My Experiences With Raising Androgens Log (Pansterone, k2, magnoil)

[Charger]

Where are you applying? And how long will you do this before getting bloods? Also do you have bloods from before starting? Thanks!!

Pansterone to navel, Kuinone scrotally, might just do both scrotally, not sure yet.

I have bloods here: Thoughts on Recent Bloodwork (02/27/2021)

I have a high SHBG/low free T issue that I'm hoping this relieves.

 

[scoobydoo]

Pansterone to navel, Kuinone scrotally, might just do both scrotally, not sure yet.

I have bloods here: Thoughts on Recent Bloodwork (02/27/2021)

I have a high SHBG/low free T issue that I'm hoping this relieves.

It seemed to resolve it for me! As my shbg got cut in half and free T doubled! However I didn’t experience a whole lot honestly

 

[Charger]

It seemed to resolve it for me! As my shbg got cut in half and free T doubled! However I didn’t experience a whole lot honestly

To be fair, your free T was much better than mine even before Pansterone/K2.

What time of day were you applying, btw?

 

[scoobydoo]

To be fair, your free T was much better than mine even before Pansterone/K2.

What time of day were you applying, btw?

I started in the morning but have recently switch to dinner time with the navel application

 

[Julian]

Also, since Peat has suggested that putting things on the scrotum long term may have risks, I would try the navel route instead. We have received good reports about that route from people using the products for similar reasons.

What would be the risks?

And applying these doses to the navel would probably not have the same effects right?

 

[Julian]

BTW, would using a liquid Vitamin K2 MK7 product have the same effects as the Kuinone?

 

[Charger]

What would be the risks?

And applying these doses to the navel would probably not have the same effects right?

The navel has really good absorption:

Navel Application / Absorption Rivals Intravenous One, Skin Route Not Far Behind

One of the most common questions I get from my readers is "What is the topical absorption rate of your products?" There are a number of studies demonstrating that a solvent mixture of DMSO/ethanol achieves close to 100% absorption no matter where on the skin it is applied. However, we stopped...

raypeatforum.com

Apply Topical Supplements To Your Belly Button

You will thank me later.

raypeatforum.com

I definitely have more noticeable effects from topicals such as Pansterone when applied to the navel vs other areas such as the wrists.

 

[Julian]

I definitely have more noticeable effects from topicals such as Pansterone when applied to the navel vs other areas such as the wrists.

I don't doubt that. However, I doubt it will have the same androgenic effect as the OP has shown with his labs while using a pretty low dose on the testicles.

 

[scoobydoo]

I don't doubt that. However, I doubt it will have the same androgenic effect as the OP has shown with his labs while using a pretty low dose on the testicles.

I plan on getting bloods done again soon and I have strictly only used it on the navel at 5mg of each so it will be interesting to see

 

[CLASH]

So for the past week I have been applying 1 dose (4 drops) of Pansterone (sfa, anhydrol) alongside 2-4 drops of Kuinone (every 2 days) to the scrotum in hopes of raising androgens and thus libido and sexual function.

Positives since starting:

- Occasional morning wood (although not 100%)
- Increased strength in gym
- Harder and more vascular muscles
- Increased blood androgens
-Appetite increase

Negatives since starting:
- Weak/hard to get erections
- Sleepy/fatigue throughout the day
- Hairloss
- slight shrinkage in erect length...(really frightening and confusing)

So with all that information here are my results!

Before:

Total T: 660 ng/dl
Free T: 97 pg/ml
DHT: 40 ng/dl (12-65)
SHBG: 54
Estradiol: 34 pg/ml
LDL: 66

After:

Total T: 1,082 ng/dl
Free T: 234 pg/ml!!!!!
DHT: 70 ng/dl
SHBG: 35
Estradiol 44 pg/ml
LDL: 44


So my main question is: Why has this not made an improvement in my libido or sexual function (and possibly made erections worse?) Could my Progesterone be sky high? Too high estrogen? Suppression? Not sure where to go from here. I am very impressed and surprised by this blood work but unfortutely don't seem to be benefiting much from it. I'm considering starting aromasin with it to see if that helps with erections.

@haidut

I’m interested why you haven’t had an improvement as well. I’ve seen a few guys on steroid forums have high T, high DHT, lower prolactin, and low or moderate estrogen, with the libido issues.

I’ve experienced it myself as well. My T has been high, DHT high, estrogen low, prolactin low, and thyroid optimized; but libido wasn’t where I wanted it to be and I had the lack of energy throughout the day as well.

There’s definitely a missing piece to the equation, whether it’s what’s going on at the cellular level, or another hormonal/ neural system that isn’t optimized (perhaps GABA or catecholamines/ autonomic balance).

Thanks for sharing your experience @scoobydoo!

 

[Charger]

I don't doubt that. However, I doubt it will have the same androgenic effect as the OP has shown with his labs while using a pretty low dose on the testicles.

Having done both, I don't feel a difference in terms of effects. It is likely a minor difference if any at all.

 

[Andman]

I’m interested why you haven’t had an improvement as well. I’ve seen a few guys on steroid forums have high T, high DHT, lower prolactin, and low or moderate estrogen, with the libido issues.

I’ve experienced it myself as well. My T has been high, DHT high, estrogen low, prolactin low, and thyroid optimized; but libido wasn’t where I wanted it to be and I had the lack of energy throughout the day as well.

There’s definitely a missing piece to the equation, whether it’s what’s going on at the cellular level, or another hormonal/ neural system that isn’t optimized (perhaps GABA or catecholamines/ autonomic balance).

Thanks for sharing your experience @scoobydoo!

this, seen it too many times in various threads on here and other forums, reddit etc as well as in my own experiments. def interesting

 

[Julian]

I plan on getting bloods done again soon and I have strictly only used it on the navel at 5mg of each so it will be interesting to see

Thanks, that would be awesome. Looking forward to the results.

Having done both, I don't feel a difference in terms of effects. It is likely a minor difference if any at all.

Nice, I guess we'll know soon enough after some blood tests.

 

[Julian]

Can anyone point me to what Ray Peat said about the downsides or potential dangers of long-term application of supplements/hormones to the testicles?

 

[revenant]

I had numbness and tingling on my arms and hands for about a month. Not sure what the cause was but I was taking a P5P supplement during the time the issues started. I quit taking P5P and started taking thiamine instead and I haven't had any problems since.

I would quit the vitamin B supplements for a week and see what happens, or at least the P5P. There are some documented cases of neuropathy caused by excessive B6 supplementation, although the doses were higher than 10 mg.

The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function - PubMed

Vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin that functions as a coenzyme in many reactions involved in amino acid, carbohydrates and lipid metabolism. Since 2014, >50 cases of sensory neuronal pain due to vitamin B6 supplementation were reported. Up to now, the mechanism of this toxicity is enigmatic a …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

I’m interested why you haven’t had an improvement as well. I’ve seen a few guys on steroid forums have high T, high DHT, lower prolactin, and low or moderate estrogen, with the libido issues.

I’ve experienced it myself as well. My T has been high, DHT high, estrogen low, prolactin low, and thyroid optimized; but libido wasn’t where I wanted it to be and I had the lack of energy throughout the day as well.

There’s definitely a missing piece to the equation, whether it’s what’s going on at the cellular level, or another hormonal/ neural system that isn’t optimized (perhaps GABA or catecholamines/ autonomic balance).

Thanks for sharing your experience @scoobydoo!

I had the same issue - quitting pornography and masturbating frequently solved the issue as it seems.

 

[CLASH]

I had the same issue - quitting pornography and masturbating frequently solved the issue as it seems.

My personal situation isn't related to these factors. I haven't used porn or mastubated frequently in quite a few years. My experience as described, was a point within this timeframe.

 

[Charger]

@scoobydoo

Didn't you mention in the podcast with @Hans that increasing DHT hasn't resulted in hair loss for you? Do you attribute the hair loss from this regimen to estrogen?

 

[scoobydoo]

@scoobydoo

Didn't you mention in the podcast with @Hans that increasing DHT hasn't resulted in hair loss for you? Do you attribute the hair loss from this regimen to estrogen?

I have had decent recession in my hairline over the past few years but I have not seen a direct correlation with my higher DHT. It has not started receding faster despite my much higher levels of DHT. However it has not been that long either so we shall see!

 

[x30001]

So for the past week I have been applying 1 dose (4 drops) of Pansterone (sfa, anhydrol) alongside 2-4 drops of Kuinone (every 2 days) to the scrotum in hopes of raising androgens and thus libido and sexual function.

Positives since starting:

- Occasional morning wood (although not 100%)
- Increased strength in gym
- Harder and more vascular muscles
- Increased blood androgens
-Appetite increase

Negatives since starting:
- Weak/hard to get erections
- Sleepy/fatigue throughout the day
- Hairloss
- slight shrinkage in erect length...(really frightening and confusing)

So with all that information here are my results!

Before:

Total T: 660 ng/dl
Free T: 97 pg/ml
DHT: 40 ng/dl (12-65)
SHBG: 54
Estradiol: 34 pg/ml
LDL: 66

After:

Total T: 1,082 ng/dl
Free T: 234 pg/ml!!!!!
DHT: 70 ng/dl
SHBG: 35
Estradiol 44 pg/ml
LDL: 44


So my main question is: Why has this not made an improvement in my libido or sexual function (and possibly made erections worse?) Could my Progesterone be sky high? Too high estrogen? Suppression? Not sure where to go from here. I am very impressed and surprised by this blood work but unfortutely don't seem to be benefiting much from it. I'm considering starting aromasin with it to see if that helps with erections.

@haidut

Were you using cistanche? Noticed it rocketed my T and free T, gave me morning wood almost everyday but erections were never 100% hard nor did they last long. Stopped using cistanche and that problem went away.

Came across some studies also which suggested cistanche can cause ED by decreasing ejaculation latency time and erection duration.