Starting Testosterone Gel. Low Dose Or Doctor Prescribed Dose?

SB4

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I have Dysautonomia/POTS/CFS. I also have below range testosterone, and low LH. I don't have the figures though, just what the doctor told me. I am 28 male.

I previously experimented with low dose DHEA and Pregnenolone transdermally. I used @haidut product, I believe it is called pansterone. We are talking from 1mg to 15mg applied transdermally. At first I felt better and my libido returned. This only lasted a day or two then I would have zero libido and my balls would get small and start hurting. I went on and off trying smaller and smaller doses but the result would always be the same.

I figure that my dysautonomia is screwing up my HPG/HPA resulting in low LH. Then when I applied the DHEA I would somehow suppress LH further despite the low dosages which would cause testicle shrinkage and no libido.

Anyway, that experiment was a year ago. Now I have been prescribed Tostran 2%, it comes out in 10mg per pump and my doctor told me to apply 40mg to my abdomen every day. I am not sure on this, for one, my abdomen holds a decent amount of fat so surely would result in more aromatase of the test. Secondly, this seems like a highish dose to me, particularly considering that so low DHEA caused me problems.

I was thinking of using 1 pump (10mg) on the wrists but read a study where a synthetic drug similar to 7mg Test caused massive suppression of test. So perhaps using 1/4 (2.5mg) of a squirt would be a better idea to start off. Or perhaps I should use the full 40mg? I have been searching studies to help guide me but haven't found much. Any comments would be appreciated.
 
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Lowdose. You might try some dietary assist first. Not sure that you’ve tried enough. I would take the DHEA with higher levels of pregnenolone . That with some progesterone probably would help prevent conversion to estrogen and would raise your testosterone naturally. Also, I would focus on gut health. How many bowel movements do you have per day? Do you ever get constipated?

How is your thyroid? Have you tried taking your morning waking temperatures?

If you were going to try to sort through and I would take very very low amounts. Maybe 3 to 5 mg here or there. Maybe 2 mg. One thing that can also help his vitamin a, vitamin K2 MK4 and vitamin D3. Frequently low amounts of these are responsible for low testosterone in younger men.
 

SB4

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@ecstatichamster Thanks. Yeah, I have been trying all sorts of things for 7yrs now. The problem is, if I don't know what the root cause of my dysautonomia is, I can't fix it, and most things I do will be treating symptoms. There is some evidence to suggest that autoimmunity is at play with POTS. I figure increasing testosterone may help lower autoimmunity but who know without trying.

For the dietary stuff, I am pretty sure I have a problem somewhere in glucose metabolism, probably pyruvate dehydrogenase, that results in massive flare up of symptoms post carbs (painful heart pounding being the worst). I can skirt this issue somewhat through taking MCT oil with carbs but that is another story.

I am currently taking 1 drop of @haidut K2. I eat a lot of butter so A should be okay, and I regularly expose myself to UVB so vit D should be good.

I will start today be doing one squirt (10mg) into my palm and then taking a third of this on my finger and rubbing it on my wrist. This should put me in the 2-4mg ball park. I shall update this thread acorrdingly but any other ideas or links to papers or articles I would be interested in.
 

RisingSun

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What does your diet look like? Lots of precessed food? That’s the biggest factor in low T for most of my patients.

Did you test for E2?

If elevated I would try Exemestane before shutting you down at 28 with a gel.
 

SB4

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@RisingSun My diet has varied a lot over the last year but low test has persisted. For the last 4 months of so I have been having potatoes and butter + MCT oil for breakfast, and meat + veg for tea. Not much in the way of proccessed foods. I have some chocolate every now and then and very occasionally some shitty food.

I don't know about E2. Doctor didn't give me the results. I had been meaning to ask however she had an indian/pakistani accent and I struggled to understand what she said. All I know is low Test, and low LH. Apparently everything else was in range. It was through the NHS so I don't expect them to know a lot about this sort of thing and it would not suprise me if they didn't measure E2.

Do you know of any OTC/natural AIs? Progest E maybe?
 
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Have you measured morning temperatures

Also have you tried starch free diet

Have you tried 50,000 units of A per day with dome D3 K2 and E?
 
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virtually nobody is really “fixed” with testosterone supplementation. It is a rathole that is very hard to escape.
 

SB4

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I haven't measure morning temps. I would say I am slightly hypothyroid although standard thyroid labs are within range. I am hesitant to try thyroid as some others with CFS have gotten worse. I suspect I could accelerate any potential deficiencies with thyroid.

Yes I have tried a starch free diet, and quite a lot of other diets. I do best with lowish carb (+mct) highish fat.

Little suspicious of using that much A since reading threads on toxicity.

Yeah I realise that testostorone therapy is a potential pit fall however I am hoping if I use very low dose then I can back off if it's not working without much long term concequences.

Incidentally I applied 2-4mg on my wrist this morning. Don't feel any different so far.
 

tankasnowgod

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Do you know of any OTC/natural AIs? Progest E maybe?

Oh yeah. There are some AI/Estrogen Antagonist compounds in certain foods, including mushrooms and orange juice. There is also Vitamin E (and I think it's mainly from the alpha tocopherol, but the other tocopherols are good too). Also, the B vitamins, like B1, B2, and Niacinamide. Progesterone is another one. And the non-aromatizable androgens, like androsterone, DHT and such. Exemestane falls in the last group. If you are in the US, you can get any of the above substances without a prescription, except DHT, which is a controlled substance (but 11 Keto DHT is still available). So there are a lot of options out there, and all have been discussed on the forum.

EDIT- Haidut has also talked about how using an Aromatase Inhibitor along with Pregnenolone can completely restore T levels, even in older men. I certainly think you are wise to keep the Testosterone dose low, and dig more into AI's and complementary ways to lower estrogen.
 
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tallglass13

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topically, it is known that only 20% is absorbed. Unless in DMSO. SO 40mg would give you 8 mg testosterone in blood. that is normally what an young male would make. actuall 4-7 mg daily.
 

SB4

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Thanks @tankasnowgod I will look into these suggestions.

@tallglass13 That is quite interesting, thank you. So the gel says 1 pump delivers 10mg, the amount that is absorbed would be more like 2mg. So this morning when I thought I applied 2-4mg I actually aplied less than 1mg. If you where to inject 100mg of testostorone ester you would get 100mg testostorone - the weight of the ester.
 

tallglass13

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Yes, but then you get a full 100mg of test. WAAAAyy more than the body makes naturally. Will shut down your own production and also spill over to estrogens and DHT.
 

SB4

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@tallglass13 Yeah definitely don't want that.

So I took 1mg bio available amount yesterday. Didn't notice any changes in the first 4hrs or so, then I started feeling weak, jelly legs, kind of off. This lasted for a few hrs. Then come night I had insomnia all night. I don't usually get this anymore so I can be fairly confident it was due to the test.

So far, this is quite like the time when I experimented with DHEA/Preg. At very small doses I noticed significant negative symptoms.

Perhaps my LH was decrease (if it can be decreased within 1 day) and this lead to less DHEA/Preg which lead to poor sleep. Or perhaps the low amount of test was too stimulating to me although I didn't feel stimulated during the day... I did notice sometimes after DHEA/Preg my sleep would be really good which is very rare for me.

Any thoughts? Should I just power through. I have applied another 1mg bioavalible this morning.
 

vulture

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I have Dysautonomia/POTS/CFS. I also have below range testosterone, and low LH. I don't have the figures though, just what the doctor told me. I am 28 male.

I previously experimented with low dose DHEA and Pregnenolone transdermally. I used @haidut product, I believe it is called pansterone. We are talking from 1mg to 15mg applied transdermally. At first I felt better and my libido returned. This only lasted a day or two then I would have zero libido and my balls would get small and start hurting. I went on and off trying smaller and smaller doses but the result would always be the same.

I figure that my dysautonomia is screwing up my HPG/HPA resulting in low LH. Then when I applied the DHEA I would somehow suppress LH further despite the low dosages which would cause testicle shrinkage and no libido.

Anyway, that experiment was a year ago. Now I have been prescribed Tostran 2%, it comes out in 10mg per pump and my doctor told me to apply 40mg to my abdomen every day. I am not sure on this, for one, my abdomen holds a decent amount of fat so surely would result in more aromatase of the test. Secondly, this seems like a highish dose to me, particularly considering that so low DHEA caused me problems.

I was thinking of using 1 pump (10mg) on the wrists but read a study where a synthetic drug similar to 7mg Test caused massive suppression of test. So perhaps using 1/4 (2.5mg) of a squirt would be a better idea to start off. Or perhaps I should use the full 40mg? I have been searching studies to help guide me but haven't found much. Any comments would be appreciated.
Could you try low dose gel on scrotum? I’m gonna day do it next week. You will need a LOT less than applying elsewere
 

SB4

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@vulture I applied my DHEA originally to the scrotum and it definitely had effects however when I continued to apply their in small doses I had the negative effects described earlier in the thread. I then changed it up to the wrist but same problems. So I will stick to wrist for now with T.
 

rijo

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Any updates you can share?
I'm in a somewhat similar situation and curious to see how things turned out for you:)
 

Austin Resch

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@vulture I applied my DHEA originally to the scrotum and it definitely had effects however when I continued to apply their in small doses I had the negative effects described earlier in the thread. I then changed it up to the wrist but same problems. So I will stick to wrist for now with T.
BUMP,

I too am interested in hearing update of how things are going if possible!
 

SB4

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BUMP,

I too am interested in hearing update of how things are going if possible!
I stopped it after a while. With the DHEA Preg on scrotom I got a large boost in Libido for a couple of days before my body adapted and I no longer had an effect. Tolerance is a big issue for me with multiple things. As in becoming tolerant quickly.

The T on the wrists had to be stopped because my feet began to swell. I did not increased libido in the 3ish weeks I was doing it.
 

Austin Resch

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thanks for the update! Im curious if you tried stopping for some time then restarting if your sensitivity was enhanced (or tolerance decreased) like when you first started?
 

SB4

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thanks for the update! Im curious if you tried stopping for some time then restarting if your sensitivity was enhanced (or tolerance decreased) like when you first started?
Yeah tried that multiple times but haven't noticed an effect any where near the first time.

I don't know if its relevant or not but the first time I did it I emptied out a bit of DHEA and Preg powder from capsules, eyeballing a similar does to the one I used with Haiduits products, and mixed it in with some gel or something before applying to the scrotum. After that Hadiuts product arrived and I started using that.
 
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