Should Introverts Force Themselves Out Of Solitude?

[orewashin]

If a person prefers the boredom of solitude, should that person nevertheless force themselves to interact with others in an effort to become more mentally healthy in the long run?

In other words, should a person force themselves out of isolation although it would be stressful to do that?

I recall RP saying that isolation is bad many times but I don't recall him talking about people who are "adapted to isolation" and what they should do.

Boredom is something I'm used to, so I don't feel aversion to it or a need to get out of it. I don't enjoy new or unpredictable things because I have no drive to pursue them. They are likely to make me feel uncomfortable because I'm more used to the boredom.

Since it becomes a choice between uncomfortable boredom, and anything between comfortable stimulation and very uncomfortable stimulation, my natural tendency is to be holed up in my room, since at least nothing greatly upsetting will happen. And if I'm a person who isn't well-liked, then there is very little comfort in social situations in addition to the discomfort.

It's quite possible that my life is already over. I've been living like this for years. I watched anime in an attempt to increase "stimulation tolerance" for over a year despite not liking it, but here I am. I don't even enjoy watching movies with my family, I find it painful. When I'm around people, they ask me if something is wrong, because I don't like being around people.

Maybe I need to torture myself and force myself to go out, but it'll make people think I'm weird if I force myself to do something I don't even like. Whatever, I guess. It's between that and continually degenerating from boredom.

 

[mayweatherking]

Nofap then ask those questions

 

[Collden]

I think most cases of "introversion" are really just social anxiety and narcissism.

You seem to already suspect on some level that a life of solitude wouldn't be very rich and what is holding you back from changing it is essentially fear. The longer you stay a recluse the more difficult it will be to connect with other people again.

 

[somuch4food]

I don't think you need to forcefully engage with people, but staying holed up in your room won't fix anything.

You need to interact with the physical world. Just walking and seeing people is enough to break isolation in my opinion. Small talk is not mandatory.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

boredom = low dopamine lifestyle. Bad
loneliness = bad, puts you at major risk for depression
Social interactions requires metabolic energy and an introvert will need to always recharge after such interactions.
80 - 20 principle. You don't have to become an extrovert. You should strategically look into forming / developing 1-2 quality relationships (could be 1-2 friends, 1 friend and 1 romantic partner). This will give you purpose, meaning in life, a sense of belonging and protects you from falling into helplessness..

 

[shine]

Try taking Lactobacillus Reuteri. BioGaia Gastrus if it is available to you. In Europe you can get it from ebay.

It increases oxytocin which you are likely lacking. For me it makes socializing way more enjoyable. Oxytocin enables you to feel a connection to others.
I like to spend a lot of time alone too, but I never feel bored. I am always busy studying nutrition, medicine, languages. There's never a moment where I don't know what to do. Maybe try increasing dopamine and lowering serotonin. @Hans has written good articles about this.

Brain Archives » MenElite
Nutrition Archives » MenElite
You searched for dopamine » MenElite
You searched for serotonin » MenElite

 

[Collden]

Social interactions are a little bit more demanding than watching TV, but I think what makes them such a tremendous effort for some people is mostly the fear of judgement and trying hard to fit in and gain social approval. If you strip those things away, there is no reason that being with another person should require much more effort than being alone.

If you think about it, what is really the difference in terms of mental demand between interacting with real-life people and playing a dialog-heavy video game? Most introverts could do the latter pretty much all day long, because they are then relaxed.

 

[LLight]

It increases oxytocin which you are likely lacking. For me it makes socializing way more enjoyable. Oxytocin enables you to feel a connection to others.

Also:
Intermittent Drinking, Oxytocin and Human Health - PubMed

Recent research shows that the homeostatic disturbances leading to the "thirst feeling" not only activate specific substances regulating water and mineral household, but also the "trust and love" hormone oxytocin, while decreasing the production of the typical stress hormone cortisol. People using drugs, seem to be in search for oxytocin, as evidenced in studies with individuals on drugs such as ecstasy and gamma-hydroxybyturate. Hot environment, drought and increased sweating also activate specific oxytocin-producing parts of the hypothalamus, just as breastfeeding does in mother and infant.​

 

[orewashin]

Social interactions are a little bit more demanding than watching TV, but I think what makes them such a tremendous effort for some people is mostly the fear of judgement and trying hard to fit in and gain social approval. If you strip those things away, there is no reason that being with another person should require much more effort than being alone.

If you think about it, what is really the difference in terms of mental demand between interacting with real-life people and playing a dialog-heavy video game? Most introverts could do the latter pretty much all day long, because they are then relaxed.

It requires effort because being around other people is painful for me. Even looking at a video of a person talking face to face with the camera is uncomfortable, listening to someone's voice is much easier.

Also:
Intermittent Drinking, Oxytocin and Human Health - PubMed

Recent research shows that the homeostatic disturbances leading to the "thirst feeling" not only activate specific substances regulating water and mineral household, but also the "trust and love" hormone oxytocin, while decreasing the production of the typical stress hormone cortisol. People using drugs, seem to be in search for oxytocin, as evidenced in studies with individuals on drugs such as ecstasy and gamma-hydroxybyturate. Hot environment, drought and increased sweating also activate specific oxytocin-producing parts of the hypothalamus, just as breastfeeding does in mother and infant.​

GHB is pretty uncommon nowadays from what I've heard. After all, it's a liquid, and that makes it hard to smuggle.

I don't crave drugs at all. Alcohol and marijuana give me no pleasure, and I'm not motivated to use them.

Try taking Lactobacillus Reuteri. BioGaia Gastrus if it is available to you. In Europe you can get it from ebay.

It increases oxytocin which you are likely lacking. For me it makes socializing way more enjoyable. Oxytocin enables you to feel a connection to others.
I like to spend a lot of time alone too, but I never feel bored. I am always busy studying nutrition, medicine, languages. There's never a moment where I don't know what to do. Maybe try increasing dopamine and lowering serotonin. @Hans has written good articles about this.

Brain Archives » MenElite
Nutrition Archives » MenElite
You searched for dopamine » MenElite
You searched for serotonin » MenElite

I read the wiki about it and it doesn't say anything about oxytocin. How does it effect endotoxin? I live in the US.

Nofap then ask those questions

Why nofap? Is it because it makes you bored? FYI, I've been doing "nofap" because I thought it would help my burnout problem. I relapsed by managing to orgasm by touching only my balls and nipple. So no actual "fapping" is necessary, unless you also consider nipple and ball rubbing to be masturbating, which you should.

I think most cases of "introversion" are really just social anxiety and narcissism.

You seem to already suspect on some level that a life of solitude wouldn't be very rich and what is holding you back from changing it is essentially fear. The longer you stay a recluse the more difficult it will be to connect with other people again.

I don't know if I can ever connect to people since I see past their delusions, but at least I would be able to interact with people.

I don't think you need to forcefully engage with people, but staying holed up in your room won't fix anything.

You need to interact with the physical world. Just walking and seeing people is enough to break isolation in my opinion. Small talk is not mandatory.

I did that in the past. It doesn't accomplish much, since walking around in public doesn't create the element of stimulation and unpredictability that actually interacting with people has.

boredom = low dopamine lifestyle. Bad
loneliness = bad, puts you at major risk for depression
Social interactions requires metabolic energy and an introvert will need to always recharge after such interactions.
80 - 20 principle. You don't have to become an extrovert. You should strategically look into forming / developing 1-2 quality relationships (could be 1-2 friends, 1 friend and 1 romantic partner). This will give you purpose, meaning in life, a sense of belonging and protects you from falling into helplessness..

Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of choosing. I didn't finish school and I can't do physical labor, nor do I have any connections. Not that I mind this path. I wouldn't want to take the path of a weak person who needs friends to prevent himself from helplessness.

Really, the stuff about not having a stable future isn't stuff I care about, not to mislead. It's just that boredom isn't leading anywhere. I actually like boredom, the next step up from that is overstimulation, but it's a bit much for me, and it's harder to push yourself into thorns instead of just falling into thorns (isolation). But it's this, or just having the same old boredom, which I'm sick of.

 

[shine]

Microbial lysate upregulates host oxytocin

Potential Benefits of the Lactobacillus reuteri Probiotic - SelfHacked

There was a study where they used L. reuteri in a social deficit/autistic rodent model and it made the animals social again. It's somewhere in the selfhacked article.

Lactobacillus reuteri ZJ617 maintains intestinal integrity via regulating tight junction, autophagy and apoptosis in mice challenged with lipopolysaccharide

Regarding endotoxin, certain strains seem to protect against LPS. Has a great effect on gut health.

Pubertal probiotic blocks LPS-induced anxiety and the associated neurochemical and microbial outcomes, in a sex dependent manner - ScienceDirect

Here they show beneficial effects on endotoxin induced anxiety.

 

[mayweatherking]

Nah porn just makes u feel like everything is all good and settled with ur life, if u drop it for like 100 days you will want to leave your house because the depression will start to hit you hard. Its really the noporn more. If u really want to change, drop all electronics that will really smack you in the face.

But yeah I would try to venture out, u will regret u didn't when u are in old age and u have no opportunity anymore, and seems like u want to. thats what has been scaring me lately in the back of my head. Really all the social weirdness and all that, it doesn't matter in the real long run, that scares me the most, especially as a male.

All the ray peat stuff tho should help, get ur Blood work checked man, something might be off. That will for sure make u feel off.

 

[not_James_Bond]

Thank you @shine for those posts on reuteri, particularly Zj617

 

[Collden]

It requires effort because being around other people is painful for me. Even looking at a video of a person talking face to face with the camera is uncomfortable, listening to someone's voice is much easier.

Yeah that is my point, this social isolation is not due an innate property of how your brain works, its due to psychological trauma that you can work on, but it does require going out and meeting people.

I don't know if I can ever connect to people since I see past their delusions, but at least I would be able to interact with people.

Everyone is deluded, that is no reason not to try to connect with people.

 

[GutFeeling]

High GABA is pretty good for socializing
I think Hans articles on Lowering serotonin, increasing dopamine, androgens and Gaba are pretty good, from personal experience having theses neurotransmitters and hormones on point make socializing easy and fun enough to get a good social life. But even in theses circumstances I love having time with myself, people can be quite deceitful.

 

[Dobbler]

Introversion and boredom are completely different things. Introversion is a personality type you cannot change it's pretty much set in stone i think. Difference between extroverts and introverts is that introverts recharge in solitude and lose energy when with others, and extroverts recharge with other people and lose energy when alone. Boredom has not much / nothing to do with introversion, i think it's more of a state of low dopamine / high serotonin, and also stress.

 

[lampofred]

Boredom is one of the worst emotions to have. Either do things that make you happy or work hard to become richer but don't waste your life by being bored. Also try some vitamin A.

 

[milkboi]

Difference between extroverts and introverts is that introverts recharge in solitude and lose energy when with others, and extroverts recharge with other people and lose energy when alone.

What is the difference in neurochemistry between those types? What unit of "energy" do these types gain when doing their preferred activity? ATP? Dopamine?

 

[thomas00]

Depends why the person is isolated. If it's from stress, which it often is, then simply mingling with others isn't going to fix it. Especially in today's society. The concept of exposure therapy is abhorrent imo.

Social interaction can definitely be part of addressing stress. It has to be something that feels beneficial though.

Most shut-ins are severely wounded organisms who can no longer handle much stimulation.

 

[milkboi]

Most shut-ins are severely wounded organisms who can no longer handle much stimulation.

Hard but true

 

[orewashin]

Depends why the person is isolated. If it's from stress, which it often is, then simply mingling with others isn't going to fix it. Especially in today's society. The concept of exposure therapy is abhorrent imo.

Social interaction can definitely be part of addressing stress. It has to be something that feels beneficial though.

Most shut-ins are severely wounded organisms who can no longer handle much stimulation.

That seems true. Well, I hope you're willing to bet that I won't get better.

I burnt myself out with forced optimism. I learned that it should only be exercised in times that one is interacting with people. If exposure only causes me pain, then I'll become more tolerant of pain. I don't need to take pleasure from social interaction like everyone else.

I don't want to be like everyone else anyway, cowering from having their own beliefs and hiding in their little echo chambers. I don't respect people like that. I'll be pure of all the nonsense and weaknesses that come with being a normal person.

Introversion and boredom are completely different things. Introversion is a personality type you cannot change it's pretty much set in stone i think. Difference between extroverts and introverts is that introverts recharge in solitude and lose energy when with others, and extroverts recharge with other people and lose energy when alone. Boredom has not much / nothing to do with introversion, i think it's more of a state of low dopamine / high serotonin, and also stress.

Studies point toward personality traits changing over many years. I disagree that they can't change.

However, what I'm pointing to isn't "personality" but more "temperament". I'm not in an anabolic, pro-learning state, and it's causing my life to be very dull.

High GABA is pretty good for socializing
I think Hans articles on Lowering serotonin, increasing dopamine, androgens and Gaba are pretty good, from personal experience having theses neurotransmitters and hormones on point make socializing easy and fun enough to get a good social life. But even in theses circumstances I love having time with myself, people can be quite deceitful.

I know that about people. Having optimal levels of those hormones reduces anxiety and can make socializing a breeze. People still ask me what's wrong when I'm in an optimal state though.

Nah porn just makes u feel like everything is all good and settled with ur life, if u drop it for like 100 days you will want to leave your house because the depression will start to hit you hard. Its really the noporn more. If u really want to change, drop all electronics that will really smack you in the face.

But yeah I would try to venture out, u will regret u didn't when u are in old age and u have no opportunity anymore, and seems like u want to. thats what has been scaring me lately in the back of my head. Really all the social weirdness and all that, it doesn't matter in the real long run, that scares me the most, especially as a male.

All the ray peat stuff tho should help, get ur Blood work checked man, something might be off. That will for sure make u feel off.

I didn't use porn for that orgasm, only fantasy. I agree that porn is bad. I would make excuses, like "I want to see if I like this", etc. Although porn isn't that effective for me anymore anyway. My sexuality is screwed up and based on "thrills", rather than actual sexuality, although that's not uncommon nowadays. I have no idea what kind of woman I'm even attracted to because I fantasize about behaviors more than the actual women themselves. Theoretically, it could be better if I fapped to pictures of naked women not doing anything because then, I would be conditioning myself to actual women, not ****88 up fantasies. But I don't even feel attracted to women by themselves anymore.

Boredom is one of the worst emotions to have. Either do things that make you happy or work hard to become richer but don't waste your life by being bored. Also try some vitamin A.

I spilled a bunch of it on myself a few months ago, and now I don't know whether I have too much or too little. I'm drinking milk fortified with it, so wouldn't that be enough?