Synthetic Vitamin C: Another Blow At Fortification

[somuch4food]

I have not verified these claims as I'm writing this in transit.

"Here are the vital facts you need to know about synthetic Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) that is present in vitamin pills and added to foods as a preservative:

• It is not found anywhere in nature, it’s made in a lab.
• Although it is chemically similar to real Vitamin C, synthetic ascorbic acid is lacking in all of these other important factors that are found in true Vitamin C:
  • Rutin
  • Bioflavonoids (Vitamin P)
  • Factor K
  • Factor J
  • Factor P
  • Tyrosinase
  • Ascorbinogen
• Synthetic ascorbic acid kills bacteria, which is why it is used as a preservative in foods and juices, however, this fake version also kills your beneficial microbes – so it’s not great for your immune system overall!
• Manmade Vitamin C is synthesized from corn syrup, which most health-conscious folks avidly avoid because of the potential risks of genetically modified corn.
• Taking a large dose of ascorbic acid can reduce our copper levels.„

The Surprising Truth About Vitamin C

All in all a perfect recipe for metabolic disaster.

 

[Hazarlar]

Thats why I take Acerola powder.

Although I don't belive that taking synthetic vitamin C is catastrophic to health. I once used 100 grams of pure ascorbic acid during a year.

 

[somuch4food]

Although I don't belive that taking synthetic vitamin C is catastrophic to health. I once used 100 grams of pure ascorbic acid during a year.

It might not be catastrophic, but it is yet another factor in modern SAD diet that leads to low metabolism which causes so many problems.

 

[yerrag]

It's not convincing. By this reasoning, we shouldn't take any supplement and simply eat whole foods that contains the vitamins in supplements.

Eating whole foods is preferable, but there are reasons that make taking supplements practical.

In the case of synthetic ascorbic acid, it becomes the only practical source of vitamin C when intake of huge quantities is required. Eating large quantities of fruit to attain a large dose of vitamin C isn't practical. Large quantities are needed for therapeutic purposes.

It's only practical to eat fruits when it's a maintenance dosage of vitamin C that's needed.

 

[somuch4food]

It's not convincing. By this reasoning, we shouldn't take any supplement and simply eat whole foods that contains the vitamins in supplements.

Supplements are taken too lightly. Many people take supplements without understanding the underlying effects. I'm not talking about forum members here, but the general population. Supplements, like medications, can hide an underlying condition.

Eating whole foods is preferable, but there are reasons that make taking supplements practical.

Supplements should be treated like medication. There should never have a use for long term supplementation. If so, then you are not approaching the problem from the right angle. Or you can't change affect the cause (work, pollution, etc.), so a supplement helps reduce the damage.

In the case of synthetic ascorbic acid, it becomes the only practical source of vitamin C when intake of huge quantities is required. Eating large quantities of fruit to attain a large dose of vitamin C isn't practical. Large quantities are needed for therapeutic purposes.

Therapeutic here is the correct word. The problem is that the substance is added to the food chain and can exacerbate problems for people while whole food vitamin C does not have this effect. Supplements, like any food imbalanced intake, can create problems and render the body sick.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Vitamin C supplementation can be valuable. Dr. Peat doesn’t really think it’s wise due to heavy metals that are drawn out of the tissue from C, and because of contamination during the production process. Maybe both valid. I don’t consume as much C as I used to but I think it is worthwhile sometimes. I use a brand that is made in the UK and not in China and hopefully has few heavy metals in it.

 

[yerrag]

Supplements are taken too lightly. Many people take supplements without understanding the underlying effects. I'm not talking about forum members here, but the general population. Supplements, like medications, can hide an underlying condition.



Supplements should be treated like medication. There should never have a use for long term supplementation. If so, then you are not approaching the problem from the right angle. Or you can't change affect the cause (work, pollution, etc.), so a supplement helps reduce the damage.



Therapeutic here is the correct word. The problem is that the substance is added to the food chain and can exacerbate problems for people while whole food vitamin C does not have this effect. Supplements, like any food imbalanced intake, can create problems and render the body sick.

 

[General Orange]

It might not be catastrophic, but it is yet another factor in modern SAD diet that leads to low metabolism which causes so many problems.

Why would ascorbic acid lead to lower metabolism?

 

[somuch4food]

• Synthetic ascorbic acid kills bacteria, which is why it is used as a preservative in foods and juices, however, this fake version also kills your beneficial microbes – so it’s not great for your immune system overall!

• Taking a large dose of ascorbic acid can reduce our copper levels.„

By messing with gut bacteria and copper levels.

 

[General Orange]

By messing with gut bacteria and copper levels.

And that is concluded from what study exactly?

 

[General Orange]

Vitamin C is breakable and heat unstable. Cooking and juicing and pasteurizing can degrade it. Therefore l-ascorbic acid is put back in commercial products to compensate.
Ascorbic acid is still a good supplement even if it is antimicrobial what can be seen as beneficial, by reducing serotonin activating microbes in the gut.
Indeed one should be careful with high dosages and copper depletion in most cases unless..

Vitamin B3 and C Deficient Mood & Behavior Dysfunction

B3 and C are anti-stress vitamins and optimal dosing is indicated for these two nutrients.67,81 A good portion of mood and behaviour dysfunction patients do better with moderate orthomolecular doses of vitamin B3 and C.

Copper is involved in dopamine production and vitamin B3 and C are physiologically antagonistic to copper and as such, can help to moderate the overstimulation of dopamine pathways typical in mood and behaviour dysfunction. When dopamine pathways are overstimulated, serotonin (the opposing ‘feel good’ master neurotransmitter system) can become depleted.

Vitamin B3 and vitamin C (ascorbic acid) are centrally active in the brain as “niacinamide in the brain acts on the diazepine receptors, while ascorbic acid acts on the dopamine receptors”.67 Vitamin B3 has an anti-anxiety effect.82

Mood disorder and perhaps more specifically, psychotic depression, may have a sub-clinical pellagra associated vitamin B3 deficiency component as classic pellagra symptoms include depression, anxiety, confusion, memory loss, fatigue, and psychosis.82-84 - link

 

[General Orange]

Forms of Vitamin C
Ascorbate comes in many forms, each with a particular advantage. Ascorbic acid is the least expensive and can be purchased as tablets, timed release tablets, or powder. The larger tablets (1000-1500 mg) are convenient and relatively inexpensive. Timed-release tablets contain a long-chain carbohydrate which delays the stomach in dissolving the ascorbate, which is then released over a period of hours. This may have an advantage for maintaining a high level in the bloodstream. Ascorbic acid powder or crystals can be purchased in bulk relatively inexpensively. Pure powder is more quickly dissolved than tablets and therefore can be absorbed somewhat faster by the body. Linus Pauling favored taking pure ascorbic acid, as it is entirely free of tableting excipients.

Natural Ascorbate
"Natural forms of ascorbate derived from plants are available. Acerola, the "Barbados cherry," contains a large amount of vitamin C, depending on its ripeness, and was traditionally used to fight off colds. Tablets of vitamin C purified from acerola or rose hips are available but are generally low-dose and considerably more expensive than ascorbic acid. Although some people strongly advocate this type, Pauling and many others have stated that such naturally-derived vitamin C is no better than pure commercial ascorbate [2,9].
Bioflavonoids are antioxidants found in citrus fruits or rose hips and are thought to improve uptake and utilization of vitamin C. Generally, supplement tablets that contain bioflavonoids do not have enough to make much difference. For consumers on a budget, the best policy may be to buy vitamin C inexpensively whether or not it also contains bioflavonoids. Citrus fruits, peppers, and a number of other fruits and vegetables contain large quantities of bioflavinoids. This is one more reason to eat right as well as supplement. " Vitamin C and Acidity

 

[yerrag]

This is one more reason to eat right as well as supplement. " Vitamin C and Acidity

I read the link. I disagree with its statement that ascorbic acid doesn't increase (ecf and blood) acidity. It says so only because the liver and kidneys can compensate to bring the acid-base balance back to within safe levels, not within optimal levels. But this requires more work on their, and I consider it wasted energy which could be used elsewhere.

 

[InChristAlone]

I read the link. I disagree with its statement that ascorbic acid doesn't increase (ecf and blood) acidity. It says so only because the liver and kidneys can compensate to bring the acid-base balance back to within safe levels, not within optimal levels. But this requires more work on their, and I consider it wasted energy which could be used elsewhere.

Wait did you change your mind in the same thread to not supplement ascorbic acid? I buffer it with a little baking soda. But my bicarbonate on the blood test was a little low for me (it's CO2 but it's not really measuring blood gases, you'd need an arterial blood draw), but kidney filtration rate is excellent so the C must not be harming the kidneys at all as I've been taking a lot this past year.

 

[CLASH]

I have not verified these claims as I'm writing this in transit.

"Here are the vital facts you need to know about synthetic Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) that is present in vitamin pills and added to foods as a preservative:

• It is not found anywhere in nature, it’s made in a lab.
• Although it is chemically similar to real Vitamin C, synthetic ascorbic acid is lacking in all of these other important factors that are found in true Vitamin C:
  • Rutin
  • Bioflavonoids (Vitamin P)
  • Factor K
  • Factor J
  • Factor P
  • Tyrosinase
  • Ascorbinogen
• Synthetic ascorbic acid kills bacteria, which is why it is used as a preservative in foods and juices, however, this fake version also kills your beneficial microbes – so it’s not great for your immune system overall!
• Manmade Vitamin C is synthesized from corn syrup, which most health-conscious folks avidly avoid because of the potential risks of genetically modified corn.
• Taking a large dose of ascorbic acid can reduce our copper levels.„

The Surprising Truth About Vitamin C

All in all a perfect recipe for metabolic disaster.

From my perspective now I’d like to address each point:

1) almost all supplements for the most part aren’t found in nature and are made in a lab. I think this point is moot. Not everything made in a lab is negative.

2) you can just eat fruit or juice when you take the vitamin C to combat this. In studies, these accesory compounds arent neccesary for the beneficial effects of vit C to occur.

3) I don’t think killing microbes in the upper intestine where most vit c would be absorbed is a big deal, if it even kills microbe in thay environment to begin with... Besides coconut oil kills microbes, vinegar kills microbes, some of the polyphenols and flavonoids (including ones mentioned above can effect microbes), bile acids kill microbes, raw milk kills microbes, etc. Vit C I think is more likely placed in the foods to avoid oxidation and degredation of the product. Most foods that have it added are vaccume sealed and/or heated to kill the microbes.

4) some B vitamins are synthesized from petroleum products if I’m not mistaken, steroids are synthesized from wild yams, minerals are mined. Everything comes from somewhere, besides I dont think theres much corn syrup in the final product. Also, I doubt the gmo concern makes it into the final product and there are non-GMO products on the market.

5) taking larger doses reduces copper absorption in the intestine if its taken concurrently. Vit C is a cofactor with copper in collagen synthesis and it pushes the copper into tissues to be utilized as far as I understand. So it may lower cerum levels but increase tissue utilization. Take Vit C away from your copper containing meals and supps. I think Its pretty hard to get a copper deficiency if your eating right.


*The real issue with vit C seems to be contamination overall.

*On the flip side vit C is, in combination with avoidance of PUFA, strongly protective of cardiovascular disease.

https://openheart.bmj.com/content/openhrt/5/2/e000898.full.pdf

http://momgil.cafe24.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/UnifiedTheory1.pdf

 

[yerrag]

Wait did you change your mind in the same thread to not supplement ascorbic acid? I buffer it with a little baking soda. But my bicarbonate on the blood test was a little low for me (it's CO2 but it's not really measuring blood gases, you'd need an arterial blood draw), but kidney filtration rate is excellent so the C must not be harming the kidneys at all as I've been taking a lot this past year.

Haha. I'm still okay with using ascorbic acid. I've been running some tests lately and I'm discovering that the amount of ascorbic acid I'm taking lowers my urine pH to below 5.5. This pH is where, according to what I've read, is where people with high uric acid would be at risk for gout or some arthritic symptoms. Since I have high uric acid, this is a matter of concern. In taking bicarbonate supplementation equivalent ot 4 grams of baking soda each day, I find that when I take 6.75 g of ascorbic acid as well, my urine pH still drops down to 5.5 (or possibly below it, as my pH test strip tests only from 5.5 to 8 pH).

I'm running some more tests to see what combination works for me. Should I increase my bicarbonate intake in order to counter the acidic effects of ascorbic acid? Or should I instead switch to the ascorbate form of vitamin C, realizing that I would have to double the amount of ascorbic acid used to make the ascorbate? Then I would have to take into account the doubling as well of lead that comes with it.

I think the acidic effect of ascorbic acid should not be ignored, especially when large megadosing of it is employed. To rely on the body to do the extra work of achieving acid-base balance is not a good strategy imho. Compromising the acid-base balance leads to other forms of stressful consequences.

There was a time early this year I got sick even when taking this much amount of ascorbic acid. It turns out that I was also taking magnesium chloride. I got a double whammy effect from it. I was urinating a lot and losing sleep because of it. Because the body was using a lot of energy on working to maintain a sort of acid-base balance, its energy was diverted and my immunity was compromised. I felt sick, my temperature got lower, I got back my previous allergies, and I had a persistent cough that just wouldn't go away.

I think we have to be aware of the effects of the supplements we're taking. Ascorbic acid is just an example that stands out for me because of my experience. I've come to appreciate acid-base balance more and more, and with this understanding I have to be careful I'm benefiting more from supplementation than being harmed by it. After all, we want to get better and not the other way around.

 

[InChristAlone]

Haha. I'm still okay with using ascorbic acid. I've been running some tests lately and I'm discovering that the amount of ascorbic acid I'm taking lowers my urine pH to below 5.5. This pH is where, according to what I've read, is where people with high uric acid would be at risk for gout or some arthritic symptoms. Since I have high uric acid, this is a matter of concern. In taking bicarbonate supplementation equivalent ot 4 grams of baking soda each day, I find that when I take 6.75 g of ascorbic acid as well, my urine pH still drops down to 5.5 (or possibly below it, as my pH test strip tests only from 5.5 to 8 pH).

I'm running some more tests to see what combination works for me. Should I increase my bicarbonate intake in order to counter the acidic effects of ascorbic acid? Or should I instead switch to the ascorbate form of vitamin C, realizing that I would have to double the amount of ascorbic acid used to make the ascorbate? Then I would have to take into account the doubling as well of lead that comes with it.

I think the acidic effect of ascorbic acid should not be ignored, especially when large megadosing of it is employed. To rely on the body to do the extra work of achieving acid-base balance is not a good strategy imho. Compromising the acid-base balance leads to other forms of stressful consequences.

There was a time early this year I got sick even when taking this much amount of ascorbic acid. It turns out that I was also taking magnesium chloride. I got a double whammy effect from it. I was urinating a lot and losing sleep because of it. Because the body was using a lot of energy on working to maintain a sort of acid-base balance, its energy was diverted and my immunity was compromised. I felt sick, my temperature got lower, I got back my previous allergies, and I had a persistent cough that just wouldn't go away.

I think we have to be aware of the effects of the supplements we're taking. Ascorbic acid is just an example that stands out for me because of my experience. I've come to appreciate acid-base balance more and more, and with this understanding I have to be careful I'm benefiting more from supplementation than being harmed by it. After all, we want to get better and not the other way around.

Yeah sounds like you do need to be careful. How is your mineral intake overall? They say urine pH is more than just bicarbonate. It's also excess electrolytes. I used to tend toward very high pH, now my pH can be a perfect 6.4, which it was yesterday. I'm not sure how I got there but since I can see based on my blood test that my kidneys are doing great it must have something to do with that. I only use about 1/4 tsp bicarb for every 6 grams ascorbic acid. And to be honest that is just to make it go down easier! But just because my pH is good doesn't mean I don't suffer in other ways. My period was late this month and I had terrible symptoms because of that. I don't think that had anything to do with the C though and more progesterone dosing issues. Speaking of which I think the progesterone has kidney supportive qualities. Since it also supports the adrenals and if you have crap adrenals then your kidneys will suffer as well.

 

[General Orange]

That escalated quickly

 

[Peater Piper]

I've been running some tests lately and I'm discovering that the amount of ascorbic acid I'm taking lowers my urine pH to below 5.5. This pH is where, according to what I've read, is where people with high uric acid would be at risk for gout or some arthritic symptoms. Since I have high uric acid, this is a matter of concern. In taking bicarbonate supplementation equivalent ot 4 grams of baking soda each day, I find that when I take 6.75 g of ascorbic acid as well, my urine pH still drops down to 5.5 (or possibly below it, as my pH test strip tests only from 5.5 to 8 pH).

When are you testing your urine in relation to the ascorbic dosage? I was taking up to 5 grams of ascorbic acid powder per dose at one point, and I'd check my urine during my next couple of trips to the bathroom (maybe an hour to two hours later) and was surprised that it never seemed to drop below 6 pH, in fact it was close to 7 pH at times. I don't know how quickly it's excreted though, so maybe my timing was off. When not taking anything I stay in the 6-7 range, so I'm not overly alkaline. My most acidic times are first thing in the morning and after a heavy meal.

 

[yerrag]

Yeah sounds like you do need to be careful. How is your mineral intake overall? They say urine pH is more than just bicarbonate. It's also excess electrolytes. I used to tend toward very high pH, now my pH can be a perfect 6.4, which it was yesterday. I'm not sure how I got there but since I can see based on my blood test that my kidneys are doing great it must have something to do with that. I only use about 1/4 tsp bicarb for every 6 grams ascorbic acid. And to be honest that is just to make it go down easier! But just because my pH is good doesn't mean I don't suffer in other ways. My period was late this month and I had terrible symptoms because of that. I don't think that had anything to do with the C though and more progesterone dosing issues. Speaking of which I think the progesterone has kidney supportive qualities. Since it also supports the adrenals and if you have crap adrenals then your kidneys will suffer as well.

Thanks, I really needed to be careful, really. This is where self-treating gets to be tricky. If I were any less observant, I would be continuing on digging my own grave while humming tweedle dee tweedle dum. I've been good on my magnesium and potassium supplementation and foods, but I could still take in more calcium. Funny thing happened yesterday as it was the first time I used calcium ascorbate (by mixing calcium carbonate and ascorbic acid in water). I noticed an uptick in my heart rate (going from 68 t0 75) and I also noticed less urination. Not sure if there's anything special with calcium ascorbate as I've used magnesium ascorbate and potassium ascorbate before, and it didn't have such an effect.

It's interesting how the same item can have very different effects on two people. We're at about the same dosage with ascorbic acid, but it's not lowering your pH much, and you're adding the bicarbonate just for the taste. No wonder you also have a nice heart rate in the mid-80s. You certainly have enough buffers in your system to be able to overcome the acidifying effects of ascorbic acid.

I think my adrenals are fine as I have good blood sugar control. I have 2 known issues: lead kidney toxicity and latent anaerobic bacterial infection in a tooth. In a week, I'll have that newly discovered dead tooth removed, and we'll see how my health improves as far as blood pressure, heart rate, urine pH, serum albumin, serum LDH, and urine albumin/creatinine ratio (ACR) goes. If my issues stem mainly from the effects of the bacterial infection, then I could see much improved bio markers.