Sunmountain's Log

[sunmountain]

Thanks for the timely link, Onion! I had a bit of cheddar cheese at lunch yesterday! That plus too much red light probably caused the headache.

No cheese from now until I'm on MB.

The post also mentions benadryl as contraindicated. Last night I felt a bit histaminy and thought about benadryl but did not take it. Good thing. This morning I again felt a bit histaminy. I think I need to divide the dose. Although this morning, I took 20mg at 8am and then 10mg at 10:30am. But I think I need to divide it further: 3 times. I don't want to take it past 2 or 3pm though so as not to affect sleep.

Last two nights since starting MB, I've slept good.

Fatigue is better. Muscle stiffness better but still there.

 

[sunmountain]

Six days on MB 30mg today. No change in bloating. But difference in energy is huge. The sibo had got me laying in bed most of the day when I wasn't at work or doing errands. I was achy after walking just a bit. MB got me out of bed and moving around all day. I can do short walks.

I guess the methane produced by the archaea was somehow converted to NO? Which the MB knocked down.

But as someone pointed out in another thread, if the infection is not eliminated then is MB ok long term? By that I mean beyond a month, say.

I will rotate antibiotics. Perhaps after 2-4 weeks of MB, I will do 2-4 weeks of stabilized allicin plus berbeine. Then back to MB.

I'm doing the methane breath test in two weeks. I don't know if it will be accurate though, as they say not to do it until a month after antibiotics, and MB is an antibiotic.

I think MB has a postiive effect on stress as well. Yesterday I was very upset by something -- in a way I haven't been for a long while. I felt very stressed and couldn't hold a thought all day. But today I've bounced back. I feel optimistic where pre-MB I would have been fearful. I do take preg and pge, which help with these things, but with MB the difference is dramatic.

 

[sunmountain]

30mg MB + 0.75 cynoplus + 3 cascara pills.

This is what I'm on now daily. Is this crazy or what?? The bug keeps adjusting to higher and higher doses of whatever metabolic fuel I take...

 

[heteronymous]

[ref]sunmountain[/ref], I haven't read the entire log (it's simply too long by now), but I was interested in your case because of your troubles with bloating and diarrhea. Let me suggest an alternative theory for the problem.

The theory is that anything that will cause aggressive detoxification of an "unhealthy" liver will cause diarrhea.

There are plenty of substances that have been suggested on this forum and people have been using for detoxification. Caffeine, vitamin K2, coconut oil, taurine, glycine, gelatin for that matter, methylene blue, and perhaps others that I'm not aware of (I would expect thyroid hormones to have the same effect too, but this is a question for someone like [ref]haidut[/ref]). The more aggressive you go about detoxifying the liver, the more aggressive your diarrhea symptoms will be. Over time, you will build some "tolerance" to these detoxifying substances, simply because your liver will get leaner, and a larger amount will be necessary to dump the same amount of waste out of it and into your gut.

An obvious counterargument to this statement could be the case of people who do not tolerate only some of those detoxifying substances, but are fine with the rest. However, even if we were able to rule out other kinds of digestive issues with such people, we still don't know enough about the detoxification process behind every one of those substances. It could simply be the case that different detoxifying substances work with different toxin loads. And there are plenty to choose from: endotoxin, estrogen, drugs, toxic metals, etc.

Now, a theory is only valuable if it can produce falsifiable predictions. One such prediction in this case is that if you eliminate all detoxifying substances and stick to a simple Peat-like diet (without coffee, coconut oil, gelatin, etc.), then your bloating and diarrhea should stop.

Note that I'm not suggesting that this theory applies to everyone having digestive issues. But I am saying that it may apply to you, based on what I've read in your log. So the experiment is simple: cut out all detoxifying substances (and possibly other supplements too like thiamine and riboflavin) for a couple of days and see if bloating and diarrhea goes away.

If this theory is correct, then the next step would be to understand what kind of strategy one is to follow to get the liver "healthy" without constant diarrhea, which is, of course, counterproductive: blocking serotonin production will allow the dumbed toxins more time to get reabsorbed into your system, and not blocking it, well, this is a Ray Peat forum after all...

An intrinsic problem that I see is that the Ray Peat diet is, and justifiably so, low-fiber. In this case, however, some fiber could be useful in binding the toxins that you are dumping. So perhaps the solution is to carefully time something like a carrot salad after the ingestion of a detoxifying substance. Activated charcoal could perhaps be used to the same effect, but I'm not very comfortable with using activated charcoal on a daily basis.

This is all based on my personal experiences and observations. I have searched this forum for ideas about the mechanisms behind bloating and diarrhea from things like coffee, pure caffeine, coconut oil, gelatin, etc., and I have still to come across a satisfying explanation. Perhaps by putting this theory forward and letting other people test it, we might make some progress.

 

[sunmountain]

Hi Heteronymous,

I appreciate your feedback. However I do not have diarrhea; I have constipation. That is why I take cascara. Would your detox theory hold for constipation?

Thank you

 

[heteronymous]

My apologies. I saw that diarrhea was a recurrent issue in your log, and I assumed that was still the case. To answer your question, no, I don't see why that theory should apply to constipation issues. Do you mind me asking though, looking back, is it possible that your problems with diarrhea were related to things like caffeine, gelatin, coconut oil, etc.? If so, how long before they got resolved? And if not, how did the get resolved?

 

[sunmountain]

Hi Heteronymous, as best as I can remember, I think the diarrhea was sometimes caused while trying higher doses of caffeine and cascara, and combining too many things too soon. It may also have been a particular type of bacteria. I stopped it using Pepto Bismol. Because my stomach was colonized by H. Pylori, and my SI by Archaea, it's hard to truly isolate causes.

 

[sunmountain]

I have started back on Haidut's simple amino acid formula since a couple of days. It takes away the remaining musle stiffness. But it may be slightly increasing constipation, though it's too early to tell.

Anyone else expereince constipation while taking the simple amino acid formula (for people with compromised digestion)?

Chugging along on 30mg MB daily. Still no change in bloating. I've ordered stabilized garlic, and will add it daily.

Hair is still falling. This really bothers me. Previously it was a sign that thyroid needed increasing. It would stop falling upon increasing thyroid. Now it doesn't seem related to that. My waking temps and pulse are higher than ever before. Recently they were 97.6 and 82. What other reasons can there be for hair falling?

Also wondering if there is a way to safely neutralize the methane that these archaea are producing. Is there any food or supplement that can neutralize the methane??

 

[tara]

post 109061 Also wondering if there is a way to safely neutralize the methane that these archaea are producing. Is there any food or supplement that can neutralize the methane??

If you find a cheap and easy remedy, the worldwide dairy industry may be interested. Significant contributor in some places to GHGs/GCC. :)

 

[sunmountain]

I feel like crap. My muscles ache. I can't climb a flight of steps without aching and out of breath. My spo2 has fallen from 96 or 97 (can't remember which) to 95 or 96. How can I have hypoxia when I'm taking 30mg MB?

Can too much thyroid cause hypoxia?

 

[Blossom]

post 109730

I feel like crap. My muscles ache. I can't climb a flight of steps without aching and out of breath. My spo2 has fallen from 96 or 97 (can't remember which) to 95 or 96. How can I have hypoxia when I'm taking 30mg MB?

Can too much thyroid cause hypoxia?

I'm sorry to hear about your pain. I'm not a scientist but....from working in the field of breathing for nearly 20 years I really wouldn't worry about those spo2 numbers.
This isn't meant as medical advice but a spo2 of 95-96% isn't normally considered hypoxia. Mine can fluctuate 2 points in the same day depending on what I'm doing. It's hard to say what exactly a one point decrease in your average spo2 might indicate and any ideas would ultimately be speculation. Please try not to worry too much about such a minor change. Your body is doing lots of healing right now and I don't think the spo2 indicates anything of concern. The worry is possibly worse than the one point decrease your seeing and spo2 is very difficult to micromanage in my experience regardless.

 

[sunmountain]

Thanks, Blossom. I'll try not to worry about the spo2, which is now 95 pretty consistently upon waking, down from 96.

One confusing thing is that I do not have elevated WBC. On 10/29 it was 6.70 k/cu mm (ref 4.50-11.00).
My CRP and ESR on the same date were 0.5 mg/dL (ref. <5) and 25 mm/h (ref. 4-30).

If I have sibo, it should be elevated?

How does one tell if our body is healing or getting worse, since symptoms of improvement of worsening are often the same? My temp and pulse are better than ever before at mid 97's and low 80's. I looked back at my log and was 96.4 and 74 when I started peating 1.5 years ago. Are temp and pulse reliable in the presence of pain and other symptoms?

 

[Blossom]

post 109916 Thanks, Blossom. I'll try not to worry about the spo2, which is now 95 pretty consistently upon waking, down from 96.

If your baseline normal spo2 was 99-100% and it decreased to 95% without any change in altitude or barometric pressure then that would be concerning although still not technically considered hypoxia in medical circles. A decrease by 4 points is considered a desaturation event even in the absence of hypoxia. It's hard to say for certain what is happening at the tissue level based on a finger pulse oximetry reading. Perhaps your CO2 is currently a bit lower than normal and that is effecting your oxygenation? That's purely speculation on my part but the first thing that comes to mind when considering the situation from a Peat perspective. I have read from Haidut's post that testing the blood Lactate level might be the best way to estimate if CO2 is adequate.

 

[sunmountain]

Milk.

I've been putting in 1/4 to 1/3 cup goat milk in oatmeal every morning. I know I can tolerate 1-2 T, but this might be too much. No milk tomorrow. That might explain some of the unexplained muscle pain and fatigue.

If it turns out to be milk -- again! -- well, I don't know what to say. I know I can't tolerate it, but still keep upping it sneakily like an addict or something! Even knowing Jennifer's milk story. (shakes head)

Well, we shall see.

Thanks for your explanation of a four point drop in spo2, Blossom. That does put it in perspective. Is there any connection between lactose intolerance and blood lactate levels? I googled, but couldn't find anything.

 

[Blossom]

I think this quote by kiran might be worth mentioning:
"Glycolysis(similar to fermentation, ends up with lactic acid) is partway through the complete sugar metabolism. It's inefficient and is usually caused by some sort of stress. The stress varies with the person, and may be estrogen or some other hormonal issue. Ideally you would want to continue with the Krebs(citric acid) cycle, to end up with CO2 and water, rather than lactate. Basically stuck in glycolysis means that the krebs cycle in not functioning properly."
So IF you are stuck in glycolysis you would have high lactate and less than optimal CO2. That's more speculation regarding your situation on my part than I'm really comfortable with because I have no idea if you are actually stuck in glycolysis. I'm not aware of a lactose intolerance connection with blood lactate levels.
I'm under the impression that high lactate would be more of a metabolic issue rather than a digestive one although it has been discussed too much lactic acid from some fermented foods (such as yogurt) can be a metabolic burden but that would not apply to milk. Hopefully if someone here knows they will reply.

 

[Blossom]

All that said I agree that if you are not currently tolerating milk it would probably be wise to get your nutrition elsewhere for awhile. Certainly consuming something that isn't tolerated would be an unnecessary stress on the body. I have my own personal sweet spot with milk and if I cross that line it isn't good. I'm just honoring it while I continue to work on the possible underlying causes.

 

[tara]

post 110023 If it turns out to be milk -- again! -- well, I don't know what to say. I know I can't tolerate it, but still keep upping it sneakily like an addict or something! Even knowing Jennifer's milk story. (shakes head)

Ditto.

 

[sunmountain]

No milk today. Have not noticed much difference. Came back from work and lay in bed for a bit, and when I got up, muscles started feeling stiff again.

I just found this Rp quote:
Endotoxin is a ubiquitous and chronic stressor. It increases lactate and nitric oxide, poisoning mitochondrial respiration, precipitating the secretion of the adaptive stress hormones, which don't always fully repair the cellular damage.

Does this mean that endotoxin can cause lactate, and what about ammonia?

I'm really wondering if the HP is dead or not. The stool test was negative for antigen, but the symptoms are so similar. I feel pretty much the same as pre-Prevpak. The bloating might be a bit less, that's all.

Friday I'm getting breath tested for sibo.

 

[sunmountain]

The lactulose breath test resulted positive for methane sibo. Doc's office on break, so don't know much more, how high the readings etc.

Continuing with 30mg MB, and more and more cascara. Now I take two pills at a time, 3x daily. I'm hopeful about getting farmalabor, so it will be interesting to see if it's more potent or not.

Added back a cup of coffee in the morning about a week ago. It immediately started helping with the muscle stiffness. So if it was lactate, the coffee is helping it. Not all gone, but better.

Wondering what to add back next: caffeine pill, or aspirin, or fresh squeezed OJ.

 

[Mariah143]

not shure how to work this site. but i have a hernia and severe cronic gerd ive tried aloe, enzymes, applecider viniger nothing works any suggestions