Does RP Think Effort Is A Waste Of Energy?

boris

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@pauljacob actually I didn't know about him before, I saw his older articles in Danny's notes and found them interesting, he covers lots of Peaty topics. I wouldn't call him Peatarian, but he knows about Peat and his ideas and adresses and deals with them. The link above is a backup of his old blog, his new one is here: He has some health and nutrition articles on there still, but seems to focus on trading now Andrew Kim Blog
 

boris

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@orewashin When you experience something freightening or sad through a movie at least the brain makes no difference to the real thing (look up Mirror Neurons) I don't know about the rest of the body.

Movies teach you behaviours. When you experience a stressful situation through a movie (like a breakup) in the future you are more likely to act and react in a similar way as the characters did, especially when you didn't have strong role models as a kid and young adult. I don't think movies create a stress resistance, rather the opposite they teach you mostly counterproductive ways to deal with stress through their contents.

I don't think music is stressful rather the opposite unless it's aggressive or has sad or aggressive lyrics. I would be careful with the lyrics especially, choruses are mantras and repeating them endlessly in your head will ingrain those ideas into your brain and possibly show up in your behaviour sooner or later.
 

Arnold Grape

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I thought this today myself: Being positive and thinking optimistic takes much more energy than negative mindset / being pessimistic . For me, atleast right now, the latter mindset takes no energy and kinda is the default, ever-present. And thinking optimistic definitely takes alot of effort and energy.
If you are talking about actual energy necessary to be remain positive, I think you are right: the corollary is that when you feel good, one may tend to think positive thoughts. For example, you probably won’t feel like jumping off a bridge after spending a carefree day in the sun at the beach. It’s a weird revelation to transcend this (negative) way of thinking bc you tend to notice all kinds of things about yourself and others. Therefore, acting with high morals may actually just be achieving a specific state of wellbeing.
 

pauljacob

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@pauljacob actually I didn't know about him before, I saw his older articles in Danny's notes and found them interesting, he covers lots of Peaty topics. I wouldn't call him Peatarian, but he knows about Peat and his ideas and adresses and deals with them. The link above is a backup of his old blog, his new one is here: He has some health and nutrition articles on there still, but seems to focus on trading now Andrew Kim Blog
Thank you boris.
 
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orewashin

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@orewashin When you experience something freightening or sad through a movie at least the brain makes no difference to the real thing (look up Mirror Neurons) I don't know about the rest of the body.

Movies teach you behaviours. When you experience a stressful situation through a movie (like a breakup) in the future you are more likely to act and react in a similar way as the characters did, especially when you didn't have strong role models as a kid and young adult. I don't think movies create a stress resistance, rather the opposite they teach you mostly counterproductive ways to deal with stress through their contents.

I don't think music is stressful rather the opposite unless it's aggressive or has sad or aggressive lyrics. I would be careful with the lyrics especially, choruses are mantras and repeating them endlessly in your head will ingrain those ideas into your brain and possibly show up in your behaviour sooner or later.
Counterproductive would make sense. But if everyone did the rational things in movies, then they would be boring. Characters are interesting because they do what most people wouldn't rationally do.

Music that's really low-key and undramatic seems pointless to me. Stuff they play on the radio is also often not very notable. I listen to music that's excessively touchy and causes goosebumps. I think sad and angry music is in the same league as beautiful and romantic music because they cause a stress response.

I sometimes wonder, is sexuality not a stress response, and is sex not merely pain? Lots of sexy things can be provocative, annoying, or painful in a way in a different context. And why tease oneself with the promise of sex, rather than try to be celibate, if it only makes the cravings stronger? Nofap makes sense in that way. Orgasms are said to be healthy, but are cravings healthy? I doubt it.
 

boris

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But if everyone did the rational things in movies, then they would be boring.
Maybe. I don't think it would be a problem if most people lived in a good society. When you grow up with strong role models you are better at disconnecting from the characters on screen.

Right now as it is movies are being used in an irresponsible manner for the power they have. Movies are the ultimate form of language, the combination of music and imagery activates wide ranges of the brain and makes information easily transmitted and stored. You can transfer any information from feelings to ideas to someone in a short time. Imagine the education system would be designed like that.

Characters are interesting because they do what most people wouldn't rationally do.
The main character in Shawhshank Redemption is great and he acts very rationally.


Music that's really low-key and undramatic seems pointless to me. Stuff they play on the radio is also often not very notable. I listen to music that's excessively touchy and causes goosebumps. I think sad and angry music is in the same league as beautiful and romantic music because they cause a stress response.

I don't think music has to be unexciting. Symphonies are often very exciting, but I would not call that stressful. Rather energizing.

The excessively touchy music you are referring to is exactly what I meant as a bad mantra. Of course I don't know exactly what you listen to, but a lot of these types of songs teach you to fall into heartbreak and depression and despair in one way or the other when you break up with a person for example. The implication often is: "I can't live without you". Really read the lyrics and think about what they are actually saying there.

Same with romantic movies, especially when the guy can't get the girl, they teach despair and creepy stalking behaviours, I fell into that trap once and I don't think that's normal behaviour for humans at all:

Other destructive behaviours often promoted in movies:

It's excessive estrogen and serotonin driven, low thyroid behaviour. Of course the situation is stressful and causes it in the first place, but there are at least 2 ways to react to it and deal with it, and media often teaches the counterproductive (and chronic stress inducing way).

The Werther Effect: A spike of emulation suicides after a widely publicized suicide following Goethe's novel "The Sorrows of Young Werther"
"Once Goethe’s book was published and grew in popularity, young men started to mimic the main character, Werther, dressing in the same fashion as he was portrayed in the book. The trend was observed as the “Werther fever” and was disapproved of by some authorities. What really provoked a reaction was when young men also started to mimic the conclusion of the novel, where Werther takes his own life with a pistol, after the women he loves rejects him."
 
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orewashin

orewashin

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Maybe. I don't think it would be a problem if most people lived in a good society. When you grow up with strong role models you are better at disconnecting from the characters on screen.

Right now as it is movies are being used in an irresponsible manner for the power they have. Movies are the ultimate form of language, the combination of music and imagery activates wide ranges of the brain and makes information easily transmitted and stored. You can transfer any information from feelings to ideas to someone in a short time. Imagine the education system would be designed like that.
You sound like you lean strongly toward the left on the political spectrum. That being said, I don't disagree.

The main character in Shawhshank Redemption is great and he acts very rationally.

Never seen it. Unless you count the family guy parody, lol. Some people say it's the greatest film made so far, so I should get around to watching it.

I don't think music has to be unexciting. Symphonies are often very exciting, but I would not call that stressful. Rather energizing.

The excessively touchy music you are referring to is exactly what I meant as a bad mantra. Of course I don't know exactly what you listen to, but a lot of these types of songs teach you to fall into heartbreak and depression and despair in one way or the other when you break up with a person for example. The implication often is: "I can't live without you". Really read the lyrics and think about what they are actually saying there.
Yeah, that romantic hopelessness stuff is not my cup of tea.

Same with romantic movies, especially when the guy can't get the girl, they teach despair and creepy stalking behaviours, I fell into that trap once and I don't think that's normal behaviour for humans at all:

It's excessive estrogen and serotonin driven, low thyroid behaviour. Of course the situation is stressful and causes it in the first place, but there are at least 2 ways to react to it and deal with it, and media often teaches the counterproductive and chronic stress inducing way.

We all made mistakes.

Here's something more that I meant. It's dramatic and not meant for casual listening, yet it's not necessarily hopeless despite having sad overtones.


The Werther Effect: A spike of emulation suicides after a widely publicized suicide following Goethe's novel "The Sorrows of Young Werther"
"Once Goethe’s book was published and grew in popularity, young men started to mimic the main character, Werther, dressing in the same fashion as he was portrayed in the book. The trend was observed as the “Werther fever” and was disapproved of by some authorities. What really provoked a reaction was when young men also started to mimic the conclusion of the novel, where Werther takes his own life with a pistol, after the women he loves rejects him."
It's crazy when you consider that they wouldn't have committed suicide if the novel hadn't been published.
 

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boris

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@orewashin That kind of music you posted is great and the type I really enjoy listening to! It conveys a feeling, but within that feeling you can associate it to anything you want to and use it to your advantage.

Left? I'm not really into politics so I wouldn't know :lol:. I would say I agree with some points of the left, center and far right.
 
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orewashin

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@orewashin That kind of music you posted is great and the type I really enjoy listening to! It conveys a feeling, but within that feeling you can associate it to anything you want to and use it to your advantage.

Left? I'm not really into politics so I wouldn't know :lol:. I would say I agree with some points of the left, center and far right.
Well, I'm glad to hear. Maybe I'll post some more in the music thread.
 

gaze

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From Ray Peat Interviews Revisited, for example:

15. In an interview, Hans Selye was asked what his personal attitude was towards the stress that was put on him. Part of his philosophy was: “I don’t fight for things which I don’t win. At least I must be convinced I can win, otherwise I don’t fight…..I just give up. I admit defeat and do something else ”


Do you have any personal philosophies or maxims you would like to share with us on how you deal with stress?



RP: Always being ready to move ahead with problems that had seemed unsolvable is important.
I think this difference is because for Selye, humans only had a finite amount of adaptive energy, so in that sense it's not worth doing things that are hard because any stress is a net negative for life. But Ray is of the opinion that the body can continually regenerate itself if given enough energy, so for him stresses can be and are sometimes worth taking on.

"Ray: The only mistake that I think Hans Selye made in all of his work on stress, he, in some places talks about a limited ability to adapt to stress, because we are born with a certain amount of ‘adaptive energy’ or stress resistant energy, but I don’t think there is such a thing as ‘adaptive energy’. I think of such things as sugar, sucrose and fructose, which let us deal with these menacing things such as serotonin, starches, indigestible fibers, various plant irritants. The sugars are directly oxidized to energy, and inhibit the interfering substances, such as oxidized unsaturated fats. I think what the equivalent of a lack adaptive energy that Selye proposed, I think what it is, is that we have such a bad environment to adapt to that we get worse as we adapt to bad things, such as polyunsaturated fats and chronic excess of serotonin defending us against those irritants. So I think these immediate adaptive substances that in the short range protect us when we have to keep adapting with these short range measure, for example, serotonin increases collagen production, leads progressively to fibrosis of blood vessels, liver, kidneys, even the brain develops collagen under excessive stress and serotonin. So, too much adaptation to a bad environment I think is what causes ageing and degeneration, rather than the lack of this hypothetical ‘adaptive energy’. "
 

Motorneuron

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Sorry, I haven't read the whole discussion yet, but what does Peat think about sports with a focus on muscle mass? I believe that limiting this type of anabolic stress does not allow you to grow muscle. I am wrong?
 

SuperStressed

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From Ray Peat Interviews Revisited, for example:

15. In an interview, Hans Selye was asked what his personal attitude was towards the stress that was put on him. Part of his philosophy was: “I don’t fight for things which I don’t win. At least I must be convinced I can win, otherwise I don’t fight…..I just give up. I admit defeat and do something else ”


Do you have any personal philosophies or maxims you would like to share with us on how you deal with stress?


RP: Always being ready to move ahead with problems that had seemed unsolvable is important.

Oh the irony! Hans Selye had learned helplessness.
 
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I think being engaged in something is the key to everything... it's nice to hear people tell me "I don't feel the fatigue"... I feel a lot of envy 😩 above all because then I discover that they don't even follow a precise lifestyle, especially food .
 
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One thing I always wonder when I observe what happens after Rugby matches... up to an hour before people hate each other and then they end up going to party together... it would be nice if this mechanism entered people's heads in the everyday life... does anyone understand this concept of mine? could keeping hate/revenge in a calm state still be negative? a few times i have observed people around me getting annoyed if you keep calm and indifferent in situations where you are being picked on...is serotonin / cortisol / progesterone involved or hormones not involved?
 

mrchibbs

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Oh the irony! Hans Selye had learned helplessness.

Well, not really. He just applied the approach that was indicated by his research. If you accept defeat and move on to something else, you're breaking the cycle. Sometimes you have to fight through the pain especially if the outcome you want is realistically achieveable. In other circumstances people can delude themselves into staying in a bad loop.

If you're stuck in a situation you can't break free of, that is the worst type of stress. It would be like wanting to become an NBA player at 40, it's delusional. Apply it to any situation where someone has a certain dream and they can't achieve what they wan't. Recognizing the situation for what it is and moving on to a more appropriate goal is the right approach.

For instance Ray was once asked about how to get over a breakup, and his answer was to find somebody new. The alternative is to hold on and be miserable and ruminate over the past. Part of understanding stress is knowing how to choose your battles. Some relationships are so destructive that it's better to walk away from them even if you are fond of the other person.

Some activities and behaviors are similarly counterproductive and choosing not to engage in them, hereby "admitting defeat" in some area of your life, lowers the chronic stress and leaves open other opportunities elsewhere.
 

mrchibbs

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I think being engaged in something is the key to everything... it's nice to hear people tell me "I don't feel the fatigue"... I feel a lot of envy 😩 above all because then I discover that they don't even follow a precise lifestyle, especially food .

Food and lifestyle is way less important than purpose, movement, companionship, sunlight exposure etc.

I think this is very clear throughout Ray's writings and interviews. The dominant culture is itself toxic and nailing the foundation or life - consciousness - and keeping a sense of the possible like a child on Christmas morning, is far more therapeutic than any food or lifestyle.

Of course, if you're in a bad way, food (nutritious and easy to digest) and lifestyle (avoiding darkness, EMF etc.) is helpful but the real efforts come in trying to redo your life.

Individuals who live free of chronic trauma and unresolved stress, and have a support network of friends and family, meaning in their daily occupation and move around and get exposed to the sun etc. typically don't have to deal with the degenerative health consequences of chronic stress and can get by with very little attention to their diet/sleep patterns etc.
 

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