Seriously Confused About CO2 After Reading Gbolduev's Thread

[gbolduev]

Look up Grof speaking. He is breathing normally. Hyperventilators are easy to recognize whne they speak and when they pause.

Grof uses holotropic breathing all the time. He is a slow oxidizer and hypoventilates as a base. Do you even understand what I write?
Crazy , people call you full of ***t and yet not able to comprehend simple things

I say that most people hypoventilate that is why they need to exercise more so they breathe faster.

You can do the same with holotropic breathing . This is what Grof has been doing all his life.

Some people hyperventilate and have low Co2 levels. but as you read in my thread the posts from MAttyB who works with respiration , those are the minority, I had exactly same tests in my practice, where low Co2 people were the minority.

 

[Xisca]

Ok, so he knows how to balance his original weakness.
By holotropic breathing.
Uf, learning a practical way!

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Grof uses holotropic breathing all the time. He is a slow oxidizer and hypoventilates as a base. Do you even understand what I write?
Crazy , people call you full of ***t and yet not able to comprehend simple things

He uses hyperventilation occasionally. He does not chronically hyperventilate. He does not spend every waking moment blowing out all his CO2.

 

[Xisca]

@gbolduev can you explain what I did not understand from your quotes, this is at the 1st page of this topic, thanks!

 

[gbolduev]

He uses hyperventilation occasionally. He does not chronically hyperventilate. He does not spend every waking moment blowing out all his CO2.

NO he does not. Why would he. he blows out certain amounts of CO2 daily. to help his metabolism. Chronically he hypoventilates not hypervenitales. This is why he is using holotropic breathing as a mean to get rid of some of this CO2.

More active life style does the same. Helps to get rid of CO2 from venous blood and allow to Co2 production raised in the cell.

For people who chronically hyperventilate obviously no holotropic breathing , but buteyko type of breathing could be an answer

|but these are the minority.

 

[Tarmander]

Do not fall into the trap, it is just to bring more adrenaline for people stuck in a chair!
Answer to the people who need help or ask questions.

Why are you quoting me from another thread and reposting charlie's message to stay on topic? I came into this thread to discuss the Co2 topic and see if we could rectify Peat and gbold, that was until you and gbold started moderating the conversation. Xisca, I know you are trying to get help for your dad, but you are not helping.

 

[gbolduev]

Why are you quoting me from another thread and reposting charlie's message to stay on topic? I came into this thread to discuss the Co2 topic and see if we could rectify Peat and gbold, that was until you and gbold started moderating the conversation. Xisca, I know you are trying to get help for your dad, but you are not helping.

OK, sorry, I will stay off this thread then .

 

[Xisca]

Please, posters who ask questions are less gratified than posters who argue!

If you dont move you dont activate your symathetic nervous system you breath slower. This causes Co2 retention and kreb cycle will be stoped to balance the PH.

What happens to people who do not move but activate their SNS with stress?
I am ignorant about what replaces the krebs cycle when it stops...

Why are you quoting me from another thread and reposting charlie's message to stay on topic? I came into this thread to discuss the Co2 topic and see if we could rectify Peat and gbold, that was until you and gbold started moderating the conversation. Xisca, I know you are trying to get help for your dad, but you are not helping.

I mentioned my dad only to stress that going off topic is childish because we are all here for serious reasons, and it is not fair to just want some exitement...

Those who do not help are the ones that went off topic.
You do not see all I quoted so that we can speak about CO2? I did help.

 

[Tarmander]

OK, sorry, I will stay off this thread then .

Do what you want

Please, posters who ask questions are less gratified than posters who argue!






I mentioned my dad only to stress that going off topic is childish because we are all here for serious reasons, and it is not fair to just want some exitement...

Those who do not help are the ones that went off topic.
You do not see all I quoted so that we can speak about CO2? I did help.

So wait, are you telling me to argue to be more gratified? I don't understand you half the time. There is a whole post called Gbolduev Q and A, go ask all the questions you want over there. Every thread that starts to discuss some of what gbold says should not be turned into this safe space zone for gbold where you can only ask questions so he doesn't storm out. He has interesting ideas, and I want to understand them and how they fit with Peat, and sometimes that looks like an argument.

 

[Xisca]

I say that most people hypoventilate that is why they need to exercise more so they breathe faster.
You can do the same with holotropic breathing . This is what Grof has been doing all his life.

Some people hyperventilate and have low Co2 levels. but as you read in my thread the posts from MAttyB who works with respiration , those are the minority, I had exactly same tests in my practice, where low Co2 people were the minority.

For people who chronically hyperventilate obviously no holotropic breathing , but buteyko type of breathing could be an answer |but these are the minority.

Thanks, this is part of what I asked quietly at the beginning.

Buteyko's exercices seem to work well for asthma.
Also he says diabetis.

-> Any common point between those 2 issues for the CO2 levels or acidity state?

So it works for some type of breathing, does it correlate to some health issues too?

 

[Xisca]

So wait, are you telling me to argue to be more gratified? I don't understand you half the time. There is a whole post called Gbolduev Q and A, go ask all the questions you want over there. Every thread that starts to discuss some of what gbold says should not be turned into this safe space zone for gbold where you can only ask questions so he doesn't storm out. He has interesting ideas, and I want to understand them and how they fit with Peat, and sometimes that looks like an argument.

No... I say that people who argue get more answers. An answer is a gratification.
Yes we need a safe zone to speak and understand.
I do understand the balance and most answers, but there are things I want details about, and I have the answer to a question I posted before just when people are arguing? Not the best IMO!

 

[paymanz]

One thing no one mentions is that ray actually has spoken about benefit of a proper type of workout and physical activity.

 

[Xisca]

One thing no one mentions is that ray actually has spoken about benefit of a proper type of workout and physical activity.

Good mention!
It would be good to know more what are the good type of exercise for what type of person.

I also asked something about this but with no answer. And many times the context is not mentionned. Also, talking about people doing too much of a certain type of exercise is not relevant to know if this type of activity is good or bad when done out of competition etc.

Is it possible to correct wrong understandings by arguing instead of explaining?

 

[paymanz]

You can't speak about co2 topic just by mentioning co2 in every sentence.

All of this comments above is related to OP confusion about ray's philosophy on co2.

 

[paymanz]

Good mention!
It would be good to know more what are the good type of exercise for what type of person.

I also asked something about this but with no answer.

Concentric exercise , under lactic acid threshold.

Many trainer who probably don't even know ray peat also rec to keep exercise intensity in a way that you still can speak while doing training.

 

[Xisca]

Concentric exercise , under lactic acid threshold.

I need examples, as I cannot understand those names concentric and excentric, I have tried before...
Sorry, I have a physical dyslexia, I mix opposites!

And for what type of person they are best?

What is the effect on CO2 levels?

Also, how to be sure to be under lactic acid threashold?

 

[Tarmander]

No... I say that people who argue get more answers. An answer is a gratification.
Yes we need a safe zone to speak and understand.
I do understand the balance and most answers, but there are things I want details about, and I have the answer to a question I posted before just when people are arguing? Not the best IMO!

I am still not following you, but if you could not quote me from another thread out of context, and then quote a moderation reminder from Charlie, implying that somehow it applies to me, that would be much appreciated.

I wonder if it's something like this :

• Ideally, the cells produce a good amount of CO2, and the CO2 streams out into the blood, where it releases oxygen to the local cells to support ongoing oxidation, and the blood carries it away for exhalation, maintaining a normal optimal level of venous CO2
• If the CO2 in the venous blood gets too high (hypoventilation, COPD etc), the cells slow down so as to not raise the CO2 too high. This is CO2 pushing the top of the normal range.
• If the metabolism slows too much for some reason so the cells are not producing much CO2, and the venous blood CO2 gets low (eg relative hyperventilation), then the oxygen can not be released adequately to the cells, so that oxidation cannot easily get going again in the cells. This is CO2 pushing the lower limit of normal - what Buteyko addressed with his method. Sometimes may be useful therapeuticallly in the short term to boost the CO2 levels with bag-breathing or dry CO2 bath or similar just to get the CO2 blood threshhold up to where oxygen can be supplied again, so oxidation can resume - if all the other prerequisites are also available in the cell.

If I've understood this, then I can't see where it contradicts gbolduev's account (or Buteyko's or Peat's).

The strange thing is, I have never heard Peat say that high venous CO2 is an indication that CO2 is not good for you. That is brand new. Basically Co2 has always been the more the merrier, and you would think if the body was lowering metabolism because of high venous Co2, Peat would say something. Have you ever seen him talk about ranges in Co2 and whether you are at the top or the bottom as an indication on what you should do?

 

[paymanz]

I need examples, as I cannot understand those names concentric and excentric, I have tried before...
Sorry, I have a physical dyslexia, I mix opposites!

And for what type of person they are best?

What is the effect on CO2 levels?

Also, how to be sure to be under lactic acid threashold?

Don't do it too high intensity that you go out of breath like you can't speak one sentence without problem.

And also don't do it when your glycogen stores are depleted.

Concentric is like hill climbing. Essentric is when you come of of hill.

Or when you lift up a weight that is concentric. And when you control weight to slowly lower it it is essentric.

 

[paymanz]

Exercise, like aging, obesity, and diabetes, increases the levels of circulating free fatty acids and lactate. But ordinary activity of an integral sort, activates the systems in an organized way, increasing carbon dioxide and circulation and efficiency

 

[Zpol]

This thread plus the others on the topic are all very helpful. And I think I understand the gist of it.
Bottom line, the endogenous CO2 created via proper cell respiration is what we are all looking for.

Similar to taking vitamins or supps to compensate for an issue, breathing methods do the same... They have a temporary effect, possibly side effects, and do not cure the upstream issue.

The Dangers & Benefits of Breathing
with Lucas Rockwood

This host does a great job at explaining when and which method can be useful in certain situations.
"What You’ll Learn:

• How breath can either up-regulate, down regulate, or balance your nervous system
• Why many schools of breathing mistakenly teach one method as “the” method when the right breath practice depends on you and your situation
• The dangers of using extreme breathing practices while bathing, swimming or even while driving
• The differences between Wim Hof breath, Buteyko, most yogic breathing, and HRV balancing breath"