Pansterone - Liquid Pregnenolone/DHEA Mix

[haidut]

Which supplements or combo/stack of supplements do you recommend for maximizing androgen state as much as possible?

The thread on scrotal application answers this pretty well. Pansterone, androsterone, and vitamin K. You can try Gonadin on alternate weeks to see if it can offer something above and beyond this combo.
There is no ideal dosage that would apply to everyone, so experiment is your friend.

 

[haidut]

Sorry if this has been asked before,

But is there any particular care a type 2 insulin/metformin using diabetic should take, whilst experimenting with this?

Thank You

Not that I know of, but please ask a doctor as well. Both pregnenolone and DHEA can drop blood sugar so you may want to be monitor it pretty carefully after using to see if it causes any sudden drops.

 

[A.R]

Not that I know of, but please ask a doctor as well. Both pregnenolone and DHEA can drop blood sugar so you may want to be monitor it pretty carefully after using to see if it causes any sudden drops.

Ok thanks

 

[PUTFOT]

The thread on scrotal application answers this pretty well. Pansterone, androsterone, and vitamin K. You can try Gonadin on alternate weeks to see if it can offer something above and beyond this combo.
There is no ideal dosage that would apply to everyone, so experiment is your friend.

What about pansterone, androsterone, 11 keto, gonadin, vit k, tyromax, and a serotonin antagonist (believe heard it from you that serotonin antagonism increases test). Should I add anything else?

 

[japanesedude]

Which supplements or combo/stack of supplements do you recommend for maximizing androgen state as much as possible?

Pansterone+Androsterone would be the best combo to maximize androgen level.
but Im also interested about Gonadin,Progestene, and Estroban.

Sorry if this has been asked before,

But is there any particular care a type 2 insulin/metformin using diabetic should take, whilst experimenting with this?

Thank You

Pansterone seem to lower my blood sugar.
If I take it without meals, I feel lethargy, get breathlessness and headache.

 

[Jsaute21]

I guess you can try doing a small scale experiment with saliva testing. Here is one test I found that may do the trick.
Amazon.com: Access Saliva 11 Key Hormone Kit: Health & Personal Care
I am not affiliated with the vendor and do not get any royalties from that test above. Other vendors like ZRT probably offer the same tests. But this one had all the ones I wanted to test and was the cheapest. I think for steroid testing, saliva results may give some good bang for the buck as they show tissue levels and can detect changes as early as 30min after trying a supplement. If somebody knows of cheaper saliva testing vendors please share. I would like to try them all and compare results.

@haidut i ordered this test, and am looking forward to the results. I noticed a post you made on KETO DHT thread with regards to slashing your estrogen levels. How did you feel with low E2? Last time i got a hormone test, my E was very low and my OCD was a bit unbearable.

However, i have since learned that serum & tissue androgens are very different animals.

 

[haidut]

@haidut i ordered this test, and am looking forward to the results. I noticed a post you made on KETO DHT thread with regards to slashing your estrogen levels. How did you feel with low E2? Last time i got a hormone test, my E was very low and my OCD was a bit unbearable.

However, i have since learned that serum & tissue androgens are very different animals.

My estrogen is now close to the lower bound of normal. I can use a lot of 11-keto DHT without issues like joint pain if I add just a little DHEA. I doubt that small amount of DHEA raises estrogen, so it's probably some activity that aromatizable steroids have that estrogen also has but estrogen is a bad substitute. Kind of like an emergency substitute if things like T, DHEA, progesterone are not available. So, as long as there is enough T, DHEA, progesterone flowting around I don't think even high doses strong androgens cause issues even if estrogen tanks.

 

[Jsaute21]

My estrogen is now close to the lower bound of normal. I can use a lot of 11-keto DHT without issues like joint pain if I add just a little DHEA. I doubt that small amount of DHEA raises estrogen, so it's probably some activity that aromatizable steroids have that estrogen also has but estrogen is a bad substitute. Kind of like an emergency substitute if things like T, DHEA, progesterone are not available. So, as long as there is enough T, DHEA, progesterone flowting around I don't think even high doses strong androgens cause issues even if estrogen tanks.

Thanks for the confirmation. Low e2 is an interesting debate. I know Peat warns against low serum estrogen, thats why i am eager to see what the estrone # comes back as. A specific question that i have that may seem amateur to someone with your knowledge is: if someone has decently high Testosterone (700+) it must be either aromatized into either DHT or Estrogen correct? Therefore, if one has high DHT, conclusively he must have somewhat low estrogen.

 

[haidut]

Thanks for the confirmation. Low e2 is an interesting debate. I know Peat warns against low serum estrogen, thats why i am eager to see what the estrone # comes back as. A specific question that i have that may seem amateur to someone with your knowledge is: if someone has decently high Testosterone (700+) it must be either aromatized into either DHT or Estrogen correct? Therefore, if one has high DHT, conclusively he must have somewhat low estrogen.

Not always. T can be glucuronidated and excreted directly. So, high T does not have to go to wither E or DHT, it can stay as high T or go back to androstenedione or get excreted. And there are maybe metabolites of T we don't even know about.

 

[japanesedude]

@haidut When I use idealab products(dropper) , I will immerse the dripper in hot water for about 10 seconds.then shake it right to left quickly.
it makes easier to 'drop' the liquid.
Is is fine to do this?

 

[haidut]

@haidut When I use idealab products(dropper) , I will immerse the dripper in hot water for about 10 seconds.then shake it right to left quickly.
it makes easier to 'drop' the liquid.
Is is fine to do this?

Sure, warm or even hot water should not do damage to the dropper.

 

[Peata]

As an update, I had to stop Pansterone. My estrogen symptoms came back really hard and the other symptoms I was taking it for, such as fatigue, came back. I don't know if something in it converted to estrogen or if my progesterone was just too low at that point. Anyway, am just using progesterone now and things seem ok.

For anyone interested - another update:

I was getting all the exhaustion/fatigue symptoms like before since I went off the Pansterone. These symptoms were ruining my life again: basically after work I couldn't leave the couch or think very well. Also that weird tingliness/electric feel, some water retention, and lots of thirst. I wasn't getting as achey however. But I'd had enough, so I went back on Pansterone, very low dose. 1 drop per day. Didn't seem to do anything, so I kept increasing it and checking progress. No progress on low doses, but a little over a week into it, I was up to 5 drops a day (divided) and it started working just as good as before. I was tired after work, sure, but I had energy to actually do other stuff. I could cook, work on stuff, go places. My brain isn't muddled. I didn't get excessive thirst or weird sensations, didn't feel like a lead weight on the couch all evening. Skin is looking nicer again, not breaking out in the cysts like it was doing before. Obviously, I need some dhea.

Here's my review of what Pansterone did for me when I was on it for months: Pansterone - Liquid Dietary Supplement For Rejuvenation

After it apparently stopped working, I took a break from pansterone for something like 5 weeks. I used a progesterone cream during that time. Progesterone by itself didn't seem to help any symptoms other than I would feel fairly calm after using a large dose and it seems to reduce pain where I applied it (like directly onto sore breasts), though the pain reduction would wear off.

I'm still intending to keep using progesterone since it's good for me anyway, but have decided to cycle Pansterone in some way. This is some info haidut gave me on cycling it:

Peat has said hormones need to be cycled as the liver gets efficient at excreting them and eventually people do not feel much of an effect. So, I think maybe using every other day would prevent that need for taking time off. If you feel like the effects are waning again, I would take 1-2 days off and then resume using every other day.

 

[Peata]

Also on the dropper issue, I couldn't get any single drops out of my newest bottle. If any squeezed out, it was way too much and wasted it. Then it started not giving me even one drop no matter what. I tried enlarging the opening but it didn't work. So my solution was to snap off the dropper tops of the bottle (they come off), along with the last bottle I used that worked well and still had some Pansterone in it. I simply poured from the useless bottle into the old one and snapped the dropper in place, and good to go.

 

[japanesedude]

DHEA can compete against lethargy, some anabolic steroid users are use it during the cycle.
I was using 50mg oral DHEA before, then I quit it, I get brain fog and lethargy about 2+ weeks.
s

 

[HDD]

@haidut My husband has a lot of pain in his upper thigh. He is 62, surfs frequently, and works on his feet using heavy tools walking back and forth. It had become a habit to ingest a lot of ibuprofen, but even with that, the pain becomes intolerable. He says it feels like he's being stabbed with a knife (not that he has). He has never suffered an injury to this area and says it feels better if he rides a bike before surfing or work. He has recently started applying Progest-e to the area and also Pansterone. This seems to be helping. My questions are 1) is DHEA helpful in this situation (I thought I read Peat recommending it but I don't recall which interview) 2) do you think Progestene would work better due to the DSMO 3) is there a recommended dosage for DHEA, pregnenolone, or progesterone for pain, or should he just observe the maximum recommended dosage for dhea?

 

[haidut]

@haidut My husband has a lot of pain in his upper thigh. He is 62, surfs frequently, and works on his feet using heavy tools walking back and forth. It had become a habit to ingest a lot of ibuprofen, but even with that, the pain becomes intolerable. He says it feels like he's being stabbed with a knife (not that he has). He has never suffered an injury to this area and says it feels better if he rides a bike before surfing or work. He has recently started applying Progest-e to the area and also Pansterone. This seems to be helping. My questions are 1) is DHEA helpful in this situation (I thought I read Peat recommending it but I don't recall which interview) 2) do you think Progestene would work better due to the DSMO 3) is there a recommended dosage for DHEA, pregnenolone, or progesterone for pain, or should he just observe the maximum recommended dosage for dhea?

I think it depends on the reason for the pain. If it is bone related, then vitamin K, vitamin D, progesterone, and DHEA would be the main things I would try but even for soft tissue pain due to inflammation those would be good options. The dose of DHEA would depend on his blood levels and unless his levels are really low I think as little as 5mg applied to the painful area would be enough. And I would certainly mention to him that ibuprofen is not a benign drug at all. It is about to get a black box warning from the FDA due to causing serious heart issues. Higher dose pregnenolone has been found to work as an anti-inflammatory and is probably much safer.
NSAID Other Than Aspirin Strongly Increase Risk Of Cardiac Arrest, Heart Failure, And Stroke
Pregnenolone (and DHEA) May Protect From Heart Disease

 

[HDD]

I think it depends on the reason for the pain. If it is bone related, then vitamin K, vitamin D, progesterone, and DHEA would be the main things I would try but even for soft tissue pain due to inflammation those would be good options. The dose of DHEA would depend on his blood levels and unless his levels are really low I think as little as 5mg applied to the painful area would be enough. And I would certainly mention to him that ibuprofen is not a benign drug at all. It is about to get a black box warning from the FDA due to causing serious heart issues. Higher dose pregnenolone has been found to work as an anti-inflammatory and is probably much safer.
NSAID Other Than Aspirin Strongly Increase Risk Of Cardiac Arrest, Heart Failure, And Stroke
Pregnenolone (and DHEA) May Protect From Heart Disease

Thanks @haidut. I don't think it is bone but he has started supplementing vitamin K and vitamin D. I showed him that article you had posted recently and finally convinced him to stop the ibuprofen and try Aleve, since he says aspirin doesn't work. I thought Aleve was ok?

 

[dand]

FYI, for anybody wondering. Haidut has in the past made mention of dhea and therefore pansterone increasing penis size and breast size and I can verify this to be the case. I have a number of friends reporting back to me on both fronts :). Eat, sleep, rave(ray) Peat :)

 

[haidut]

Thanks @haidut. I don't think it is bone but he has started supplementing vitamin K and vitamin D. I showed him that article you had posted recently and finally convinced him to stop the ibuprofen and try Aleve, since he says aspirin doesn't work. I thought Aleve was ok?

I am afraid all NSAIDs except aspirin are suspect. The study above covers all of them and they all have the same side effects on the heart. Coconut oil, magnesium, and glycine would be the safe anti-inflammatories if he is not willing to try steroids like pregnenolone.

 

[haidut]

FYI, for anybody wondering. Haidut has in the past made mention of dhea and therefore pansterone increasing penis size and breast size and I can verify this to be the case. I have a number of friends reporting back to me on both fronts :). Eat, sleep, rave(ray) Peat :)

Yay, the law of unintended consequences :)
Thanks, this is great news! And it matches this findings of this study.
Topical DHEA Increases Breast Size In Females