Ostracized for opting out of vaxx

[ursidae]

I have an eerily similar relationship with my dad, I brought every argument I could but now for the first time in my life our relationship has totally imploded. There is circular logic going on. I show him data, he says it can't be real, the experts are not lying, then he doesn't believe the data, on and on.

Long story short. He thinks I'm nuts. And people in his family don't want me around because they think I'm nuts and dangerous. I've always been on great terms with all those people so you can see how severe the situation is. It is what it is, and frankly, on some level I really don't care.

Going back to my dad, was very sick this year and then went ahead and got vaxxed twice. His health is worse than ever. Tons of problems and I'm not betting on him having a long life moving forward, something which I'm very sad about.

Be thankful your dad still hasn't gotten the vax, you can probably influence him positively still. Novavax is apparently much safer, if it ever becomes available in Canada.

I think some vaccinated people are reacting so sharply to your reluctance to do it and your arguments because you being right means they screwed themselves over. So trying so hard to challenge you is a defence mechanism. My family is way more distraught and defensive when I refuse to eat their home cooked meals because they’re cooked in sunflower oil and aluminium foil rather than when I say my stomach is upset at the moment so I can’t partake. Because the former translates to “you’re poisoning yourself”

 

[mrchibbs]

I think some vaccinated people are reacting so sharply to your reluctance to do it and your arguments because you being right means they screwed themselves over. So trying so hard to challenge you is a defence mechanism. My family is way more distraught and defensive when I refuse to eat their home cooked meals because they’re cooked in sunflower oil and aluminium foil rather than when I say my stomach is upset at the moment so I can’t partake. Because the former translates to “you’re poisoning yourself”

That's a very insightful observation. Yes indeed, it's a defensive reaction. And sadly it's not going to get better as more information comes out over the coming months/years.

Good on you for not eating those meals! I don't know why, sunflower oil and aluminum foil made me laugh! That's basically how every north american household used to cook in the 80s-90s and early 2000s. A couple years ago I used to get in big arguments about people in my family cooking in vegetable oils.

It's hard to get people to accept any argument that may imply their entire worldview or lifestyle is wrong. They have to come to that realization on their own.

 

[Missenger]

With the kind of stuff they're pushing you're going to have to push for a VERY BIG NO of sorts.

 

[Peatness]

I think some vaccinated people are reacting so sharply to your reluctance to do it and your arguments because you being right means they screwed themselves over. So trying so hard to challenge you is a defence mechanism. My family is way more distraught and defensive when I refuse to eat their home cooked meals because they’re cooked in sunflower oil and aluminium foil rather than when I say my stomach is upset at the moment so I can’t partake. Because the former translates to “you’re poisoning yourself”

Well observed. I've experience both scenarios. The food situation always baffled me but your explanation makes sense.

 

[mariantos]

Hi hi. Hope everyone is well. Putting this out there for others who can relate and perhaps share how they’ve coped with types of treatment or shame they’ve received for opting out of the vaccine? I am a 37 y/o female, still hopeful for future motherhood. I had to have a procedure last year to remove some polyps and my main concern around this vaccine is fertility. With all the information I’ve been seeking and the very obvious things we DO know about the vaccines as opposed to the many things we simply couldnt possibly at this point—it’s a rational and logical place to land. So very strange to me that more people haven’t arrived here themselves. I feel pretty alone. I’m lucky to have some close friends who share the same feelings but it’s been strange/tense with family members and at work. I freelance but my job requires me to be in person. And I’ve been working on and off for the past 8 months, in person, unvaxxed, following protocol. Now with more people returning to my client’s corporate office the landscape of everything is changing. People who are vaxxed dont have to wear masks now (honor system currently) and there are signs that if you aren’t you must. Ive been able to fly under the radar mostly until now but now I stick out (bc of the mask) and can feel the unease of people. I refuse to lie but I certainly dont offer up that info. I’m torn as to whether or not to be preemptive and let the people i work closest to, know. In an attempt to take some control however I have conflicting feelings about this a) because it’s none of their business b) i may be shooting myself in the foot losing out on a bunch of work coming up in July. I HATE THIS. So uncomfortable and I don’t feel I belong most places. If any one has some insight or an experience they’d like to share, I’d so appreciate it!

Try to be rational, even if it may be more difficult, don't get emotionally involved. Do not lie, also do not give too many details to those who do not deserve or are not interested in your sincere opinion. Where necessary, support your point of view with relevance and be confident in yourself and your decision, respectively. Do not be affected by things that are beyond your power to act.

If it is any consolation, at least 40% of people in the US are in the same boat as you Based on what I hear from people who have gone back to the office, companies are VERY nervous about asking who is vaxxed/unvaxxed as it is legally a very murky area despite what mainstream media claims. Unless the work is for a govt entity that can mandate vaccines, I don't think being unvaxxed will be that big of a hurdle as companies also cannot really require vaccinations for already existing employees. Apparently, they can require them for new employees, but considering the dearth of qualified workers, I doubt many companies will risk alienating potential candidates even further. So, it will probably stay as the "honor system" for now, and companies will wait for the govt to try and push some form of vaccine mandate before they jump on board.
As far as alienation from family/friends - I think this is the biggest issue with this "pandemic". Society has realized that the enemy is not so much the elite who have always schemed to control the regular people, but it is the enabling of elite's plans by people very close to us that is putting most of us in this predicament. I don't have a solution to this. All I can say is that this is definitely not something new, but has been many years in the making and it is now simply out in the open. Even though this clash between us and our zombified relatives/friends may end up ripping society/families apart, IMO it is long overdue as the previous system of pretending the problem was not there obviously did/does not work and now a cataclysm will take place before a new solution is found...by whomever manages to survive the social collapse. Sorry to be a downer, but there is just nothing else that seems to be working. At some point we all have to confront the demons - inside of us...or sitting next to us.

Fortunately, there are enough conscious people who have seen beyond this masquerade. They are witnesses to the risks of vaccination and will not be easily deceived.

Unfortunately, there are also our other brothers, who out of ignorance, arrogance, fear or insecurity, choose to remain blind to those around them.

Divide et impera has been perfected and now has a wider spectrum of action. As you have well pointed out, those very close to us are turned against us.

My father just called me a fanatic because i questioned his blanket statement/universal truth of the following:

“We know that the vaccine works because if people get covid after the vaccine, it’s not deadly for them”

I simply said if that’s what you believe then ok. I have a difference of opinion but won’t debate with you...He persisted so I asked, why are “numbers” going up in Israel if majority of the population is vaccinated now... Anyways, these are the same circular arguments we all get roped into...

luckily he hasn’t taken the jab yet but eventually he will when they offer the J&J here in Canada. Like the J&J is any different at the end of the day...

I have warned some close people in advance about the dangers of vaccination. Among them is my mother, who had started laughing at me and calling me crazy when I explained to her what risks she could take .


After the first dose of Pfizer, three days later, blood flowed from her nose, something that had not happened to her since she was born. She had very strong bone and muscle aches, headaches, nausea, she was terribly scared, she understood that the vaccine caused all this, but guess what? She is going to take the second dose. I can only pray that she will be fine, because she does not really understand.



I've been asked by other people why I don't get vaccinated. To those who were kind enough to listen to me, I explained. I let those that I saw asking me , just to impose their point of view, without solid arguments, just out of arrogance and ignorance, I let them sleep still, I smiled at them and wished them good luck.


Among them I met a person who told me that without vaccination, we can not return to the previous situation and this problem with the virus will never end.


When I asked her why she was still wearing a mask, since she was vaccinated, she replied that she was not 100% protected and that she could get a milder form of the disease, plus that the vaccine did not guarantee her long-term safety either.


Since I noticed how contradictory her statements were, I also smiled at her and just told her I understood. I didn't stay to do persuasion work, because it just can't be done with certain people.

What I want to emphasize is that we must not be affected by things over which we have no control. Also we unvaccinated, must not look at them with contempt, it is enough that some of them look at us with superiority or look and treat us like lepers.


We must pity them, because I can see quite clearly the regret in the eyes of some who have already taken the step towards vaccination, and it is still the beginning, barely knowing the short-term side effects of this open and comprehensive experiment, nothing concrete is known yet about the medium and long-term ones, which will obviously be catastrophic.

Unfortunately, fear is still the strongest form of mass manipulation and the media has fully fulfilled its evil mission,by inducing fear in poor souls.

Also, those who have taken this step out of ignorance, respectively arrogance and blind trust in a system that wants anything for us, but not the good, must be treated with compassion.

 

[HumanLife]

As far as alienation from family/friends - I think this is the biggest issue with this "pandemic". Society has realized that the enemy is not so much the elite who have always schemed to control the regular people, but it is the enabling of elite's plans by people very close to us that is putting most of us in this predicament. I don't have a solution to this. All I can say is that this is definitely not something new, but has been many years in the making and it is now simply out in the open. Even though this clash between us and our zombified relatives/friends may end up ripping society/families apart, IMO it is long overdue as the previous system of pretending the problem was not there obviously did/does not work and now a cataclysm will take place before a new solution is found...by whomever manages to survive the social collapse. Sorry to be a downer, but there is just nothing else that seems to be working. At some point we all have to confront the demons - inside of us...or sitting next to us.

This is what scares me the most - I have made my stance firm that I do not need to be drugged for something that is a non-issue to me. I've been called as somebody trying to pretend to be hero for not taking a drug I do not feel any desire to get. Family tells me to listen to the expert advice because they understand the science the most, when with the same argument I can say that because I don't understand or trust the science, then it justifies being wary. Peer pressure tactics like "Your siblings took it, so you should take it too." have also been used against me. The government is very strict on vaccination here as well, with vaccinated people being allowed to not wear a mask outdoors, while flaunting the 70% fully vaccinated for herd immunity and now moving the goalpost to 85% vaccinated. I'm not going to get drugs I don't believe in because of anyone's ignorance on the subject when there are better approaches to the whole situation. In an ideal world we would have methylene blue being provided as an option to take a drop of to deal with more than just one virus and also not depend on immunity all the time.

 

[HumanLife]

Just today my sister said "my brother can't wear a mask outside because he isn't vaccinated" and I said "that's not right" and she replied saying "that's what you say, I would say the opposite" while mocking me claiming that I will stay behind. This is insane - if the country says plenty of people are mentally ill, so there may be many more undiagnosed cases, then what's stopping them from saying you need to go to the hospital to take an SSRI every week of your life just to curb the mental illness and insanity of the people.

 

[Rick K]

Hi hi. Hope everyone is well. Putting this out there for others who can relate and perhaps share how they’ve coped with types of treatment or shame they’ve received for opting out of the vaccine? I am a 37 y/o female, still hopeful for future motherhood. I had to have a procedure last year to remove some polyps and my main concern around this vaccine is fertility. With all the information I’ve been seeking and the very obvious things we DO know about the vaccines as opposed to the many things we simply couldnt possibly at this point—it’s a rational and logical place to land. So very strange to me that more people haven’t arrived here themselves. I feel pretty alone. I’m lucky to have some close friends who share the same feelings but it’s been strange/tense with family members and at work. I freelance but my job requires me to be in person. And I’ve been working on and off for the past 8 months, in person, unvaxxed, following protocol. Now with more people returning to my client’s corporate office the landscape of everything is changing. People who are vaxxed dont have to wear masks now (honor system currently) and there are signs that if you aren’t you must. Ive been able to fly under the radar mostly until now but now I stick out (bc of the mask) and can feel the unease of people. I refuse to lie but I certainly dont offer up that info. I’m torn as to whether or not to be preemptive and let the people i work closest to, know. In an attempt to take some control however I have conflicting feelings about this a) because it’s none of their business b) i may be shooting myself in the foot losing out on a bunch of work coming up in July. I HATE THIS. So uncomfortable and I don’t feel I belong most places. If any one has some insight or an experience they’d like to share, I’d so appreciate it!

If you had childhood vaccinations then you can say "yes, I've been vaccinated" and not be lying. They don't need to know anything else. Or just work on a wicked right hook. You're right to refuse and will remain alive to tell the story. I've told my family to eff off about it and they are too intimidated to crack wise.

 

[OccamzRazer]

I freelance but my job requires me to be in person.

Can you transition to full-time freelancing?

Upwork is a great place to get started. Over time you can actually make a pretty great income there if your skills are specific enough.

Going full-time on your own may be the best way to avoid persecution in the long run.


As far as addressing the Injectors...the following has worked well for me:

Other person: have you gotten the vaccine?

Me: No, I'm waiting for the VAERS data to come in.

Other person: OK. What about XYZ, I think maybe you should really get the vaccine.

Me: Have you read the scientific literature on this vaccine, or how it works?

Other person: No...

Me: Unless you've read the literature, we can't have a real discussion, since you don't have the knowledge base needed to discuss this in context.

Other person:


Anyways...sorry to hear about your situation, and I'm sure you'll be a great Mom someday!

 

[haidut]

HIPAA and Proof of Vaccine Status​

Vaccination information is classed as PHI and is covered by the HIPAA Rules. However, HIPAA only applies to HIPAA-covered entities – healthcare providers, health plans, and healthcare clearinghouses – and their business associates. If an employer asks an employee to provide proof that they have been vaccinated in order to allow that individual to work without wearing a facemask, that is not a HIPAA violation as HIPAA does not apply to most employers.

It would not be a HIPAA violation for an employer to ask an employee’s healthcare provider for proof of vaccination. It would however be a HIPAA violation for the employee’s healthcare provider to disclose that information to the employer unless the individual had provided authorization to do so. If an employer is running their own vaccination program and an employee chooses to have their vaccine privately, that individual may have to authorize their healthcare provider to disclose certain information about their vaccine to their employer as proof that they have been vaccinated.

Is it a HIPAA Violation to Ask for Proof of Vaccine Status?

According to several media sources, there appears to be a degree of confusion about the purpose of HIPAA and HIPAA compliance, who it applies to, and Can an employer ask an employee for proof of vaccine status or would that be in violation of HIPAA? Find out when asking about vaccine status is a...

www.hipaajournal.com

One can't publicly demand that random people disclose their health status. What if somebody cannot get the vaccine for health reasons, gets publicly exposed/ridiculed as "antivax" (despite wanting to take it) and this decimates their ability to work with other people in the company of affects future employment prospects? By the same token, why not publicly ask (or to to fill out a form) somebody if they currently have HIV or some other STD? Many STDs are quite contagious. At the very least it violates some non-discrimination statute based on health status.
That is probably why the vaccines have not been made mandatory yet by private employers for existing employees. Some local courts have ruled that it can be made mandatory for new employees as a condition of starting the job (subject to health exemptions), but even that is shaky (since the vaccines are still under EUA) and subject to ongoing appeals in federal courts and possibly the SCOTUS.

 

[Mito]

One can't publicly demand that random people disclose their health status. What if somebody cannot get the vaccine for health reasons, gets publicly exposed/ridiculed as "antivax" (despite wanting to take it) and this decimates their ability to work with other people in the company of affects future employment prospects? By the same token, why not publicly ask (or to to fill out a form) somebody if they currently have HIV or some other STD? Many STDs are quite contagious. At the very least it violates some non-discrimination statute based on health status.
That is probably why the vaccines have not been made mandatory yet by private employers for existing employees. Some local courts have ruled that it can be made mandatory for new employees as a condition of starting the job (subject to health exemptions), but even that is shaky (since the vaccines are still under EUA) and subject to ongoing appeals in federal courts and possibly the SCOTUS.

Unfortunately it seems HIPPA does not provide much protection. Hopefully the pandemic is declared over before any COVID vaccines get full FDA approval because that will likely lead to some companies making the vaccine a requirement for employment.

 

[Blaze]

One can't publicly demand that random people disclose their health status. What if somebody cannot get the vaccine for health reasons, gets publicly exposed/ridiculed as "antivax" (despite wanting to take it) and this decimates their ability to work with other people in the company of affects future employment prospects? By the same token, why not publicly ask (or to to fill out a form) somebody if they currently have HIV or some other STD? Many STDs are quite contagious. At the very least it violates some non-discrimination statute based on health status.
That is probably why the vaccines have not been made mandatory yet by private employers for existing employees. Some local courts have ruled that it can be made mandatory for new employees as a condition of starting the job (subject to health exemptions), but even that is shaky (since the vaccines are still under EUA) and subject to ongoing appeals in federal courts and possibly the SCOTUS.

They should test any new vaccines only on Government officials first. If they survive 2 years and have none or minimal side effects we can be confident there is minimal risk. It's incredible how much pressure is being brought to bear to make those who have vaccine concerns feel shame for that decision. Peer pressure at it's finest.

Choose one of the following:

1. No vaccine to a virus with a 99% chance of recovery
2. Get an experimental vaccine that was rushed to market with the companies that manufacture it completely immune to legal prosecution if it does harm you.

I am being facetious..... they are not allowing the above choice #1 .......... you must choose #2 or they will shame you into submission and they have packed the legal system with enough sympathetic judges so even your totally valid legal complaints that should permit you to triumph will be denied.

 

[Don]

My wife is getting the same jab pressure from her job. We are in Canada. The whole world has gone insane, they are so scared the vaccine is their new god.

 

[Jinju]

Ditto. I am in Canada too, and all my co-workers can do is swap their "jab" stories ending with how grateful they are to be vaccinated. I am sitting there (thankfully with the webcam off) rolling my eyeballs as far back as they can go.
It is surreal here - the propaganda that is going on, with statements being issued to the effect that the emergence of new variants is due to the unvaccinated, and the reason we are not "fully open" is because of the unvaccinated, blah blah. And it appears that everyone around me has bought into it

 

[Jinju]

Among them I met a person who told me that without vaccination, we can not return to the previous situation and this problem with the virus will never end.


When I asked her why she was still wearing a mask, since she was vaccinated, she replied that she was not 100% protected and that she could get a milder form of the disease, plus that the vaccine did not guarantee her long-term safety either.

I had the a very similar conversation with someone! He was hesitant to take public transportation once they had to return to office and I asked how it mattered to him since he was "fully" vaccinated. He hmm-ed and haww-ed. I probably made him squirm...mentally

 

[Jinju]

Because it normalizes the absurd position that only vaccinated people are allowed to live normal lives, while everybody else has to suffer and be ostracized. If society as a whole adjusts to accepting being fully vaccinated as perfectly normal requirement in order for one to be allowed to enjoy even basic freedoms like walking into a store or on public transport, then it is game over - for everybody. A lie may work for this or that individual vaccine, but as soon as the requirement of vaccination for "normality is, well, "normalized" then there comes a point when the honor system will be dropped and replaced with hard verification of vaccination status through an app, (digital) certificate, etc. So, you won't even be asked any more. It will be automatically verified the way a cop runs your license plate before he/she decided whether to pull you over or not. And if you don't have a license plate? Well...you get the idea.

Haidut - unfortunately that seems to be around the corner in Canada. The amount of propaganda to get vaccinated is unbelievable - I dont even watch mainstream news but I still get a whiff of the bilge that is being spewed. I think I need to move to the States - I wonder if I can seek asylum ciiting prosecution!

 

[mrchibbs]

I had the a very similar conversation with someone! He was hesitant to take public transportation once they had to return to office and I asked how it mattered to him since he was "fully" vaccinated. He hmm-ed and haww-ed. I probably made him squirm...mentally

It's truly amazing how they never have a good answer. If the vaccine is so good why do you care so badly about others.

 

[mrchibbs]

Haidut - unfortunately that seems to be around the corner in Canada. The amount of propaganda to get vaccinated is unbelievable - I dont even watch mainstream news but I still get a whiff of the bilge that is being spewed. I think I need to move to the States - I wonder if I can seek asylum ciiting prosecution!

I'm thinking about moving to the States too.

 

[Jinju]

Sorry *persecution not prosecution

 

[Jinju]

I'm thinking about moving to the States too.

mrchibbs - I am seriously considering it! I even looked up their immigration rules and they have an asylum category :) I wonder if I can cite forced vaccination as 'persecution' though. But I do not see things getting any better in any province in Canada (Ontario, where I live is among the worst)