Out of breath - ALWAYS

[PeterSN]

It took me some time to read your lab results from october because I dont know what language it was in. But your MCV was low and your RBC count was elevated. RBC count elevates due to low oxygen levels to compensate. Low MCV is usually iron deficiency anemia which explains all your symptoms. Low iron will also compromise energy production. You probably need iron. This is why you are severely intolerant to exercise and even have breathlessness being sedentary working at a computer. Low iron will lead to poor oxygenation and low ATP. Its not a gut issue, you need iron.

I do have chronic bloating though, only when I fast do I have no bloating, and my stools are very hard. I have joint pain and muscle aches everywhere, i have yeast infections in my groin and I cannot tolerate sugar at all. Maybe the anemia is caused by SIBO or SIFO messing up my intrinsic factor in my gut, therefore making me b12 anemi

 

[PeterSN]

It took me some time to read your lab results from october because I dont know what language it was in. But your MCV was low and your RBC count was elevated. RBC count elevates due to low oxygen levels to compensate. Low MCV is usually iron deficiency anemia which explains all your symptoms. Low iron will also compromise energy production. You probably need iron. This is why you are severely intolerant to exercise and even have breathlessness being sedentary working at a computer. Low iron will lead to poor oxygenation and low ATP. Its not a gut issue, you need iron.

Could sibi or sifo cause the anemia through b12 deficiency?

 

[redsun]

I do have chronic bloating though, only when I fast do I have no bloating, and my stools are very hard. I have joint pain and muscle aches everywhere, i have yeast infections in my groin and I cannot tolerate sugar at all. Maybe the anemia is caused by SIBO or SIFO messing up my intrinsic factor in my gut, therefore making me b12 anemi

That would not cause your anemia symptoms. Lack of iron can also contribute to joint and muscle aches. You don't have B12 deficiency anemia based on your results, low MCV is iron deficiency. You are overcomplicating this. You need iron, not B12.

What foods do you typically eat?

Low iron may predispose you to yeast infection.

IRON DEFICIENCY PREDISPOSES TO ORAL MUCOSA ALTERATIONS AND CANDIDA INFECTION

Iron deficiency (ID) is the most common nutritional deficiency, but its diagnosis is not always easy. We investigate patients with oral mucosa alterna…

www.sciencedirect.com

Your history of running long distances probably greatly contributed to your development of anemia due to loss of iron from footstrike hemolysis as well as increased iron loss from sweat.

 

[PeterSN]

That would not cause your anemia symptoms. Lack of iron can also contribute to joint and muscle aches. You don't have B12 deficiency anemia based on your results, low MCV is iron deficiency. You are overcomplicating this. You need iron, not B12.

What foods do you typically eat?

Low iron may predispose you to yeast infection.

IRON DEFICIENCY PREDISPOSES TO ORAL MUCOSA ALTERATIONS AND CANDIDA INFECTION

Iron deficiency (ID) is the most common nutritional deficiency, but its diagnosis is not always easy. We investigate patients with oral mucosa alterna…

www.sciencedirect.com

Your history of running long distances probably greatly contributed to your development of anemia due to loss of iron from footstrike hemolysis as well as increased iron loss from sweat.

I do eat alot of meat, mince meat around 500g per day, but recently I haven't been eating that much meat. Maybe it's an iron absorption issue?

 

[redsun]

I do eat alot of meat, mince meat around 500g per day, but recently I haven't been eating that much meat. Maybe it's an iron absorption issue?

It is difficult to relieve iron deficiency from food alone especially if the diet is high in dairy because calcium strongly blocks iron absorption. Even if it wasn't you still cannot absorb that much and even if the diet was exactly right it would take an unreasonable amount of time. This is why iron supplements are used and preferably on an empty stomach such as in the morning so there is no other minerals or chemicals in foods to block iron absorption. Your symptoms are not going to go away until you fix this.

 

[PeterSN]

It is difficult to relieve iron deficiency from food alone especially if the diet is high in dairy because calcium strongly blocks iron absorption. Even if it wasn't you still cannot absorb that much and even if the diet was exactly right it would take an unreasonable amount of time. This is why iron supplements are used and preferably on an empty stomach such as in the morning so there is no other minerals or chemicals in foods to block iron absorption. Your symptoms are not going to go away until you fix this.

Damn that makes a lot of sense, when I eat cheese my joint pain and bresthlessness does get worse

 

[redsun]

Damn that makes a lot of sense, when I eat cheese my joint pain and bresthlessness does get worse

Its not like cheese is taking iron out your body but whatever iron is in your meal gets even harder to absorb than it already is. Thorne has a good iron bisglycinate supplement on amazon. That form of iron minimizes GI effects and it gave me almost no GI side effects when I had to take it. I took 2 a day in the morning when I woke up until I used it all. After just a week I noticed I breathe better and wasn't out of breath all the time but it took a few more weeks to noticed major improvement back to feeling normal.

 

[PeterSN]

Its not like cheese is taking iron out your body but whatever iron is in your meal gets even harder to absorb than it already is. Thorne has a good iron bisglycinate supplement on amazon. That form of iron minimizes GI effects and it gave me almost no GI side effects when I had to take it. I took 2 a day in the morning when I woke up until I used it all. After just a week I noticed I breathe better and wasn't out of breath all the time but it took a few more weeks to noticed major improvement back to feeling normal.

Its not like cheese is taking iron out your body but whatever iron is in your meal gets even harder to absorb than it already is. Thorne has a good iron bisglycinate supplement on amazon. That form of iron minimizes GI effects and it gave me almost no GI side effects when I had to take it. I took 2 a day in the morning when I woke up until I used it all. After just a week I noticed I breathe better and wasn't out of breath all the time but it took a few more weeks to noticed major improvement back to feeling normal.

I did here tho that iron deficiency might not be the true root cause, there are some people like ray who say that the liver slows down and doesn't produce enough ferritin, storing iron in the liver, but not transporting it to the tissues, I have very low cholesterol, which could indicate liver damage, causing low ferritin possibly?

 

[redsun]

I did here tho that iron deficiency might not be the true root cause, there are some people like ray who say that the liver slows down and doesn't produce enough ferritin, storing iron in the liver, but not transporting it to the tissues, I have very low cholesterol, which could indicate liver damage, causing low ferritin possibly?

Iron can only be stored as ferritin and is transported by transferrin. The liver cannot store iron except as ferritin. Your ID anemia means iron stores are depleted and you dont even have enough iron to have normal sized RBC. Low mcv means you have microcytic anemia, meaning your RBC are too small. Again you are overcomplicating this because this forum has made you unnecessarily hesistant to take an essential trace mineral even when your labs show you need it.

Your past history of excessive exercising, footstrike hemolysis, high calcium intake, is the root cause of your iron deficiency if you really want to go there. You need iron, there is no way around it. If you want to feel basically normal within a few weeks and not feel so out of breath all the time, I suggest you follow suit and take what you actually need.

 

[PeterSN]

Iron can only be stored as ferritin and is transported by transferrin. The liver cannot store iron except as ferritin. Your ID anemia means iron stores are depleted and you dont even have enough iron to have normal sized RBC. Low mcv means you have microcytic anemia, meaning your RBC are too small. Again you are overcomplicating this because this forum has made you unnecessarily hesistant to take an essential trace mineral even when your labs show you need it.

Your past history of excessive exercising, footstrike hemolysis, high calcium intake, is the root cause of your iron deficiency if you really want to go there. You need iron, there is no way around it. If you want to feel basically normal within a few weeks and not feel so out of breath all the time, I suggest you follow suit and take what you actually need.

I'll order the iron supplements from Thorne and report back in a week or 2

 

[redsun]

I'll order the iron supplements from Thorne and report back in a week or 2

Sounds good. Just keep in mind its best absorbed alone at least half an hour before a meal.

 

[bornamachine]

@redsun great observation!

 

[bornamachine]

I do take aspirin daily. Never tried or heard of the herbs.

Last year I went on an 'aspirin experiment' for about a month I too 200-300mg a day, with food, 2-3 times a day at roughly 80-100mg.

I noticed my energy and everything increased, also my usual 36.6c temp went to 37.0 all day long.

The I started to noticed a weird side effect where I would strangely run out of breath mid talking to someone or going up a flight of stairs, something I DID not have before, I ignored it.

Around Thanksgiving last year our whole family went through a fever and so did I, I ran a fever for a couple days and then slept with an open window.

Next couple of days my lungs became inflamed and breathing became difficult, 7 days into this fever and hearing bubbles in my lungs, at about day 9 I was admitted to the ICU and the only thing that saved me was a nurse that made me sleep on my stomach so my lungs drained, otherwise I was tops 2 days away from the tubes being stuck in my throat and death.

Durning my stay there I was also sneaking a bit of aspirin here and there.

When was finally released it was a slow recovery and I still took a bit of aspirin here and there

Then I shared my story here and one membered chimed in " Aspirin can cause blank blank pneumonia" I forgot what the blank part of the word is.

That's when things clicked in my mind and I understood what caused my pneumonia that nearly killed me.

 

[iLoveSugar]

It took me some time to read your lab results from october because I dont know what language it was in. But your MCV was low and your RBC count was elevated. RBC count elevates due to low oxygen levels to compensate. Low MCV is usually iron deficiency anemia which explains all your symptoms. Low iron will also compromise energy production. You probably need iron. This is why you are severely intolerant to exercise and even have breathlessness being sedentary working at a computer. Low iron will lead to poor oxygenation and low ATP. Its not a gut issue, you need iron.

Does Ray Peat ever talk about scenarios where we need iron? I've always seen the contrary!

 

[redsun]

Does Ray Peat ever talk about scenarios where we need iron? I've always seen the contrary!

If you have tests showing low iron that means you need it. Iron deficiency also lowers T3 levels. There's clear research showing this. Because Ray repeatedly talks about the dangers of iron excess many translate this to iron is always bad and you should never take it. But if you are deficient, excess is not an immediate concern. There are quite a few old threads about this debate you can look through. Its been an issue here for awhile that comes up every so often.

 

[gabys225]

Thanks @redsun . Good unbiased thinking, I'm always guilty of being in the "omg iron is bad" crowd so your comments are refreshing. I am a serial blood donator and have had similar issues. I always automatically think "no way you have tons of iron stored up, impossible that you need iron, iron is in everything etc".

@PeterSN Please don't forget to chime back in after 2 weeks!

 

[PeterSN]

Thanks @redsun . Good unbiased thinking, I'm always guilty of being in the "omg iron is bad" crowd so your comments are refreshing. I am a serial blood donator and have had similar issues. I always automatically think "no way you have tons of iron stored up, impossible that you need iron, iron is in everything etc".

@PeterSN Please don't forget to chime back in after 2 weeks!

Yeah the iron is coming in a week, so I'm going to have to wait a bit first

 

[VitoScaletta]

Something like OSA?

 

[Birdie]

• Q: Don't you need iron supplements if you are anemic?

• In general, no.
  Many doctors think of anemia as necessarily indicating an iron deficiency, but that isn't correct. 100 years ago, it was customary to prescribe arsenic for anemia, and it worked to stimulate the formation of more red blood cells. The fact that arsenic, or iron, or other toxic material stimulates the formation of red blood cells doesn't indicate a "deficiency" of the toxin, but simply indicates that the body responds to a variety of harmful factors by speeding its production of blood cells. Even radiation can have this kind of stimulating effect, because growth is a natural reaction to injury. Between 1920 and 1950, it was common to think of "nutritional growth factors" as being the same as vitamins, but since then it has become common to use known toxins to stimulate the growth of farm animals, and as a result, it has been more difficult to define the essential nutrients. The optimal nutritional intake is now more often considered in terms of resistance to disease, longevity or rate of aging, and even mental ability.
  An excess of iron, by destroying vitamin E and oxidizing the unsaturated fats in red blood cells, can contribute to hemolytic anemia, in which red cells are so fragile that they break down too fast. In aging, red cells break down faster, and are usually produced more slowly, increasing the tendency to become anemic, but additional iron tends to be more dangerous for older people.
  Anemia in women is caused most often by a thyroid deficiency (as discussed in the chapter on thyroid), or by various nutritional deficiencies. Estrogen (even in animals that don't menstruate) causes dilution of the blood, so that it is normal for females to have lower hemoglobin than males. Q. What should I do if my doctor tells me I'm anemic? Is there any situation in which a person needs to take iron supplements?
  Iron deficiency anemia does exist, in laboratory situations and in some cases of chronic bleeding, but I believe it should be the last-suspected cause of anemia, instead of the first. It should be considered as a possible cause of anemia only when very specific blood tests show an abnormally low degree of iron saturation of certain proteins. Usually, physicians consider the amount of hemoglobin or of red cells in the blood as the primary indicator of a need for iron, but that just isn't biologically reasonable.
  If a large amount of blood is lost in surgery, a temporary anemia might be produced, but even then it would be best to know whether the iron stores are really depleted before deciding whether an iron supplement would be reasonable. Liver (or even a water extract of wheat germ) can supply as much iron as would be given as a pill, and is safer.
  

  Iron's Dangers

  Ray Peat

  raypeat.com

 

[PeterSN]

• Q: Don't you need iron supplements if you are anemic?
• In general, no.
  Many doctors think of anemia as necessarily indicating an iron deficiency, but that isn't correct. 100 years ago, it was customary to prescribe arsenic for anemia, and it worked to stimulate the formation of more red blood cells. The fact that arsenic, or iron, or other toxic material stimulates the formation of red blood cells doesn't indicate a "deficiency" of the toxin, but simply indicates that the body responds to a variety of harmful factors by speeding its production of blood cells. Even radiation can have this kind of stimulating effect, because growth is a natural reaction to injury. Between 1920 and 1950, it was common to think of "nutritional growth factors" as being the same as vitamins, but since then it has become common to use known toxins to stimulate the growth of farm animals, and as a result, it has been more difficult to define the essential nutrients. The optimal nutritional intake is now more often considered in terms of resistance to disease, longevity or rate of aging, and even mental ability.
  An excess of iron, by destroying vitamin E and oxidizing the unsaturated fats in red blood cells, can contribute to hemolytic anemia, in which red cells are so fragile that they break down too fast. In aging, red cells break down faster, and are usually produced more slowly, increasing the tendency to become anemic, but additional iron tends to be more dangerous for older people.
  Anemia in women is caused most often by a thyroid deficiency (as discussed in the chapter on thyroid), or by various nutritional deficiencies. Estrogen (even in animals that don't menstruate) causes dilution of the blood, so that it is normal for females to have lower hemoglobin than males. Q. What should I do if my doctor tells me I'm anemic? Is there any situation in which a person needs to take iron supplements?
  Iron deficiency anemia does exist, in laboratory situations and in some cases of chronic bleeding, but I believe it should be the last-suspected cause of anemia, instead of the first. It should be considered as a possible cause of anemia only when very specific blood tests show an abnormally low degree of iron saturation of certain proteins. Usually, physicians consider the amount of hemoglobin or of red cells in the blood as the primary indicator of a need for iron, but that just isn't biologically reasonable.
  If a large amount of blood is lost in surgery, a temporary anemia might be produced, but even then it would be best to know whether the iron stores are really depleted before deciding whether an iron supplement would be reasonable. Liver (or even a water extract of wheat germ) can supply as much iron as would be given as a pill, and is safer.
  

  Iron's Dangers

  Ray Peat

  raypeat.com

then whats causing my low mcv? Candida, low thyroid, damaged liver maybe?