Should Introverts Force Themselves Out Of Solitude?

[Dobbler]

What is the difference in neurochemistry between those types? What unit of "energy" do these types gain when doing their preferred activity? ATP? Dopamine?

It is said that Introverts have more sensitive dopamine system. They need less stimulation to feel the same "kick" than extroverts. This has benefits and it has downsides. Benefits are for example that introverts can really feel things strongly and notice every slight detail. Downside of this sensitive dopamine system is that if there is alot going on around you, like alot of people, it can drain introverts fast, and then they need to recharge in solitude to feel energized again.

 

[LUH 3417]

It is said that Introverts have more sensitive dopamine system. They need less stimulation to feel the same "kick" than extroverts. This has benefits and it has downsides. Benefits are for example that introverts can really feel things strongly and notice every slight detail. Downside of this sensitive dopamine system is that if there is alot going on around you, like alot of people, it can drain introverts fast, and then they need to recharge in solitude to feel energized again.

would having a more sensitive dopamine system be better for someone, from a physiologic stand point?

 

[thomas00]

That seems true. Well, I hope you're willing to bet that I won't get better.

I burnt myself out with forced optimism. I learned that it should only be exercised in times that one is interacting with people. If exposure only causes me pain, then I'll become more tolerant of pain. I don't need to take pleasure from social interaction like everyone else.

I don't want to be like everyone else anyway, cowering from having their own beliefs and hiding in their little echo chambers. I don't respect people like that. I'll be pure of all the nonsense and weaknesses that come with being a normal person.

You do you

 

[Runenight201]

I have no idea what kind of woman I'm even attracted to because I fantasize about behaviors more than the actual women themselves. Theoretically, it could be better if I fapped to pictures of naked women not doing anything because then, I would be conditioning myself to actual women, not ****88 up fantasies. But I don't even feel attracted to women by themselves anymore.


I spilled a bunch of it on myself a few months ago, and now I don't know whether I have too much or too little. I'm drinking milk fortified with it, so wouldn't that be enough?

I don’t know what environments you place yourself in and what foods you eat, but in general those two combined will create the mental states that lead to our outlooks in life.

I wouldn’t say that there’s anything wrong with a reclusive lifestyle, especially if there’s no destructive behaviors that emerge from it, but I’d be surprised to believe that there isn’t even a small part in every recluse of wanting something more fulfilling.

There’s no need to force anything. Either something sounds interesting or not. The more engagement that occurs surrounding a variety of different stimuli provides an increased awareness of what is ultimately fulfilling. The belief that everyone is deluded and has nothing to offer you to me signals that you have not interacted with enough people, because there are so many different belief and value systems out there. The “mainstream” persona may be highly uninteresting, but there are a vast amount of eccentric, colorful individuals who have refreshing perspectives and personalities.

So to the original question, yes, I would say force yourself out of solitude, but not into something that sounds unpleasant, but into something that you are unsure about, but could potentially be interesting. The exploration of our world is the hallmark of the human experience, and the cessation of such exploration (in both internal and external, micro and macro environments) is an affront to our humanity.

 

[orewashin]

You do you

If you tell someone that they're helpless and it turns out that they're not, then you're WRONG and you could have discouraged that person from saving themselves, had that person not proven otherwise. You don't make a claim like that lightly, not unless you don't want anyone to respect your word or take you seriously. The only thing you can respectably do is back out of what you said or own up to it.

 

[thomas00]

not unless you don't want anyone to respect your word or take you seriously

I'm not too fussed.

I don't recall telling anybody how to go about things. If they want to force themselves to be social I don't really care. Though it bothers me when people think it's the only way, which is what psychologists usually let them believe. Outside of Peat's writings, how much have you heard learned helplessness (and the drugs and hormones that reverse it) be discussed? I haven't heard it at all and I have had several lifetimes worth of appointments with all sorts of medical jokers.

 

[orewashin]

I don’t know what environments you place yourself in and what foods you eat, but in general those two combined will create the mental states that lead to our outlooks in life.

I wouldn’t say that there’s anything wrong with a reclusive lifestyle, especially if there’s no destructive behaviors that emerge from it, but I’d be surprised to believe that there isn’t even a small part in every recluse of wanting something more fulfilling.

There’s no need to force anything. Either something sounds interesting or not. The more engagement that occurs surrounding a variety of different stimuli provides an increased awareness of what is ultimately fulfilling. The belief that everyone is deluded and has nothing to offer you to me signals that you have not interacted with enough people, because there are so many different belief and value systems out there. The “mainstream” persona may be highly uninteresting, but there are a vast amount of eccentric, colorful individuals who have refreshing perspectives and personalities.

So to the original question, yes, I would say force yourself out of solitude, but not into something that sounds unpleasant, but into something that you are unsure about, but could potentially be interesting. The exploration of our world is the hallmark of the human experience, and the cessation of such exploration (in both internal and external, micro and macro environments) is an affront to our humanity.

Good answer. It would probably be wiser to try to get oneself to explore more wholesome environments though. Although we have more things to do than ever before, with technology, we also end up locking ourselves out of real social interaction because of it, and that's probably why depression is higher and on the rise.

I quit porn in an attempt to motivate myself to go out. One thing I think is holding me back is my tendency to plan things out. People are very complicated and that gives me performance anxiety. I may have a certain idea in mind of what I want from a woman for example, but real women may be unavailable, unwilling, willing but afraid to, willing but with ideas against something, they may be only partly willing, they could be busy, or the craziest thing would be if I really enjoyed an interaction with a woman or built a connection and yet didn't get anything I planned to.

So the best way to go about it would be like you said, to approach because there's a mere possibility of something enjoyable happening. But people now become weak because of the amount of instant gratification available, which makes that small possibility not rewarding enough for the perceived risk.

I said "woman" because I've been a recluse for so long that I have trouble understanding the appeal of social interaction by itself. I may speculate, but my brain doesn't really understand. It got wired for creating rewarding fantasies, and has trouble understanding the appeal of asking people about where they work, what their opinions are about various topics, etc.

 

[aguineapig]

Develop a terroristic sense of humor by watching a lot of curb your enthusiasm, norm MacDonald, really good line-toeing deadpan. It makes interacting with boring people more fun, and you find the ones who still have some vigor left to boot. Sense of humor is a great litmus test.

 

[Runenight201]

Good answer. It would probably be wiser to try to get oneself to explore more wholesome environments though. Although we have more things to do than ever before, with technology, we also end up locking ourselves out of real social interaction because of it, and that's probably why depression is higher and on the rise.

I quit porn in an attempt to motivate myself to go out. One thing I think is holding me back is my tendency to plan things out. People are very complicated and that gives me performance anxiety. I may have a certain idea in mind of what I want from a woman for example, but real women may be unavailable, unwilling, willing but afraid to, willing but with ideas against something, they may be only partly willing, they could be busy, or the craziest thing would be if I really enjoyed an interaction with a woman or built a connection and yet didn't get anything I planned to.

So the best way to go about it would be like you said, to approach because there's a mere possibility of something enjoyable happening. But people now become weak because of the amount of instant gratification available, which makes that small possibility not rewarding enough for the perceived risk.

I said "woman" because I've been a recluse for so long that I have trouble understanding the appeal of social interaction by itself. I may speculate, but my brain doesn't really understand. It got wired for creating rewarding fantasies, and has trouble understanding the appeal of asking people about where they work, what their opinions are about various topics, etc.

I’ve always found activities to be a great tool by which the naturally internal personality type can more easily express themself as well as get to know others. The shared bond of working towards something with someone else at the least provides an immediate need to communicate and interact. It can be as simple or complex an activity as anyone would like.

In regards to having no desire to learn about others, perhaps it is a symptom of the individualistic western personality type taken to the extreme. Others have nothing to offer because the self can take care of everything. Prior to such strong ability for the self to handle all aspects of life, the others were necessary for the self’s survival, and so physical/psychological pathways are formed to maintain the other in the self’s life. Unfortunately the self alone ultimately does not provide a lasting sense of fulfillment, that which is provided by community and relationships. Perhaps viewing things in this light can spark the impetus to learn how to connect with others. Consuming foods that do not poison the body and taking substances that decrease the negative physiological state and boost the positive ones can facilitate such a process.

Any manifestation of anxiety, which you mentioned you have, still shows that the internal states are not healthily aligned.

 

[orewashin]

Develop a terroristic sense of humor by watching a lot of curb your enthusiasm, norm MacDonald, really good line-toeing deadpan. It makes interacting with boring people more fun, and you find the ones who still have some vigor left to boot. Sense of humor is a great litmus test.

Like Doug Stanhope in Deadpan Hero?

I liked George Carlin but already watched all his stuff.

Deadpan is funny, but I think it's also funny when people actually believe you. Though, I wouldn't do that in real life, just online.

You know, the thing about jokes is that I think that society is a joke, so nothing really surprises me anymore. Ridiculous notions are sometimes considered normal.

People have said that I'm funny as ***t although I'm quiet, you may be onto something there.

I'll check out the Norm show. It was only for two years, so I guess it wouldn't take too long to watch everything.

 

[aguineapig]

All I'm saying is that for me, it gives me some motivation to tolerate other people. I blur the line all the time: people don't know when I'm joking. Because I joke about "serious" things all the time, and then extoll the absurd and base into seriousness for the same comedic effect.

Just something to do. It can be fun.

 

[orewashin]

I’ve always found activities to be a great tool by which the naturally internal personality type can more easily express themself as well as get to know others. The shared bond of working towards something with someone else at the least provides an immediate need to communicate and interact. It can be as simple or complex an activity as anyone would like.

In regards to having no desire to learn about others, perhaps it is a symptom of the individualistic western personality type taken to the extreme. Others have nothing to offer because the self can take care of everything. Prior to such strong ability for the self to handle all aspects of life, the others were necessary for the self’s survival, and so physical/psychological pathways are formed to maintain the other in the self’s life. Unfortunately the self alone ultimately does not provide a lasting sense of fulfillment, that which is provided by community and relationships. Perhaps viewing things in this light can spark the impetus to learn how to connect with others. Consuming foods that do not poison the body and taking substances that decrease the negative physiological state and boost the positive ones can facilitate such a process.

Any manifestation of anxiety, which you mentioned you have, still shows that the internal states are not healthily aligned.

I've heard about that being a good way to get oneself out there, doing stuff that requires you to interact with others.

When you mentioned food, I thought you were talking about eating a varied diet, as opposed to the same thing over and over. I'm too lazy to cook for myself, so I only eat cooked food when my family cooks. Other than that, and having to eat when out, I just drink milk, eat fruits, or drink OJ, more or less.

So people should deliberately bore themselves in order to "need" other people, are you in agreement with this? I think that even though it may be less pleasurable or exciting at first, it will lead to better results in the long run than doing something more entertaining in solitude. Experiencing something positive with other people tends to inspire people to reach out, whereas if you spoil all that by doing it alone, you're going to unconsciously associate being alone with happiness, which would push you in the direction of isolation and subsequent degeneration.

 

[orewashin]

All I'm saying is that for me, it gives me some motivation to tolerate other people. I blur the line all the time: people don't know when I'm joking. Because I joke about "serious" things all the time, and then extoll the absurd and base into seriousness for the same comedic effect.

Just something to do. It can be fun.

That might not end well for me. One time, I was delivering dirty laundry home in packages and someone joked (or at least I think so) that the postal service will think there's corpses in there. I laughed, and the other person later talked behind my back, saying he has a bad feeling about me because of that.

The COVID-19 stuff? I could joke that it should be sprayed at the rioters in the current situation, but there could be people who "want" to dislike me, and they would have an actual reason to, by believing that I'm being serious.

Then again, people who try to find reasons to dislike you are lame. I just think if I joked like that to strangers, they may really think I'm a psycho. People started rumors about me without me having to morbidly joke about anything.

 

[Jib]

No easy answers. No one actually knows whether introversion is the result of trauma, or is a genetic trait. No one can say definitively. And at the end of the day, what difference does it make? Whether it's nature or nurture, the reality is that you are where you are right now. And you are questioning where you are right now.

The fact that you're questioning where you are right now is the answer to your question.

You want more out of your life than what you're currently getting, but seem to be mentally blocked as far as identifying what that "something" is. That is a tricky place to be.

Personally, I'm deeply traumatized and completely isolated, and don't see any viable way out of my situation. However, that doesn't mean there isn't a way. I think imagination is extremely important. To think about things that make you excited. Most people would struggle to do this; to simply imagine something that makes them feel inspired or excited. Unfortunately many people have lost this capacity, and doing such a simple exercise is a real challenge for them.

But it's worth a try. It's a good starting point. Action follows thought. Getting your thoughts cleaned out and straightened up will help your situation, even if it isn't a cure-all, and won't take action for you. It's a start. At the very least, it'll kill boredom. It can be quite challenging to think of something that excites you when you're in a state of listlessness.

That being said, I'm at a loss as far as introversion and forcing interaction goes. I've been in a similar situation, with an opportunity to see people regularly, however.....I don't really enjoy myself that much when I'm there. Or it's so exhausting that I can't tell if I'm enjoying myself. I've had both thoughts: this is very good to get me out of the house, and it makes me feel somewhat normal, and.......this is way too draining, I cannot do this anymore, I feel so much better when I'm home alone.

Very tricky to have those conflicting thoughts. And as someone who's experiencing it firsthand, I'll say there's no easy answer. I would err on the side of forcing yourself to interact with people, but maintain firm boundaries. Only compromise or give in on your boundaries when it suits you, such as hanging out with people for longer than you intended to, or something similarly mild.

If you don't maintain boundaries, you'll burn out. That's my issue lately: I'm not assertive, so I get sucked into social situations far beyond my original intention. Like being with people for 10 hours when I planned on spending 1 or 2 with them. Or agreeing to meet up once or twice a week when I originally planned on making no commitments at all, and only visiting when I genuinely wanted to or felt comfortable enough to.

These are all things to keep in mind.

It's all very confusing...trust me, I know. I'll repeat: force yourself to interact with people to some extent, but maintain solid boundaries. It's okay to want to hang out with people a lot one day, and to completely shut yourself up in your room the next. Just don't lock yourself into the idea that it's "either or." Staying flexible and open to new experiences is good. Being open to new experiences does not mean always partaking in them. Just being open to the idea. If you want to say no, say no. If you want to say yes, say yes. Don't get stuck thinking that you always have to say yes, or always have to say no. 'Either or' is definitely not the answer.

 

[Runenight201]

I've heard about that being a good way to get oneself out there, doing stuff that requires you to interact with others.

When you mentioned food, I thought you were talking about eating a varied diet, as opposed to the same thing over and over. I'm too lazy to cook for myself, so I only eat cooked food when my family cooks. Other than that, and having to eat when out, I just drink milk, eat fruits, or drink OJ, more or less.

So people should deliberately bore themselves in order to "need" other people, are you in agreement with this? I think that even though it may be less pleasurable or exciting at first, it will lead to better results in the long run than doing something more entertaining in solitude. Experiencing something positive with other people tends to inspire people to reach out, whereas if you spoil all that by doing it alone, you're going to unconsciously associate being alone with happiness, which would push you in the direction of isolation and subsequent degeneration.

I forgot where I read the quote, or who it was by, but someone remarked in the 1800s or earlier how the world would be a much better place if human beings would just be content with holing up in their rooms. Prior to such modern stimulations, human socialization was the sole means by which we were able to stay entertained!

It certainly couldn’t hurt to try. Personally I’ve noticed that eventually I’ll grow terribly bored of the various modern habits I’ve adopted to keep myself occupied, and I begin to crave something else. However, the best moments in my life have occurred even while surrounded by distractions. When the mind is truly stimulated and alive, it doesn’t fall back on routinized behaviors to pass time, but rather actively engages with the world around it, in whatever capacity that may be at the time.

Joining a team of some sorts could be helpful as well.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Nofap then ask those questions

I agree.

 

[BingDing]

Being in a catabolic state is a red flag. Just eating more usable protein should help, gelatin and collagen have zero tryptophan so no risk of increasing brain serotonin.

I've found that people who are on vacation are noticeably easier to socialize with. I don't mean hordes of tourists but something lower key. Maybe a state park where they have camping/RVs. Toss a round of frisbee golf if they have a course, or grill a hamburger and have a picnic, or look for a bird you've never seen and try to figure out what it is, etc. And just chat with people you cross paths with.

I've lived alone and worked at home for decades and there is a lot I like about it. I have to agree that people will eventually lie and betray you, so I don't regret avoiding that. It's been years since I've met a prospective girl friend in day to day life but it has happened easily on cruises and vacations. The fact that they lived thousands of miles away from me made it a short term affair but it was rewarding at the time and I have the good memories.

I don't think you should force yourself into it and just cycle through the same old patterns. RP has said the same things over and over for 30+ years, follow the basics until you get micronutrients, hormones and neurotransmitters in balance. Getting some balance in your social life should become easier.

 

[ebs]

You need to interact with the physical world. Just walking and seeing people is enough to break isolation in my opinion. Small talk is not mandatory.

Agree 100%. Being outside everyday is important but small talk is cringy, unless you have an actual objective, such as approaching a girl and you want to get to know someone. I really can't bother wasting my time talking to strangers I'm not interested in, but I do need the 'interaction' as you describe it to feel alive so to speak.

 

[Iqa]

Please take this with a grain of salt. I mean no harm in how blunt I may sound.

You have a lot of things you can work on. In this small window into your world that you've provided, I can see elements of anxiety, fear, pessimism, and narcissism.

I'm not trying to insult you in any way. I'm being blunt so that you're aware of what you're conveying. Everyone experiences these things from time to time. None of these are you're fault. I believe anxiety and fear can force people into isolation and pessimism keeps them there. While narcissism is a coping mechanism to ensure one's ego isn't fully damaged.

Again sorry about this. I only want to provide another perspective.
In my opinion, spending some time asking yourself these questions (obviously this isn't something I expect you to answer on this forum) during an uninterrupted time will provide you some structure for going forward:

What prevented you from finishing school and does it relate to what you're experiencing now?
If it was health reasons, can you try to fix those health issues now?
Why are you concerned with not being a weak person?
In your opinion, what is a weak person?
"being around other people is painful for me", Physically, what do you experience when around other people?
If there was nothing holding you back, what type of life would you want to live?
Why is it important to not be "like everyone else"?
What do you think other people think about you?
"people are very complicated", in what ways? Can you learn to better understand others?
In what ways do you take responsibility for yourself in everyday life?
Can you take on more responsibility when it comes to work, cooking, and relationships?
In what ways does your family provide for you?
Why is it concerning if people "started rumors" or people find "reasons to dislike you"?

Good luck with everything

 

[orewashin]

@Iqa

Continuation:
Chronic Fatigue Or Paralysis?

I realized that being introverted wasn't my problem at all. I have CFS that didn't improve from Peating for almost a decade, only steadily got worse. Essentially, grooming and then being around people is painful for me because it depletes my physical energy, forcing me to use mental energy and making my muscles hurt (fibromyalgia). Social interaction using mental energy means my abillity to use physical energy also gets screwed.

I started having symptoms of CFS when I was an adolescent, and my personality developed around it. I don't know what's CFS and what isn't anymore. So I don't feel like I can answer your questions. I don't know if I can even succeed in what I wanted to. Peating doesn't do anything. I have no way of controlling my illness, just working around it.

I talked about strength because I have a less authoritarian attitude than most. I don't want anyone's protection or to live under anyone. There are so many things wrong with the system, yet people swallow all that crap and soothe themselves with alcohol, drugs, and zombifying media. I'm never going to work unless I want to. I'm not going to abandon self-respect and fall in line. Not that I have a choice, I can't work anyway. But the important thing is that I don't respect people who let themselves become a tool. Demand equals supply, and its their fault that the system is so authoritarian.

So not only does social interaction deplete my low energy, I am often disliked because of my views, and I often dislike other people. I have a double whammy in social handicap.