Testosterone Optimization On RP-inspired Nutrition

[UltraSuperior]

Sorry @GreekDemiGod but 384 ng/dl is still a very weak result. I don't know where you got that range from but that is more like the range for elderly men. A normal reference range is 200-1200. A level of 384 ng/dl is very low for young man. I remember when I lived with my mom for a while when I was 20, I literally only ate PUFAs in the form of dorito chips and chocolate snacks, no exercise and I was fat. I scored 560 ng/dl back then. I would say anything below 700 is basically "Low T" where you would behave like the average man.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@UltraSuperior I'm totally aware my total T is low, I was just pointing out the increase in my free T.

 

[PTP]

@PTP Thanks for writing.
For sure, increasing T is a goal, because I'm hoping it will have a positive mental boost on me (kill my anxiety, make me more decisive).
Do you think Pansterone will do me good?

Pansterone may well be good for you. I didn't notice any effects myself, but I'm still youngish and my hormones are probably fine so that may be why. I also have bad reactions to all forms of dmso which used to be the only option for pansterone so I pretty much have no interest in paying for those things again.

More importantly, you can't wait for testosterone to improve to make you ore decisive. There's a feedback loop there. You have to face your fears and act, even if you feel anxious, the decisiveness will come as a result from repeatedly taking action in the face of your fear. You may not win every time, but you have to see facing your fear as a win in itself. The winner effect* will boost testosterone and decisiveness on it's own. Start looking for small, easy victories daily and work your way up. As the big wins increase it actually becomes kind of dangerous, leading to hubris and unnecessary risk taking, but you seem a long way from the Greek tragic heroes right now. To put it simply, work on improving health and testosterone, but don't wait for your health to improve before going after the things you want to go after, or facing the fears you need to face, because you'll be waiting forever.

Lastly, congratulations on your T increase.

*When an animal, be it fish or human, wins a contest, there is a large release of testosterone and dopamine into their brain. Over time this changes their brains structure and chemical makeup, making them smarter, more confident and able to take on larger challenges than before. Cognitive neuroscientist Ian Robertson explains that “success and failure shapes us more powerfully than genetics and drugs.” - The Winner Effect: How Success Affects Brain Chemistry

 

[ilhanxx]

You have to find a way to increase your sleep quality, without quality sleep, body can not fix the hormones. waking in the middle of sleep is not a good thing, Then changing boring environment or a pretty and considerate girl can help. I hope you will.

 

[Kunstruct]

I have to say with regards to Taurine, I never experienced any libido from it, but never got more than 2 grams supplementation per day I think.
Some on the forums say low Free Testosterone is good, I personally do not know if it is good or not, I felt better with higher free test than with low, but total test was also higher.

 

[Kunstruct]

Also it is interesting to see how Total Testtosterone top range of that lab is 753, seems in recent years the top end has been decreasing at labs.
Used to be higher and slowly lowering each year. 750 is not huge as Testosterone goes.
Same with Free Testosterone, I used to see that 28 as top end, now they switched it to 13.69 top end value.

Considering so many doctors in so many places consider Testosterone a highly bad hormone and with lower and lower top end values at labs, we might soon see Androgen suppression drugs being prescribed to more and more people.
I had an instance where a specialist said 55 Free Test is dangerous and it is not for a man to have high testosterone levels, lower are much better.
Actually there was a person here who was taking Spironolactone because his doctor said had way too high total Testosterone which was 1000 ng/dl, I have to find that thread.

So with lower top end labs values for Testosterone we just might see more and more issues, including drugs to lower Testosterone.

 

[Nicolas Noyola]

Are you actually Greek? Do you live somewhere sunny? If you do, drop the vitamin D and get sunlight instead. If such a climate isn't available to you then vit. D is adequate
Solar-simulated ultraviolet radiation-induced upregulation of the melanocortin-1 receptor, proopiomelanocortin, and alpha-melanocyte-stimulating ho... - PubMed - NCBI
Solar-simulated ultraviolet radiation-induced upregulation of the melanocortin-1 receptor, proopiomelanocortin, and alpha-melanocyte-stimulating hormone in human epidermis in vivo.
Discovery that a melanocortin regulates sexual functions in male and female humans. - PubMed - NCBI
Discovery that a melanocortin regulates sexual functions in male and female humans.
Melanocortin receptors, melanotropic peptides and penile erection. - PubMed - NCBI
Melanocortin receptors, melanotropic peptides and penile erection.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Nicolas Noyola I am not Greek, it's just a nickname. I only have like 7 months / year of sunlight. Right now, it's autumn, will be followed by a long winter, so at least 4 months of almost no sunlight and low temps.

Same with Free Testosterone, I used to see that 28 as top end

28 It's still the top end value, at least at my lab. I'm at the middle of the range (13.39 pg/mL)

@ilhanxx Yes, the sleep is vital. Lately at night, I've had the same pattern happening:

• I only wake up once in the middle of the night
• when it happens, it's very sudden, I go from dreaming / deep sleep to eyes wide awake in a split second
• like a huge boost of adrenaline
• I quickly fall back asleep again fast

More importantly, you can't wait for testosterone to improve to make you ore decisive. There's a feedback loop there. You have to face your fears and act, even if you feel anxious, the decisiveness will come as a result from repeatedly taking action in the face of your fear.

You are so right, this hit me deep. I fall back into this thinking trap, once X happens, I'll be able to do / become Y, and it never happens.

• when I'll lose my anxiety, I'll have more confidence with girls. So I'll wait for my anxiety to go away and put my life on hold
• My anxiety still persists, so I wait until my Testosterone gets higher in hope it will heal my anxiety. I am again stuck and stagnating

I can't keep on living my life in expectation of miracles. I can't wait anymore till everything is perfect, till all conditions are into place. It will never happen like this.

 

[baccheion]

What was DHT and estradiol? SHBG (guessing it's lower, as free testosterone is higher than would be expected given total testosterone)?

Consider 0.3-1 mg melatonin a few hours before bed. If you keep waking up it could be due to blood sugar fluctuations. Salt (RDA amount met) is sometimes needed with magnesium, as magnesium's opposition could lead to a stress reaction. It's identifiable, as magnesium would then lead to energy increase or insomnia.

A higher carb:protein ratio (with sufficient fat) usually leads to increased testosterone. As your calories are already really high, you could try more carbs (4:1 ratio?) and minimal fat (unless you've already done so).

Do you function better with fat or carbs? Any genetic testing to see if there are predispositions? For example, I recently noticed I'm APOE 4/3.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@baccheion I did not measure those this time.
Last year, I measured Estradiol at 21 pg/mL / 77 pmol/L. SHBG in the middle of the range if I remember correctly.

Consider 0.3-1 mg melatonin a few hours before bed. If you keep waking up it could be due to blood sugar fluctuations.

It is likely due to that. Used to take Melatonin a while back, it did help. But I understand it's not 'Peat-friendly'.

Do you function better with fat or carbs?

Well, I did both Keto and Carnivore as a lean guy and never got that crazy energy people were talking about. I never worked well on fat as a primary energy source.
Training-wise, I absolutely do much better with carbs. That should tell me something.
If I drop the fats too low (under 70g), I start having blood sugar issues. Fat helps in a slower release of blood glucose
My current carb: protein ratio is 3:1

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Following...
I have been eating Peaty at a maintenance or surplus for nearly a year and libido has gotten worse and worse. It’s gotten even worse lately where the last 2 months I can’t recall one instance where I felt sexual attraction.
I’m 34 and hypothyroid but all blood work is in range. SHBG is highish and free T is lowish but not terrible either.

Any updates? What is your TSH and temps?
Any measures you implemented that failed you?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Ok, I have been slowly increasing my caloric intake, looking to slowly build up to 4000 cal. intake. What is weird is that my weight won't go up, I'm pretty lean at the moment, with some abs definition, I'd like to re-gain extra muscle.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Steak potatoes and some goat cheese shredded on top with some melon for dessert is a perfect high T meal.

I'll remember this.

-you said your prolactin was in the normal range, but for optimal health, this should be right near the bottom of the range
-Serotonin and estrogen heavily influence prolactin and based on some of your mental symptoms, you may have high serotonin and thus low dopamine (low energy, ruminating thoughts, stuck in your head)
-if any of your stress hormones are high (serotonin, estrogen, cortisol, prolactin), this can block proper thyroid function which leads to low energy and low libido

I just re-read your reply and it makes a lot of sense.
Do you think that peating in itself might have lowered my prolactin closer to an ideal level?

I did not knew Serotonin was a stress hormones. Perhaps it's what's keeping my thyroid frum running at full capacity.
My temps vary between 36.3 and 36.8 celsius throught the day.

How would one go about reversing the serotonin | dopamine balance?
I have read about BCAAs + L-Tyrosine for Serotonin depletion.
Aspirin and Taurine are pro-dopamine,if I remember right.

 

[baccheion]

@baccheion I did not measure those this time.
Last year, I measured Estradiol at 21 pg/mL / 77 pmol/L. SHBG in the middle of the range if I remember correctly.


It is likely due to that. Used to take Melatonin a while back, it did help. But I understand it's not 'Peat-friendly'.


Well, I did both Keto and Carnivore as a lean guy and never got that crazy energy people were talking about. I never worked well on fat as a primary energy source.
Training-wise, I absolutely do much better with carbs. That should tell me something.
If I drop the fats too low (under 70g), I start having blood sugar issues. Fat helps in a slower release of blood glucose
My current carb: protein ratio is 3:1

Gelatin before meals should help with blood sugar issues. Many vitamins and especially minerals have a similar effect. On the other hand, low fat is ~20% of calories.

 

[PTP]

@Nicolas Noyola

You are so right, this hit me deep. I fall back into this thinking trap, once X happens, I'll be able to do / become Y, and it never happens.

• when I'll lose my anxiety, I'll have more confidence with girls. So I'll wait for my anxiety to go away and put my life on hold
• My anxiety still persists, so I wait until my Testosterone gets higher in hope it will heal my anxiety. I am again stuck and stagnating

I can't keep on living my life in expectation of miracles. I can't wait anymore till everything is perfect, till all conditions are into place. It will never happen like this.

I've fallen into that trap before. That's why it was easy to recognise. Maybe therapy would help if you can afford it and find a good therapist. Meditation is another option for facing yourself and holding your thoughts accountable, but it's a bit more dangerous in some ways. On a more surface level, working on micro-avoidance might help you. Micro-avoidance is when you avoid doing small things you want to do. It adds up during the day and at the end you can't go for anything big because you've spent the whole day avoiding small things like saying "bless you" to a stranger when they sneeze, even though you might instinctively want to. Try and notice when you're deciding not to do something you want to do, even if it's small, and if you can, force yourself to do it anyway.

Lastly, on a purely chemical level the ray peat carrot salad might be a help. It may not raise testosterone, but it likely lowers estrogen and serotonin.

 

[Orangeyouglad]

UPDATE:

My free Testosterone. results just came in. Surprise, surprise, a 59% increase from last time. This is puzzling, it seems like RP nutrition and / or the supplements I took had this effect.
Finally some good news.
What's strange is why is my libido still dead considering this increase?

View attachment 15333

Total T levels: 384 ng/dL (range 164 - 753)

Because libido is apparently heavily affected by estrogen levels too. What're the new results of those looking like?

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Orangeyouglad I didn't measure it this time.
I remember measuring Estradiol last year and it came out to 21 pg/mL.
I don't think i have symptoms of high estrogen (man boobs and all that), not even close.

Guys, I now remembered another important detail to share. As you know, lack of erections was a concern of mine.
3 years ago, I started taking a herbal blue pill for stronger erection (not Viagra), someone suggested me taking it in case I get anxious during the sexual act. I was thinking what if this has done long-term damage?

Ingredients in it:
Muira Puama 50mg, Catuaba 50mg, Ginseng 35mg, Guarana 35mg, Tribulus terestris 30mg, Epimedium 30mg, Polygonum multiflorum 20mg

 

[ddjd]

I have similar issues as OP but not exactly low T. But great levels of neuroticism/anxiety for seemingly no reason. @Kingpinguin I'm interested in your hypothesis, and I suspect the same, that supplements do more harm than good. I've been taking vitamin C, B complex, Magnesium, vitamin k2+d3 for ages now, could any of these also deplete other minerals or iron causing low T?

high dose k2 mk4 is incredible for boosting T

 

[milkboi]

high dose k2 mk4 is incredible for boosting T

what dose do you suggest/worked for you?

 

[ddjd]

what dose do you suggest/worked for you?

i take around 45mg once a week with various co-factors. along with huge boost in libido, great for teeth, bones, liver etc.