Advice Needed For Thyroid & Testosterone

timalex

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May 29, 2019
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8
Hi there,

I'm a 34 year old male and would love some feedback on my blood results with regard to my thyroid / testosterone. I'm currently not on any medicine and/or supplements other than the occasional vitamin E, D, and C.

My energy levels fluctuate with some days feeling on top of the world and others feeling sluggish, weak, and with sore muscle. I hit the gym around 3 days a week to stay fit but struggle by putting on muscle and tend to be a lot weaker than my counterparts. I tend to carry all my fat on my midsection. In general I feel so so and not as bad as some others on this forum, but I would love to optimize the way I feel and have a lot more energy if possible.

I have managed to lose around 10kg and consider myself around 15% bodyfat at this point in an effort to improve my hormonal balance (given that my TSH of 3.7 and testosterone of 292 were out of whack when I had them tested around 2 years ago). I have also cut most alcohol and eat a relatively healthy diet (although not completely in line with Ray Peat's recommendations) consisting mostly of white rice, beef/chicken, butter, greek yoghurt, berries, fruit, orange juice)

Unfortunately it doesn't look like I've made much of an improvement in terms of results over the last 2 years and I'd love some advice as what to do next.

Please see below the tests I had done with regard to hormone levels, liver function and cholesterol.

Thyroid
TSH 4.790 uIU/mL (0.350 - 5.500)
Free T4 1.17 ng/dL (0.89 - 1.76)
Free T3 3.1 pg/mL (2.3 - 4.2)
Serum T4 7.9 ug/dl (4.87-11.72)
Serum T3 0.85 ng/ml (0.58-1.59)

Testosterone
Total Testosterone 343 ng/dl (240-950)
Free Testosterone Outstanding

Cholesterol
Total Cholesterol 3.5 mmol/L ( < 5.2 )
Total Triglicerydes 1.1 mmol/L ( < 1.7 )
HDL-C 1.1 mmol/L ( > 0.9 )
LDL-C 1.9 mmol/L

Liver Function
Total Protein 67 g/L (64 - 83)
Albumin 45 g/L (34 - 48)
Globulin 22 g/L (25 - 39)
A/G Ratio 2.0 (1.1 - 1.9)
Alkaline Phos (ALP) 147 IU/L (25 - 100)
ALT 19 IU/L (10 - 40)
AST 20 IU/L (8 - 33)
Gamma GT 14 IU/L (0-73)
Total Bilirubin 14 umol/L (5-21)


Vitamin D 37.9 ng/mL (> 30 )
 
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timalex

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May 29, 2019
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I also forgot to add that I've taken my morning temperature by putting the thermometer in my mouth for the last 5 days and they are as follows (in Celcius): 36.1, 36.3, 36.1, 36.2, 36.1, 36.1
 

baccheion

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Joined
Jun 25, 2017
Messages
2,113
Hi there,

I'm a 34 year old male and would love some feedback on my blood results with regard to my thyroid / testosterone. I'm currently not on any medicine and/or supplements other than the occasional vitamin E, D, and C.

My energy levels fluctuate with some days feeling on top of the world and others feeling sluggish, weak, and with sore muscle. I hit the gym around 3 days a week to stay fit but struggle by putting on muscle and tend to be a lot weaker than my counterparts. I tend to carry all my fat on my midsection. In general I feel so so and not as bad as some others on this forum, but I would love to optimize the way I feel and have a lot more energy if possible.

I have managed to lose around 10kg and consider myself around 15% bodyfat at this point in an effort to improve my hormonal balance (given that my TSH of 3.7 and testosterone of 292 were out of whack when I had them tested around 2 years ago). I have also cut most alcohol and eat a relatively healthy diet (although not completely in line with Ray Peat's recommendations) consisting mostly of white rice, beef/chicken, butter, greek yoghurt, berries, fruit, orange juice)

Unfortunately it doesn't look like I've made much of an improvement in terms of results over the last 2 years and I'd love some advice as what to do next.

Please see below the tests I had done with regard to hormone levels, liver function and cholesterol.

Thyroid
TSH 4.790 uIU/mL (0.350 - 5.500)
Free T4 1.17 ng/dL (0.89 - 1.76)
Free T3 3.1 pg/mL (2.3 - 4.2)
Serum T4 7.9 ug/dl (4.87-11.72)
Serum T3 0.85 ng/ml (0.58-1.59)

Testosterone
Total Testosterone 343 ng/dl (240-950)
Free Testosterone Outstanding

Cholesterol
Total Cholesterol 3.5 mmol/L ( < 5.2 )
Total Triglicerydes 1.1 mmol/L ( < 1.7 )
HDL-C 1.1 mmol/L ( > 0.9 )
LDL-C 1.9 mmol/L

Liver Function
Total Protein 67 g/L (64 - 83)
Albumin 45 g/L (34 - 48)
Globulin 22 g/L (25 - 39)
A/G Ratio 2.0 (1.1 - 1.9)
Alkaline Phos (ALP) 147 IU/L (25 - 100)
ALT 19 IU/L (10 - 40)
AST 20 IU/L (8 - 33)
Gamma GT 14 IU/L (0-73)
Total Bilirubin 14 umol/L (5-21)


Vitamin D 37.9 ng/mL (> 30 )
Sounds like a need for more iodine (+ selenium + multivitamin stack). That is, TSH should be less than 2.0; T4 should be near the top of the range, and T3 near the middle.

I'd recommend a screening for Hashimoto's, thyroid antibodies, and reverse T3 due to the cycling of moods.
 

shine

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Joined
Sep 27, 2018
Messages
666
You could try Kuinone (Vitamin K2 MK-4) on your scrotum to increase T.
Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

TSH is too high, maybe some T3 for a few weeks would help. It doesn't show rT3 but judging by your temps your receptors could be blocked by rT3.
I am no thyroid expert tho.

Diet-wise, maybe add some white low-fat fish to increase iodine + selenium intake.
 

Risingfire

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May 10, 2016
Messages
1,063
Your morning temp is pretty low which means you're most likely hypo. Test is very low as well. Dr. Peat would recommend starting at 1/4 grain of thyroid once a day. Test pulse and temp for 2 weeks each day and if no improvement then increase dosage. If you can solve your thyroid deficiency, your testosterone will most likely go up.
 

Cirion

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Sep 1, 2017
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Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Yeah that morning temp is really bad. That translates to 97F. You want at least 98F, and ideally 98.6F on waking up. At 34 years old you shouldn't need much or any supplements. I am 32 and taking exactly zero supplements myself. Let food be your supplementation. Generally speaking, you want pretty high carb, moderate protein and moderate to low fat. You probably will have to increase calories. Track pulse, temps and weight changes to course correct as needed.
 
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timalex

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May 29, 2019
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Thanks for the responses everyone. Sincerely appreciated.

It sounds like most likely the low testosterone is connected to the Thyroid.

I'm going to see if they can run a screening for Hashimotos, thyroid antibodies, and reverse T3 to rule that out first. Then I'll likely start on a 1/4 grain like @Risingfire recommends to see if that makes me feel better and will adjust accordingly. I've tried to do this naturally by living healthier the last 2 years or so but haven't really made an improvement so it's time for something else.

@Cirion That sounds inspiring. Do you have a thread where you cover your journey? Would love to read more about it.
 

Risingfire

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May 10, 2016
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Thanks for the responses everyone. Sincerely appreciated.

It sounds like most likely the low testosterone is connected to the Thyroid.

I'm going to see if they can run a screening for Hashimotos, thyroid antibodies, and reverse T3 to rule that out first. Then I'll likely start on a 1/4 grain like @Risingfire recommends to see if that makes me feel better and will adjust accordingly. I've tried to do this naturally by living healthier the last 2 years or so but haven't really made an improvement so it's time for something else.

@Cirion That sounds inspiring. Do you have a thread where you cover your journey? Would love to read more about it.

Read what Ray has to say on thyroid supplementation:

https://raypeatforum.com/wiki/index.php/Ray_Peat_Email_Exchanges#Starting_Thyroid_Supplementation
 

jacob

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Nov 22, 2016
Messages
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It sounds like most likely the low testosterone is connected to the Thyroid.

Just to echo what’s already been said... I accidentally over-supplemented T3 and T4 two years ago. I got my TSH down to .01 (oops). My total testosterone level rose to over 900, which is the highest it’s ever tested for me. So there is definitely a connection in my experience

Sadly, I never felt any different with that low of TSH or that high of total testosterone. My SHBG rose somewhat accordingly, so that may have been why
 
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timalex

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Great resource @Risingfire . Going to bookmark that one!

@jacob , that's kind of what I'm hoping. I hope that by fixing the underactive thyroid everything else will fall into place.

Before starting your T3 and T4 supplementation did you test for high TSH and low testosterone as well?
 
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timalex

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Just reading some through some of the info above, could it also be that my cholesterol is on the low side and thereby messing with my thyroid and hormones?

The 3.5 mmol/L translates to 135 mg/dl.
 

jacob

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Nov 22, 2016
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[USER=5035 said:
@jacob , that's kind of what I'm hoping. I hope that by fixing the underactive thyroid everything else will fall into place.

Before starting your T3 and T4 supplementation did you test for high TSH and low testosterone as well?

Yes. My TSH was 1.8 and my Total T was 448. So it wasn't awful but it wasn't great either. My TSH went as low as 0.004 and my testosterone went as high as 1,078.

Here's an overview of what my lab values were during this time. May 2016 was my baseline. October 2016 - June 2017 was when I saw the most changes in lab values. My testosterone levels began rising as I started supplementing thyroid.

For what it's worth, I never experienced any changes in energy, quality of life, libido, or athletic performance during this rollercoaster of lab results. The only thing that improved were my lab values. My Free T never improved and my SHBG increased alongside my Total T, so that may have been a factor.
 

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timalex

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May 29, 2019
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@jacob , thanks for sharing that. Really helpful. I've ordered some Thyroid so hopefully can start in a week or two and we'll see if it has any positive impact on me or not.

Just curious what symptoms you were experiencing that prompted you to start supplementing with thyroid?
 

Mattlebl

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Jun 4, 2019
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if you want to be very careful… get a full blood panel before you begin… and I mean FULL, everything… and keep your results. This way, you and your health specialist will know what “neutral” is for you, and the levels to achieve neutral will be known in case you ever want to return there in the future… My doctor advice purchase buy test on Steroids-Evolution.com

with that said

-take your ai
-use proper pct
-watch your diet
-watch your blood pressure
 
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timalex

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May 29, 2019
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Just an update on the Hashimoto's markers.

Anti-Thyroglobulin Antibody <15 U/mL (<60)
Anti-Thyroid Peroxadase Antibody 55 U/mL (<60)

They seem to be fine and within range. I couldn't get the rT3 done unfortunately based on where I am right now. Still waiting on my Free Testosterone results but they're probably low as well.

My plan of action is to start supplementing with a quarter grain of NDT and see how it goes from there. I've already started to take aspirin, zinc, Tribulus and Ashwaganda as well. Will probably do another test in 6 months or so to see how the numbers look and how I feel. Will also keep track of my waking temperature and pulse.
 

baccheion

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Just an update on the Hashimoto's markers.

Anti-Thyroglobulin Antibody <15 U/mL (<60)
Anti-Thyroid Peroxadase Antibody 55 U/mL (<60)

They seem to be fine and within range. I couldn't get the rT3 done unfortunately based on where I am right now. Still waiting on my Free Testosterone results but they're probably low as well.

My plan of action is to start supplementing with a quarter grain of NDT and see how it goes from there. I've already started to take aspirin, zinc, Tribulus and Ashwaganda as well. Will probably do another test in 6 months or so to see how the numbers look and how I feel. Will also keep track of my waking temperature and pulse.
While "Anti-Thyroid Peroxadase Antibody" isn't high, it's close. So something at some point triggered the body to attack T4 to T3 conversion. Do you show signs of iodine deficiency?
 
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timalex

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While "Anti-Thyroid Peroxadase Antibody" isn't high, it's close. So something at some point triggered the body to attack T4 to T3 conversion. Do you show signs of iodine deficiency?

It seems like many of the signs of iodine deficiency overlap with those of hypothyroidism. In that sense I do show signs, however I don't know whether iodine deficiency is the driver or whether it's simply the result of having an underactive thyroid.
 
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