Saturated vs Unsaturated Fat | Eat or Avoid?

[No_Energy]

Do you guys find it troubling that even on the basic stuff, there is still so much doubt, discussion and uncertainty?
Believe or agree with Ray or whathever you like, but, still, for years, and still, so many reviews, and consensus in the scientific community is that Polyunsaturated fats are better and should be favored instead of saturated fat in regards to heart health and cardivascular disease.
Of course here at Raypeatforum the consensus is obviously the contrary.
Still, it remains, what most systematic reviews and the scientific consensus say. Also what the medical assossiations recommend

What do you guys make of this?

*: Let's hear what forum users have to say

​

Saturated vs Unsaturated Fat | Eat or Avoid?​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GM6ObTo30M

 

[kimbriel]

Being that those recommendations are based on myths about cholesterol, no. Doctors as a whole are incredibly uncurious and unquestioning.

Studies also don't bear out their recommendations.

 

[No_Energy]

Being that those recommendations are based on myths about cholesterol, no. Doctors as a whole are incredibly uncurious and unquestioning.

Studies also don't bear out their recommendations.

Hi @kimbriel. Thanks for your contribution. I'm certainly no specialist in all the scientific data and literature, but It seems not all studies look only at markers and cholesterol levels, but also events, right?

 

[CastorTroy]

I think best is to avoid oils in the first place. Natural whole foods are preferable to industrial processed ones like extracted oils. This includes coconut oil. I would go with coconut meat, avocado, whole milk or eggs, rather than with any oil.

 

[TheSir]

Being that those recommendations are based on myths about cholesterol, no

While it is becoming common knowledge that dietary cholesterol doesn't affect blood cholesterol, saturated fat is more than cholesterol and something in it is nevertheless affecting blood cholesterol negatively in many people.

 

[charlie]

I think best is to avoid oils in the first place. Natural whole foods are preferable to industrial processed ones like extracted oils. This includes coconut oil

Exactly.

 

[Peatful]

Do you guys find it troubling that even on the basic stuff, there is still so much doubt, discussion and uncertainty?
Believe or agree with Ray or whathever you like, but, still, for years, and still, so many reviews, and consensus in the scientific community is that Polyunsaturated fats are better and should be favored instead of saturated fat in regards to heart health and cardivascular disease.
Of course here at Raypeatforum the consensus is obviously the contrary.
Still, it remains, what most systematic reviews and the scientific consensus say. Also what the medical assossiations recommend

What do you guys make of this?

*: Let's hear what forum users have to say

​

Saturated vs Unsaturated Fat | Eat or Avoid?​

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GM6ObTo30M

I am not troubled by this


If eating this way made me feel better and brought me health
I would eat this way
Regardless of what anyone said

But it doesn’t agree with me
And brings me symptomatic ill health

Experiment yourself
Eat what suits you

People on this forum eat nuts and beans and stuff that Peat has made statements “against”

Eat and enjoy and observe

 

[kimbriel]

While it is becoming common knowledge that dietary cholesterol doesn't affect blood cholesterol, saturated fat is more than cholesterol and something in it is nevertheless affecting blood cholesterol negatively in many people.

It's not just dietary cholesterol they have wrong but the whole idea of blood cholesterol and what it means. Actually very low blood cholesterol is more dangerous than high blood cholesterol.

Saturated fats affect people poorly because of their damaged overall metabolic health, and then in combination with high sugar. Most people will then remove sugar or saturated fat from the diet (a bandaid), rather than attempt to fix metabolic health. It's true that before you have healed eating that combination, especially in excess, might yield poor results.

 

[No_Energy]

I am not troubled by this


If eating this way made me feel better and brought me health
I would eat this way
Regardless of what anyone said

But it doesn’t agree with me
And brings me symptomatic ill health

Experiment yourself
Eat what suits you

People on this forum eat nuts and beans and stuff that Peat has made statements “against”

Eat and enjoy and observe

Hi @Peatful, thanks for the contribution,

By "But it doesn’t agree with me", Do you mean that, you consume saturated fats and don't consume pufas? or , that you do consume pufas, and avoid the saturated fats?

Thanks.

 

[Peatful]

Hi @Peatful, thanks for the contribution,

By "But it doesn’t agree with me", Do you mean that, you consume saturated fats and don't consume pufas? or , that you do consume pufas, and avoid the saturated fats?

Thanks.

Hello

PUFA doesn’t agree with my palate
Or digestion
Just feel like it is inflammatory overall

Im fine with butter
Actually feels therapeutic or medicinal

So
I avoid PUFA oils
I don’t even consider them a food
Just industrial “waste”

I don’t shy away from MUFA
I don’t choose it
But won’t refuse it either
Doesn’t feel inflammatory to me….

Thx for letting me clarify

 

[No_Energy]

.

 

[No_Energy]

Hello

PUFA doesn’t agree with my palate
Or digestion
Just feel like it is inflammatory overall

Im fine with butter
Actually feels therapeutic or medicinal

So
I avoid PUFA oils
I don’t even consider them a food
Just industrial “waste”

I don’t shy away from MUFA
I don’t choose it
But won’t refuse it either
Doesn’t feel inflammatory to me….

Thx for letting me clarify

@Peatful , Thanks for your clarification,

If I may ask something else, since you seem to have some experience and awareness of how foods affect you, How about grains or well cooked legumes things like, lentils, chickpeas, beans, oats , do you feel ok eating them? they do have a little pufa, but not too much , What about other natural foods that have a higher pufa content, like fish, or nuts, that can taste good sometimes, like peanuts, almonds,cashew nuts, etc.. Are you fine eating legumes, fish and nuts?

Hopefully I’m not asking or bothering too much,
Thank you!

 

[Peatful]

@Peatful , Thanks for your clarification,

If I may ask something else, since you seem to have some experience and awareness of how foods affect you, How about grains or well cooked legumes things like, lentils, chickpeas, beans, oats , do you feel ok eating them? they do have a little pufa, but not too much , What about other natural foods that have a higher pufa content, like fish, or nuts, that can taste good sometimes, like peanuts, almonds,cashew nuts, etc.. Are you fine eating legumes, fish and nuts?

Hopefully I’m not asking or bothering too much,
Thank you!

No
You’re fine

Im at work so I don’t have much time

But
No
I don’t eat nuts
I do however like hummus
A mufa I suppose

I adore eggs
Some call them high pufa?
It’s natural
It’s whole
Im cool


So
I define “fine” with how it tastes and how I respond

Early on I took my temperature after each meal
Very good thing for me to do
When I ate pufa
My temps wouldn’t rise generally speaking


Ok
Hope that is helpful

 

[tasfarelel]

To be honest @No_Energy, earing PUFA or not eating is such a crucial decision for your life that you just cannot leave other people make this decision for you (no Ray Peat, no knowledgeable forum member, no physician that you trust). And whatever you decide to do - you will never know at the end of your life if it helped or didn't.

So read all science related to this topic, start with the science done in the early 1900 when the ideas of essentially of fats came up. And look up all more recent studies, up to the 1990 in animals (I've read also relevant studies in horses). After that you should have a sense of potential biases in research and read all the rest with care.

 

[Sitaruîm]

To be honest @No_Energy, earing PUFA or not eating is such a crucial decision for your life that you just cannot leave other people make this decision for you (no Ray Peat, no knowledgeable forum member, no physician that you trust). And whatever you decide to do - you will never know at the end of your life if it helped or didn't.

So read all science related to this topic, start with the science done in the early 1900 when the ideas of essentially of fats came up. And look up all more recent studies, up to the 1990 in animals (I've read also relevant studies in horses). After that you should have a sense of potential biases in research and read all the rest with care.

I'd be interested to hear your own personal conclusions from reading all that research

 

[tasfarelel]

I can tell my opinion as a young, not entirely established researcher (h-index=32, i-10=53):

I am fully convinced that the "essentially" of omega-6 or omega-3 was never proven. Ray Peat, Haidut, and others in this forum have pointed to biases in all studies that attempted to do so. So far, I think they are correct. Then, I could find myself many studies showing improved (in general mitochondral) metabolism when only saturated fats are available.

However, I know from other research that biology is never back and white. So while its appealing to think that removing PUFA is a all-in-one solution, it my turn out not entirely true some day.

Therefore, for myself, I made the decision to live without omega-6 ~10years and and finally removed omega-3 ~2years ago. I feel great without any PUFAs and eat also very low fat in addition. But I have no idea if I would feel different with PUFAs when having Thyroid and other beneficial supplements in check

 

[geusterman]

Kimbriel has it right from my experience. We figured out in the late 90's (as health club owners and trainers), the AHA was myopic regarding fats, especially saturated. Their "cure" was a big increase in grains and sugars. We personally began to increase our fats especially saturated and natural source fats up to 70% of our total calories often. This was brave for me as my lipid profile was screaming "statins" yet no issues or profile changes happened. Time-restricted eating did improve the whole blood test results however. I am an exerciser, just maintenence and have for 40 years. A calcium score of my heart arteries was zero last year (to appease a rabid MD regarding statins, which ended the conversation). Do some do well on very low fat diets regarding heart disease? Yes. I do believe the plaque in CAD is from inflammation of the artery walls from a variety of causes including metabolic disease. Anecdotal but for real.

 

[mostlylurking]

Do you guys find it troubling that even on the basic stuff, there is still so much doubt, discussion and uncertainty?
Believe or agree with Ray or whathever you like, but, still, for years, and still, so many reviews, and consensus in the scientific community is that Polyunsaturated fats are better and should be favored instead of saturated fat in regards to heart health and cardivascular disease.
Of course here at Raypeatforum the consensus is obviously the contrary.
Still, it remains, what most systematic reviews and the scientific consensus say. Also what the medical assossiations recommend

What do you guys make of this?

I believe that the medical industry is in partnership with the power elite to thin the herd. It is the only thing that makes sense to me because the evidence clearly points, over and over again, that the official advice from the medical industrial complex on many topics is dangerous to your health. They simply cannot consistently be that stupid. Therefore, I believe it is intentional.

Examples:
1. In the U.S., the official rules for medication for hypothyroidism is that it must not contain any T3. In 2020 I had a GP refuse to take me as a patient because my endocrinologist has me on NP Thyroid (desiccated thyroid med).
2. In the U.S., the only dental fillings that Medicaid and also Medicare dental will pay for are mercury amalgams. They will not pay for composite fillings.
3. The knowledge common in the 1930's that cholesterol increases because of hypothyroidism and goes down with thyroid hormone supplementation has been forgotten; it is no longer taught in medical schools. Statins are the name of the game now, even though (or because) they are dangerous.
4. The ridiculous war on saturated fats that has successfully banished all fats but PUFA in restaurants. I gave up eating out years ago because my survival requires that I avoid PUFA.

I could go on, but you get the point.

 

[kimbriel]

I agree with mostlylurking. I think most doctors mean well, but they don't have a clue, and aren't open minded enough to learn. If you want to end up fat, sick, and nearly dead, by all means, listen to doctors.

 

[TheSir]

It's not just dietary cholesterol they have wrong but the whole idea of blood cholesterol and what it means. Actually very low blood cholesterol is more dangerous than high blood cholesterol.

Saturated fats affect people poorly because of their damaged overall metabolic health, and then in combination with high sugar. Most people will then remove sugar or saturated fat from the diet (a bandaid), rather than attempt to fix metabolic health. It's true that before you have healed eating that combination, especially in excess, might yield poor results.

Well, both extemes are deadly for different reasons. It's interesting though that about 50% of those who get a heart attack have optimal cholesterol levels. Rather than this being taken as a hint for something else being behind heart disease than cholesterol, it's been concluded that even stricter optimal value ranges are needed. Seems strange.