanine compare to pharma drugs (cyproheptadine, lisuride, tianeptine)?
 

haidut

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jyb said:
haidut said:
For serious cases of serotonin dominance I would still use pCPA and may be use 400mg-500mg of theanine daily for maintenance.

How does pPCA and theanine compare to pharma drugs (cyproheptadine, lisuride, tianeptine)?

I'd say pCPA is the most potent serotonin inhibitor of all but it does so very rapidly and some people may have a bad reaction to that. Tianeptine and cyproheptadine are more mild but they have other actions as well so I can't directly compare them to pCPA, which only acts on serotonin. Some of the effects of pCPA reseble ondansetron - clear vision but constipation and maybe headaches.
Theanine seems to be a milder version of tianeptine+pCPA with a good calming effect, so unlike tianeptine you can take it at night an it won't make you sleepless.
 

Peata

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Last August, I experimented with theanine for calming effects, and to see if it could help me with creativity. I had a "drunk" feeling the first time I took it, but my body adjusted to it where it did not have that effect. Eventually, I was taking up to 1,200 mg. daily in divided doses of 200 mg. When I ran out I didn't get more but I'm thinking about using it again. On the higher dose, I noticed some constipation.
 

Peata

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Wanted to update that I started back on Theanine on Tues, Oct. 13.

I have tolerated it very well and like the way it reduces any jitters from caffeine, reduces my chronic cough from this season, and is mildly calming. It seemed to wear off within a few hours, at least for the cough reduction part. Sleep has been great.

Last week though I was experiencing a bad pms depression (only happens rarely and usually in Fall/Winter). That seems to have lifted, though it may not be due to theanine but to hormone change.

At around the 10th day though, I noticed a slightly overall better outlook similar to what I know from cyproheptadine. It isn't as strong an effect, at least not yet, but I do recognize the improved mood, less fear, less isolating myself, etc. It started on theanine when I realized I was still worrying some - but that even if I was, I was also having accompanying thoughts that it would all be OK, would work out, that fears were actually unfounded, etc. I recognized them as the first inkling of how good I felt mentally on cypro. So that seems to be a good sign. As I said, I'm overall much calmer, less worry.

1,800 mg. is the most I have taken in a day. I had to take that to control the cough that day.
 

Peata

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I've never heard of anyone experiencing withdrawal from going off theanine, but I think that is what happened to me. I didn't go off it on purpose -I was staying somewhere and didn't bring enough theanine with me. Sunday and Monday I only had 200 mg. and yesterday for first half of day, I had none. By 1 p.m. I had symptoms very similar to the w/d symptoms I'd get when coming off cypro after tapering from large dose. Light-headed, mild nausea, almost flu-like symptoms but without body aches. Hard to focus on what I was doing because of the discomfort I was feeling. It was actually worse than stopping cypro, which is usually a lot milder w/d. I'd been using large doses of theanine too, so maybe my serotonin was rebounding. I happened to have a small amount of cypro with me and took 1/2 mg. and within the hour my symptoms left. I'm back on theanine since I got home last night.
 

Dean

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What, if anything, can be gathered from theanine having a sedating effect? Comparatively, I found tianeptine to be energizing (but highly constipating). I also didn't find cypro to be nearly as sedating as many/most do (yet highly depressive).
 

haidut

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Dean said:
post 106395 What, if anything, can be gathered from theanine having a sedating effect? Comparatively, I found tianeptine to be energizing (but highly constipating). I also didn't find cypro to be nearly as sedating as many/most do (yet highly depressive).

Theanine is a GABAa agonist, very similar in activity to a benzo. Niacinamide acts in a very similar way. So, its sedative effects are not surprising but it has additional mechanisms like lowering glutamate, which also contributes to calmness/sedation.
 
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Dean

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haidut said:
post 106397
Dean said:
post 106395 What, if anything, can be gathered from theanine having a sedating effect? Comparatively, I found tianeptine to be energizing (but highly constipating). I also didn't find cypro to be nearly as sedating as many/most do (yet highly depressive).

Theanine is a GABAa agonist, very similar in activity to a benzo. Niacinamide acts in a very similar way. So, its sedative effects are not surprising but it has additional mechanisms like lowering glutamate, which also contributes to calmness/sedation.

Hmm, interesting. I've been taking around a gram of niacinamide lately in 3 divided doses and don't really notice much in terms of sedation with that, but even 100 mg of theanine--despite taking it with caffeine--makes me want to crawl off somewhere and take a nap. The theanine is helpful at night though for that reason. I've been able to push my daily caffeine intake up to about 300 mg here in the last few days and with the help of theanine and glycine at night, (and a bit of progest-e right before bed), I'm able to sleep well. In the past, a strong couple cups of coffee in the morning or even a pepsi too late in the afternoon would be enough to have me tossing and turning all night.
 
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Peata

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It's like cypro in that once I got used to the sedating effect, it doesn't really feel sedating to me anymore. Well, unless I take a really big dose. It just kind of works there in the background nowadays.
 

Dean

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Peata said:
post 106399 It's like cypro in that once I got used to the sedating effect, it doesn't really feel sedating to me anymore. Well, unless I take a really big dose. It just kind of works there in the background nowadays.

I did drop 100 mg of theanine under my tongue last night (without caffeine) and got a bit of trippy type effect, without the sedation. Tried it though this morning with caffeine and got very sleepy feeling. Weird.

Have you noticed any impact on your gut health with those doses of theanine you are taking?
 
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Peata

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Dean said:
post 106401
Peata said:
post 106399 It's like cypro in that once I got used to the sedating effect, it doesn't really feel sedating to me anymore. Well, unless I take a really big dose. It just kind of works there in the background nowadays.

I did drop 100 mg of theanine under my tongue last night (without caffeine) and got a bit of trippy type effect, without the sedation. Tried it though this morning with caffeine and got very sleepy feeling. Weird.

Have you noticed any impact on your gut health with those doses of theanine you are taking?

No constipation, but them I'm a hard one to constipate. :lol: But my overall GI system does seem calmer -can tolerate some foods better, and less diarrhea-type goings on. I started noticing some subtle but good effects somewhere around 10 days, but it got interrupted somewhat when I went out of town (and didn't take enough theanine w me). But I'm back on it and plan to continue with it, so I'll see if it helps GI, mood, etc. anymore as I go.
 
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Dean

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How do you take the theanine? mix it in liquid , powder on/under tongue. capsules?
 

Peata

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Dean said:
post 106407 How do you take the theanine? mix it in liquid , powder on/under tongue. capsules?

I use powder and capsules. The powder is OK when I'm around the house. I have put it under my tongue before, but the problem is with the amount I take, that ends up being too much powder to deal with (and it doesn't taste great to me), so I more often mix the powder in a drink of some kind where I don't taste it.

Otherwise, I take capsules.
 
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Dean

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I wonder if someone with a messed up gut, like myself, would get a truer/different response to taking something sublingually than swallowing it down in a capsule or mixed into liquid.
 

Peata

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Dean said:
post 106413 I wonder if someone with a messed up gut, like myself, would get a truer/different response to taking something sublingually than swallowing it down in a capsule or mixed into liquid.

Have you been trying it?
 
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