Is Having High DHT - Low Testosterone Good?

baccheion

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By inhibiting lipid peroxidation and lowering inflammation, thus protecting the leydig cells.
It also potently lower estrogen and prolactin which will help to increase T.
Vit E also increases the sensitivity to LH and vit e deficient leydig cells have a reduced cAMP response, thus less T is produced.

For dose, it depends on how much PUFAs you're eating as well as how much PUFAs are in your system.

400-800IU should be more than enough to increase T and lower estrogen and prolactin.

I haven't done labs while using vit E.
What about those (like myself) with a GSTP1/rs1695 mutation that results in vitamin E increasing inflammation/IL-6? Apparently, it's common.

Variants in the genes encoding TNF-α, IL-10, and GSTP1 influence the effect of α-tocopherol on inflammatory cell responses in healthy men
 

Hans

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What about those (like myself) with a GSTP1/rs1695 mutation that results in vitamin E increasing inflammation/IL-6? Apparently, it's common.

Variants in the genes encoding TNF-α, IL-10, and GSTP1 influence the effect of α-tocopherol on inflammatory cell responses in healthy men
That study used only alpha-tocopherol, which is a problems as it lowers/depletes gamma-tocopherol. A natural source from wheat germ would have given much better results.
Secondly alpha-tocopherol didn't increase inflammation, but only due to a LPS response. Alpha-tocopherol only inhibits inflammation, whereas gamma-tocopherol "quenches" already formed ROS and RLS.
Lastly, everyones diet is different as well as their PUFA intake and stores which also has a huge influence.

Genetic mutations are most of the time just a nutritional deficiency.
 

baccheion

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That study used only alpha-tocopherol, which is a problems as it lowers/depletes gamma-tocopherol. A natural source from wheat germ would have given much better results.
Secondly alpha-tocopherol didn't increase inflammation, but only due to a LPS response. Alpha-tocopherol only inhibits inflammation, whereas gamma-tocopherol "quenches" already formed ROS and RLS.
Lastly, everyones diet is different as well as their PUFA intake and stores which also has a huge influence.

Genetic mutations are most of the time just a nutritional deficiency.
It increased inflammation that resulted from LPS rather than lowering it as expected.

It would be great if someone had experimented with higher amounts of vitamin E (along with regular amounts of everything else) and had before/after labs.

Can you recommend a source and dose of vitamin E? I'd be trying to increase testosterone/androgens and maybe lower estradiol. Would it be better taken topically? What about Thorne's product: https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/ultimate-e-reg?
 

PurpleHeart

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I highly doubt it most studies show that elderly men and males with male pattern baldness usually have lowish normal levels of testosterone and normal but relatively high ratio of DHT/T also your DHEA-S is in the upper range and high DHEA-S is also seen in balding males indicating andrenal hyperactivity.

There is a study that showed that administering testosterone to old males actually reduced the serum levels of DHT instead of increasing it which indicates that when testosterone levels are high estrogen and stress is low then high DHT is not needed.

DHT rises during stress so by definition DHT is a stress hormone and in my opinion high levels indicate stress.
High DHT is probably the bodies way of compensating with low Testosterone high estrogen and/or stress.

I believe that having high DHT from stress and low Testosterone is detrimental to health.

Now having high T and highish DHT along with low stress and estrogen while the ratio is still in favor of T along with low adrenal androgens is probably the best.

Overly active 5-ar enzymes probably indicating high stress in my opinion.
 

Hans

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It increased inflammation that resulted from LPS rather than lowering it as expected.

It would be great if someone had experimented with higher amounts of vitamin E (along with regular amounts of everything else) and had before/after labs.

Can you recommend a source and dose of vitamin E? I'd be trying to increase testosterone/androgens and maybe lower estradiol. Would it be better taken topically? What about Thorne's product: https://www.thorne.com/products/dp/ultimate-e-reg?
That product looks good. They removed all the residue that could cause an allergic response.
Tocovit would also be one of the best vit E supplement as it contains other beneficial substances as well.
I think 100IU for maintenance if you eat low PUFA and have low PUFA stores.
200-400IU if you eat moderate PUFA and have lots of PUFA stores.
400-800IU to lower high prolactin and estrogen.
1200IU for autoimmune disease.

Oral would probably give you the best absorption. Just take with a fatty meal. Topical is about 20% absorption so that is an alterative if you get gut issues from the vitamin E.
 

Mauritio

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If Ray says it...

Have you experimented with it yourself to give an educated advice to others, so that they don’t harm themselves?

Can you enlighten them on the drawbacks too?

Otherwise you are better off not parroting what you read here and there, you will reduce the harm to the community.

I’m going to break it down to you: DHT supplementation whether transdermal or oral methylated tanks estrogens and testosterone. I haven’t seen one successful story of DHT supplementation AT ANY DOSE in the absence of T co-administration.

Have you read the 11-keto-DHT thread ? Lots of positive reviews there ,but also negatives like myself. I also had a feeling of lowered testosterone after some time on it . I think Haidut advised on taking it with Pregnenolone /DHEA to minimise the risks of suppression, but I could never really make it work also because of the intense metabolism stimulation . I diluted it to 0,1mg per dose and that seems to be the sweet spot.
 

opethfeldt

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Test is needed as a base for good health. DHT cannot replace test in my experience. I had rapid aging and surprising frailty before I upped my test to match my DHT. I don't think you need high test at all, though. It's probably better to sit around 600-800ng depending on your propensity for estrogen conversion, Shbg level and androgen receptor sensitivity.
 

baccheion

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Test is needed as a base for good health. DHT cannot replace test in my experience. I had rapid aging and surprising frailty before I upped my test to match my DHT. I don't think you need high test at all, though. It's probably better to sit around 600-800ng depending on your propensity for estrogen conversion, Shbg level and androgen receptor sensitivity.
What if SHBG is genetically prone to being low, 5-AR 2 more active, and AR sensitivity normal (I have all the mutations typical for a black male).
 

Jessie

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I'm late to the party on this, but you most certainly do NOT want high DHT and low T. There's a delicate balance that should exist there.

Also T is more anabolic than DHT, so if you're trying to grow muscle I would think high DHT (above physiological normal) would be counter intuitive.
 

baccheion

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I'm late to the party on this, but you most certainly do NOT want high DHT and low T. There's a delicate balance that should exist there.

Also T is more anabolic than DHT, so if you're trying to grow muscle I would think high DHT (above physiological normal) would be counter intuitive.
What about during puberty (while IGF-1 is still on the rise)?
 

Jessie

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What about during puberty (while IGF-1 is still on the rise)?
I'm not sure I understand your question. You also don't want low T during puberty. DHT is needed to fill in a lot of the secondary characteristics, like penis development and such. So both are important.
 

baccheion

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I'm not sure I understand your question. You also don't want low T during puberty. DHT is needed to fill in a lot of the secondary characteristics, like penis development and such. So both are important.
Is it better during puberty? Would DHT be sufficient then? What does T do at that time?
 

Nomane Euger

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Cameron

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I think moderate high t moderate high free t and moderate high free dht is ideal. But I think I heard @haidut or @Hans make a case for Low free t high shbg being better for transportation of steroids so maybe being a good thing?
 

Cameron

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I’ve always had low free t high shbg and built muscle well for the most part but after a few years wonder if performance is going down a bit even as other things have improved
 

Jessie

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Is it better during puberty? Would DHT be sufficient then? What does T do at that time?
Oh, sorry about that. Yeah DHT is very crucial during the puberty, but that's not to say T is useless. DHT is a downstream metabolite of T. So if you don't have enough T then you're probably not going to have enough DHT either (except in those rare cases when people have a defect in the 5-ar enzyme). T is also important for mood, libido, muscle & bone development, etc.
 

Nomane Euger

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Oh, sorry about that. Yeah DHT is very crucial during the puberty, but that's not to say T is useless. DHT is a downstream metabolite of T. So if you don't have enough T then you're probably not going to have enough DHT either (except in those rare cases when people have a defect in the 5-ar enzyme). T is also important for mood, libido, muscle & bone development, etc.
hi,bacchelion already have his own theorem on that,he does not ask you your opinion with the main intention to learn something,he want to prove you wrong on your initial claims he commented on
 

Jessie

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hi,bacchelion already have his own theorem on that,he does not ask you your opinion with the main intention to learn something,he want to prove you wrong on your initial claims he commented on
Ah, thanks. The unfortunate consequence of worldwide internet communication....trolls :tearsofjoy:
 

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