Introversion On The Rise

[ursidae]

Do you think the hikikomori levels of introversion demonstrated by the younger generations is indicative of a decline in health? On the one hand, achieving mastery over a subject or a skill requires many hours spent in solitude and reflective, analytical minds tend to favour isolation. However, I think introversion is innate to these people and they're naturally the minority within a population. I suspect the overwhelming number of self proclaimed introverts nowadays are simply people who lack the energetic resource to be social which entails a certain level of stress- the stress of encountering different opinions, exerting empathetic effort and entering unpredictable situations (an energy investment if you will that eventually pays off) or are crippled by anxiety- another mental disorder that has become ubiquitous. I have noticed people have become increasingly introverted and closed off with time - the norm is to behave as if people around you, even people you live with, do not exist and there's an unspoken code that no one is owed warmth or acknowledgment

Considering people's general health is declining and they're becoming increasingly psychotic, I think there is something insidious about the many ways introversion is being encouraged. And cultivating introversion in people would put them on the fast-track to being effortlessly subdued with minimal resistance- a reclusive majority that has an obsession with their "me time" on the internet and has their reproductive needs completely satisfied by internet pornography is less likely to be exposed to information that hasn't been manipulated/filtered by the internet, will be less inclined to encounter differing or non-mainstream opinions and exchange ideas with others in private rather than on monitored apps, will not attempt to oppose or overthrow authority and will struggle to maintain a positive birth rate. The sheer amount of people I have encountered who proclaimed to me that lockdowns were a blessing in disguise for them because they were doing that already anyway because they're introverts is what set me off on this train of thought

This idea has been on my mind for a long time though and started forming in my head when I noticed that the worse my health got, the deeper my introversion became. I dreaded meeting with friends but once I did, I felt energised and my health was much improved after being social for a few hours.

 

[nomoreketones]

Hikikomori is not directly related to introversion.

Hikikomori is a behavior and introversion is a personality trait.

 

[YourUniverse]

Ya, probably correlated with less energy and more neurosis

 

[InChristAlone]

Hikikomori wouldn't exist if the Mother's didn't enable it. They allow their adult children to live with them. Men need rites of passage (ever known a wimpy military dude?) to become men and it's just not happening anymore due to coddling.

 

[toolhead]

Do you think the hikikomori levels of introversion demonstrated by the younger generations is indicative of a decline in health? On the one hand, achieving mastery over a subject or a skill requires many hours spent in solitude and reflective, analytical minds tend to favour isolation. However, I think introversion is innate to these people and they're naturally the minority within a population. I suspect the overwhelming number of self proclaimed introverts nowadays are simply people who lack the energetic resource to be social which entails a certain level of stress- the stress of encountering different opinions, exerting empathetic effort and entering unpredictable situations (an energy investment if you will that eventually pays off) or are crippled by anxiety- another mental disorder that has become ubiquitous. I have noticed people have become increasingly introverted and closed off with time - the norm is to behave as if people around you, even people you live with, do not exist and there's an unspoken code that no one is owed warmth or acknowledgment

Considering people's general health is declining and they're becoming increasingly psychotic, I think there is something insidious about the many ways introversion is being encouraged. And cultivating introversion in people would put them on the fast-track to being effortlessly subdued with minimal resistance- a reclusive majority that has an obsession with their "me time" on the internet and has their reproductive needs completely satisfied by internet pornography is less likely to be exposed to information that hasn't been manipulated/filtered by the internet, will be less inclined to encounter differing or non-mainstream opinions and exchange ideas with others in private rather than on monitored apps, will not attempt to oppose or overthrow authority and will struggle to maintain a positive birth rate. The sheer amount of people I have encountered who proclaimed to me that lockdowns were a blessing in disguise for them because they were doing that already anyway because they're introverts is what set me off on this train of thought

This idea has been on my mind for a long time though and started forming in my head when I noticed that the worse my health got, the deeper my introversion became. I dreaded meeting with friends but once I did, I felt energised and my health was much improved after being social for a few hours.

You should look into the works of Sam Vaknin. His YouTube analyses of the psycho dynamics of modern society are on point.

 

[TheCalciumCad]

Men need rites of passage (ever known a wimpy military dude?) to become men and it's just not happening anymore due to coddling.

The men who emerge in the coming years with their DNA in tact despite the biggest propaganda campaign the world has ever seen, who have to learned to provide for themselves outside of government restrictions, who stayed physically and mentally strong in spite of all this will be some men. That is their (and my) rite of passage.

 

[InChristAlone]

The men who emerge in the coming years with their DNA in tact despite the biggest propaganda campaign the world has ever seen, who have to learned to provide for themselves outside of government restrictions, who stayed physically and mentally strong in spite of all this will be some men. That is their (and my) rite of passage.

Yes!

 

[Sheik]

Hikikomori wouldn't exist if the Mother's didn't enable it. They allow their adult children to live with them. Men need rites of passage (ever known a wimpy military dude?) to become men and it's just not happening anymore due to coddling.

I think there's something missing here. I know men who were raised by cold, unaffectionate mothers but are needy, immature, and dysfunctional. That seems to be a common thing. It seems ideal to raise boys who are so strong, resilient, and spirited that they WANT to get out and make things happen, build a life.

It's probably similarly problematic for girls but manifests differently.

 

[InChristAlone]

I think there's something missing here. I know men who were raised by cold, unaffectionate mothers but are needy, immature, and dysfunctional. That seems to be a common thing. It seems ideal to raise boys who are so strong, resilient, and spirited that they WANT to get out and make things happen, build a life.

It's probably similarly problematic for girls but manifests differently.

That's the opposite extreme of coddling and isn't good either. We need to feel seen and heard by our parents particularly when we are young. And Mother's should be nurturing and guiding but around the age of 12-13 is when a boy starts to become a man and if he has already received the nurturing he doesn't need it anymore, he goes out and follows the men in his life on how to be a man.

 

[changeling188]

i have often thought along these lines. people often explain away dark spiritual affects in Japan like high suicide rates or isolation as part of their culture (whatever that means...) but to me it just seems like a more or less model for where other advanced economy societies are headed. Euthanasia in the Netherlands has seen people with eating disorders or botched sex-changes be euthanised on compassionate grounds, which goes along the metaphorical lines of giving up on a society that seems to hard to live in or too unlikely to individualise or succeed within.

From what i observe high-energy, high-metabolism people are not introverted. With an ideal state of health comes the urge to seek out new experiences and an innate sense of connection to your actual material environment. a decent amount of conversation and involvement with other people and with public life in general is necessary for this as far as i can tell.

I think the romanticised idea of a tortured genius or an artistic savant lends the impression that certain extreme behaviours are conducive to a ripe creative output, but this seems the exception to the rule or often the result of biographers exaggerating details to sell their books and ***t. In reality catching a train in which everyone deliberately avoids speaking to one another and avoids eye contact or touch in favour of politeness makes life feel extremely transient and hollow. There are many prodigious, talented people who are extremely social, stimulated and talkative and spend much of their time outside observing and participating in the world. It has a lot to do with the value judgements placed on what kinds of contributions to arts or sciences or technology are considered significant or the whole narrative of progress in and of itself.

to have to tell other people you are an introvert seems very twee and insecure. I don't know of a culture of introversion in places where the struggle for survival is still very material, and not abstract or based on one's own ego. Like in Africa for example, where social culture is far richer and more communication is done through speaking and gesture than through technological means. Living in Australia used to feel as such before people always had a phone on them, as we had a very rich outdoors culture of camping, fishing, beaches, surfing, partying etc. maybe vitamin d deficiency is a self-fulfilling isolation trap haha. cool post!

 

[Demyze]

Hikikomori wouldn't exist if the Mother's didn't enable it. They allow their adult children to live with them. Men need rites of passage (ever known a wimpy military dude?) to become men and it's just not happening anymore due to coddling.

Everyone in my age group who moved out had parents that purchased them a home or paid their rent for them. Most are living at home due to economics.

A lot of guys in the military or ex military are extremely fat and estrogenic. They mostly just sit around on base and play video games so government money can get shuffled around. A lot of them just sit in an office and blow up civilians with x box controlled drones. Most of them don't know how to do anything but take orders.

Have read up on ancient Sparta? I think you'd be really into it

 

[Amazoniac]

I don't know how exactly they try to rescue shutted-ins, but compassionate loser meetings with each sheepoid patting the other's back are a joke. What these sheeple need is something to be proud of, that they would want to be seen for, preferably with an inspiring model that can facilitate the process for them. I would identify their talents (many of them are good at drawing), connect them with the elite (mentors) and later with companies that are interested in what they do (example). This way hiding becomes senseless and worries must be weaker than the desire to show. The recovery should be spontaneous without having to deal with more embarassment and social defeat.

I don't know of a culture of introversion in places where the struggle for survival is still very material, and not abstract or based on one's own ego. Like in Africa for example, where social culture is far richer and more communication is done through speaking and gesture than through technological means. Living in Australia used to feel as such before people always had a phone on them, as we had a very rich outdoors culture of camping, fishing, beaches, surfing, partying etc.

Which country are you referring to, North or South Africa? Without being specific, it's akin to mentioning Korea.

 

[changeling188]

I don't know how exactly they try to rescue shutted-ins, but compassionate loser meetings with each sheepoid patting the other's back are a joke. What these sheeple need is something to be proud of, that they would want to be seen for, preferably with an inspiring model that can facilitate the process for them. I would identify their talents (many of them are good at drawing), connect them with the elite (mentors) and later with companies that are interested in what they do (example). This way hiding becomes senseless and worries must be weaker than the desire to show. The recovery should be spontaneous without having to deal with more embarassment and social defeat.


Which country are you referring to, North or South Africa? Without being specific, it's akin to mentioning Korea.

My implication is that so-called developing countries usually have less personal dependence on technology and more communication is done person to person. More facets of daily life are organised around shared experiences or are planned to be done together from working, cooking, trekking. Families are generally larger. More people are engaged in agriculture and subsistence than the provision of public services. The antithesis is a culture of convenience and solitary work and leisure.

This would be true of nearly every country in Africa so i didn't see the point of being overly specific when you can eliminate the exceptions yourself. I used Africa as an example because its nations generally represent less conventionally developed or progressive economic systems, and the structure of their society is oriented towards children and youth and not the middle-aged or elderly. It would be true in Mali or Chad as it would be true in Zambia or Mozambique, and more true in more rural areas away from pockets of wealth or westernised influence.

 

[looking2grow96]

...(ever known a wimpy military dude?) to become men and it's just not happening anymore due to coddling.

Yeah, tons lmao. Navy dudes buttfucking each other, lotta weird trannies. Also, being in the military demands an energy deficiency, as noted by the fact that 40% of all people in our armed forces are infertile.

 

[nomoreketones]

My implication is that so-called developing countries usually have less personal dependence on technology and more communication is done person to person.

In at least some 3rd world countries, texting on mobile phones was popular before it was in the United States. Many 3rd world countries did not have a good land line infrastructure so they went right to cell phone towers and mobile phones while in the United States it was a much slower process to get everyone to adopt mobile phones.

I will argue that cultural differences and not technology lead to more communication done person to person outside of western society as compared to inside western society. Of course, despite what some people say, Latin America is a part of Western Society ("Latin" in title) so maybe this is not the best category to use. I think people in Latin America are much better with interpersonal communication than people in the United States and Canada. No offense to the people of Guyana for leaving you out of this discussion.

 

[Amazoniac]

My implication is that so-called developing countries usually have less personal dependence on technology and more communication is done person to person. More facets of daily life are organised around shared experiences or are planned to be done together from working, cooking, trekking. Families are generally larger. More people are engaged in agriculture and subsistence than the provision of public services. The antithesis is a culture of convenience and solitary work and leisure.

This would be true of nearly every country in Africa so i didn't see the point of being overly specific when you can eliminate the exceptions yourself. I used Africa as an example because its nations generally represent less conventionally developed or progressive economic systems, and the structure of their society is oriented towards children and youth and not the middle-aged or elderly. It would be true in Mali or Chad as it would be true in Zambia or Mozambique, and more true in more rural areas away from pockets of wealth or westernised influence.

Yep, generalizable North Africa it is. However, I do agree that further specification is unnecessary, there's no need to look up its states, it's fine to not know them because not even residents do due to similarities.

 

[Stilgar]

I thought a huge part of introversion was lack of playmates of a similar age growing up. Ray has definitely mentioned that before. So whilst metabolic factors might help you feel more comfortably social or more verbally fluent, in my experience, that core personality trait of finding too much time with other people draining, has yet to 'resolve'.

Interesting that someone mentioned San Vaknin, because I think narcissism is quite different, but equally ingrained. It's how we grow up as children and the relationships we make and see during that time. Childhoods now are arguably more isolated, fragmented, unsupervised, unsupportive, internet-based and so on.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah, tons lmao. Navy dudes buttfucking each other, lotta weird trannies. Also, being in the military demands an energy deficiency, as noted by the fact that 40% of all people in our armed forces are infertile.

It was a bad example! Plus actually serving in war messes up men, lots of crappy things happen in the military. I think it comes down to a man finding his own purpose in life.

 

[DaveFoster]

The military might be the best example of maladaptive introversion: having to relate to others based on shared trauma, PTSD, violence and deference to an authority that's impersonal and has no individual head. It's similar to any kind of ideological collectivism, such as communists relating to each other as "comrade" despite having very little in common otherwise. The military would be an even worse example, though, because, whereas communism requires at least some academic exploration, the soldier's identity would be similar to being a communist in a communist country, which would be akin to just being a citizen. Even further, the expectation of military service as a hallmark of a "strong man" enforces the idea of elitism, and that military-men are better than those who do not seek to enlist, even if that enlistment requires no pre-requisites, minimal intelligence qualifications, few or no meaningful credentials, and maybe a lack of unjustifiable physical abnormalities. Indeed, it would be more likely that soldiers lack the necessary second-step critical thinking for them to join an organization as corrupt as the U.S. government willingly, or at least they have the means to entertain cognitive dissonance, both "serving their country," while not actually serving what their country does or has historically done.

I suppose disabling one's self and becoming a member of that community may count as extroversion in this kind of dialogue. It could open up so much opportunity for empathy and mutual suffering. Amputees at least get to park where they want.